http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3896009.stm



Othedap can you shed some light? ;)

2 guys allegedly violated some passport laws.... they tried to get fake passports or something

all of a sudden New Zealand's pro-'palestinian' PM claims they're Mossad agents

2 guys allegedly violated some passport laws.... they tried to get fake passports or something

all of a sudden New Zealand's pro-'palestinian' PM claims they're Mossad agents


Hmm... do you seriously think that there is a connection between pro palestine PM and they might have made up that story? I don't even know if they were pro palestine.

New Zealand gives hundreds of thousands of dollars annually to the UN body that makes sure Arafat's pockets are never empty

the New Zealand PM is often vocally critical of Israel, its government, its policies, etc.

2 real Mossad agents were caught using Canadian passports in 1997... maybe New Zealand's PM got mad at the possibility...

Awfully suspicious I should say, since New Zealand is obviously a threat to the sovereignty of Israel (note sarcasm), maybe Mossad is like a typical Zionist organization, paranoid beyond the shits about nothing.

Didnt know that NZ was pro-Palestine. Why does NZ care about Palestine-Israel conflict anyway?

They were scouting for the new Zion. Must have seen The Lord of the Rings, and took a liking to Hobbiton.

maybe PM Clarke is wearing The Ring?
i don't know why she's pro "palestinians"... to score points with EU? maybe she sees in the 'palestinians' something special? maybe she wants cheap oil and good relations with terrorist countries?
maybe she's afraid of importing 'palestinian' terror? who the fuck knows...
maybe she just hates Israel...

i think there's something personal about this
if they really were Mossad agents then this thing would be kept secret... that's how diplomacy works... but she seems to have some personal vendetta in this case.
at least that's been my impression all along since the first couple of articles i read about this.. weeks ago..

press leaks... vocal, nasty, repeated public condemnations... toughdiplomatic sanctions... man, that's f*cking harsh
they actually said that Israel's President "is not welcome" on his scheduled visit

maybe it's for a show so everyone in the 'palestinian' / Arab / Muslim camp can clap?

Check the Xinhuanet (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-07/16/content_1604911.htm) spin.

See also, Israel National News (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=65756).

maybe it's for a show so everyone in the 'palestinian' / Arab / Muslim camp can clap?

your post reminds of a term *rolling on fire* or something like that... :D :p

what happend to Mossad, they use to be the most lethal force on earth, now they can't even get into a country without fucking up, that is of course if this is true.

2 guys allegedly violated some passport laws.... they tried to get fake passports or something

Allegedly? They pleaded guilty and were convicted.


the New Zealand PM is often vocally critical of Israel, its government, its policies, etc.

Yes, like the rest of the civilized world she condemns the bulldozing of palestinian homes, extra-judical assasinations by missile in crowded streets etc. She also speaks out against Palestinian terrorism. She isn't pro-palestine, she is merely pro-peace.


i don't know why she's pro "palestinians"... to score points with EU? maybe she sees in the 'palestinians' something special? maybe she wants cheap oil and good relations with terrorist countries?
maybe she's afraid of importing 'palestinian' terror? who the fuck knows...
maybe she just hates Israel...


Maybe she's a closet nazi. Are you really that brainwashed? Perhaps she doesn't like the bad things Israel does. Maybe she takes exception to covert operatives entering her country to commit fraud. Strange thing, but here in the Antipodes we tend to frown upon that..

New Zealand gives hundreds of thousands of dollars annually to the UN body that makes sure Arafat's pockets are never empty

You mean UNRWA? Damn New Zealand. Trying to contribute to refugee education and social services. Practically terrorism that is. Now where did these refugees come from, again?

if they really were Mossad agents then this thing would be kept secret... that's how diplomacy works... but she seems to have some personal vendetta in this case.

Depends what Israel's response was. If they played silly buggers and offered no explanation or apology, then truth or consequences. And no, that isn't how diplomacy works. Generally, spies are paraded to cause their nation embarassment in return for sending covert operatives into their country.


all of a sudden New Zealand's pro-'palestinian' PM claims they're Mossad agents

They work for some Israeli agency, certainly. The Israeli government's response has been absolute silence: they were asked for an explanation and received none. They did not deny, they did not protest. They did, however, ask the New Zealand government to keep the matter quiet and handle it diplomatically.

And it appears the Mossad doesn't like this
http://www.virtualjerusalem.com/news/worldjewry/?disp_feature=kE8Zxa.var
this article suggests that Mossad has started harassing New Zealand NGOs in response.

I still don't see any proof these are Mossad.

Can’t you Israel haters see the threat the New Zealand poses to Israel, I mean consider New Zealand has millions of sheep, just think about the consequences of those babies running into Israel! I shudder to think of the consequences! Obviously I don’t see anyone here is buying Oth’s side of the story, it’s too hyperbolic, and emotional. What I can say is that although it has yet to be verified that these men are Mossad, the point is if they weren’t why would they have these illegal New Zealand passports? Mossad is not stupid, they want to get Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and other respected nations passports so they can do their dirty work. No one respects Israel, and Mossad knows it, so there’s nothing better then a get Canadian, Australian, New Zealander passport, it’s like diplomatic gold.

a recent interview (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1089602329248) with former head of Mossad

an opinion piece (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1089955403113&p=1078397702269) about the Mossad

when you're weak make the enemy think you're strong. when you're strong make the enemy think you're weak.
the Israeli government and agents are experts at manipulating liberal media (often useful idiots), releasing statements to confuse the Ayatollah and Assad

first they created this myth of the Mossad that got the Arabs so damn paranoid they see Mossad everywhere, then, when Mossad is successful and strong they make it appear weak so the enemy will relax its guard

But is it enough to stop these WMD? (http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/graphics/bigh4.jpg)

somebody was saying the Mossad has lost its edge (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1090208241696)?

:D

while Nasrallah and his peeps are busy fabricating stories about "captured Mossad agents (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6F5F21D9-66E2-45B2-82DA-01655FC8A29C.htm)", (they see them everywhere (http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/04_Terror/040518.Israel.foils.html)) the real ones are offing his terrorist buddies one by one :D

Can’t you Israel haters see the threat the New Zealand poses to Israel, I mean consider New Zealand has millions of sheep, just think about the consequences of those babies running into Israel! I shudder to think of the consequences! Obviously I don’t see anyone here is buying Oth’s side of the story, it’s too hyperbolic, and emotional. What I can say is that although it has yet to be verified that these men are Mossad, the point is if they weren’t why would they have these illegal New Zealand passports? Mossad is not stupid, they want to get Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and other respected nations passports so they can do their dirty work. No one respects Israel, and Mossad knows it, so there’s nothing better then a get Canadian, Australian, New Zealander passport, it’s like diplomatic gold.

More likely than not they're Russian Jews up to their eyeballs in the Mob. Notice how they got lighter sentences for pleading guilty and agreeing to donate $32,000 to a cerebral palsy charity. Mossad agents don't carry that cash around. Israel would let its agents sit in jail rather than pay that out. They're working for the Russian Jewish Mob. It's very big in Israel.

Hey...that is a possiblity. But I still don't see why New Zealand be the place to do that for the Russian Jewish mob. Why Illegal passports? Chances are still that it was a Mossad operation.

I don’t get this why didn’t Mossad make counterfeit passports?

Why would they? Alot easier just to get them from the government. Unless you have a Canadian involved that tries to pass themself off over the phone as New Zealander who has never left the country. Who happens to be mute.

Interestingly one of the agents is a surveilance expert. And the SIS were tipped off by the Aussies, who were investigating an Israeli spy ring

whether these are manipulations of the press by the NZ gov't or truth, doesn't matter.

they did not have to make this thing a big public diplomatic incident with such forceful viciousness and venom.

there is clearly something personal here.

otheadp


they did not have to make this thing a big public diplomatic incident with such forceful viciousness and venom.

Ermm Othe, this is a big diplomatic incident, and quite rightly so. And can you blame the New Zealanders for reacting the way they did? How would you feel if for example, an agent from one of your neighbours was able to change their name and their identity to get an Isreali passport for reasons that are obvious? The same applies here.

Why would two Mossad agents want a passport from a country such as New Zealand? Because they know that New Zealand has kept itself out of the idiotic war in Iraq for reasons that have always been clear to the sane members of the world's society. The New Zealand Government is pro peace, thereby ensuring that its passports and its citizens will not be examined too closely in countries that Isreali passport holders, for example, would be scrutinised. The silence of the Isreali government speaks volumes in this issue. I would hazard a guess that embarrassment has something to do with it because the world has seen that the Mossad agents are not as smart as they thought they were and if a small country such as New Zealand can pick them out, then embarrassment indeed.

the real ones are offing his terrorist buddies one by one
The real ones probably also have passports from countries such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand. And that would be why they would want a New Zealand passport. Keep their own government out of the fray while insinuating that a New Zealand citizen has committed the act, thereby ensuring that Isreal remains somewhat safe (for lack of a better term) from any retaliation and instead letting New Zealand take the blame and face the risk and dangers of retaliation. Very cowardly and very obvious.

if they really were Mossad agents then this thing would be kept secret... that's how diplomacy works... but she seems to have some personal vendetta in this case.

Why should it be kept secret? And why shouldn't she be angry? Would the Isreali Government keep it secret if an Arab country for example did it to them? Somehow I doubt it. The two idiots confessed and after a long wait for some form of explanation from the Isreali Government and I believe the wait continues, the information was made public. Had the Isreali Government handled it the way it should have been handled, the information would never have been made public. Diplomacy involves both sides contributing. Not one side asking for information or an explanation and the other side remaining silent expecting that all just goes away because they deem it so. Did Isreal just expect that New Zealand would ignore their own laws and let the two fraudsters go? Why should they? Isreal wouldn't have done that.

maybe it's for a show so everyone in the 'palestinian' / Arab / Muslim camp can clap?
And maybe the reaction was to show that they will not tolerate such behaviour from anyone, even Isreal. I have been amused at the stunned disbelief of the Isreali Government when informed that New Zealand was cancelling the visit of the Isreali President. Amused because such a reaction spoke volumes. Here was a small country that was standing up for itself instead of fawning to the world's baby that could do no wrong but always does.

Voodoo Child absolutely brilliant answer. :D

if they really were Mossad agents then this thing would be kept secret... that's how diplomacy works... but she seems to have some personal vendetta in this case.


Just the way the Soviets did in 1960 with the downing of the U-2. Let’s get real shall we, if I found a spy in my nation I would scream it out and say “hey these asswipes are here again!” Once a spy is caught the gig is up, New Zealand did what any other cognitive nation would have done. Israel is acting like the Pariah she is, and she needs to be shown for what she is.

if they really were Mossad agents then this thing would be kept secret... that's how diplomacy works... but she seems to have some personal vendetta in this case.


Just the way the Soviets did in 1960 with the downing of the U-2. Let’s get real shall we, if I found a spy in my nation I would scream it out and say “hey these asswipes are here again!” Once a spy is caught the gig is up, New Zealand did what any other cognitive nation would have done. Israel is acting like the Pariah she is, and she needs to be shown for what she is.


Sir:
You are making otheadp a very angry person by your posts. Please becareful, your attitude towards the state of Israel might hurt his feelings, since he believes that there is nothing wrong with what ever the state of Israel does. I don't blame him. It is what he might want to believe. I think you are going against the blief that he developed that every one is wrong/lier/ etc etc and State of Israel is the ultimate truth. Instead of admiting simple fact that YES they were spies, he is giving you all kind of excuses, I have noticed that patern in all of his posts, He defends all the wrong or rights. But again my post is not intended towards any one in any bad way. I think it shouldn't be hard to admit one's wrong doings. It is just life, othedep you can just say " YES! they were spies and that is it ".

Im sure there are Mossad Agents in every country. Just like there are KGB, CIA, MI6 etc..etc.. agents in every country. Big deal.

espionage in itself is "illegal".
but despite this fact every country has an external intelligence agency and nobody's even hiding it.
there were surveilance devices found in Coffee Anan's office and he said the dumbest thing that i've ever heard him say. "spying on me is illegal"

well duh!!!

people keep forgetting that that term does not apply to certain things

Spying happens everywhere that’s true, but what’s the cardinal rule of espionage? Not to get caught, what a concept a secret intelligence operation! Slap me again, I need to be woken up. If Israel found a Syrian secret service in the Knesset, Israel would probably start a war. Good ole Oth here would defend that decision with all his might. If you are caught being a spy you deserve to be paraded.