I think what Tiassa meant to ask was "What is Satan?" If this were a court he'd be held in contempt for badgering the witnesses.

Is it possible to just ask a question and leave it at that until a response has been offered?

God's "champion" angel who's ego became too large leading him to desire to be greater than God which resulted in a not happy God which lead to a war and the casting out of Satan and 1/3 of the rest of the angels.

He currently roams the earth with the rest of his mineons seeking whom he may devour. His power is only as great as our weakness of will to succumb to his influence. He can do nothing except God allow him to do it. He can only harm those whom God chooses not to protect.

He can take on forms and directly control people as well can the rest of his groupies. I'm sure they still do today though we no longer recognize symtoms as "possesed" though the person may very well be.

Ben

Interesting it is that you bring up the term "possessed". I think at one time or another I have been accused of being such as I did not fall down and mindlessly babble quotes from the bible or mimic some behavior that was expected. (...and no that was not aimed at anyone that posts on this board) Rather it was a statement about how narrow some view those around them when the topic is religion. And this from personal experience in life and not at a computer.

Many and varied are the ways that people have found to seek a high divinity across the span of time. Even the bible makes mention of such in idol worship and the like.

So what gives here? The Catholics have long had a ceremony for the banning of such from people. We hear not of the like in the Protestant religions. Is it that they give up on the idea that if one is "possessed" that the are beyond all hope? Is there some kind of “symptoms” that one such have to be recognized as having a devil or being possessed? If so what are they.

I am not very religious; being forced to go to church was not very encouraging at a young age. But I will listen…

The next time you deign to speak for me, have a clue.

That's just cute. Like baby ducks.

--Tiassa :cool:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/ww3lg.jpg

"possesed"

"And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him."

Superhuman strength would be one idication.

"But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand) and were choked in the sea."

They can talk and do have names. It's just having the authority to force them to admit to such things that's the trick.

The Bible doesn't talk about it much. Devils still mess with our minds when we let them.

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

There's one for you Taken and your views of being a vegitarian.

But also, I found a site on-line posted by a self proclaimed prophet. One of his "prophecies" was "what comes up must come down."

There may very well be cases of possesion as dramatic as the one by Legion (I'm not the person to talk to about that), though I think for the most part they just plant ideas in our heads and those who don't know better assume it came from God or their own reason.

Ben

I'm not speaking for you Tiassa. I'm speaking against you.

Ben

I mean, really ... you've given me one of the biggest grins this site can offer me :D :D :D

Is it that you think we're that stupid? Is it that you are that stupid? I mean what? Dishonest? Idiocy? What can possibly account for the black-and-white dichotomy 'twixt your statement and reality:I'm not speaking for you Tiassa. I'm speaking against you. Ri-ight .... To be completely accurate, then, what the hell did you have in mind when you wrote:I think what Tiassa meant to ask was "What is Satan?" It sounds to me like you're putting words into my mouth. Although I can't understand why you want to clarify what I said by simply repeating the question. All in all, though, if I judge by the detail you attempt to give while stuffing my mouth full of your toxic sentiments, it becomes quite clear that you should save yourself the effort of trying to think. What you've posted in trying to tell everyone what I meant to ask is such an internalized misdirection that it really is pathetic.

I don't know, KalvinB ... if this was a court, to borrow the phrase, you, sir, would be in jail for perjury.

I mean, really ... such an audacious topic post, and now you try to deny the very words you've put to the historical record? What, did you hire someone to write this topic post, too?

How stupid do you think people are, KalvinB? Are they really dumb enough to not notice when you're lying through your shiny Christian teeth? What would Jesus say about that, KalvinB? What will Jesus say when you're called to account for the lies you've floated in his name? What will Jesus say when you tally up the credit of his spirit that you've squandered on lies and petty arrogance?

Nice show, boy.

The next time you choose to speak for someone, get your head out of your ass long enough to at least wipe the stains off your lips.

Otherwise, just stay in your corner.

--Tiassa :cool:

Anyone else not sure why I reposted Tiassa's question?

Ben

I mean, first you did, then you didn't, now you want people's opinions on why you did?I'm not speaking for you Tiassa. Do you remember writing that?

--Tiassa :cool:

I didn't think it was that hard of a concept.

Ben

Like I said originally: The next time you deign to speak for me, get yourself a clue, boy.

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

KalvinB,

Thank you for the descriptions. Are there others? Curiosity is something that always drives me. Appearently I can safey conclude that I am not possessed, being as I fit none of the catagories. I seem to be just me. A normal everyday guy.

And why is it that when you don't fit the mold of what some religous zealot thinks you should that it comes down to such. This accusation of being demon possessed because you do not agree with what ever tennants that their particular religion calls out for? It really seems like a cop out to me. (The easy way out)

And I still speak against you Tiassa. Did you want to step out of the carausel or keep going?

Wet1:

It's right up there with telling someone they aren't really a believer.

If you're possessed it'll be quite apparent. Determining whether a doctrine is false can only be determined by knowing the truth. And that is pretty much what we're trying to figure out.

Ben

And I still speak against you Tiassa. Did you want to step out of the carausel or keep going?Umm ... if you speak against me, then why pretend to speak for me? Are there not enough demons in your world to slay in your daydreams that you have to invent them right in front of us?

Further words escape me. I'm happy to step off the carousel so long as you're not progressing to further stupidity. Hired goons? And now this? What's next, KalvinB? I'd say the carousel is your own damn issue to settle.

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

God's "champion" angel who's ego became too large leading him to desire to be greater than God which resulted in a not happy God which lead to a war and the casting out of Satan and 1/3 of the rest of the angels.

Seems God has quite a robust ego himself. Maybe He didn't like the competion.

commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Haha...Is that a biblical passage or do you just own a butcher shop?

As though "evil" can be wrapped up in a single package and labelled Satan. How convenient for the church...

Oh and mental illness is just that...an ILLNESS, not "demons" you prophesizing nut.

Isn't it so that this god created 'evil' himself?

He created the Garden of Eden with this 'evil' Snake in it which lead Eve to the so called Tree of wisdom. Why did god create this Tree of wisdom if he didn't want Adam and Eve to eat from it?
Rather peculiar, don't you think.

By 'creating' his holy world. he 'created' 'evil' right within from the very first start. Why the hell did he do so? Explanation please...

And why did he have to send a son to save the people he himself 'created' (after his own likeness), from their sins? Couldn't he himself come down from his holy chair in heaven?

How was it even possible in the first place that this angel had a bigger ego then this god himself to stand up against him
and 'create' his own little group of fallen angels?

If this god really 'created' this world, how could he allow this to happen then? And why is this satan so wonderful lucky in his 'satanic' works here in this world then?

God wants to have a good laugh and wants to color himself? On behalf of his own 'creation'???

Come on...what a bullshit.

No god or Satan what so ever. Just Life and what you yourself make from it...

Where is this good, loving, god almighty then? He sure does a good job messing up in this world if you take a look at all the holy wars.

Guess that is the work of satan then? What crap...

Perhaps you can answer without the everlasting quotes by a book written by humans.

Thank you.

Evil is not created. It is the abscense of good.

God created the possibility for evil by making laws. When there is a law condemning an action it is implied that it is possible to do the forbidden action.

There's a difference between ALLOWING and MAKING.

Consider this, if there were no law forbidding murder I could kill you and suffer no consequence.

On earth our will is very weak and sometimes chooses good and sometimes evil. But mostly evil. In heaven our will will be repaired and we will consistantly choose good. There will still be laws so there potential for evil is there but we always will to do and actually do the good.

Which if you've read Aristotle would make you a truly virtuous person.

Anywayz, we've been over this already months ago.

Ben

Originally posted by KalvinB
Evil is not created. It is the abscense of good.

God created the possibility for evil by making laws. When there is a law condemning an action it is implied that it is possible to do the forbidden action.

There's a difference between ALLOWING and MAKING.


Then by your definition I get out tht evil is allowed not made by God, then why it should be different with good. Good deeds are allowed and not stritcly made by God, so as evil are. I can choose to give to sm charity or to kill smbody. And when it will be a good deed or not. I can give to charity with selfish reasons, and I can kill a man defending my life.


"In heaven our will will be repaired and we will consistantly choose good. There will still be laws so there potential for evil is there but we always will to do and actually do the good. "

Hmmmmm. interesting, have you ever been in heaven tht you can say so. And if you were right, then I would not prefer to live in "YOUR" heaven. I prefer freedom. Freedom of choice and actions. I' ll better stay here on earth. But I'm glad tht I wont go to your heaven couse it's merely a cristian concept. You shall be rewarded for your good deeds and go to hell for bad ones. It is so primitive. If people die they only go to one place - back to life.
Never-ending circle of life. What will I do in heaven for all enternety. To my mind it would be rather boring. Never ending relaxation- it was good for ancient time people, when their lives were allways in danger and they worked hard all time. But now we can relax also here down on earth. Just go to a seaside and meditate. I promise tht you will get relaxed. But to meditate for all enternity. Sorry but no. I prefer action. I prefer freedom. I prefer beauty of earth. I prefer spice of life. So your promised heaven for what we all should stream is a hell to me.
Avatar.

KalvinB,
You have made a statement that I feel I must question. It may be redundant, as I have mentioned before I have not frequented this forum much. If it is redundant I ask your patience in this.

The statement I question is:

On earth our will is very weak and sometimes chooses good and sometimes evil. But mostly evil. In heaven our will will be repaired and we will consistantly choose good. There will still be laws so there potential for evil is there but we always will to do and actually do the good.


If our will is to be "repaired" then what happened that this was not done before? From the given text I am to understand that Satan and 1/3 of the angels who were followers were cast out. Why did they have this freedom to choose if our will is to be adjusted? I am afraid I do not understand.

Avatar:

In heaven you do make choices. You just always make the right one. Just like on earth you always make choices except (without the help of God) you always make the wrong one.

You know there are some choices where no option is either good or evil. Such as picking out a candy bar. What choice you make then is predetermined by past experience with the options or your reluctance to try something new.

What you want is "freedom to sin" which is absurd. Why do you want to do evil? In heaven you will have the ability to do evil as there obviously will be laws but you will never want to break those laws because you'll recognize that God isn't holding back like Adam and Eve were lead to believe. Basically you will choose to do good because you will fully understand why it is good.

Wet1:

God lets us have our way much of the time so we'll appreciate him more. Adam and Eve who had everything still wanted more. 80 years in this shit hole ought to convince anyone that makes it to heaven that God is indeed not holding anything good back from us.

Like I said in "Life of Virtue" sometimes what we want because we think it's good will in fact cause us harm. Adam and Eve learned that the hard way.

Ben

What crazy babbling. So god created laws?? To do good and evil?? What a crap...And in heaven there are laws also but then only good laws?? How do you come to this?? Ever been there, in your heaven??

And as I asked before...your god created Adam and Eve, didn't he?? So why did he create this so called Tree of wisdom, so the first two man like figures could do evil right away...
Isn't your god only good and didn't he create man like figures after his own image?? That raises a few questions...see post above.

What a bullshit. Just like the so called fallen angels. All excuses by the godbelievers to do evil and judge their fellow humans.

So when you don't believe in the good god almighty, you are a sinner, who by gods good laws goes right down on the highway to hell. But you say that there are only good laws in heaven. That doesn't sound logical to me. Don't do evil to any one and don't kill any one. Just speak up for what I think about it. And I am raised by the words of your bible. But got rid of it as soon as I could. Does that make me an evil sinner then??

And as far as commiting murders concern...Look at all the killing in the name of your god. Guess you think that are 'good' murders??

Yeah, yeah...

Have a nice day.

Everyone is an evil sinner.

Just because someone finds an excuse to kill doesn't make it actually okay. If I kick your ass and then tell the judge it's because you were wearing a funny hat, does that make it okay?

Ben

You've made a good point, KalvinB, that everyone is a sinner. We would differ from there, I think, in the nature of sin and its legitimacy as a concept, but yes, you have a point. And you've even provided an example that speaks to something which you find relevant to the topic (I'm reading back through the topic, but all the connections I'm drawing to this are tenuous, but that's just me). At any rate, I wanted to ask, of ass-kickings:

* What if you kick his ass because the issues you bear compel you to not limit your actions to account for others?

It's just that "funny hat", while functional in the example, is a little bit soft to enter the central question of whether or not there is a legitimate reason to kick asses. So, in terms of your example, can I at least ask by what circumstances someone might find to kill/kick ass the act becomes proper? What are those boundaries? I agree in what context I can that we're all sinners; where some are compelled to rely on the grace of God, I don't see the harm in figuring out those boundaries.

We've fought quite a bit lately: In terms of the propriety of a physical ass-kicking, conventional mores are quite clear--we're not supposed to go beating people. What about other forms of harassment and violence?

Beyond Bible thumping, beyond faith blankets, beyond shields of self-centered redemptionism, these are the critical issues of a religion, the functional issues. Doctrine is doctrine, and people taught to believe something at the stake of eternity tend to find ways to accommodate doctrine. Thus, understanding that people are, after all, individuals, what is the functional or practical impact of such an issue? How does an idea play out in relation to its worldly application? And you've put one of those issues up in front of us; it's a compelling one.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Guess you think that are 'good' murders??I think when it comes to God, the idea of a good or bad murder doesn't really matter. It's been asserted here at Sciforums before that the Inquisitors were redeemed, despite their murders, because of their faith that this was the right course to follow. It would seem to me, then, that any murder a person could convince themselves was "good" in relation to their faith in God turns out to be a "good" murder.

I'm all for such relativism in its most educated employment; I haven't faith in education to meet that standard. But murder wasn't quite murder when the idea of willfully killing a member of the same species for individual reasons. In that sense, it wasn't quite immoral. It's taken thousands of years and a plethora of social, religious, and logical demands to render murder immoral. It would seem, then, that people are naturally conditioned to kill, which must make it good since it is how God made them.

In the end, there exists any number of ways to view the idea of a good or bad murder. In the end, I also think that we all know that murder is bad. It's what we decide we need in the world that compels us to justify such things.

Two cents or so on the idea of good murders.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

everyone is a sinner or just christians. The dogmat of a original sin is only [i think] met in christian mythology. In my belief system there are no sins . So I can't be a sinner, right? :)
And if you want to respond smth like:
Mine God is the one true one and you are wrong, but do not proove tht I'm wrong, then I think tht it is acceptable for me to not take you seriously.


Here is what Church of All Words say about sin.
"Rather than focusing on "right" and "wrong," whose definitions will vary from person to person, religion to religion, and from one cultural phase to another, we look at the world in terms of cause and effect. If you hurt someone, you have damaged a relationship that will not be as viable for you in the future. If you abuse the planet,
you will live in a damaged environment. We are responsible for our actions. It is not our role to pass judgment on one another. We believe that everything is interconnected and the events that occur in one's life as a result of ignorant or harmful action are usually judgment or "punishment" enough. If someone comes to bring harm into our own sphere, we will do what we can to stop them and teach them something different. We do not believe punishment has a lot of value in changing behavior, but teaching does. The Wiccan Rede, "If it harm none, do what thou wilt," means that we are responsible for our own wills, and our responsibility includes avoiding harm to self and others. "

"everyone is a sinner or just christians."

Sin is defined as the breaking of a moral law. Transgressions are something like running a red light.

So if you don't live under a moral law then you could not judge yourself a sinner. However, those that are aware of a moral law will judge you otherwise.

Because people spend so much time justifying their wicked actions pretending that because they are "justified" they are okay, the "good" seems abstract and relative but I think it people excecised their reason to discover the "good" they would actually find it because I think the "good" is an objective idea.

Just like it's easy to imagine hell and difficult to articulate heaven (even the Bible doesn't describe it much), it's very easy to know what's wrong but difficult to define the good as we don't have the vocabulary or examples to compare it to. They aren't always opposites.

"Original Sin" should be more around the lines of "inherently weak will."

The difference between going to heaven and hell is forgiveness. Forgiveness can only be acheieved by asking the right person. If I kick your ass for wearing a funny hat and then ask your brother to forgive me, am I really forgiven?

Ben

about moral laws you are right, but I don't like the idea about "inherently weak will". [original sin:)] . Do you think tht every new born has commited sins. It sounds unreal.


"If I kick your ass for wearing a funny hat and then ask your brother to forgive me, am I really forgiven? "

You said it yourself. If you bomb Afghanistan, do you need to appologize to God or those people.[not a fine example though couse I don't agree the taliban policy:D]
I think tht praying God for forgivness is stupid. Better do smth good instead, not moan on your knees about your sins.
I think tht what you are doing is more asking for forgivness to yourself not smone other. Because noone says you were wrong, you know it yourself and if you can't justify it, you seek for forgivness in yourself, only put a wrong adress to your packagge.

Have you ever read the Lord's Prayer?

"forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

There are sins against other people and sins againt God. Murdering in the name of God woud be one example where you have two parties to ask forgiveness of and neither are obligated to give it to you without requiring something from you first like your life as the thief did on the cross. He accepted he had sinned and accepted the fact that he is required to accept his punishment. Most people today act like being forgiven aleviates all responsibility for the sin. You may get out of hell but you won't always get out of the temporal punishment. Part of repentance is accepting responsibility.

Since only with the help of God can you do good it might be a good idea to ask him to help.

Ben

New borns are some of the most self centered people. Just because God or we may not punish them for being sinful (as we understand they don't know better) it doesn't make them any less sinful.

Ben

I feel strong enough to do good without any assistance from Gods or anyone else.
And evil as well, if I want:), not tht I want but I'm able to, so as everybody else.
Why to accept smbodyes punishment Ben?
If I did and I think tht what I did was right, I do not need to receive any punishment if smbody else thinks that tht was evil.
It is the same as Allah appeared before me told tht I was bad not harming americans and tht I should blow up myself and a couple of dozen americans with me to go to heaven.
get the point. and it may not be smth so extreme as killing.

Why all this punishment Ben. Does christian God know nothing better thn tht. If so thn I'm sorry for all christians.

punish, punish, punish, punish,punish, punish, punish, punish
sounds a bit cruel don't you think.
is punishing an evil deed, Ben?

Since only with the help of God can you do good it might be a good idea to ask him to help.That's a bit broad, don't you think? A general condemnation of those who think differently than you?

And please, KalvinB, anything but a denial, or don't bother.

--Tiassa :cool:

What's to deny but your rediculous conclusions?

Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean he doesn't have any influence on you.

Ben

What's to deny but your rediculous conclusions?You've denied writing things that are cited right in front of you. :rolleyes: Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean he doesn't have any influence on you.And people wonder why I pay so much attention to Christians? You are absolutely correct: just because I don't believe in your God doesn't meant that God doesn't affect me. It affects me daily, when it compels people to be unkind toward each other, to seek advantage and profit instead of justice, and to lie in pursuit of their own notion of victory. I can think of a couple of people who it affected so greatly as to steal their lives with a firebomb; I actually got a call today about a friend's younger brother who has just been arrested for murder; strange, eh? Just because some arrogant chap at a party didn't believe in R's god doesn't mean that god didn't affect him; the moral values transmitted by that God compelled R to kill someone in a dispute over how to talk to a woman. His manner was noble and inspired by God, but his method of implementation was the living result of that faith experience.

In the meantime, KalvinB:That's a bit broad, don't you think? A general condemnation of those who think differently than you? why don't you offer your thoughts on the question at hand? Or is this one of those occasions where we're supposed to look at a situation and see exactly what you see?

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

well said Tiassa

We know Tiassa, we know.

Avatar:
Did you want to take a stab at the actually meaing of what I said or did you just want to play cheerleader?

Ben

Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean he doesn't have any influence on you.
If I don't believe in God, to me He doesn't exist. How could I consider Him to have influence on me if He doesn't exist? Instead of trying to understand other people's views and then adding your own comments, you simply insist that your view is right and everyone should think as you do. It really doesn't go over well...

I am by no means attempting to push my thinking or beliefs on you...but for the sake of argument I would like to say that the earth was in fact round even in the absence of anyone believing it was...and the moon pushed the water up on the beach long before anyone knew of gravity.

I suppost that's true. But one could also take the analogy of the Earth being round and saying that everyone who believed the Earth was flat was proved wrong. Back then, people could have sworn that if you sailed too far you would fall off the Earth, just as people today could swear there is a God. The arguement you have presented really goes both ways and it will not be resolved until there is undeniable proof for God's existance, just like the undeniable proof of satellite images and round-the-world sailing trips prooves the Earth is round.

Did that make sense or am I just rambling? It's 11 pm so it's getting hard to tell ;)

Lets look for gravity before we knew it.....was the water being pulled up on the beach by something? Yes. Did an apple fall down as opposed to up? Yes. Did the moon stay in view even though there seemed to be no strings attached or foundation holding it up? Yes. With no knowledge of gravity or how it worked we could still safely say there was some force at work we could not see or define...correct?

Let me look for God with out knowing Him...Do I have a will to survive or prevail beyond my physical means to do so? Yes. Do I have a longing for and desire for the good of myself and others beyond my physical controll? Yes. Do I will to sacrifice my own survival instinct for the safety and joy of others? Yes. Do I persist to give thought to others needs at the price of my own desires and comforts? Yes. Even with no knowledge of God or how He works I can still safely say there is a force at work I can not see or define.

If you kick my ass, I will kick you back immediately. So in that sense I am a real sinner.

And after that I make it up with you again. For I am no violent human and I don't pray to god for forgiveness. If I do have trouble with another human, I try to talk about the problem.

If that doesn't work out, well, then I leave it be. Perhaps I am mad for a little while, but that goes by. Just leave it alone, ignore the human who you have trouble with.

And as far as murders concern...I disagree on that with you. Because there is never ever any excuse for taking the life of another human being.

That is not for some invented god you christians want to believe in so bad, to decide who should be 'forgiven'. And who is going to be send to 'heaven' or 'hell'.

It is a matter of living your life as good as you can in companion with your fellow humans. It is up to you who you argue and fight with and how you handle that in your life here on Earth.

No 'heaven' or 'hell' what so ever.

That godbelieving of you christians is a pityfull excuse to preach doom and mayhem to the non godbeliefers who just live their lifes.

A newborn baby is a sinner?? Man, go to a shrink to let yourself be fixed again, for you are losing it now. Losing it pretty soon also. Look at what you've written...What a crap.

A newborn baby is a sinner. So you were born in sin? Of course...sex and intercourse are evil.

How could I forget about that... Guess you won't do that ever in your life. No children for you? Or do you think it goes the same way as is written down in your bible? With Mary, mother of jesus?
Guess again please...

"So you were born in sin? Of course...sex and intercourse are evil."

So you say. I havn't.

So you think selfishness isn't a sin?

Ben

The most selfish humans are among you, godbelievers.

Originally posted by Banshee
The most selfish humans are among you, godbelievers.

objection----that should be "christiangodbeleievers",
of course I could be wrong, I don't know all the religions, but we can be completely sure only about christians.
or you know some other?
Bye!

*Originally posted by KalvinB
God's "champion" angel who's ego became too large leading him to desire to be greater than God which resulted in a not happy God which lead to a war and the casting out of Satan and 1/3 of the rest of the angels.*

I'm not too sure that satan was ever an angel.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
(John 8:44, KJV).

Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
(Isaiah 54:16, KJV).

My guess is that satan deceived the one-third of angels, too.

*Originally posted by wet1
The Catholics have long had a ceremony for the banning of such from people. We hear not of the like in the Protestant religions. Is it that they give up on the idea that if one is "possessed" that the are beyond all hope?*

The Catholics want to make it look like it is a gigantic chore to cast out demons so people will quit doing it.
Everyone else just casts them out.
No big deal.

*Originally posted by KalvinB
If you're possessed it'll be quite apparent.*

Not necessarily.
It will be quite apparent eventually, but may people have demons of confusion or some such that makes conversation a little difficult.
Others have spirits of infirmity, which increases their probability of getting ill.

*Originally posted by Carrington
As though "evil" can be wrapped up in a single package and labelled Satan.*

Good point.
There are many such packages and they are called demons.
Not to mention evil that people can think up on their own.

*Oh and mental illness is just that...an ILLNESS, not "demons"*

There are few "mentally ill" people who don't have demons.

*Originally posted by Banshee
By 'creating' his holy world. he 'created' 'evil' right within from the very first start.*

You're right, but I'm surprised that you would be quoting the Bible yourself.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(Isaiah 45:7, KJV).

The word "good" doesn't mean anything without evil.
Luckily the word "eternal" doesn't mean anything without temporary.

*And why is this satan so wonderful lucky in his 'satanic' works here in this world then?*

Lucky? You call ending up in the lake of fire, lucky?

*Originally posted by avatar
I prefer freedom. Freedom of choice and actions. I' ll better stay here on earth.*

I'm sure you would actually prefer that.
What you'll actually end up with is the lake of fire.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:15, KJV).

*Originally posted by tiassa
It's been asserted here at Sciforums before that the Inquisitors were redeemed, despite their murders, because of their faith that this was the right course to follow.*

By whom? Lawdog?
Since when is Lawdog's assertion proof of anything?
The inquisitors are highly unlikely to have been redeemed unless they repented.
No one gets to use to use the Nuremberg defense, namely, "I vas chust followink orders."

*Originally posted by avatar
Church of All Words*

LOL
The long name is presumably "Church of All Words no Action."

*Why all this punishment...
punish, punish, punish, punish,punish, punish, punish, punish *

What "all this punishment?"

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
(Psalms 37:20, KJV).

Smoke, that's it.

*Originally posted by Xelios
If I don't believe in God, to me He doesn't exist.*

So, if you don't believe in buses, you can just step out on the road in front of one?

*The arguement you have presented really goes both ways and it will not be resolved until there is undeniable proof for God's existance*

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
(Revelation 14:10, KJV).

No problem.

SATAN

SATAN WAS THE FIRST ANGEL LOVED ABOVE ALL OTHERS!!!!!!


I DON'T KNOW WHAT PLANET YOUR FROM BUT......

SEX RULES!!!!!!!!


Patman

Let me guess.

QG13 was the first girl to offer you sex?

Oh, yeah...comments like that really sound like a man of God speaking with the authority, conviction, and annointing of the Holy Spirit! Sheeeeeeeeesh Tony.
Do you derive some evil pleasure from belittling and takeing underhanded blows at peoples esteem and heart? Does it make you feel important? Do you feel vindicated in some way?

Murder in the form of personal persecution? "I say if you call a man a fool..."........mean anything to you Tony?

I'm just not feeling the love here......are you Patman?

You must think that Patman is the first young guy to think that sex is really great with the first girl to walk by and spread her legs.

And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,
Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,
In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:
And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.
...
He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;
Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.
(Proverbs 7:7-23, KJV).

Based on that, I think it's happened before.

Well Sampson was far older, wiser and closer to God and He fell prey to a woman, so what basis do you convict Patman on?

Just because he has a girlfriend we can now discount him? He is judged and found wanting on that basis? His thoughts are no longer his own, his feelings not sinceare?

A young man reveals to you that he has been in such desperation as to contemplate takeing his own life and this is your best course of response or interaction with him?

What does his relationship status or his sexual activitys have to do with him as a human who you could have taken an opportunity to councle or uplift with hope and instead have went straight for his personal jugular?

Oh you are just led by sex...you are just void of thought process do to pot....oh you must just be possesed...
You can find the most damned reasons to simply write people off instead offering any consideration or comfort as Jesus instructed.

If you want to claim to be of Jesus then put forth a little effort to do the job assigned to you instead of looking a way out of it.

1 Cor 9:19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
1 Cor 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
1 Cor 9:21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
1 Cor 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

*Originally posted by Taken
Well Sampson was far older, wiser and closer to God and He fell prey to a woman, so what basis do you convict Patman on?*

Who's convicting Patman?

*Just because he has a girlfriend we can now discount him? He is judged and found wanting on that basis? His thoughts are no longer his own, his feelings not sinceare?*

No, his mind will be wandering, first to QG13, later to suicide.

*A young man reveals to you that he has been in such desperation as to contemplate takeing his own life and this is your best course of response or interaction with him?*

At least I've told him what's going on.
You're just arguing for the sake of arguing, or are you feeling a little stressed out, too?
I have left out expressing concern for you.
I sometimes forget that in the face of continuous attack.
How are you doing, anyway?

*What does his relationship status or his sexual activitys have to do with him as a human who you could have taken an opportunity to councle or uplift with hope and instead have went straight for his personal jugular?*

What jugular?
Do you actually think he's the first guy who thinks sex feels good?

*Oh you are just led by sex...you are just void of thought process do to pot....oh you must just be possesed...
You can find the most damned reasons to simply write people off instead offering any consideration or comfort as Jesus instructed.*

I can understand why your posts might be a little random, seeing as you just gave birth.
BTW, how's the little tyke, and who's looking after him while you're gabbing on the computer?

*If you want to claim to be of Jesus then put forth a little effort to do the job assigned to you instead of looking a way out of it. *

One of the main jobs is to withstand the devil.
I think I'm doing OK against one of his staunchest supporters, i.e. you.

Satan quoted scripture, too, and with the same intent as you.
However, as I said earlier, you may be feeling a little stressed.
I hope you aren't, but that would mean that you're on the warpath deliberately.
i suspect that you are feeling a little out of sorts, though.

Well unfortunatly for you I haven't given birth, I had an ultrasound. So you will have to continue to dismiss me due stricktly to hormones still. But atleast you still have as reason to, just as you dismiss all people as unworthy of mercy.
You are ill prepared to battle the devil. It is he who wants to see the lost find only persecution and rejection in God so that they will not draw near to Him.
"Who of you if their child requested a fish would give him a stone?"

1 Cor 9:21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
1 Cor 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

THAT is not the word of satan but The Word of God.

2 Cor 3:16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
You turn people away from Him. You speak as though your words should be clear, but only God can lift the vail. Stand to the side and point the people towards the Only One who can give them life and understanding.

Matt 12:30 "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
Matt 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Matt 12:32 "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Matt 12:33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.
Matt 12:34 "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.
Matt 12:35 "The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.
Matt 12:36 "But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
Matt 12:37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

I have time and time appealed to you thru the words of Jesus himself, and yet you still ignore it and take no account for your treatment and rebukeing of people. Will you stand in judgement and answer for the hungry and lost and weak that you caused to turn away from the truth by your condemnation and rejection? Will you be able to then discount people as unworthy of grace and mercy due to your judgements of them not being worthy? If God asks why you did not show mercy and offer hope to a lost and dieing person will you say, well they were deluded by pot or hormones so they were not worth wasteing the gift on? My time was better spent loveing and exaulting the righteouse, I had no need to love my enemy?

I have time and time appealed to you thru the words of Jesus himself, and yet you still ignore it and take no account for your treatment and rebukeing of people.Look, Taken, it's not that he is intentionally betraying his faith. Some months ago, around May or so, I think, I decided that the only way his Christianity works is on the presupposition that disrespect and rebuke are the primary purpose of Christianity. The foci of his faith orbit around his need and ability to speak ill of people, treat them without respect, and condemn, condemn, condemn. I think he honestly believes this is what Christianity is for. It's really all he's ever shown us at Sciforums.

It sounds more like HJ than Christianity.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

I know the bible very well. Therefor I REFUSE to quote by IT. Because it are all stories. No truth what so ever. It is where you holy sheep want to believe in.

Avatar, you are right, it doesn't count for Buddishm. A kind of religion yes...but so very different from the godbelieving 'religion'.

Tony, quote, quote, quote, babble, babble, babble...

I've made them all up just for you...

Then you have to quote some more, which you like so much.

I am a big 'sinner', never ever will I entry your holy heaven, seems quite dull to me.

Have a good christmas...

*Originally posted by Taken
Well unfortunatly for you I haven't given birth*

How is that unfortunate for me?
Your thread (#6) must be sort of a counting your chickens before they hatch thing?

*So you will have to continue to dismiss me due stricktly to hormones still.*

My dismissing you has nothing to do with hormones, it's strictly due to doctrine, or more correctly, absence thereof.

*But atleast you still have as reason to, just as you dismiss all people as unworthy of mercy.*

What's this "unworthy of mercy" thing?

*You are ill prepared to battle the devil.*

Maybe, but you're great for practice in the meantime.

*It is he who wants to see the lost find only persecution and rejection in God so that they will not draw near to Him.
"Who of you if their child requested a fish would give him a stone?"*

Why are you handing out stones then?

*THAT is not the word of satan but The Word of God.*

We're getting somewhere.

* You speak as though your words should be clear, but only God can lift the vail. Stand to the side and point the people towards the Only One who can give them life and understanding.*

You mean you?

*I have time and time appealed to you thru the words of Jesus himself, and yet you still ignore it and take no account for your treatment and rebukeing of people.*

Who's rebuking people?

*Will you be able to then discount people as unworthy of grace and mercy due to your judgements of them not being worthy?*

Quite honestly, no.
Luckily, I haven't been judging anyone of not being worthy.

*If God asks why you did not show mercy and offer hope to a lost and dieing person will you say, well they were deluded by pot or hormones so they were not worth wasteing the gift on?*

So you admit that you are deluded by hormones?
I'm going to assume that you are not dying, since you did (I think) at one time say that Jesus is Lord.

*My time was better spent loveing and exaulting the righteouse, I had no need to love my enemy? *

You're admitting to being my enemy?
Well, you're forgiven.

*Originally posted by tiassa
I decided that the only way his Christianity works is on the presupposition that disrespect and rebuke are the primary purpose of Christianity.*

Well, if you decided that, who am I to stop you?

*Originally posted by Banshee
I am a big 'sinner', never ever will I entry your holy heaven, seems quite dull to me.*

Being a puff of smoke is more exciting?

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
(Psalms 37:20, KJV).

How am I counting my chickens before they hatch? From day 29 this life with-in me had a heart that beat. He already is. As for the next 4 months, it was God who gave life to the child with-in me and He is more than able to sustain it.

Yes I have hormones as do you, but as with every other aspect of the physical man, I strive to keep it in submission to the inner man, the conscience, the Spirit which is of God.

If being a mother, the recipient and nuturer of life makes me mercifull and loveing, than Thank God for that among all the other many many blessings He has bestowed upon me.

*Originally posted by Taken
How am I counting my chickens before they hatch?*

Oh Wow.
"Hatching" is a highly technical term which refers to the chicken actually being out and about, rather than still inside the egg.

*Yes I have hormones as do you,*

Well, in the strictest technical sense, yes.
In reality, your hormones are waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy different from mine.

*but as with every other aspect of the physical man, I strive to keep it in submission to the inner man, the conscience, the Spirit which is of God.*

I'm glad to hear that.
I was beginning to think it was going just about opposite.
But hey, you've got hormones.

*If being a mother, the recipient and nuturer of life makes me mercifull and loveing, than Thank God for that among all the other many many blessings He has bestowed upon me. *

I'm going to have get used to some of these mood swings.
Thank you God, for doing all that for Taken.

Actually I hve the same sparkling personality as when I am not pregnant.:D
Technically since I am pregnant with a male child, I have higher levels of testosterone in my blood, since the babys blood circulates thru me. There by if anything I am more "manly" as opposed to all feminine and frilly feeling. :O) Which I assume by your attitude you view women as air headed and unworthy of any regard in matters of importance. There is much to be said of an emotional species, since Love is an emotion. Might I also add that eve looked satan himself in the eye, the master of deception, and yet she argued before being over come by his words. Adam on the other hand, in your beloved KJV account, simply opened his mouth and disobeyed God because a woman told him to.
Peace!

Not a puff of smoke Tony...Just going back to the Cosmos.:)

Like all humans do...even YOU. Guess you'll be surprised then.

By the way, there is a nice post for you and your friend Sir Loone at the thread 'Tony1, Sir Loone and everyone else, chime in...'

Have fun quoting.:p

*Originally posted by Taken
Actually I hve the same sparkling personality as when I am not pregnant.*

Sparkling?
You mean like tracer bullets in the night sky?

*I have higher levels of testosterone in my blood, since the babys blood circulates thru me.*

This is some new kind of biology I've never heard of before.

*There by if anything I am more "manly" as opposed to all feminine and frilly feeling.*

OK, you may have a point there.
I have noticed a definite warlike feel to your personality.

*Which I assume by your attitude you view women as air headed and unworthy of any regard in matters of importance.*

It's not you I'm dismissing, dearie, it's your ideas.

*Might I also add that eve looked satan himself in the eye, the master of deception, and yet she argued before being over come by his words.*

She went over like wet spaghetti.
She only spoke a single sentence and cratered.
Women have been making up for that lack of speech ever since.

* Adam on the other hand, in your beloved KJV account, simply opened his mouth and disobeyed God because a woman told him to.*

Like he said, it was all God's fault.

... God saw that it was good.
(Genesis 1:25, KJV).

After he made Eve, he said something else...

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
(Genesis 1:31, KJV).

Adam believed that.

Sparkling?
You mean like tracer bullets in the night sky?
Yes tony, that's exactly what she means... :confused:

You're batting about .001 so far, so don't be surprised if you don't get that either.

BTW, in case I haven't said it before, Merry Christmas.

I don't follow baseball anyway.

Batting .001 is really bad.

Yep...knocking out those stinging missles you are extruding in everyones dirrection.
Merry Christmas.
No thats not new biology thats old biology...ever had a baby? That might be why it is new to you.
I am a warrior, a warrior of God. Fighting evil and oppresion with the good word of love mercy and the passion of Jesus Christ.
Peace!

Having a nice christmas day? Sitting safe and sound behind your keyboard? Having all the luxury you need?

Especially for you:

A CHRISTMAS STORY

Pa never had much compassion for the lazy or those who
squandered their means and then never had enough
for the necessities. But for those who were genuinely in need, his
heart was as big as all outdoors.
It was from himt hat I learned the greatest joy in life comes from giving, not from receiving.

It was Christmas Eve 1881. I was fifteen years old and feeling
like the world had caved in on me because there just hadn't
been enough money to buy me the rifle that I'd wanted so bad
that year for Christmas.

We did the chores early that night for some reason. I just figured
Pa wanted a little extra time so we could read in the Bible. So
after supper was over I took my boots off and stretched out in
front of the fireplace and waited for Pa to get down the old
Bible. I was still feeling sorry for myself and, to be honest, I
wasn't in much of a mood to read Scriptures.

But Pa didn't get the Bible; instead he bundled up and went
outside. I couldn't figure it out because we had already done
all the chores. I didn't worry about it long though; I was too
busy wallowing in self-pity.

Soon Pa came back in. It was a cold clear night out and there
was ice in his beard. "Come on, Matt," he said. "Bundle up
good, it's cold out tonight."

I was really upset then. Not only wasn't I getting the rifle for
Christmas, now Pa was dragging me out in the cold, and for
no earthly reason that I could see. We'd already done all the
chores, and I couldn't think of anything else that needed
doing, especially not on a night like this.

But I knew Pa was not very patient at one dragging one's feet when he'd told them to do something, so I got up and put
my boots back on and got my cap, coat, and mittens. Ma gave me a mysterious smile as I opened the door to leave the house. Something was up, but I didn't know what.

Outside, I became even more dismayed. There in front of the house was the work team, already hitched to the big sled.
Whatever it was we were going to do wasn't going to be a
short, quick, little job. I could tell. We never hitched up the big
sled unless we were going to haul a big load. Pa was already up on the seat, reins in hand. I reluctantly climbed up beside him. The cold was already biting at me. I wasn't happy.

When I was on, Pa pulled the sled around the house and stopped in front of the woodshed. He got off and I followed.
"I think we'll put on the high sideboards," he said. "Here, help me."

The high sideboards! It had been a bigger job than I wanted to do with just the low sideboards on, but whatever it was we were going to do would be a lot bigger with the high sideboards on.

When we had exchanged the sideboards Pa went into the woodshed and came out with an armload of wood---the wood I'd spent all summer hauling down from the mountain, and then all fall sawing into blocks and splitting. What was he doing?

Finally I said something. "Pa," I asked, "what are you doing?" "

You been by the Widow Jensen's lately?" he asked.

The Widow Jensen lived about two miles down the road. Her
husband had died a year or so before and left her with three
children, the oldest being eight.

Sure, I'd been by, but so what? "Yeah," I said, "why?"

"I rode by just today," Pa said. "Little Jakey was out digging
around in the woodpile trying to find a few chips. They're out
of wood, Matt."

That was all he said and then he turned and wenback into the woodshed for another armload of wood. I followed him. We loaded the sled so high that I began to wonder if the horses would be able to pull it. Finally, Pa called a halt to our loading, then we went to the smoke house and Pa took down a big ham and a side of bacon. He handed them to me and told me to put them in the sled and wait.
When he returned he was carrying a sack of flour over his right
shoulder and a smaller sack of something in his left hand.

"What's in the little sack?" I asked.

"Shoes. They're out of shoes. Little Jakey just had gunny sacks wrapped around his feet when he was out in the woodpile this morning. I got the children a little candy too. It just wouldn't be Christmas without a little candy."

We rode the two miles to Widow Jensen's pretty much in silence. I tried to think through what Pa was doing. We didn't have much by worldly standards. Of course, we did have a big woodpile, though most of what was left now was still in the form of logs that I would have to saw into blocks and split before we could use it. We also hadmeat and flour, so we could spare that, but I knewwe didn't have any money, so why was Pa buying them shoes and candy? Really, why was he doing any of this?Widow
Jensen had closer neighbors than us. It shouldn't have been our concern.

We came in from the blind side of the Jensen house and unloaded the wood as quietly as possible, and then we took the meat and flour and shoes to the door. We knocked.

The door opened a crack and a timid voice said, "Who is it?"

"Lucas Miles, Ma'am, and my son, Matt. Could we come infor a bit?"

Widow Jensen opened the door and let us in. She had a blanket wrapped around her shoulders. The children were wrapped in another and were sitting in front of the fireplace by a very small fire that hardly gave off any heat at all.
Widow Jensen fumbled with a match and finally lit the lamp.

"We brought you a few things, Ma'am," Pa said and set down the sack of flour. I put the meat on the table. Then Pa handed her the sack that had the shoes in it. She opened it hesitantly and took the shoes out one pair at a time.
There was a pair for her and one for each of the
children--- sturdy shoes, the best, shoes that would last. I watched her carefully. She bit her lower lip to keep it from trembling and then tears filled her eyes and started running
down her cheeks. She looked up at Pa like she wanted to say
something, but it wouldn't come out.

"We brought a load of wood too, Ma'am," Pa said, then he turned to me and said, "Matt, go bring enough in to last for awhile. Let's get that fire up to size and heat this place up."

I wasn't the same person when I went back out to bring in the
wood. I had abig lump in my throat and, much as I hate to
admit it, there were tears in my eyes too. In my mind I kept seeing those three kids huddled around the fireplace and their mother standing there with tears running down her cheeks and so much gratitude in her heart that she couldn't speak. My heart swelled within me and a joy filled my soul that I'd never known before.

I had given at Christmas many times before, but never when it had made so much difference. I could see we were literally
saving the lives of these people.

I soon had the fire blazing and everyone's spirits soared. The
kids started giggling when Pa handed them each a piece of candy and Widow Jensen looked on with a smile that probably hadn't crossed her face for a long time.

She finally turned to us. "God bless you," she said. "I know the Lord himself has sent you. The children and I have been praying that he would send one of his angels to spare us."

In spite of myself, the lump returned to my throat and the tears
welled up in my eyes again. I'd never thought of Pa in those exact terms before, but after Widow Jensen mentioned it I could see that it was probably true. I was sure that a better man than Pa had never walked the earth. I started remembering all the times he had gone out of his way for Ma and me, and many others. The list seemed endless as I thought on it.

Pa insisted that everyone try on the shoes before we left. I was amazed when they all fit and I wondered how he had known what sizes to get.

Then I guessed that if he was on an errand for the Lord that
the Lord would make sure he got the right sizes.

Tears were running down Widow Jensen's face again when we stood up to leave. Pa took each of the kids in his big arms and gave them a hug. They clung to him and didn't want us to go. I could see that they missed their pa, and I was glad that I still had mine.

At the door Pa turned to Widow Jensen and said, "The Mrs. wanted me to invite you and the children over for Christmas
dinner tomorrow. The turkey will be more than the three of us can eat, and a man can get cantankerous if he has to eat turkey for too many meals. We'll be by to get you about eleven. It'll be nice to have some little ones around again. Matt, here, hasn't been little for quite a spell."

I was the youngest. My two older brothers and two older
sisters were all married and had moved away.

Widow Jensen nodded and said, "Thank you, Brother Miles. I don't have to say, "'May the Lord bless you,' I know for certain that He will."

Out on the sled I felt a warmth that came from deep within and I didn't even notice the cold. When we had gone a ways, Pa turned to me and said, "Matt, I want you to know something. Your ma and me have been tucking a little money away here and there all year so we could buy that rifle for you, but we didn't have quite enough.
Then yesterday a man who owed me a little money from years
back came by to make things square. Your ma and me were
real excited, thinking that now we could get you
that rifle, and I started into town this morning to do just that. But on the way I saw little Jakey out scratching in the woodpile with
his feet wrapped in those gunny sacks and I knew what I had to do. So, Son, I spent the money for shoes and a little candy for those children. I hope you understand."

I understood, and my eyes became wet with tearsagain. I understood very well, and I was so glad Pa had done it.
Just then the rifle seemed very low on my list of priorities.Pa had given me a lot more. He had given me the look on Widow Jensen's face and the radiant smiles of her three children.

For the rest of my life, whenever I saw any of the Jensens, or split a block of wood, I remembered, and remembering brought back that same joy I felt riding home beside Pa that night. Pa had given me much more than a rifle that night, he had given me the best Christmas of my life.

~Rian B. Anderson~


Have a nice day...

:) Merry Christmas.

Banshee,

What a wonderful Christmas Story. I know it was meant for tony1 but it brought me great joy. Thanks.

Thank you Blonde_Cupid, you are very welcome.;)

Have a happy new year you all.