I'm in school to become a cop, and I remember a theoretical question that one of my professors asked the class a few semesters back. It went as follows....

Suppose that for whatever reason, your clearing a grocery store during the middle of the night. After you clear the store, you and your partner are headed out. On the way out, your partner grabs a candy bar and eats it. What do you do?

He did not want an answer, but rather wanted us to ask ourselves what we would do. I've already figured out what I would do, but I'd like to know what you would do.

-Kooter

The law does not deal with trivia and neither do I. If it were my store I'd let it be known that you can have a candy bar but you can't walk out with a case of beer.

i would tell him that he either pay for it when he gets his check
or i would inform management

in either case i would distance myself from him

On the way out, your partner grabs a candy bar and eats it. What do you do?

I grab two candybars and eat them, and stuff a few in my pockets.

Well, it's theft, isn't it? Aren't you/he taking something that does NOT belong to you and without any permission as evidenced by the fact that the candybar is for sale.

What bothers me so much is how people can continually dismiss the theft of some item like that without giving it much thought .....because if YOU can forgive a candybar, why can't someone else forgive, say, a case of beer? Or two cases of beer?

Baron Max

I grab two candybars and eat them, and stuff a few in my pockets.

Well, that's okay for YOU, Spurious, because your nation provides everything and anything that you need or want anyway! :)

Baron Max

Well, that candy bar pays for the next free coffee.

- N

I think I'd make a point of paying for it for him/her... .the FIRST time... and letting him/her know I hoped there wouldn't be a second.

I think I'd make a point of paying for it for him/her... .the FIRST time... and letting him/her know I hoped there wouldn't be a second.

How would you pay for it? You can't just leave the money on the counter because then when they show up there would be extra money laying around. They wouldn't know what to do with it and it would probably raise some questions.

You can't go in the next day and pay for it cuz they would know that you are taking stuff.

-Kooter

It's a difficult situation. What to do with a corrupt police officer?
Is there an internal disciplinary code or set of rules one could turn to?

Ask Frank Scerpico (http://imdb.com/title/tt0070666/) what to do.

It's a difficult situation. What to do with a corrupt police officer?

I don't think it's a difficult situation at all ...not in the least! It was petty theft and there's simply no way around that issue ...he took/stole something that didn't belong to him.

Is there an internal disciplinary code or set of rules one could turn to?

Of course there is ...and that should be the very first stop. As it's petty theft, I'm sure that the authorities would simply make him go back, admit it and pay for it. But that action should go on his record ...he's a thief!

Look at it this way: If we forgive that one officer, then isn't that saying that all of the thousands of police officers in the country can take a candy bar from a store any time they want to???? How can you let the ONE officer off the hook, while expecting all of the others not to do the same things?

Baron Max

On the way out, your partner grabs a candy bar and eats it. What do you do?

-Kooter

First I would ask if my partner knows the person who owns the store and find out if he had been told in the past that he could help himself to a small snack. Many store owners do give cops freebies just because they appreciate the job they do.

If no such relationship existed, I would say to my partner that the man who owns the store is trying to make an honest living and while small in its action, it all adds up in the end. Then I would drop the issue.

I would tell him to pay for it, or I will report him.

By him stealing the candy bar in front of me, he has involved me in this crime.

You can't go in the next day and pay for it cuz they would know that you are taking stuff.

-KooterYes, you can go back the next day and pay for it.

Well, it's theft, isn't it? Aren't you/he taking something that does NOT belong to you and without any permission as evidenced by the fact that the candybar is for sale.

What bothers me so much is how people can continually dismiss the theft of some item like that without giving it much thought .....because if YOU can forgive a candybar, why can't someone else forgive, say, a case of beer? Or two cases of beer?

Baron Max

A case of beer is also ok, unless it is from a small neighbourhood grocery store. Publix or so is fine.

A case of beer is also ok, unless it is from a small neighbourhood grocery store. Publix or so is fine.
Negro thoughts.

Better a negro than a corporate whore.

Better a negro than a corporate whore.


How so? Please explain.

It would also be nice to hear your definition of "corporate whore". Because as you've used it, you seem to be saying/implying that only white people can be "corporate whores". Surely ye're not saying that, are you?

Baron Max

I'm surely not implying that every white man is a corporate whore, otherwise I would be one.

So your comment "Better a negro than a corporate whore" means ....what???? That there are no negros who are or can be corporate whores?

Baron Max

You are surely not implying that I should take any comment of the resident racist (JB) seriously, and moreover, you are surely not taking any of my answers to the resident racist seriously?

Or are you that keen on wasting your time?

Spurious, I'm sorry ..I apologize. I've been taking all of your posts seriously. So I guess now I'm either going to have to have you tell me which are serious and which are not, or else.....? Hmm, what the fuck can I do on any of your future posts? ...the ones that agree with me, I take seriously; and the ones that disagree, I just assume that ye're joking?

Baron Max

Oh dear baron,

why did you not question the post by JB suggesting I might be a negro...why oh why? Surely you knew unquestionably that my legs are like two milk bottles and my cranial capacity just average. Who else could I be but white? But yet you doubt your fellow being of colour and not the motives behind the aggrevating assault on my colour coding. You know dam well that I really want to be a negro, but luck was against me. My mother a red head, my father half arian. Oh, why was our Lord so cruel.
But let me assure you that I will not hold it against you if you take all my posts as a joke. I gladly return the favour

Your humble white servant,

Spuriousmonkey

ps
I would still take a case of beer if I could get away with it, despite being white.

I'd leave some cash on the counter with a note saying that it's for such-and-such candy bar. It's not about whether the candy bar brings much profit, it's about honesty.

Would you honestly leave a note at the counter of walmart for a candybar?

Negro thoughts.

What would I do?

I would grab the candy bar from my partner and freeze it. I would seek out this J.B. fellow by tracking his IP to his provider. As a cop, I would order the provider to give me J.B's personal information. I would bring the frozen candy bar with me to J.B's place of residence. At this point I would handcuff his sub-moron level, racist ass to the front porch railing, and shove the frozen candy bar deep into his colon (using an appropriate tamping rod of course).

Big fun!

Would you honestly leave a note at the counter of walmart for a candybar?

I don't go to walmart, but if I ever did I would.

There was only one instance when I wanted to steal at a store. I needed two crayons of particular color for a class, and the box with about eight crayons cost some sublime price. I didn't have the required ammount on me at the time. The boxes of crayons weren't sealed. Fortunately, I looked up and saw crayons of the same brand sold individually.

I would still take a case of beer if I could get away with it, ...

Why does that bother me so much? I just can't grasp the concept of theft being so acceptable to y'all? I mean, if you owned something, do you think that others should just take it whenever they want it? How can anyone consider that as "civilized" ...in any form of social interaction?

Hell, no, wait ....that's not even considered appropriate action in the lowest form of animal behavior. How can y'all accept it so readily? I just simply don't understand. Is this what civilized society is going to be in a few generations? ...people stealing whatever they want, and it not be "wrong"?

Baron Max

I do appreciate the concept of theft. That is why I wouldn't have any qualms stealing from a big company.

Hell, no, wait ....that's not even considered appropriate action in the lowest form of animal behavior. How can y'all accept it so readily? I just simply don't understand. Is this what civilized society is going to be in a few generations? ...people stealing whatever they want, and it not be "wrong"?

Baron Max
i think spurious is punching your buttons baron

I am not really.

1. If a company has a history of fucking people over stealing is not only a right, it is a duty
2. it is not worth stealing when there is a chance getting caught.
3. Petty crime doesn't pay.

I do appreciate the concept of theft. That is why I wouldn't have any qualms stealing from a big company.

How big is big? And who decides what's big? And if we can all make that decision, then you must also think that it's okay for me to steal from a "Mom & Pop" store ....because I think they're "big"? And you'd support my definition of big?

Baron Max

1. If a company has a history of fucking people over stealing is not only a right, it is a duty.

So two wrongs make things all right with the world? So why have laws? Why not just allow a vigilante approach to all social situations?

2. it is not worth stealing when there is a chance getting caught.

Who makes that decision? And more to the point, what happens if the thief decides it's okay, but THEN gets caught? Should we just let him go with penalty? ...because he didn't think he'd be caught? Maybe we should apologize to him for catching him stealiing?

3. Petty crime doesn't pay.

No, that should be "Petty crime doesn't pay too much." But if each person on the planet stole one candy bar, how much money do you suppose that would amount to? millions? billions? So you see, even petty crime can amount to loses in the range of "huge".

Baron Max

How big is big? And who decides what's big? And if we can all make that decision, then you must also think that it's okay for me to steal from a "Mom & Pop" store ....because I think they're "big"? And you'd support my definition of big?

Baron Max

It's up to you to make decisions like that.

It's up to you to make decisions like that.

So ye're advocating that the criminal be the one to make the decision, and then the rest of us have to abide by it and let him go free? Interesting concept, Spurious.

Baron Max

So two wrongs make things all right with the world? So why have laws? Why not just allow a vigilante approach to all social situations?

Well, dear baron. I don't see you get all excited about the US bombing the shit out of innocent civilians, but you do get excited about stealing a candybar from walmart.





Who makes that decision? And more to the point, what happens if the thief decides it's okay, but THEN gets caught? Should we just let him go with penalty? ...because he didn't think he'd be caught? Maybe we should apologize to him for catching him stealiing?
He (or she) should definitely go through what ever the legal system requires.



No, that should be "Petty crime doesn't pay too much." But if each person on the planet stole one candy bar, how much money do you suppose that would amount to? millions? billions? So you see, even petty crime can amount to loses in the range of "huge".

The point being that you should never indulge in petty crime. In the current system petty crime is punished and big crime is rewarded. Hence you technically are an idiot if you indulge in petty crime.

So ye're advocating that the criminal be the one to make the decision, and then the rest of us have to abide by it and let him go free? Interesting concept, Spurious.

Baron Max

No, what I was trying to say that it is your responsibility to make the decision to steal a candybar. Not mine. You can't hold me responsible for your actions or your thoughts.

No, what I was trying to say that it is your responsibility to make the decision to steal a candybar. Not mine. You can't hold me responsible for your actions or your thoughts.
But isn't it the job of the police to help protect us from people making such illegal decisions?

The officer who does not intervene in the theft in some way is complicit in the theft and guilty, at the very least, of dereliction of duty.

I'm not an officer of the law. I will not stop my partner taking a candy bar.

But isn't it the job of the police to help protect us from people making such illegal decisions?

It certainly is and hence I wouldn't do it if there is a risk to be caught. I certainly wouldn't do it if Baron Max was my partner because I know he would jump at the opportunity to rat my ass out. I on the other hand wouldn't do that to someone who I would call my partner. I assume we were in the store for a legal purpose. A candybar isn't more important than a human being.

Oh dear baron,

why did you not question the post by JB suggesting I might be a negro...why oh why? Surely you knew unquestionably that my legs are like two milk bottles and my cranial capacity just average. Who else could I be but white? But yet you doubt your fellow being of colour and not the motives behind the aggrevating assault on my colour coding. You know dam well that I really want to be a negro, but luck was against me. My mother a red head, my father half arian. Oh, why was our Lord so cruel.
But let me assure you that I will not hold it against you if you take all my posts as a joke. I gladly return the favour

Your humble white servant,

Spuriousmonkey

ps
I would still take a case of beer if I could get away with it, despite being white.I said "Negro thoughts" not Negro looks.

What would I do?

I would grab the candy bar from my partner and freeze it. I would seek out this J.B. fellow by tracking his IP to his provider. As a cop, I would order the provider to give me J.B's personal information. I would bring the frozen candy bar with me to J.B's place of residence. At this point I would handcuff his sub-moron level, racist ass to the front porch railing, and shove the frozen candy bar deep into his colon (using an appropriate tamping rod of course).

Big fun!
Homosexual thoughts.

My thing with stealing from a store is that the store workers may get into trouble. Candy might not be anything significant, but if you're stealing something costly there's a good chance the store workers will get into trouble.

I said "Negro thoughts" not Negro looks.

'putrid slime thoughts'

If your willing to stand by and do nothing as a officer of the law commits a theft in front of you.

Then you are clearly a weak link in the human race.

I fail to see the 'clearly' part.

I fail to see the 'clearly' part.Yes you would "fail to see the 'clearly' part".

That is because you are clearly "a weak link in the human race".

Most cops are somewhat corrupt already. If I reported my fellow cop, they would all come down on me and make my life miserable, so no, I wouldn't report it. Anyway, there are worse crimes occurring out there, stealing a candybar is really trivial, unless it was a child who did it. In that case, you have to nip such impulses in the bud, and give the kid a scare.

Many people do give cops freebies to gain favor. Probably the cop has a relationship with the store owner (or blackmailing them) so it's understood he can take a candybar here and there.

Yes you would "fail to see the 'clearly' part".

That is because you are clearly "a weak link in the human race".

I see you don't know yourself what clearly is since you clearly can't explain it.

Many people do give cops freebies to gain favor. Probably the cop has a relationship with the store owner (or blackmailing them) so it's understood he can take a candybar here and there.

No. Although it's true that many people give cops freebies, the vast majority of the time it's not for the reasons you state. It's not because they have a relationship with the store owner or because they are being blackmailed.

The store owners view it as an opportunity to gain some extra security. Think about it. Most of the places that cops get freebies are C-stores, simply because those are the places that are open during the wee hours of the morning.

The store owner or all night resturant gives cops free coffee, pop, and or discount on other items. Cops talk and word gets around that the Kwik Trip down the street provides free pop and coffee or the Perkins gives a 10% discount. That's where the cop is going to go to take thier breaks and such.

You think robbers are real keen on the idea of robbing a C-store or resturant that has 3 or 4 cops in it? It's a cheap price for the C-store owner to pay for some extra security, as well as letting the officers know that they are appreciated.

This is not blackmail because no one is making the owners provide these freebies. And its not like the cops will purposely respond slower to anything at that store if they didn't get the freebies. It's just a way to reduce the chances of being robbed.

Any questions?

-Kooter

you implied in your op that the store was closed.

in your last post you implied that the store is open
i can see where you are coming from, but it is assumed that the "freebies"
are given during store hours

that doesn't mean you can go into the store when it is closed and help yourself.

Leo....good point

My original post was when the store was closed. Yes.

The post I was replying to when I said it's not blackmail, I was talking about when the stores were open. I thought Spidergoat was referring to stores that are open. If he wasn't, then oops!

Any other questions?

-Kooter

The chance to get extra security IS the kind of relationship I was talking about. Of course, the cops can't do this in broad daylight, that would be bad PR, I was thinking of after hours.

LOL, it's OKAY to steal from a large corporation, because we all know that laws regarding theft don't apply to them, right?

Anyone who thinks that theft is justified in this instance needs to be weeded out of society. "It's only a candy bar" is demented thinking, and ignores that fact that perhaps lots of people think that way. Instead of one candy bar going missing, lots do. As a result, stores need to increase their prices to make up for their losses due to shoplifting.

Why aren't you weeding out large corporations?

Why aren't you weeding out large corporations?

Why aren't you? In fact, why do you actively support them by buying their products?

I'm not. I'm taking candy bars for free remember.

Lets see if I got it right:
1] Both are officers with a sticker on their foreheads that reads integrity.
2] One officer decides to compromise the other officers integrity, so that the sticker on their foreheads reads "integrity sometimes" or "integrity when I feel like it"
3] The corrupting officer obviously thinks very little about his partners desire to stay in the job.

Solution:
The compromised partner needs to discuss the issue with his superior immediately or as soon as reasonably possible so as to pass the buck of decision making onto that superior.....thus disolving himself of any further responsibility.

There is no doubt that the problem is not so much with the corrupt action of the perp' but how that other officer protects himself from such corruption and being tainted with the same brush by default of proximity.
The corrupting officer is not acting in the best interests of himself or the partner thus I would ask for another partner citing reasons due to his lack of concern as a partner for his partners well being. In other words if you can't trust your partner get another one.

I'm not. I'm taking candy bars for free remember.

I'm not talking about the candy bars, idiot. I'm talking about numerous other things you've purchased from large corporations, including your PC. Do you use Windows? What about Microsoft Word? Who do you pay your phone bills to? What brand of food do you buy?

You have to pick your battles. So far the law is on the side of the big criminals.

I use windows (thinking about linux).

I use openoffice and notetab.

I don't have a phone (the phone company was bitching when I wanted to have a phone line installed and therefore I told them to fuck off ).

brand of food:I like home cooked meals.

1 out of 4. Shoot me.

spurious:

You have to pick your battles. So far the law is on the side of the big criminals.

Agreed. Although I don't think Communism is the answer, I definitely sympathize with the Reds under the bed. The common working man is screwed, while the managers and stock holders collect for his hard work. Nevertheless, that doesn't justify theft. The working man loses out when idiots engage in petty theft, because...

1. The corporations raise their prices.

2. The corporations lower their wages.


I use windows (thinking about linux).

Microsoft is a huge corporation. You're allowing them to operate, and abuse the working class. You're furthering the cause of capitalism. Sucks to be you. You support stealing candy bars to hurt huge corporations, but it doesn't cross your mind to stop actively sponsoring them by buying their products? Hmmm.


I use openoffice and notetab.

I'm not aware of those products. However, I'm willing to bet that they are also corporations, whose managers and stock holders make money on the backs of small time programmers.


brand of food:I like home cooked meals.

But you still buy specific brands of food to cook. What company produces the raw meat you purchase? What about the bread? And the cheese? More often than not, they come from huge corporations, not small businesses and bakeries.

But you still buy specific brands of food to cook. What company produces the raw meat you purchase? What about the bread? And the cheese? More often than not, they come from huge corporations, not small businesses and bakeries.

I usually go to 'Wards' which has mostly produce and meat from local farmers and manufacturers. Slightly more expensive though than the big brand stuff.

Agreed. Although I don't think Communism is the answer, I definitely sympathize with the Reds under the bed. The common working man is screwed, while the managers and stock holders collect for his hard work. Nevertheless, that doesn't justify theft. The working man loses out when idiots engage in petty theft, because...

1. The corporations raise their prices.

2. The corporations lower their wages.

The answer is the level the playing field. Give the average man more rights and take away the 'criminal' rights of big companies. But we all know that isn't going to happen because the big companies have the money to maintain the current situation. And realistically the current situation is more and more sliding towards them in light of globalization and destruction of social welfare systems all over the world in the name of economic growth.

The big company's, were at one time small company's.

And?

http://www.riotvideo.com/Cops_Looting_New_Orleans_Walmart_after_Katrina.htm l

and?

Suppose that for whatever reason, your clearing a grocery store during the middle of the night. After you clear the store, you and your partner are headed out. On the way out, your partner grabs a candy bar and eats it. What do you do?
Grab and eat one m'self. Not like anyone can do anything about it. We'd above the law, because we'd be the law.

One of two possible scenarios, both of which apply to my best interests:

1. If I knew that the security cameras were shut off, and that we were all alone, and that the owner of the store I knew beyond a doubt would not count the stock so acutely the next morning, I'd help myself to a snack.

2. But considering any of the above were there, I'd do the "right" thing, just so I can keep people's trust--regardless of what my true intentions were.