Father is god
son is jesus
WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE HOLY GHOST?:bugeye:

Father is the creator and stuff and jesus is like another god made by god but where does this holy ghost come from?

The father is earth
The son is sir david attenborough
the holy ghost is the universe

Whats the problem?
Oh... You WEREN'T talking about drlounatarianism, my bad.
Well I don't know anything about archaic-made-up religions...

If you ask a Trinitarian they will tell you that God is made up of three "parts" or states.

1.) Him in Heaven. When the Bible refers to God in heaven. The big guy in the sky that created everything and voyeuristically watches us all masturbate in the shower.
This is the "Father".

2.) His physical manifestation on Earth. For him to be here on Earth amongst the people he had to take a physical form. Thsi form was Jesus.
This is the "Son".

3.) His all pervading omniscient spirit. God's thoughts. His "soul" in a sense. The part of him that Trinitarians refer to when they say, "God is everywhere. He is all around us and inside us." When people become posessed by God, when they talk to or hear from God, it is them interracting with God's spirit.
This is the "Holy Ghost" or the "Holy Spirit".

I am still trying to figure out what Non-Trinitarians mean when they refer to the "Holy Ghost". maybe it is the same thing, but God us made up of two parts (the big guy in the sky and his spirit) and Jesus was not the physical manifestation of God on earth, but it was God's son?

Can anyone elaborate further on this?

Originally posted by one_raven
1.) Him in Heaven. When the Bible refers to God in heaven. The big guy in the sky that created everything and voyeuristically watches us all masturbate in the shower.
This is the "Father".

2.) His physical manifestation on Earth. For him to be here on Earth amongst the people he had to take a physical form. Thsi form was Jesus.
This is the "Son".

3.) His all pervading omniscient spirit. God's thoughts. His "soul" in a sense. The part of him that Trinitarians refer to when they say, "God is everywhere. He is all around us and inside us." When people become posessed by God, when they talk to or hear from God, it is them interracting with God's spirit.
This is the "Holy Ghost" or the "Holy Spirit".
:D :eek: Oo, you wack off in the shower too?
Anyway, this trinity thing is just borrowed or ripped off from the Hindu god Brahma and his avatars Vishnu and Shiva.

Anyway, this trinity thing is just borrowed or ripped off from the Hindu god Brahma and his avatars Vishnu and ShivaRiiiight, considering "this trinity thing" originated a few hundred years before Hinduism.

Originally posted by Jerrek
Riiiight, considering "this trinity thing" originated a few hundred years before Hinduism.

How do you figure?

What religion are you referring to?

Hinduism (and the idea of the Generator, Organizer and Destroyer) was around long before Christianity.

Hinduism-
Brahma- The Creator or Generator
Vishnu- The Organizer or Preserver
Shiva- The Destroyer

Christianity-
God- The Creatoor or Generator
Jesus- The Organizer or Preserver
Holy Ghost- The Destroyer

That is just a bit of the parallels between the two religions and Hinduism (as I said) was here first.

Or are you suggesting that Hiduism stole its Gods from another religion altogether?
Which religion would that be?

Let's see if I can not mess this up: The Holy Ghost is a spirit sent here to help us. He manifests himself(though it could be a she for all I know) in various ways, usually a feeling of peace or somethign like that, to tell us we're doing something right. He's seperate from God and Jesus, since they have physical bodies, it would be kind of hard to occupy th esame space as us. More that that, I'm not sure, they don't go into more that I know of.

Originally posted by Salty
Father is god
son is jesus
WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE HOLY GHOST?:bugeye:

Father is the creator and stuff and jesus is like another god made by god but where does this holy ghost come from?
Doesn't everything have an antithesis? Well just as there are evil ghosts, there are holy ghosts.

Originally posted by Salty
Father is god
son is jesus
WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE HOLY GHOST?:bugeye:

Father is the creator and stuff and jesus is like another god made by god but where does this holy ghost come from?
its all bunch of horse poop IMO :D

From what I understand, teh Holy Ghost is the fella that will come down to host that big Arnageddon party, no?

The holy ghost is the sneaky bastard that walks thru your walls to make sure you're not doing anal to your girlfriend or being the buggerer of boys.

Originally posted by one_raven
From what I understand, teh Holy Ghost is the fella that will come down to host that big Arnageddon party, no?
Party? Pass the judgement bowl :p
Armageddon is hosted by Jesus Christ... someone tangible as opposed to the holy ghost.

Originally posted by havalina
Party? Pass the judgement bowl :p
Armageddon is hosted by Jesus Christ... someone tangible as opposed to the holy ghost.

You are going to be waiting a while on the gate honey.....Cause the key is god, not Jesus, or the holly goast......Jesus said himself, if you call my name in place of god, you will not find me responding.

Oh please. They are all One in the same.

And don't call me "honey".

Oh please. They are all One in the same. I'd say no. There are several places in the bible that contradict that, and if your Mormon, there's modern day revelation too.

Originally posted by havalina
And don't call me "honey".
You got it sugar.

Originally posted by Gifted
I'd say no. There are several places in the bible that contradict that, and if your Mormon, there's modern day revelation too.
Edit: I don't want to hijack the thread.... sorry about that.
You got it sugar.
Typical response from someone hubrisly incapable of apologizing. I hope you don't sexually harass women offline also. Oh well. Nothing putting someone on ignore can't fix.
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by havalina
Several places in the bible deny the Trinity?

Typical response from someone hubrisly incapable of apologizing. I hope you don't sexually harass women offline also. Oh well. Nothing putting someone on ignore can't fix.
:rolleyes:

Honey, I'm a woman, a civil engineer, master degree, and government job, a mother of two.

You assume too much.

Assume, you make an ASS of U and ME. Didn't they teach you that in engineering school in Cleveland.

Keep assuming that Jesus is god or son of god like you do, and as I said, you're up for a big surprise....

Now go follow your two most important commandments as a chrisitian as stated by Jesus...Too bad, he didn't say christ or trinity in the commandment...Looks like you don't read your bible enough, or your pastor in the business of screening some passages for you.

Mark 12
29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.



PS. Take it easy on insulting muslims, I have to say, your ignorance caught my attention, that I followed you to this site.

Sensitive, are we? Especially this coming Easter when the Ether Bunny comes your way.

Originally posted by True Wisdom
Sensitive, are we? Especially this coming Easter when the Ether Bunny comes your way.
Was this directed to me?
I can't tell since there are 2 posts after mine that are blank.

As if getting gawked at and talked down to offline isn't enough, I have to endure it online? Not happening.

Originally posted by heflores
Now go follow your two most important commandments as a chrisitian as stated by Jesus...Too bad, he didn't say christ or trinity in the commandment...Looks like you don't read your bible enough, or your pastor in the business of screening some passages for you.

Mark 12
29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

That same Jesus gave us another command, with direct reference to the trinity...

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Originally posted by Joshua's Generation
That same Jesus gave us another command, with direct reference to the trinity...

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

You are right.....the bible is full of contradictions. I have a special method of filtering out the truth though and my method says that the churches are not understanding this verse correctly due to errors in translations.

Father : not real father, spiritual godhead, care giver, ect.
Son: not real son, follower
holly ghost:.......?????

Jesus himself have placed a criteria to distinguish between real prophets talk and phonies......

Deut.18

[18] I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
[19] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
[20] But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
[21] And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
[22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


So I ask you, you is this Prophet that Moses is talking about. If you say Jesus, which is wrong, then be ready to acknowledge that Jesus is just a prophet who is like unto Moses in every way,, who will be born and die normally. That prophet will only speak in the name of god, no other entities, and not of himself.

Originally posted by True Wisdom
Sensitive, are we? Especially this coming Easter when the Ether Bunny comes your way.

Thanks Wisdom, I love easter. Didn't you know that Egyptian invented spring celebrations and easter. I wish I was in Egypt right now burrying the eggs and eating fish and spring onions....I'll have to be satisfifed with the diluted version of celebration in the US.

The holy ghost's name is Casper. He likes to fly around with his magical friends and haunt churches.

Originally posted by Severus666
The holy ghost's name is Casper. He likes to fly around with his magical friends and haunt churches.
and play the pan-flute

Originally posted by heflores
You are right.....the bible is full of contradictions. I have a special method of filtering out the truth though and my method says that the churches are not understanding this verse correctly due to errors in translations.

Father : not real father, spiritual godhead, care giver, ect.
Son: not real son, follower
holly ghost:.......?????

Jesus himself have placed a criteria to distinguish between real prophets talk and phonies......

Deut.18

[18] I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
[19] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
[20] But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
[21] And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
[22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


So I ask you, you is this Prophet that Moses is talking about. If you say Jesus, which is wrong, then be ready to acknowledge that Jesus is just a prophet who is like unto Moses in every way,, who will be born and die normally. That prophet will only speak in the name of god, no other entities, and not of himself.

You're obviously a muslim, correct?

And your ignorance of christian theology is apparent.

Yes, this is that Prophet of which Moses spake.

And your premature conclusions are wrong.

Originally posted by Joshua's Generation

1- You're obviously a muslim, correct?
2- And your ignorance of christian theology is apparent.
3- Yes, this is that Prophet of which Moses spake.
4- And your premature conclusions are wrong.

1- A submitter to god...indeed I'm or I hope I'm viewed that way by my and your ONE creator and god.
2- blank insult without elaboration. Of course if you care say ignorance of the modern corrupt christian movement, then please count me in and I'd rather stay in the darkness.
3- WHO??? Jesus or Prophet Muhammed. If it's Jesus, then Jesus is a prophet only just like Moses....Not a god or son of god like the modern christians blaphsem.
4- Care to elaborate....Or you already doing the chicken dance in fear of me.

The soul!!

We are given a body which gives us some kind of existence, a mind which is capable of reason and logic (which in my opinion can help us to find truth) and a soul.

It is my opinion that stimulation of the body gives rise to, or access to, the soul. The soul, and mind for that matter, is numb from birth, but when the body becomes stimulated in one way or another then the soul becomes aware of it's connection to this being. These stimulations become known as it's boundaries and limits, i.e. it is aware that it is a being withing a body and has no choice but to live out it's existence within this body.

All three are very relevant though!

Father, Son and Holy spirit: Mind, Body and Soul!!!

The body, and I'm aware of it's function, the mind and you say for reasoning, so why are we given a soul as you say?

THe muslims think the purpose of the soul is for recording our doings for judgement day...What's the Christian insight on that. From your post above, you seem to imply that within each and every one of us, there is an element that is father, son, and holly spirit. So which element of us is the body, our future sons and daughters

4- Care to elaborate....Or you already doing the chicken dance in fear of me.

I'm sorry, it's just your excessive sarcasm really turns me off to seriously trying to discuss with you. :o

2- blank insult without elaboration. Of course if you care say ignorance of the modern corrupt christian movement, then please count me in and I'd rather stay in the darkness.

Not an insult. A fact. I admit to being ignorant of the Muslim religion, and I am not insulted.

How it can be called a religion of peace, but yet it calls for it's followers to persecute and/or kill unbelievers?..

You got me. . :m:

1- A submitter to god...indeed I'm or I hope I'm viewed that way by my and your ONE creator and god.

My God is Elohim, YHWH, the great I AM. :bugeye:

Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 11:7
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Genesis 11:8
So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

Genesis 11:9
Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

John 8:57
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 8:59
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

3- WHO??? Jesus or Prophet Muhammed. If it's Jesus, then Jesus is a prophet only just like Moses....Not a god or son of god like the modern christians blaphsem.

Jesus.

Was Jesus' life a parallel to Moses? Yes, so much so that no other person in history came close to fulfilling this prophecy. In the last verses of Deuteronomy, writing after the death of Joshua, tells us that even Joshua missed the mark: "There has not arisen in Israel a prophet like Moses whom the Lord know face to face" (34:10).

In a complete analysis of the life of Moses and Jesus of Nazareth, at least fifty elements and events are parallel in both lives. Many of these were beyond the ability of any human control. Consider the roles which Moses and Jesus both played: prophet, priest, lawgiver, teacher, leader of men. Both taught new truth from God and confirmed their teaching with miracles. Both spent their early years in Egypt, miraculously protected from those who sought their lives. Moses' family initially did not accept his role, but later his brother, Aaron, and sister, Miriam, helped him. Jesus' mother, brothers and sisters initially failed to follow Jesus, but later his brother James became the leader in the church in Jerusalem.

Each was considered the wisest man in his day. Both confronted demonic powers and successfully subdued them. As Moses appointed seventy rulers over Israel, Jesus anointed seventy disciples to teach the nations. Moses sent twelve spies to explore Canaan, Jesus sent twelve apostles to reach the world. The Bible does not state that either one experienced sickness. Neither of their bodies remained in a tomb. Both fasted for forty days and faced spiritual crises on mountain tops. As Moses stretched his hand over the Red Sea to command it, Jesus rebuked the Sea of Galilee and quieted the waves. Both of their faces shone with the glory of heaven - Moses on Mount Sinai and Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration.

While Moses rescued Israel from the dead religion of pagan Egypt, Jesus rescued Israel from the dead letter of the law of tradition. Moses and Christ both cured lepers and proved their authority through the miracles they performed before many witnesses. As Moses conquered the great enemy of Israel, the Amalekites, with his upraised arms, Jesus conquered our great enemy sin and death by His upraised arms on the cross. Moses lifted up the brazen serpent in the wilderness to heal his people; Jesus was lifted up on the cross to heal all believers from their sin.

The people were ungrateful and rebelled against the leadership of both men. The generations that rebelled against them died in their lack of faith - one in the wilderness and one in the siege of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Moses and Jesus both died on a hill. Moses promised that another Prophet would come; Jesus promised the Church that His Father would send them another "Comforter," the Holy Spirit.

In the month Nisan, on the fourteenth day, which was the Feast of the Passover, both Moses and Jesus freed all who would trust them. On the seventeenth day, the Feast of Firstfruits, Moses brought about the resurrection of the children of Israel as they passed through the Red Sea; on the anniversary of that day Jesus became the Firstfruits of resurrection as He arose from the dead. Fifty days later, on the Feast of Pentecost, God delivered the great gift to Israel and nations through the giving of Torah, the Law. Fifty days after his resurrection, God gave the Church the great gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The evidence is quite compelling that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah, the prophet like Moses. Why, then, has Israel rejected her Messiah? Link (http://www.direct.ca/trinity/moses.html)

How can Jesus and Moses be parallel:

Let's compare these issues:

Birth: Jesus born of a virgin mother, Moses is a normal birth

Location: Moses born in Egypt where in the beginning he was respected, then he was rejected, then he came back powerfull and was victarious
Jesus life pattern does not follow that.

Life: Moses was accepted by his people as a prophet of god...Jesus was not accepted by his people as a prophet of god...only a few deciples.

Marriage: Moses married normally and had kids. Jesus never married or had kids.

Literature: Moses gave his people the tablets, that was destroyed later. Jesus never gave during his life any religious books.

Death: Moses lived normally till he was very old and died normal death. Jesus had a short life and a crucifiction.

So you have not proofed yet that this prophet that Moses spoke of is Jesus. You wrote a lot, but said very little.

Jesus never married or had kids. This cannot be known! It is my understanding that there is no real evidence of Jesus, there is only the writings of people in certain areas as he passed through so tracking him and placing these writings in order to follow Jesus' life is hard, but what was done with the Bible. It is in this was that we can learn about Jesus' word and his message.

My knowledge of the Bible is nowhere near as good as I'd like it to be so forgive me if my understanding is off target.

Doesn't the old document what will happen and predict the coming of a leader and the new testament documents Jesus' life? The two were then put together and called the Bible. This is where a lot of the different religions branch off, the Christians accept that Jesus was the leader that was written about in the old testament and then put together the new testament to follow this leader, and slapped the whole book together as the Bible, while others disagree.

Charles,
If Jesus had any offspring or wife, believe me we would have heard of it. The jews and the Romans would have made sure to include them in the crucificion to make sure that they're truly getting rid of this seed. We would have also seen something in the bible...Jesus would have talked about his personal life...if it included a wife and kids.

Jesus never married or had any kids..

Well I'm not going to accept it until I've read more of the Bible.The jews and the Romans would have made sure to include them in the crucificion... Is there a written record of the crucifixion??

Had anyone seen it written in the old testament about crucifixion (which incidently was not the 't' style cross but more of an actual, 'x', cross)? This is interesting, though I haven't seen it with my own eyes, but if it is true, well crucifixion hadn't even been invented/thought of then.

Charles,
believe it or not, your doubt of the crucifiction and answer to this is very close to the Koran. I'm impressed. Note that Jesus is Isa in arabic. The followers of the book are the early christians.

[4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
[4.159] And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them.

Note that Jesus is Isa in arabic I know :) [4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. So they are saying that the Romans did not crucify the true messiah?? Maybe this is how Jesus died for us, he distracted attention from the true messiah, or maybe this is just twisted thinking merely to keep any 'faith'. It is something to think about though. Is that quote from the Quaran??

Yes it is from the koran. On the page below. go to simple search and enter Isa and it will reveal to you all verses with Isa in them. You can also do a boolean search with more than one word.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/

also, here's the bible if you're interested in doing quick searches.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/kjv/


Muslim believe that Jesus didn't die on the cross. We are also told that all christians have to believe in him as a prophet of god who didn't get crucified before his final death, which means that he didn't die till today..

Thanks for the links Heflores.

What do you mean he didn't die till today though??

I have always been puzzeled by the Quranic verses concerning Jesus.


[4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
[4.159] And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Isa) shall be a witness against them.


First it says, he was not crucified, and that god made people feel confused about the real outcome of that day. Then god say that all christians must get the truth straight before jesus die. I concluded that jesus must not have died then, because his death implies that the christians have all received the truth, maybe Jesus was automatically lifted to god somehow without dying in the body or even travelling our very eath undercover....I have no idea.