I'm curious to know what the oldest KNOWN religion might be? I'm not well-versed on the matter but I do have my suspicions and would appreciate the Sci-guys' input.

Thx

Eman Resu,

It depends on how you define 'religion' but really there has only ever been one religion. When the first man who attributed an unexplained phenomenon to something 'mystical' then religion was born. All religions and superstitions that followed are just variations on the same theme with many religions just being an amalgamation of prior superstitions.

Originally posted by Eman Resu
stuff Sumerian, I imagine. We might have some sort of evidence of tribal religions older than that (maybe in Africa or Europe), but obviously we wouldn't have any written records from earlier than c. 4000 B.C.

the egyption religion?

Originally posted by Asguard
the egyption religion? Nah, I'm pretty sure Sumerian's older. Egyptians came right after.

voodoo

Witchcraft.

The god of thunder and lightning. I believe as Cris that religion began as we use science now, an attempt to give answers to the unexplained.

But there's a big difference between wondering what makes plants grow or rain fall or where the animals all came from, and being frightened from events of a seemingly angry world. At some point people questioned the whys of the world with religion, but the first gods had to be those that caused the terrible events of the skies.

The oldest known god looks like a human with a deers head, but nobody knows anything about who he was or what his religion was like.

There were almost definately gods of this that and the other, not to mention tribal shamans, witchdoctors and whatever else.

As far as I'm aware though the first known religion was that of either the Sumerians or hinduism (I'm not entirely sure which has evidence of being the first).

You could probably make a fairly strong case for sun, moon, or earth (mother) worship I suppose but being probably fairly localised in details I don't know if they'd qualify as a true "accepted" religion.

Originally posted by Eman Resu
I'm curious to know what the oldest KNOWN religion might be? I'm not well-versed on the matter but I do have my suspicions and would appreciate the Sci-guys' input.

Thx

it is ISLAM, since the firsrt human on this earth: prophet Adam was Muslim, then Islam is the oldest religion on earth.

Islam means to submit your will to GOD.

Originally posted by Green_World
it is ISLAM, since the firsrt human on this earth: prophet Adam was Muslim, then Islam is the oldest religion on earth.

Islam means to submit your will to GOD.

i guess that this could be classified under the heading "propaganda", since it excludes all further possible discussion.

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
i guess that this could be classified under the heading "propaganda", since it excludes all further possible discussion.

The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge ( Arabic proverb ).

Originally posted by Green_World
The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Can you proof without using your fantasy and illusion, that Adam was Muslim?
Show your knowledge with categorical facts, can you? I do not think so!
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Microzoft
Can you proof without using your fantasy and illusion, that Adam was Muslim?
Show your knowledge with categorical facts, can you? I do not think so!
:rolleyes:

You see how ignorant you are about Islam:

Islam means submitting your will to ALLAH almighty, Adam(peace be upon him) was the first to submit his will to ALLAH by leaving the paradise, so he is MUSLIM.

Islam does not take its name from Muhammad like christianity from christ or hinduism from Hindu or Judaism from juda or buddism from Buddha, islam means to SUBMIT your will to GOD.

Anyone who submit his will to ALLAH ALMIGHTY is Muslim.

GOT IT???????????

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Green_World
You see how ignorant you are about Islam:

Islam means submitting your will to ALLAH almighty, Adam(peace be upon him) was the first to submit his will to ALLAH by leaving the paradise, so he is MUSLIM.

Islam does not take its name from Muhammad like christianity from christ or hinduism from Hindu or Judaism from juda or buddism from Buddha, islam means to SUBMIT your will to GOD.

Anyone who submit his will to ALLAH ALMIGHTY is Muslim.

GOT IT???????????

:rolleyes:

someone who submits blindly could be classified as a slave. Is allah planning to enslave mankind?

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
someone who submits blindly could be classified as a slave. Is allah planning to enslave mankind?

He is not planning, all mankind are his salves since they were born, because it is HE in his infanite majesty who gave them the gift of life.

I WITNESS THAT I AM THE LOYAL SALVE OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY.

Originally posted by Green_World
He is not planning, all mankind are his salves since they were born, because it is HE in his infanite majesty who gave them the gift of life.

I WITNESS THAT I AM THE LOYAL SALVE OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY.

a salve?

are you the medicinal ointment of allah almighty?
is he suffering from hemorrhoids or something?.

"Islam does not take its name from Muhammad like christianity from christ or hinduism from Hindu or Judaism from juda or buddism from Buddha, islam means to SUBMIT your will to GOD."

As you apparently speak Arabic, perhaps you can clear this one up for me. What does the word Islam mean in literal translation? I've always been told "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God" (as in, the Arabic form of, say, Yahweh).

I believe that in Jesus' times Hebrew was a dead language and so he most likely spoke Aramaic. In Aramaic the word for 'God' is Allah (Allah'a), so when praying, it's Allah Jesus was addressing.

And yet again what might have been an interesting topic is buried under piles of guano, for the simple reason that people cannot restrain themselves from responding to an idiot who will not be affected by a response in any way, except to become even more rabid.

Islam means submitting your will to ALLAH almighty, Adam(peace be upon him) was the first to submit his will to ALLAH by leaving the paradise, so he is MUSLIM.

That's almost the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You try to convince one that Adam was Muslim because he submitted to God. That's just rediculous. As much as you want it to be, Islam IS NOT the oldest religion.

I would have to agree with most. The oldest religion known to man is most likely Sumerian. Ancient Sumerian and Mesopotamian Tablets I believe are the oldest form of doctrine that we know of.

Originally posted by Green_World
it is ISLAM, since the firsrt human on this earth: prophet Adam was Muslim, then Islam is the oldest religion on earth.

Islam means to submit your will to GOD.

Someone has deceived you really bad. There is no evidence of the Islam religion, prior to Muhamad, in 635 AD. When he chose to call the senior god of the Arabic pantheon, the only God. Prior to this time, arabs were polytheistic, as a cursory study of history will show. Islam did not exist, prior to 635 AD. Jesus knew nothing of Islam, he died over 600 years before it was created.

Originally posted by biblthmp
Someone has deceived you really bad. There is no evidence of the Islam religion, prior to Muhamad, in 635 AD. When he chose to call the senior god of the Arabic pantheon, the only God. Prior to this time, arabs were polytheistic, as a cursory study of history will show. Islam did not exist, prior to 635 AD. Jesus knew nothing of Islam, he died over 600 years before it was created.

I think you are shwoing signs of sheer ignorance about the meaning of Islam.

Islam is to submit your will to ALLAH almighty, and since Adam th first prophet submitted his will to God, he is the first muslim and Islam is the first religion.

Originally posted by Green_World
I think you are shwoing signs of sheer ignorance about the meaning of Islam.

Islam is to submit your will to ALLAH almighty, and since Adam th first prophet submitted his will to God, he is the first muslim and Islam is the first religion.

There is no historical record of any God named Allah, with the exception of the lead God of the Arabic polytheist pantheon, prior to 635 AD.

So your saying that any religion where people submit to a god is islam? So does that mean the christianity and judaism are also "islam"?

Islam is to submit your will to ALLAH almighty, and since Adam th first prophet submitted his will to God, he is the first muslim and Islam is the first religion.

Again, that's just about the dumbest thing I have heard. For arguement sake, let's say that Adam did "sibmit his will to Allah"....Is there any evidence of him practicing Islam. Any Doctrine? And correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Prophet Mohummed bring God's word to the people? So how the hell did Adam know about "the message" when the prophet wasn't even born yet? There is no evidence that Adam practice Islam, infact there is no evidence of Adam.

I think shamanism is the oldest religion. :)

Originally posted by Green_World
I think you are shwoing signs of sheer ignorance about the meaning of Islam.

Islam is to submit your will to ALLAH almighty, and since Adam th first prophet submitted his will to God, he is the first muslim and Islam is the first religion.

But then Judaism, claims that Adam was their first prophet. Is Judaism the same thing as Islam? If so why are they killing each other over there?

Originally posted by LIGHTBEING
Again, that's just about the dumbest thing I have heard. For arguement sake, let's say that Adam did "sibmit his will to Allah"....Is there any evidence of him practicing Islam. Any Doctrine? And correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Prophet Mohummed bring God's word to the people? So how the hell did Adam know about "the message" when the prophet wasn't even born yet? There is no evidence that Adam practice Islam, infact there is no evidence of Adam.

you are right, Adam did not practice Islam, but by submitting his will to God he becaome Muslim even without practicing.

Even you can be muslim without practicing if you only submit your will to Allah.

Originally posted by biblthmp
But then Judaism, claims that Adam was their first prophet. Is Judaism the same thing as Islam? If so why are they killing each other over there?

And Adam is ISLAM first prophet as well.

The conflict in Palestine is not religious, it is POLITICAL.

You have nazi terrorist state called israel ILLEGALY occupying the arabs land.

Originally posted by Neutrino_Albatross
So your saying that any religion where people submit to a god is islam? So does that mean the christianity and judaism are also "islam"?

if they submit to only ONE god( Allah in arabic) then YES, they are Muslims.

you are right, Adam did not practice Islam, but by submitting his will to God he becaome Muslim even without practicing.

No, you're wrong



Even you can be muslim without practicing if you only submit your will to Allah.

And again, you're wrong

Originally posted by Circe
I believe that in Jesus' times Hebrew was a dead language and so he most likely spoke Aramaic. In Aramaic the word for 'God' is Allah (Allah'a), so when praying, it's Allah Jesus was addressing.

Hebrew was not a dead lanquage, it was the langague of the temple, and Jesus was fluent in it. When Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah, he was reading Hebrew.

Originally posted by Green_World
You see how ignorant you are about Islam:

Islam means submitting your will to ALLAH almighty, Adam(peace be upon him) was the first to submit his will to ALLAH by leaving the paradise, so he is MUSLIM.

Islam does not take its name from Muhammad like christianity from christ or hinduism from Hindu or Judaism from juda or buddism from Buddha, islam means to SUBMIT your will to GOD.

Anyone who submit his will to ALLAH ALMIGHTY is Muslim.

GOT IT???????????

:rolleyes: You just keep repeating your rhetoric over and over gain. Who is asking you about where the hell the name Islam came from??? You are answering yourself questions that no one is asking!!

I asked you and I repeat, “Can you proof without using your fantasy and illusion, that Adam was Muslim? Show your knowledge with categorical facts, can you? I do not think so!

So, on what facts do you base that Adam was Muslim? Is that too much to ask?
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Green_World
if they submit to only ONE god( Allah in arabic) then YES, they are Muslims.
Green (Zeiko Junior); Many religions have a God, Islam called it Allah and other religions give their God different name. Each religion believes that their God is the only God, as so you do, too, as simple as that.
Unfortunately for you, here at sciforums we can only put up with up to a certain amount of bullshits, but sooner or later we demand facts on the things that you are so certain.

If you check you post, you have being avoiding questions contradicting your claims on Islam, questions like the ever increasing Homosexuality among Muslims and the sub-normal treatment of women in Islam as well as Muslim radical’s crimes on Christians.
Last but not least your explanation on why Christians countries always are first at helping humans in “Natural Catastrophes” , regardless of religion, when the Islamic world stays passive, example; Earthquakes in Turkey, Abuses and crimes by the Taliban??

If you can not answer questions, than don’t simply try to answer your own questions. You say that you do some sort of Lecturing all over the world on Islam, well show you competences without avoiding the issue.
:rolleyes:

http://www.xecu.net/goofyfish/__public/trollsign02.gif

Hebrew was not a dead lanquage, it was the langague of the temple, and Jesus was fluent in it. When Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah, he was reading Hebrew.

Well, I may have been wrong about Hebrew being dead (I did say "I believe") but my point was that Jesus did speak Aramaic. From what I know while on the cross, for example, he was supposed to say 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' in Aramaic.


Aramaic, an ancient Semitic language, was the lingua franca of the Middle East for many centuries. At the time of Jesus' life, Aramaic was the common language of the Jews - from http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/

Originally posted by Green_World
And Adam is ISLAM first prophet as well.

The conflict in Palestine is not religious, it is POLITICAL.

You have nazi terrorist state called israel ILLEGALY occupying the arabs land.


The According to Hitler's biography, the idea for the Nazi final solution was given to Hitler, by the Mullah of Jerusalem, in 1938, when Hitler came for a visit. So I guess, what come around, goes around.

You are absolutely wrong about the cause of the Palestinian uprising. It is 10% religious. It is all a battle over whose God is the real God. Which God will be worshipped in Jerusalem, it is about a terrorist psuedo-state who wants to kick Israel out of the homeland they are returning to, after nearly 1900 years of exile.

Originally posted by Circe
Well, I may have been wrong about Hebrew being dead (I did say "I believe") but my point was that Jesus did speak Aramaic. From what I know while on the cross, for example, he was supposed to say 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' in Aramaic.


Aramaic, an ancient Semitic language, was the lingua franca of the Middle East for many centuries. At the time of Jesus' life, Aramaic was the common language of the Jews - from http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/


You have confused the word Aramaic, with the word Arabic. The Aramaic word for God, is Elo, not Allah. When Jesus screamed from the cross quoting Psalm 22:1 "Eloi, Eloi Lama sabacthani" He was speaking in Aramaic, saying My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.

According to recent studies, of documents of the period, the Aramaic did not displace the Hebrew, in the land of Israel as much as had been thought.

Example, in the book of Acts 22:2, in the NIV translation of the bible, the word for Hebrew is intentionally mis-translated "aramaic", due to poor theological presuppositions.

Originally posted by biblthmp
Hebrew was not a dead lanquage, it was the langague of the temple, ... So? Latin was a dead language long before being abandoned by the Catholic Church.

What do you suspect motivated the Septuagint?

Originally posted by biblthmp
When Jesus screamed from the cross quoting Psalm 22:1 "Eloi, Eloi Lama sabacthani" Hypothetically, and according to apologists writing decades afterward.

In my opinion, arguing based on 'what Jesus said' is a bit like proclaiming that Munchkins speak in a high pitched voice because they did so in the Wizard of Oz.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
Hinduism doesn't go back beyond 2500 BCE, and maybe not even that far, perhaps someone has a better date? The Egyptians and Sumerians have a millennium or two head start.


http://www.classicyoga.org/glossary/Shiva-seal-2.gif
Another early depiction of Shiva, from the same period, circa 2500-1500 B.C.E.

http://www.tantraworks.com/img/shivaseal.JPG
Seal of Shiva from Harappa, Indus Valley culture, circa 2500 B.C.E.

Originally posted by Green_World
He is not planning, all mankind are his salves since they were born, because it is HE in his infanite majesty who gave them the gift of life.

I WITNESS THAT I AM THE LOYAL SALVE OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY. That's really great for you. Just because you are Islam and "salve" of Allah, does not mean you have to impose that fact on the rest of us. Have your religion, but don't expect everyone to follow you. And please, don't tell everyone that he or she is going to hell because their religious preference is incorrect. That's just annoying.

I have no problems with any religions, until someone tells me I'm wrong... when there is no right or wrong, it's a preference. Sorry for the off-topic reply, but I've promised myself to tell what I've said to anyone who claims their religions is the correct one.

You have confused the word Aramaic, with the word Arabic. The Aramaic word for God, is Elo, not Allah. When Jesus screamed from the cross quoting Psalm 22:1 "Eloi, Eloi Lama sabacthani" He was speaking in Aramaic, saying My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.

It is interesting to note that the Aramaic word "Alaha", which is the word for God in the language that Jesus spoke, is certainly more similar in sound to the word "Allah" than the English word "God". This also holds true for the various Hebrew words for God, which are "El" and "Elah", and the plural form "Elohim". The reason for these similarities is that Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic are all Semitic languages with common origins. - taken from http://www.createinternational.com/indigitech/WhoAllah.html

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
So? Latin was a dead language long before being abandoned by the Catholic Church.

What do you suspect motivated the Septuagint?

The Septuagint was motivated by the first diaspora. When Israel was exiled from the land in the mid 500s BC by the Assyrians and the Babylonians, not all Jews returned to the land of Israel when they were allowed to about 70 years later. They learned the language of the culture that they resided in, which was eventually Greek, thanks to Alexander the Great. It was not for those who returned to the land of Israel.

Hebrew was the only language allowed in the Temple.

We must remember that the land of Israel was split into 2 separate kingdoms in about 960 BC. The nortehrn Kingdom which retained the name Israel, which was later named Samaria, and the southern Kingdom which was named Judah.

The Northern kingdom assumed the language of Aramaic much more than the southern kingdom, because the north was conquered by the Aramaic speaking Assyrians, and the southern Kingdom of Judah was not conquered by them. Jerusalem was in the southern Kingdom.

Jesus was fluent in both Hebrew, and Aramaic, but there is no evidence he knew Arabic.

He was fluent in Arabic. I saw him talking in Arabic to my friend yesterday :D

We do have all these rumors that he might've visited India.

We must compare God's personality, as He has revealed himself, to see if they are the same. Because just because 2 things have the same name does not mean that they are the same. Just like all men named David, or Michael don't have the same exact personality, which would prove they are the same exact person. So God is described with different attributes, so they aren't the same God.

Let's compare some:

Claims about the Jewish God
1) He has a son
a) Proverbs 30:4
b) Isaiah 9:6

2) God requires the shedding of inocent blood to cover our sin
a) Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls for it is blood that makes atonement for the soul.

3) God is Holy (absolutely morally perfect, and perfectly loving)
a) Isaiah 6 3 " Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord"


4) There are many accounts of Moses, and other Jewish prophets working mighty miracles.

Claims of the Christian God
1 ) He has a son, whose name is Jesus (which literally means "The Lord's salvation")
a) John 3:18
b)Hebrews 1:2
c) I John 2:23 "Whoever denies the son, does not have the father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
d) I John 4:2-3 "By this you know the Spirit of God: Every Spirit that confesses that Jesus the annointed one of God has come in the flesh, is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus the annointed of God has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of Satan's mouthpiece (antichrist), which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
e) Mark 5:7

2) God requires the shedding of inocent blood to cover our sin
a) Hebrews 9:22b "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins"
b) Hebrews 9:12 "not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood He entered the most holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

3) God is Holy (absolutely morally perfect, and perfectly loving)

a) I Peter 1:16 : "Be Holy, for I am Holy.", God speaking

4) There are many reports in the Bible, and in secular sources, like Philo and Josephus, that Jesus and his followers worked many documented miracles. Which continue to happen among believers in Jesus, even unto the present day.

Claims of the Muslim God Allah

1) god has no son.
a) The women 4.171 "Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son"

2) There is no mention in the Koran, regarding shedding of blood, in regards for forgiveness.

3) There is no mention of god's moral perfection in the Koran.

4) Muhamad had no supernatural signs and wonders to validate his claims, except for his dream that he rode a horse to heaven, from Jerusalem.


This shows that the Judeo-Christian God and the god of Islam are not the same, they differ at every point of personality, and the only thing that is the same is their name.

Since there is only one God. One of them must just a deceiver.

Does that prove that there are many different gods or does it perhaps show that there are many descriptions of one God? People of different cultures may perceive God in many ways and they may also have their own agendas to do so.

Originally posted by Circe
Does that prove that there are many different gods or does it perhaps show that there are many descriptions of one God? People of different cultures may perceive God in many ways and they may also have their own agendas to do so.

This shows that there is one God and many imitators, deceivers, and mimicers.