"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

Sounds simple and the fundamental of what religion ultimately boils down to. Yet, instead of complicated philosophies and moral rules, why not follow that basic rule? If everyone can do that, happiness and world peace would ensue.

Define "good." However you define it, noone will be able to do it.

I think it's true that people are always operating on what is "good". Always.

It's the variation in what good becomes that accounts for interal and social strife.

It's not always easy to say what's good I suppose.

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

Sounds simple and the fundamental of what religion ultimately boils down to. Yet, instead of complicated philosophies and moral rules, why not follow that basic rule? If everyone can do that, happiness and world peace would ensue.
Because the definitions of what is good and what is bad differ from individual to individual.

Well, human beings instinctly act on behavior that have some kind of common sense of what's good and bad. Stealing is wrong, killing is wrong, harming others is wrong, etc. When we think of "bad" that should come to mind.

I'm sure if I tell you to be "good" and not bad all the time, you'll be a more better person, even if you do not really know what it is. It's instinct.

Stealing is wrong,
Unless I'm not affecterd.
killing is wrong,
When I don't benefit.
harming others is wrong
When I don't gain anything.

What you're saying is based on the exception. Of course, there are exceptions to everything - including lying. Common sense I would say.

If everyone take the notion of stealing, no one benefits in the long run, since we lose our sense of property. Same goes with killing and harming others. It's bad if you universalize it and destruct the survival of lives in the long run.

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

* What if you do good and get bad? Can you then give bad back?

If you do good and get bad, don't give up. Just keep on doing good. Good actions and intention is never wasted. Contrast this to doing bad all the time in the long run, you do not benefit. Would you rather have the saying go, "If you do good, you get bad. If you do bad, you get good." Imagine the confusion and chaos.

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

* What if you do good and get bad? Can you then give bad back?

We don't have the insight into
what is the return for what.


It generally holds that what goes around, comes around,
in some way, in some time.

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

Sounds simple and the fundamental of what religion ultimately boils down to. Yet, instead of complicated philosophies and moral rules, why not follow that basic rule? If everyone can do that, happiness and world peace would ensue.
nothing except it's a statement from man, man had morals long before religion came on the scene, man is a social animal.
man certainly does not need religion to have morals, infact religion only causes man to kill all the more, "my gods bigger then your god", comes to mind.
eradicate religion and you will have peace.

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

What is wrong is that a statement out of the blue with no particular author,
no particular subject, no particular object and no particular context is neither here nor there,
a non issue with no apparent purpose.


---

We don't have the insight into
what is the return for what.

It generally holds that what goes around, comes around,
in some way, in some time.

Not based on any kind of hard and fast truth or rule that we know of. Could be that in the circumstances when it may be true it was only true in the sense of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In other words, when you say "what goes around, comes around," this is just another one of those things that we like to pretend is true, and when you pretend it is true, it may become true, for you.

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

* This seems like a naively optimistic view that sets one up for disappointment.

I agree though with: "Good actions and intention is never wasted." ... provided one has absolutely no expectations for good to be returned.

Quote w:
"We don't have the insight into
what is the return for what."

* Agreed.

Quote w:
"It generally holds that what goes around, comes around,
in some way, in some time."

* The unfathomable part of my psyche agrees with that notion.

Quote Cotton:
“In other words, when you say "what goes around, comes around," this is just another one of those things that we like to pretend is true, and when you pretend it is true, it may become true, for you.”

* Yep. :)

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

Sounds simple and the fundamental of what religion ultimately boils down to. Yet, instead of complicated philosophies and moral rules, why not follow that basic rule? If everyone can do that, happiness and world peace would ensue.

This is called 'Karma' is it not.

Meanwhile if you were to ask most criminals of any description in prison, if they thought they were bad people, they WOULD say NO, asked if good, they WOULD say yes. Everyone excuses their own crap acts and justifies them to themselves. Self perception is very individual. So saying be good, don't be bad, most people (regardless of whether they are rapists, murderers, thieves, politicans, scientists ;) ......) believe they are GOOD people.

This is called 'Karma' is it not.

Meanwhile if you were to ask most criminals of any description in prison, if they thought they were bad people, they WOULD say NO, asked if good, they WOULD say yes. Everyone excuses their own crap acts and justifies them to themselves. you cant blame them, even the church forgives them, so how can they ever think there guilty. and tells them they will goto heaven, go figure.

We don't have the insight into
what is the return for what.


It generally holds that what goes around, comes around,
in some way, in some time.

we sure do. if you help a little old lady across the street and she punches you in the face on the other side, you were trying to do good and got bad. how can you not have insight into that?

it does not generally hold true that what goes around comes around. thats called karma, and it doesnt exist. what actually happens is that you do something wrong, feel bad and guilty about it, feel even worse when you aren't punished for it, and then when something even remotely similar affects you negatively you say oh shit, now im reaping the fruits of my bad deed and so i dont have to feel bad for it anymore. horseshit.

IDENTITYLESS:
religion cant be boiled down to anything, if it could be boiled down to "do good and get good in return" then there wouldnt be religious wars. you cannot distill a whole varied body of beliefs into one singular axiomatic statement. you may think that that is what is most important about the religious belief from your point of view, but that is certainly not going to be true for everybody else, so i think its sort of a moot point.

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

Sounds simple and the fundamental of what religion ultimately boils down to. Yet, instead of complicated philosophies and moral rules, why not follow that basic rule? If everyone can do that, happiness and world peace would ensue.

I doubt it. Bush and Blair thought they were doing good by invading Iraq. Even getting their guidance from God apparently.

Not based on any kind of hard and fast truth or rule that we know of. Could be that in the circumstances when it may be true it was only true in the sense of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In other words, when you say "what goes around, comes around," this is just another one of those things that we like to pretend is true, and when you pretend it is true, it may become true, for you.

I don't see it as "one of those things that we like to pretend is true",
but as a moral stance, a basis for action.

Well, human beings instinctly act on behavior that have some kind of common sense of what's good and bad. Stealing is wrong, killing is wrong, harming others is wrong, etc. When we think of "bad" that should come to mind.

I'm sure if I tell you to be "good" and not bad all the time, you'll be a more better person, even if you do not really know what it is. It's instinct.

I deal with people on a daily basis that don't see things the way you do, or indeed cannot help but do things opposite to what you suggest.

From an open minded perspective I can see how things will escalate from there - because of what is or isn't "good" as you see it.

As an example let me offer the following:

You believe murder is not good. Someone I personally know cannot make that distinction, because - in simplest forms, he is not well. This man then proceeds to kill your entire family. As a result of his inabilities, you then seek revenge and kill his entire family. While it might not make you feel much better - every little helps, as my good friend Tesco's would say.

Thus we are left with a dilemma... Was your killing spree any more or less moral than his? Let it be said that he did not understand what you do, and thus your killing spree is instantly worse than his. He did all that he understands, you went against what is good or bad with knowledge of what that good or bad entails - and yet your killing is justified.

While I certainly understand "two wrongs don't make a right", I have yet to meet one person not murder, or attempt to murder, the person that raped and killed their child/wife/mother. In this instance is killing bad?

Everything else has it's equals, but murder was the most pertinent example.

It's upto you to make the decision.

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

The cleanest definitions of 'Good' and 'Evil' I can come up with are as follows:

Good - A label for a persons individual and constantly moving tolerance to the presence or absence of varying forms and degress of altruistic behavior.

Evil - A label for a persons individual and constantly moving tolerance to the presence or absence of varying forms and degress of exploitive behavior.

To assert doing 'Good' means that you have to meet every person's tolerance and that's not possible. To meet the criteria of even one person's tolerance (whether its yours or someone elses) doesn't even come close to guaranteeing that the same behavior will be returned to you.



Sounds simple and the fundamental of what religion ultimately boils down to.

I disagree, I have seen evidence that the spirit of religion is to provide a non-disputable common ground where people can relate to each other and themselves in healthy way.


Yet, instead of complicated philosophies and moral rules, why not follow that basic rule? If everyone can do that, happiness and world peace would ensue.

The rule is subjective and not realistic.

It generally holds that what goes around, comes around,
in some way, in some time.we sure do. if you help a little old lady across the street and she punches you in the face on the other side, you were trying to do good and got bad. how can you not have insight into that?

Ask the old lady why she did it.

----

Ask the old lady why she did it.

----

huh?

There are elements of good in everything that's bad. Murder, generally accepted as bad, is good for the police, undertaker, gravediggers, monument makers, etc. The families of these people also benefit as it is an income source which eventually helps merchants and the government(taxation). Its a neverending cycle.

Here's the problem with that message from religion, "do good and you get good"...usually the good is for the "common good".
I, however, am concentrated on what is good for me and what few loved ones I have.

I guess all those who died trying to eradicate the Nazi's from Europe weren't doing any good unless dying is a good thing.

I guess all those who died trying to eradicate the Nazi's from Europe weren't doing any good unless dying is a good thing.
That's different. That's stopping a genocide, which goes beyond the common good, and into "holy shit, those guys are committing a genocide, we need to stop them."

"IF you do good, you get good. If you do bad, you get bad."

Sounds simple and the fundamental of what religion ultimately boils down to. Yet, instead of complicated philosophies and moral rules, why not follow that basic rule? If everyone can do that, happiness and world peace would ensue.
you need to examine the authority which saysthat. are you blindly following an authority? if so then the good you THINKyou are doing via obeyance may be bad, and the bad---ie., not cowtowing to tat authority is good. so before anything you must checkout what autority is saying what is good and bad

huh?

Perhaps the old lady punched you in the face because she knows about your insight.

Or perhaps she could tell you if she did it because of a hard and fast truth or rule that we know of,
or it was only true in the sense of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Karma in the Buddhist sense is not about specific results or reactions.
It is about the creation of a general condition as a sum total, conducive to good effect.

----

You would know if it's a good person if the person is doing good deeds not out of selfishness or ego. Why theorize more about it? I love the simplicity the author of this thread is proposing. What is good is good. It would benefit anyone/everyone and anything/everything. Simple as that.

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg, quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg, quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999


Does that also mean that you need religion for evil people to do good things? Because then it doesn't sound so bad.

Does that also mean that you need religion for evil people to do good things? Because then it doesn't sound so bad.
does it say that, no.