I just watch a episode on south park about them… it tells a story on how the Mormon religion was started, is that for real? Anyone here know how the Mormon religion was started?

Originally posted by Neuromancer
I just watch a episode on south park about them… it tells a story on how the Mormon religion was started, is that for real? Anyone here know how the Mormon religion was started?

As I recall the story, the South Park caricature was pretty accurate, as far as caricatures go. Have you ever read Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's first Sherlock Holmes tale, "A Study in Scarlet"? The issue of the early Mormon practice of polygamy was given less than flattering treatment within its pages, but it was a fascinating read - from a non-Mormon perspective, that is.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/

Very strict religion from what I have seen and heard.

So basically we should believe in him because he was a total altruist?

Re: What the heck is with Mormons?

Nothing I guess, except the difference between a mormon and a muslim is that a mormon will just knock on the door, whereas a muslim will blow the whole fucking building up.

:D

Not I, said the Duck. I don't pretend to understand Mormons. I have a Book of Mormon on my shelf, but it makes less sense to me than the Bible.

The South Park caricature, I agree, was about as accurate as you could get based on social perception. People might think it cruel, but aside from the "dumb dumb dumb" chorus, it was a fair treatment.

If you really want to be tripped out ... : Google search: "Mormon underwear." (http://www.google.com/search?q=mormon+underwear&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)

This I do not pretend to understand.

Even funnier is this anti-Mormon page (http://home.earthlink.net/~thogmi/undies/undies.html) available via the above Google search. Sadly, it accidentally makes Christians look worse than Mormons. I find that measure of self-defeat rather quite sad. But it's still ... quite the funny page. I think even some Mormons ought to get a chuckle or two from it.

that anti-Mormon pages does make Christians look bad, REALLY BAD!

Originally posted by tiassa
Even funnier is this anti-Mormon page (http://home.earthlink.net/~thogmi/undies/undies.html) available via the above Google search. Sadly, it accidentally makes Christians look worse than Mormons. I find that measure of self-defeat rather quite sad. But it's still ... quite the funny page. I think even some Mormons ought to get a chuckle or two from it.

Thanks for posting that link, Tiassa. I agree that the Christian who wrote this is pointing four fingers back at his own religion with many of his statements. Here are some of my personal favorites from that page:

Christ Jesus started the only true church in A.D. 33., it was and is the Pentecostal denomination. :D

God said, "A man must have only one wife until death."

Christ Jesus with signs, wonders, miracles, and healings, by past and present holy men, show the true Bible of today.

Christ Jesus took no teachings from any heathen religion his "doctrine of truth" came from God.

It is easy to get sinners together and start a false religion, but to serve Christ Jesus in the Pentecostal way, not many will say yes.

(Note: Compare the membership numbers on this (http://www.religioustolerance.org/us_rel2.htm) page for LDS and Pentecostal churches.)

The scary thing is that this person fancies himself as an "Endtime Prophet". But there is much more at that site from this "Endtime Prophet" that isn't quite so funny - take a look at this one, for example:

G-A-Y means: "Got Aids Yet?" (http://home.earthlink.net/~thogmi/fag/fag.html). :bugeye:

Nehushta,

I thought Mormons were all about preaching love and peace for EVERYONE, what this? :confused: :D

Originally posted by Neuromancer
Nehushta,

I thought Mormons were all about preaching love and peace for EVERYONE, what this? :confused: :D

That was actually another page from the Pentecostal link Tiassa provided - sorry for the confusion.

Oh, I meet Mormons before, my parent’s neighbors are Mormon, they have 9 kids! And possible more then one women of the house! And every couple of minutes during the day we can hear them blowing a whistle like their training their children to be religious fighters of Armageddon. :eek:

Isn't Orson Scott Card a practicing Morman? He doesn't seem that kooky...

That anti-mormon page is actually pretty entertaining. Tiassa, and anyone else who likes this kind of stuff, ever go to Chick.com (http://www.chick.com)? It's home to all those illustrated tracts that tell you why Buddhists or Catholics or Jews or basically anyone who isn't Baptist are going straight to the eternal fires of HELL. Pretty entertaining.

Walker,

I’m afraid you don't get what so wrong with that page, the author accuses Mormons of being satanic and that his religion is the truth, without proof!

Watch I could do the same thing:
"Walker your religion is a lie and a shame, you follow Satan! My religion is the one true faith and all most obey or else you’re going to hell! Atheism is the only true religion you all are fools!!!"

If you can’t see how incredibly stupid that is then I will have a new caliber to measure idiocy with.

Neuromancer: Yeah, I know! It's completely ridiculous, presumptuous, biased and bigoted. But I think that level of ignorance is funny. Yes, I know that ignorant people who write this stuff are potentially dangerous and undoubtedly hurtful, which is not funny. But their stupidity itself amuses me.

The link I posted is to a pretty similar website, but with lots of self-incriminating illustrations.

I just watch a episode on south park about them… it tells a story on how the Mormon religion was started, is that for real? Anyone here know how the Mormon religion was started?Two persons that were Mormons (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) visited school and talked about their religion, they believe that God is a man of flesh and bone.

The religion was started by a man who met a angel while he was wondering what church was the right one. The angel said to him that all churches has gone away from the original church that Jesus started, and the angel appearently gave him directions on how to rebuild the church.

Asside from God as a man of flesh and bone, the religion seems pretty much like christianity except that instead of heaven and hell there are a prison and a paradise, according to them you get in the prison when you take the wrong way through life, but then there is prophets and holy men that can help the ones in prison by giving advice how to get to paradise.

It sounded like their meaning of prison is chaos where all meanings are mixed up and the soul is lost (but can be saved by the ones in paradise that can lead it right).

Mormons official website (http://www.mormon.org/)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cyperium
[B]Two persons that were Mormons (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) visited school and talked about their religion, they believe that God is a man of flesh and bone.

The religion was started by a man who met a angel while he was wondering what church was the right one. The angel said to him that all churches has gone away from the original church that Jesus started, and the angel appearently gave him directions on how to rebuild the church.

Asside from God as a man of flesh and bone, the religion seems pretty much like christianity except that instead of heaven and hell there are a prison and a paradise, according to them you get in the prison when you take the wrong way through life, but then there is prophets and holy men that can help the ones in prison by giving advice how to get to paradise.

It sounded like their meaning of prison is chaos where all meanings are mixed up and the soul is lost (but can be saved by the ones in paradise that can lead it right).

Mormons official website (http://www.mormon.org/)
----------
M*W: I have visited Salt Lake City four times to utilize their genealogy library which is amazing for searching family trees. One thing I thought was interesting as I was walking along Temple Square, there were many ex-LDS members who were passing out tracts of the evils of Mormonism. I've never seen this being done at any other religious site! The tracts they were handing to the people whom they stopped on the street to convert were decidedly Christian! Is there no escape?

Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman,

Do you know why the Mormons have such thorough geneological records? They go back through old documents - death certificates, etc. - and convert dead non-mormons to their religion without their consent (obviously, they're dead). They believe that doing so will save their souls from hell or get them out of prison or whatever. They write down the names of everyone they convert and the resulting documentation is considered the best way to trace your family tree.

They also believe Adam and Eve were form West Virginia. Nuts huh? It's a totally America-centric bastardization of Christianity. The founder of this religion was a known alcoholic. But he was able to trick enough people while he was alive to start a religion. He was eventually thrown in prison, and then an angry mob broke into the prison to kill him! But martyring him only helped to strengthen his followers. And that's how it all got started.

That South Park episode was hilarious. And pathetically accurate. I think there is a lesson to be learned here about false prophets.

Originally posted by pool boy
Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman,

Do you know why the Mormons have such thorough geneological records? They go back through old documents - death certificates, etc. - and convert dead non-mormons to their religion without their consent (obviously, they're dead). They believe that doing so will save their souls from hell or get them out of prison or whatever. They write down the names of everyone they convert and the resulting documentation is considered the best way to trace your family tree.

They also believe Adam and Eve were form West Virginia. Nuts huh? It's a totally America-centric bastardization of Christianity. The founder of this religion was a known alcoholic. But he was able to trick enough people while he was alive to start a religion. He was eventually thrown in prison, and then an angry mob broke into the prison to kill him! But martyring him only helped to strengthen his followers. And that's how it all got started.

That South Park episode was hilarious. And pathetically accurate. I think there is a lesson to be learned here about false prophets.
----------
M*W: Yes, I know it is a big part of their religion, and their library is "to die for!" Pardon the pun. They have better records than the National Archives. I don't know a whole lot about the LDS church, but now you've got me curious why they believe A&E were from WV! I was born there, too! I didn't see the South Park episode, but I can only imagine! I really don't care what they believe as long as I have access to their genealogy records!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pool boy
[B]Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman,
----------
M*W: BTW, I meant to tell you that Dr. Quinn is fictional. I'm the real thing.

mormonism is a front for radical patriarchy
since i like my bitches naked, in the kitchen, in the bedroom, on the couch and mowing the law.... i support this great movement

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
I'm the real thing.

quack

what Mormons do is baptize each other in the name of the dead person... they think by doing so, they save that person... its based on a literal interpretation of (1 Cor 15:29 NKJV) Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?

Mormons say they believe in the virgin birth, but what they mean by this is that they believe Mary was a virgin when Adam, the Adam from the Garden of Eden, the god assigned to this world, went in to have sex with her. Jesus was the result of that sexual union.

They believe Satan and Jesus are spirit brothers.

They also believe that the Mormon husband who attains godhood has the right to choose whether or to ressurect his wife, if she was a good enough wife, he will, if not, he will leave her to her grave forever. At any rate, the Mormon who attains godhead is then given a planet and will eventually have numerous wives to populate the universe with spirit babies throughout all eternity.... there is a high level of depression among Mormon women, who have to be concerned to please their husbands enough so that he will ressurect her.... :(

It's interesting to see how many rumors pop up about Mormons. Well, it's interesting to me anyway because I happen to be one....so to speak. I stopped going about a year ago, but I'm still on the member list. If anyone has any questions, I'll gladly answer them......so long as no one tries to start arguing with me. I have had my share of arguing when I left the Mormons and have no desire for more. So, if your a hater jsut wanting to vent, go elsewhere. If your curious, ask away......

Gadget252,

Could you tell us how mormonisum was founded?

Did you see the South Park take on mormons? Was it some what accurate???

Mormonism is a polytheistic religion that teaches that God was once a living being from another planet and that good, faithful Mormons can themselves become gods through the process of Eternal Progression.

There is also something about a planet called Kolob; God was/is living there, or some such story.

Being a god would be kind of cool, but I don't think I could give up caffeine or raise 39 children without going insane.

They're wierd, that's what's up with the mormons.

It's weird because it's different from what most other religions teach.

Sure, it was probably just a story invented by Joseph Smith, but the idea of God being an alien from another planet really isn't any weirder than the Christian/Jewish/Muslim's invisible friend in the sky.

Are you sure your not confusing scientology with LDS? Or are they both as cooky?

I personally find J.Ws. funny as well.

...the idea of God being an alien from another planet... Is this really what the mormon religion is based on??

:eek: No wonder they see polygamy as acceptable!

Why should polygamy be unacceptable? Granted, the results of 'institutionalized' polygamy has resulted in psychological problems with the women... but polygamy is not the problem, subjugation of women is.

Ya let the women have multiple husbands… more loving to go around more satisfaction for her. :D

Originally posted by Persol
Are you sure your not confusing scientology with LDS? Or are they both as cooky?

I have read about the "God was once a mortal man" thing from various internet sources, all of which provided references for this statement. Granted, being on the internet doesn't make something automatically true and I suppose one could just invent a fake reference, but I haven't had much luck finding any source refuting these claims (although I've never put a ton of time into finding more information on the subject since I have no interest in joining a church).

As far as kookiness goes; I believe that it only seems extraordinarily kooky because it is an idea the average person has never really considered.

Originally posted by Persol
I personally find J.Ws. funny as well.

Then you can have the ones who knock on my door. LOL.

It's entertaining. I used to work with one. I made it a point to bless him everytime he sneezed. I also debated with him every chance I got. It's amazing how little somebody can know about WHY they do things, and the origins/history of their religion.

But no worries. I equally descriminate against all religions:) Some just make it so damn easy.

Why should polygamy be unacceptable? Because a man can only pregnate one woman at a time.

Originally posted by Mucker
Because a man can only pregnate one woman at a time. Well obviously not 'at the same time', but give a guy 15-20 mintes and he's good to go:)

My point: a man CAN be the father of 2 fetuses at a time. What you seem to mean is that he "shouldn't"... in which case you need to explain why. Saying "because my religion says so" leaves no difference between you and the mormon with 12 wives.

A man can potentially have 365 children in one year, a women 1.5.

That would be one long year

Is there a medical limitation to one a day... or is it just the lack of caffiene? :)

I don't know if a man could survive more 2 or more times a day for 365 days. I think one a day is the educated guess limit. If you want you could have use artificial insemination and father millions of children from one load of goo.

No fun in that.

How about we stick with 365, but we try with 2 at a time anyway?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
[B]A man can potentially have 365 children in one year, a women 1.5.
----------
M*W: I think you are short changing the power of men. Give them a break! They could impregnant at least a minimum of 730 woman per day at the very least! Of course, depending on their age, it could be as many as 1,095 per day (if they're younger).

A woman can give birth to 4 children in 3 years.

Technically, a women could give birth to a dozen kids in one year.

Originally posted by Persol
Technically, a women could give birth to a dozen kids in one year.

would she burst like a balloon? kind of like how a man would fall over died form having enough sex to beget thousand of children in one year? A women could provide enough ova for several thousand children with proper hormone treatment and extraction.

ouch

gadget... not sure if your comment on rumors was directed towards me... but here is some info on the Adam-God doctrine:

"Adam-God Taught, Called Doctrine and Revelation

How much unbelief exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me - namely that Adam is our father and God ..Then he said, 'I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful. I received my crown and exaltation...I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come here and take tabernacles of flesh that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle...' (Brigham Young, Deseret Weekly News, June 18, 1873, page 308; Deseret Evening News, June 14, 1873)

Who was the Savior begotten by?....Who did beget him? His Father, and his father is our God, and the Father of our spirits, and he is the framer of the body, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who is he? He is Father Adam; Michael; the Ancient of Days. (President Brigham Young, Feb. 19, 1854, Brigham Young Collection, LDS Archives; ; Brigham Young Addresses, 1850-1854, Vol. 2, by Elden J. Watson, sheet 179 (in chronological order), Historical Dept. Church, Ms d 1234, Box 48 Fd. 11; also in Adam Is God???, pp. 9-10; Adam-God Maze, p.101)

Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. (Brigham Young, October 7, 1857, Journal of Discourses 5:331).

Some years ago I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and God...It is one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven... (President Brigham Young, in the Tabernacle, General Conference, October 8, 1861, 10:30 a.m.; Brigham Young Addresses, 1860-1864, Vol. 4, by Elden J. Watson, sheet 134 (in chronological order), Historical Dept. Church, Ms d 1234, Box 49 fd 8)

I tell you more: Adam is the father of our spirits. He lived upon an earth, he did abide his creation and did honor to his calling and priesthood and obeyed his master or lord, and probably many of his wives did the same, and they lived and died upon an earth and then were resurrected again to immortality and eternal life. (Brigham Young, October 8, 1854, Brigham Young Addresses, 18509-1854, Vol. 2, by Elden J. Watson, sheet 221 (in chronological order), Historical Dept. Church, Box 49 fd 12)

The following is that part of the Lecture at the Veil which was delivered by President Young at his home in St. George, Utah, on the evening of February 7th, 1877:...

16. Adam was an immortal being when he came on this earth;

17. He had lived on an earth similiar [sic] to ours; he had received the Priesthood and the keys thereof,

18. And had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation, and was crowned with glory, immortality and eternal lives, and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness,

19.And had begotten all the spirits that was to come to this earth. (Unpublished Revelations of the Prophets and Presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, complied by Fred C. Collier, Vol 1, pp. 116-117, Collier's Publishing Co. P.O. Box 1866, Salt Lake City, UT 84110, 2nd edition 1981)

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body [see footnote 2 for more on celestial body.], and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken__HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non_professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later... Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. (Journal of Discourses, 1:50_51, Brigham Young, April 9, 1852)."

On the practice of baptizing for the dead, see the following Mormon page:
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_BaptDead.shtml

on Jesus and Satan being spirit brothers:
# The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," Mormon Doctrine, page 192.
# Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.

as an added bonus, heres some info on the planet Kolob:
God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.


lastly, re the ressurection of the wife as being dependant on the husband:
LDS Apostle Charles W. Penrose wrote:

In the divine economy, as in nature, the man "is the head of the woman," and it is written that "he is the savior of the body." But "the man is not without the woman" any more than the woman is without the man, in the Lord. Adam was first formed, then Eve. In the resurrection, they stand side by side and hold dominion together. Every man who overcomes all things and is thereby entitled to inherit all things, receives power to bring up his wife to join him in the possession and enjoyment thereof.

In the case of a man marrying a wife in the everlasting covenant who dies while he continues in the flesh and marries another by the same divine law, each wife will come forth in her order and enter with him into his glory. ("Mormon" Doctrine Plain and Simple, or Leaves from the Tree of Life, by Charles W. Penrose, p.66, 1897, Salt Lake City, UT.)

LDS Apostle Erastus Snow preached the following on Sunday, Oct. 4, 1857:

Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands?... Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? "What!—my husband to be my lord?" I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never got into the celestial kingdom [during the temple ceremony] without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 291)

William Clayton, secretary to Joseph Smith, also discussed some of the temple work in his journals. In the Introduction to An Intimate Chronicle: The Journals of William Clayton we read:

Clayton described the temple endowment, a ritualized drama of the creation, fall, and redemption of Adam, during which its participants promise obedience and loyalty to the church, and repeat passwords and signs they believe will enable them to enter into the celestial or highest kingdom of heaven. He wrote about washings and anointings, preparatory rituals for the endowment ceremony, and described dramatic role-playing in which church members act out the Garden of Eden story of Adam, Eve, and the serpent.

As church members rehearsed this celestial drama, they wore special clothing and volunteered the necessary words and signs to enter the highest heaven, the Celestial Kingdom. Clayton recorded that "The tokens and covenants are. . . the key by which you approach God and be recognized." In this ceremony, each husband escorted his wife through a veil, calling her by a "new temple name." The woman's salvation would depend upon her husband's priesthood authority. Clayton reported Brigham Young saying that "the man must love his God and the woman must love her husband," adding that "woman will never get back, unless she follows the man back." (Introduction to An Intimate Chronicle: The Journals of William Clayton, edited by George D. Smith, Signature Books, p. xxxvi-xxxvii; see also p. 204-240.)

Writing in 1870, former Mormon Mary Ettie Smith related her experience with the LDS Church and the temple ritual:

My husband,...and myself, were called to the [Nauvoo] Temple to receive our "Endowments." . . .

The room I had entered was nearly filled with women; no men were in this room; and no women were in the room at the right, where Wallace had entered. Here we were undressed and washed in a large tub of warm water . . . and then anointed with "consecrated oil," . . . we were then dressed with a white night-gown and skirt, and shoes of bleached drilling, and with our hair loose and dripping with consecrated oil, each received a new name, and were instructed that we were never to pronounce this name on earth but once: and that, when we came to enter within the "Veil," hereafter described.

The same process is gone through with in the men's washing-room . . . and when all was ready in both rooms, each party was piloted by one of their own sex into a common room, fitted up to represent, and called the Garden of Eden. . . . "We . . . each put on the "garment," [Special LDS underwear. An abbreviated version is still worn by faithful Mormons today.] which is so arranged as to form a whole suit at once; and the "robe," which is a strip of white muslin [cotton], say three-fourths of a yard wide, and long enough to reach to the feet, gathered in the middle, and tied by a bow, to the left shoulder, and brought across the body, and the edges fastened together on the right side, with a belt around the waist of the same. Over this was put the apron we had received in the "first glory;" and the women wore what is called a veil . . .

We were next led into what is called the Terrestrial Glory; where Brigham Young received us, . . . he gave each a pass-word and grip necessary, he said, to admit us into the "Celestial Glory;" . . . there are many gods, and they do not acknowledge the one Triune God of the Bible, but that every man will sometime be a "god;" and that women are to be the ornaments of his kingdom, and dependent upon him for resurrection and salvation; and that our salvation is dependent upon the recollection of these passwords; . . ." (Mormonism: Its Rise, Progress, and Present Condition. Embracing the Narrative of Mrs. Mary Ettie V. Smith, of Her Residence and Experience of Fifteen Years with the Mormons..., by N. W. Green, Hartford, 1870, p. 42-48)

After Mrs. Smith and her first husband, Wallace Henderson, left Nauvoo and headed west, their marriage began to fall apart. Among other indiscretions, Mr. Henderson took another wife and Ettie left him. When she later explained to Apostle Orson Hyde why she had left her husband, Mr. Hyde replied:

"The reasons you have given do not constitute a lawful excuse for leaving your husband, according to the laws of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

I then rose up to go, as I did not propose to discuss the matter with him. But he stopped me, and said, "You may, if you wish, be 'sealed' to me, and then you know there would be no risk to run, in case you should die. Otherwise, if by chance you should drop away, having no husband to raise you at the last day, you could not be 'resurrected' as a saint, and would only be raised like any Gentile, as a servant for the Saints, i.e., for the Mormons.' "

I was so much disgusted with this proposition, that I left him in the most unceremonious manner, in the midst of his disinterested effort for my salvation. Orson Hyde was, at this time, forty years of age, and had at least three wives and one daughter about my own age. I was then nineteen years old. (Mormonism: Its Rise, Progress, and Present Condition, p. 132)

Later in her book, Mrs. Smith discussed the LDS concept of priesthood and salvation:

The priesthood, in some form, is understood to be necessary to the salvation of a male, or at least, to his exaltation; and a female cannot be saved without being "sealed" to some male who is a Priest. Hence all true Mormons are Priests, and women really do not amount to much in themselves, . . . Hence women are often "sealed," that is married to men, when they do not intend to live with them as an earthly wife, but merely that they may be saved by them: in that case they are "sealed" for eternity, as it termed. But when they are married for the natural purposes of a wife, i.e. to have children, they are then said to be "sealed" for time; and they may be "sealed" for one alone, or for both [Thus they can be married for time only, for time and eternity or for just eternity.] If a woman's husband is dead, she need not be sealed again, unless she chooses, and when she does marry again, she is "sealed" only for time, as when she dies, her first husband will "resurrect," i.e. save her; and she will be his in the next world. (Mormonism: Its Rise, Progress, and Present Condition, p. 154 )

The following is a summary of the early Utah temple ceremony as found in History of Utah, 1540-1886, by H. H. Bancroft:

[During the washing and anointing ceremony] The eyes are touched, that they may be quick to see; the ears, that the hearing may be sharp; the mouth, to bestow wisdom upon speech; and the feet, that they be swift to run in the ways of the Lord. Then a new name, which is rarely to be mentioned, is whispered into the ear, and all are marched into room No. 2, where they are seated, the sexes on opposite sides of the room, and facing each other. Here they are told by a priest that any person not strong enough to proceed may retire; but if any portion of the ceremony is disclosed, the throat of the person so offending will be cut from ear to ear. [In 1990 the Mormon Church removed the signs of the death penalties from the ceremony. See Salt Lake City Messenger #75 TEMPLE RITUAL ALTERED.] Those faltering, if any, having retired, the remainder are taken into room No. 3, where a representation of the creation, the temptation, and fall is given.

Each candidate then puts on over his robe an apron of white linen, upon which are sewn pieces of green silk representing fig-leaves, and also the cap or veil. All good Mormons are buried in their endowment robes, and the veil worn by the women covers their faces when they are consigned to the grave. In the morning of the resurrection, this veil is to be lifted by the husband; otherwise no woman can see the face of the almighty in the next world. This ends the first degree; and the initiated are now driven out of Eden into room No. 4, which represents the world, where they encounter many temptations, the chief of which is the false gospel preached by methodists, baptists, etc.

Finally St James and St John appear and proclaim the true gospel of Mormonism, which all gladly embrace. After this they receive certain grips and pass-words, and all are arranged in a circle, kneel, and the women lower their veils. Then, with the right hand uplifted, an oath is taken to avenge the death of Joseph Smith, jun., upon the gentiles who had caused his murder, to teach the children of the church to do likewise, [The oath against the murderers of the Smiths has since been removed.] to obey implicitly and without murmur or question all commands of the priesthood, to refrain from adultery, and finally, eternal secrecy concerning all that transpired in the endowment house is promised.

Then comes an address, after which another room is entered, leading from which is a door with a hole in it, covered with a piece of muslin [cotton]. The men approach this door in turn and ask to enter. Then a person behind the door reaches through the opening, and with knife in hand cuts a certain mark on the left breast of the shirt, another over the abdomen, and one over the right knee, which marks are faithfully copied by the women in their own garments after returning to their homes. [These markings are already sewn on the garments today.] The man then mentions his new name, gives the grip of the third degree, and is permitted to pass in. This is called going behind the veil.

When the men are all in, each woman is passed through by her husband, or having none, by one of the brethren. This concludes the ceremony, with the exception of marriage, which will be noticed elsewhere. Of these ceremonies Mrs Stenhouse, from whose account the foregoing is partly taken, says: "About what was done in Nauvoo, I can only speak by hearsay, but have been told many strange and revolting stories about the ceremonies which were there performed. Of the endowments in Utah, everything was beautifully neat and clean, and I wish to say most distinctly that, although the initiation appears now to my mind as a piece of the most ridiculous absurdity, there was, nevertheless, nothing in it indecent or immoral. . . ." (History of Utah, 1540-1886, by H. H. Bancroft, 1889, ch. 15, no. 17, p. 357-358)

Wow thanks KJB :)

There is some messed up stuff in here. I'll ahve to go through it later. I can tell right now, though, that KJB is probably one of the anti-Mormon people.

Okay I back...had some internet problems.

So yeah........origins of the mormon religion.

Back in the 1800s Joseph Smith found a buncha golden plates that had been hidden in the ground by an angel. Through the gift of the holy spirit he translated them into a modern day book, the Book of Mormon. Its called the Book of Mormon because thats who wrote it.......a man named Mormon. Apparently Joseph was confused about which church to join. So he went into a grove and prayed.........yada yada yada.........had a vision....yada yada yada.......found the plates.

You really want to be suprised???? Ask me about poligamy....(hope I spelled that right?)

KJB, my comment wasnt directed toward you at all.....twas just my way of saying that I am not mormon anymore, but have nothing against them either.

What about those plates were they ever observed to exist by anyone else??? Was Joseph Smith tested to see if he was lying or not (like how he was tested in the south park spoof). Ok what about polygamy?