View Full Version : What is truth for…


coberst
02-21-08, 04:28 AM
What is truth for…

I was recently watching a documentary on Discovery Channel about a man who found an infant cheetah alone in the veldt. It was obvious that Cat, our cheetah, could not survive under such circumstances. John, our man, took cat home and attempted to raise her until she could fend for herself in the wild.

After a short period John recognized that he must release Cat into the wild when she had grown sufficiently to fend for her self. Of course, it stuck him that the cat must receive some training before she would be able to kill prey and thus have food and survive.

John set about to train Cat how to stalk and kill prey. He was able to combine the innate ability of Cat with various training techniques to train the Cat to stalk, capture, and kill a running animal, at least in a rudimentary way.

However, training Cat to recognize friend from foe and prey from dangerous animal in the animal kingdom was another matter. It was obvious that John had little ability to ‘educate’ Cat in the subtleties of survival. This was the task that Cat’s mother would have done.

It makes sense to me to conclude that John could not readily teach Cat the truths of her world. Without her mother’s guidance Cat had little chance to survive in her wild world even though she had grown the strength and size necessary to do so. In Cat’s wild world truth is what is necessary for survival.

I would conclude that truth for any animal, including the human animal, is a matter of survivability. Evolution is a process for determining any creature’s ability to comprehend truth, i.e. survive in their particular world.

What is truth for humans? Cognitive science informs me that “truth depends on meaningfulness” and “truth is relative to understanding”. What is meaningful for humans? I would say that, just like Cat, survival is the ultimate meaning for humans just as for Cheetahs.

Cat is not a social animal to the extent that humans are. We can examine social animals such as wolves and apes and we can see that what the group decides is meaningful, i.e. true, determines truth for the individual as well as the group. Truth for humans becomes more complex because humans have created an artificial world of meaning that makes it more difficult to ascertain what is true and what will lead to the extinction of the species.

Isn’t scientific theory an example of truth for humans?

Quotes from “Philosophy in the Flesh” by Lakoff and Johnson

cosmictraveler
02-21-08, 07:27 AM
The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear.
Herbert Agar

Materialism coarsens and petrifies everything, making everything vulgar, and every truth false.
Henri Frederic Amiel

An epigram is a flashlight of a truth; a witticism, truth laughing at itself.
Minna Antrim

Truth sits upon the lips of dying men.
Matthew Arnold

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

Not being known doesn't stop the truth from being true.
Richard Bach

There is no original truth, only original error.
Gaston Bachelard

Truth is a good dog; but always beware of barking too close to the heels of an error, lest you get your brains kicked out.
Francis Bacon

Truth is so hard to tell, it sometimes needs fiction to make it plausible.
Francis Bacon

Truth emerges more readily from error than from confusion.
Francis Bacon

Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority.
Francis Bacon

What is truth? said jesting Pilate; and would not stay for an answer.
Francis Bacon

You never find yourself until you face the truth.
Pearl Bailey

Falsehood is cowardice, the truth courage.
Hosea Ballou

sowhatifit'sdark
02-21-08, 08:13 AM
The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear.
Herbert Agar



And in your case, if you had to guess, what would be a truth you prefer not to hear but that might make you more free?

cosmictraveler
02-21-08, 08:16 AM
That my IBM stocks were going to be worthless in 24 hours so then I could sell them off now to reap a better profit and not lose anything at all. ;)

greenberg
02-21-08, 05:58 PM
The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear.
Herbert Agar

Materialism coarsens and petrifies everything, making everything vulgar, and every truth false.
Henri Frederic Amiel

An epigram is a flashlight of a truth; a witticism, truth laughing at itself.
Minna Antrim

Truth sits upon the lips of dying men.
Matthew Arnold

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

Not being known doesn't stop the truth from being true.
Richard Bach

There is no original truth, only original error.
Gaston Bachelard

Truth is a good dog; but always beware of barking too close to the heels of an error, lest you get your brains kicked out.
Francis Bacon

Truth is so hard to tell, it sometimes needs fiction to make it plausible.
Francis Bacon

Truth emerges more readily from error than from confusion.
Francis Bacon

Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority.
Francis Bacon

What is truth? said jesting Pilate; and would not stay for an answer.
Francis Bacon

You never find yourself until you face the truth.
Pearl Bailey

Falsehood is cowardice, the truth courage.
Hosea Ballou

How I hate such supposedly "witty and truthful" sayings.
What bloody guilt-trips! They appear to be wise and true because in many people, they provoke intense feelings of guilt. And if one feels guilty, it must be that it is because of something that is wise and true!

sowhatifit'sdark
02-21-08, 08:25 PM
That my IBM stocks were going to be worthless in 24 hours so then I could sell them off now to reap a better profit and not lose anything at all. ;)

This is a truth you do not want to hear?
I mean apart from being flippant, it doesn't seem to fit.

Paul_S
02-22-08, 12:21 AM
Hi coberst,

I heard about an enlightened teacher Tathagata, and he asks people to please try to listen to truth and don't try to listen to falsehood. He says that truth will bring us blessings whilst falsehood will ruin our lives.

There's a website where you can read his teachings online for free. He doesn't sell anything or ask for anything in return, he teaches as his duty. His teachings are available online for free...

Any thoughts ? His website is at the following link...

link: http: //www .tathagata.co.uk

Paul

coberst
02-22-08, 02:38 AM
We comprehend a statement as being true in a given situation when our comprehension of the statement fits our comprehension of the situation closely enough for our purposes.

coberst
02-22-08, 02:56 AM
Hi coberst,

I heard about an enlightened teacher Tathagata, and he asks people to please try to listen to truth and don't try to listen to falsehood. He says that truth will bring us blessings whilst falsehood will ruin our lives.

There's a website where you can read his teachings online for free. He doesn't sell anything or ask for anything in return, he teaches as his duty. His teachings are available online for free...

Any thoughts ? His website is at the following link...

link: http: //www .tathagata.co.uk

Paul


Paul I know nothing about Eastern philosophy/religion. I find that learning Western culture, religion, and philosophy is more than I can handle. I am inclined to say that one should first gain some kind of knowledge about their own culture before seeking knowledge of other cultures. After gaining a foundation in Western culture then it is useful to seek knowledge in another culture and thus have a means for comparing the two and thereby understand both better.

greenberg
02-22-08, 04:38 AM
This is a truth you do not want to hear?
I mean apart from being flippant, it doesn't seem to fit.

At least cosmictraveler is being pragmatic. We have to give him that!

sowhatifit'sdark
02-22-08, 08:43 AM
At least cosmictraveler is being pragmatic. We have to give him that!
I would have said mechanical.

But when I read that his quote about the stocks and money thing, it seems to me he would be glad to hear the truth because he would make a lot of money. I can't see why it is one he would 'prefer not to hear.'

I got irritated because he posted a bunch of references, for us, but seems not to have even read the first one. It was like getting advice from someone who does not follow it.

Me, I'd be all for making a bunch of money today, so I have no problem with his pragmatism.

BeHereNow
02-23-08, 05:34 AM
I do no like the idea of truth being subjective.
We have enough of that already.