In your own words can you explain what the essence of evil is? Is it possible that evil can change? Is it even real?

:mufc:

So...this is going slow. It is evil to ignore evil, is it not?

Evil doesn't exist.

I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God... the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment. Because it's judgment that defeats us.

Holy shit..

Holy shit..

Bump

I am uncertain if that is dispelling evil as an illusion or confirming its reality. Which is it?

If you are familiar of Francis Ford Coppola's 'Apocalypse Now', that was dialogue by Marlon Brando, who in the movie plays Walter E. Kurtz, an American colonel who went insane and leads an army of Vietnamese natives who worship him like a God. The story of course was originally 'Heart of Darkness', by Joseph Conrad.

I'm pretty sure Marlon Brando is just ranting about how you must learn how to cope with evil, and use it when it is necessary, lest you end up in constant fear of it.

Bush II

When does one act upon or against it?

Evil is when people do stuff that's really bad.

In your own words can you explain what the essence of evil is? Is it possible that evil can change? Is it even real?

:mufc:

Excellenent thread JB. I am going outdoors for awhile but yes absolutely evil does, infact, exist.

Evil is when people do stuff that's really bad.

What is really bad ?

Excellenent thread JB. I am going outdoors for awhile but yes absolutely evil does, infact, exist.

In what form... ?
Who or what is evil in your opinion ?

Don't you know?

Don't you know?

Nope.. evil doesn't exist as anything absolute.

Correct.

In what form... ?
Who or what is evil in your opinion ?

ha ha ha. Good one. Well i am less inclined to dwell on demons and connections to supernatural events because i just dont feel it anymore. At one time i thought that maybe i would get a definitive answer but now i just feel that if they wanted us to know than they would be more obvious about it. And TBH, all my research has been pretty meaningless but i am conscious not to cross any lines or open up the wrong door.

In relation to manifestations of evil pertaining to human behavior:

This is a much more difficult call.

Although this ghost video has been widely viewed perhap you have not seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6eXUTyZ_Jc

The first time i watched it i was pretty impressed bu then when i watched it on youtube i was able to pause it and i think you see where the frame of old lady pops in. So if you were to go frame by frame you would see the image pop in more clearly but then on the other hand perhaps i am seeinfg it worng...you cannot go frame by frame in yourube.

Fake or NOT?

Be that as it may, i can see a relationship between evil and ghosts.

Now if there are ghosts, and i can say that a few times i have exoperienced a presence. One time it came and sat at the foot of my bed and another time i was roughed up a bit. Sat on my chest and scratched my leg with its sharp nails. Also, my mouth filled up with blood, i coud taste that rustly bllod taste as i struggled to be released. That was scary. And the bad part is that I dont know if i was dreaming or if it was real because it comes right at that time when you are dozing off and if you try...ah, i shoudnt say anymore but perhaps you have called up them yourself. Like i said, luckily this does not happen anymore but and if anythbing i have lost the ability to manifest (call) an entity, they left hanging around me or it is in remission.

In summation, there is a good chance evil exists.

Maybe later on we can discuss evil more in depth but this is a little touchy too too far into.

evil is that which is immoral and judicially not sound

Not really.

Evil is someone who thinks DNA changes 300,000,000 times a second.

Evil walks the earth in many forms. With predatory eyes and a cold and calculating presence. I first came across it when I was younger. Evil killed those many young women and children. I killed evil with the same intent it had when it gutted them for the pigs to eat. I slit their throats with no remorse or feelings. War is hell at times. I again witnessed evil here in the United States, luckily I did not have to deal with it. It preys on the weak, on those that are afraid. It's like it seeks out those that it can do the most harm. I ran across a very evil presense in a nursing home. You could not sneak up on this old lady, her eyes was always awake and staring. Her room was cold and dark. She never said a word to anyone. You could stick your head in her door to check on her and she would be staring right back at you, regardless of the time of day. Until people are able to deal with evil on its own level we will suffer. Does it matter how you kill evil? We place limits on the way we kill, what is inhumane and suffering? When this evil does not have the same boundries. I guess I had better stop...I could ramble on forever.

evil is that which is immoral and judicially not sound

What, then, are the bases of morality and justice?

Evil is someone who thinks DNA changes 300,000,000 times a second.

DNA changes approximately 3,000,000 times per a second, get your figures straight!

What, then, are the bases of morality and justice?

That depends on the times and circumstances. What we might consider evil now may at one time have been morally justified. When an animal kills another animal, we don't typically recognize it as evil, but when a human kills another human we do. This is because humans are consider by themselves and off themselves to be more conscious and capable of construction reality into a better place instead of destroy its creations. Lions kill deers to survive, are they evil? No.

When it comes to killing, which is clearly an evil of the relative world of existence, there is a fuzzy line dividing two clearly different grounds for the act. On one end it is enjoyed, diabolical, and methodical, and at the other it is indifferent, instinctual, and unplanned. Circumstance wise, it might be evil to break someone's head open, but if they are attacking your life; immoral injustice is pursuing to impend misery and suffering. Then one is obliged to defend their state of happiness and possibly inflict mortal damage in return for controlling the situation.

Evil doesn't have to kill to be evil.Where it does the most harm is what it is after. It is an entity! It is a consciousness that observes and is spontaneous is its actions. Killing is just part of it existence. The blackness of a place, the history as well contributes. But it is free to roam and observe. Yes, I am talking about it as if it was a real person. When you meet evil or you on the serving end of evil, you will know.

I had dinner with him just last week.
He knows all the best restaurants.
And MAN is he fun to go to the bar with!

Evil doesn't have to kill to be evil.Where it does the most harm is what it is after. It is an entity! It is a consciousness that observes and is spontaneous is its actions. Killing is just part of it existence. The blackness of a place, the history as well contributes. But it is free to roam and observe. Yes, I am talking about it as if it was a real person. When you meet evil or you on the serving end of evil, you will know.

Expressive patterns that take a life of their own, that will not be denied their expression? Their expression being the reality of suffering, of misery, of madness? I understand this, what your saying. You can feel something that isn't individual, yet a sensation present in life. I used killing as an example, there are others. I am very curious what the limits of evil are. I recently heard of its limits, and when I ponder this, I find that they are equal to the relative limits of good. There comes a point where neither exist anymore, that which is beyond relative, and thus beyond good and evil.

If this is so, then evil has as much power as good in this relative world. History has shown it to be tireless, ever alert, and exploiting nearly every opportunity that is presented. Its ability to survive and persist in this world is amazing. Good on the other hand, seems to miss so many opportunities, can easily turn evil or get lazy, and usually must suffer before it learns to watch out. Perhaps it is not good enough? Then again, evil can turn to good and good can turn to evil. This only confuses matters and makes it harder to pin down at the most essential level, where it is most vulnerable.

They are oppsote ends of the same scale and that scale is entirely relative to the beholder.
One does not turn into another, because there is nothing to turn into.
There is not some spectre of evil that does battle with the angel of good and ony other such thing.
Neither exist as an entity at all, rather simple, relative value judgements of outside observers.

They are oppsote ends of the same scale and that scale is entirely relative to the beholder.
One does not turn into another, because there is nothing to turn into.
There is not some spectre of evil that does battle with the angel of good and ony other such thing.
Neither exist as an entity at all, rather simple, relative value judgements of outside observers.

OK...outside of the relativity of time this makes sense. As to the entity...

Can you please define what an Entity is?

Can you please define what an Entity is?

Something which exists as a distinct, discrete, separate, individual item.

A "thing".

It often implies, by connotation, a consciousness or cognizance.

Evil is not a "thing" to exist.
It can be fun and interesting to view it as such, but it is not.

Someone can be evil in your view - even that requires an awfully limited mental capacity to not recognize that every person will tilt one way or another on that scale and not be wholly at either end. Often times how far one is on the scale is based largely on the mood of the person, and often times it is based on the mood of the beholder.

This is a value judgement you placed on another person, which says at least as much about you as it does about them.

Evil and Good do not exist as entities just as Pretty and Homely do not exist as entities.

Something which exists as a distinct, discrete, separate, individual item.

A "thing".

It often implies, by connotation, a consciousness or cognizance.

So an entity is a conscious thing? I always thought it was something alive?

Evil is not a "thing" to exist.
It can be fun and interesting to view it as such, but it is not.

I would say that it can appear within the form of things. In the face of a cold killer, in a bomb that blows up innocent people, in the sadistic glee of the torturer. If it is ignored or dismissed, then it becomes easier for it to to appear in the features of the form itself, while going unnoticed.

Someone can be evil in your view - even that requires an awfully limited mental capacity to not recognize that every person will tilt one way or another on that scale and not be wholly at either end. Often times how far one is on the scale is based largely on the mood of the person, and often times it is based on the mood of the beholder.

The mood, interesting. So are you saying there is an evil mood?

This is a value judgement you placed on another person, which says at least as much about you as it does about them.

Evil and Good do not exist as entities just as Pretty and Homely do not exist as entities.

Value, now your zeroing in. Yes, indeed value is a primary role in what could be considered evil or good.

DNA changes approximately 3,000,000 times per a second, get your figures straight!

I do have it straight. It's quite a bit lower. But: OT.

I've never heard of crimes,wars or attrocities carried out in the name of evil only in the name of good.........If you claim to be good then anything that opposes you is evil, without Good there would be no evil........
As far as I know hordes of rampaging evildoers/devil worshipers/satanist have never caused harm to anyone,yet the crusades/inquisition was done by people claiming to represent good......Iraq war is in the name of Good.......the jewish persecution of palestinians is done for the good of the jewish israelies......

People who act in the name of good, generally perform evil acts on those who are opposite them (evil) , I think good is just a cover to perform evil acts, i.e. war in the name of peace............?

like the ying and yang, good and evil are 2 halves of a whole.

Good and evil is the same thing as if there was no Good there would be no opposite..!

Jozen-bo: This is because humans are consider by themselves and off themselves to be more conscious and capable of construction reality into a better place instead of destroy its creations.

No I disagree, I think its because we have a culture which determines when, where and how killing another human is justified. For example the law protects abortion and yet many think of it as an evil and at one time the act was not protected under the law. In many countries the act is still not protected under the law. A soldier is expected to kill and we see this as justified. If he goes home and gets in a brawl in a bar, we then try and determine whether it was pre-meditated or in self defence and punish or not on that basis. In the West we condemn honor killings and yet in some societies this is considered right action.

I do have it straight. It's quite a bit lower. But: OT.

OT...:confused:

Lets hear it then shall we?

I've never heard of crimes,wars or attrocities carried out in the name of evil only in the name of good.........If you claim to be good then anything that opposes you is evil, without Good there would be no evil........
As far as I know hordes of rampaging evildoers/devil worshipers/satanist have never caused harm to anyone,yet the crusades/inquisition was done by people claiming to represent good......Iraq war is in the name of Good.......the jewish persecution of palestinians is done for the good of the jewish israelies......

People who act in the name of good, generally perform evil acts on those who are opposite them (evil) , I think good is just a cover to perform evil acts, i.e. war in the name of peace............?

like the ying and yang, good and evil are 2 halves of a whole.

Good and evil is the same thing as if there was no Good there would be no opposite..!

Awesome answer Pinocchio's Hoof! This clarifies a lot of what I meant when I wrote the evil and turn to good and good can turn to evil!!!

Jozen-bo: This is because humans are consider by themselves and off themselves to be more conscious and capable of construction reality into a better place instead of destroy its creations.

No I disagree, I think its because we have a culture which determines when, where and how killing another human is justified. For example the law protects abortion and yet many think of it as an evil and at one time the act was not protected under the law. In many countries the act is still not protected under the law. A soldier is expected to kill and we see this as justified. If he goes home and gets in a brawl in a bar, we then try and determine whether it was pre-meditated or in self defence and punish or not on that basis. In the West we condemn honor killings and yet in some societies this is considered right action.

Culture is made of individuals. Their collective will determines that standards. What you are implying is that evil is in the perception and relative to the culture that perceives. The individual is granted immunity from being classified as evil by his peers if they agree on what calls for justifying killing. Then again, there are individuals who indulge in the practice of being evil and try to obtain greater states of it. This is consciousness turned against consciousness without any justification at all. This seeks to promote anti-values and exert anguish and suffering. When a member of a culture turns against other members of the culture and performs cruel calculated murder, it is a general feature of all cultures that this is considered evil.

Evil is the label we give to that which threatens our survival.

I think evil has its roots in arrogance.

The only roots evil has are deeply set in humanity itself.

its like that yinyang thing, there's good and bad in everything. no absolute evil.

evil is someone who murders someone you love. evil is anything that makes you feel a negative emotion. evil is a stronger form of bad.

The only roots evil has are deeply set in humanity itself.

in other words, evil exists.

evil is someone who murders someone you love. evil is anything that makes you feel a negative emotion. evil is a stronger form of bad.



in other words, evil exists.

only in the eye of the beholder..........?

Jozen-Bo: Culture is made of individuals. Their collective will determines that standards.

Oh wouldn't agree with that. Culture is formed by a few exceptional individuals who impact society through art, religion, philosophy and politics and is then emulated by the collective/masses. In China foot-binding was once practiced by the rich aristocricy and the rest of society copied. Why would anyone want to systematically crush the feet of a seven year old girl just so her feet could fit into a 2 inch shoe? I am sure the majority of peasant society would have come up with a more practical standard of beauty, but then again the majority does not create the standard they simply follow suit.

JZB:What you are implying is that evil is in the perception and relative to the culture that perceives.

Yes of course it is. In the West we are bent out of shape if an adult has sex with a child, in Angola the age of consent is 12 years old. Mayans used to sacrifice humans to their gods, abortion was once illegal and considered a grave sin. The perception of evil changes as the culture changes. Slavery as you well know was protected under the law at one stage in the States and now is considered a historical evil. So yes I do see the notion of evil as relative.

JZB:The individual is granted immunity from being classified as evil by his peers if they agree on what calls for justifying killing.

Yes or if its protected by law.

JZB: Then again, there are individuals who indulge in the practice of being evil and try to obtain greater states of it.

Can you please explain what you mean by 'the practice of being evil'? I mean what are you referring to Nazi Germany? Idi Amin? Hannibal Lechter?

JZB:This is consciousness turned against consciousness without any justification at all.

Do you believe evil to be some cryptic source emanating from somewhere specific like the devil perhaps? If so why? I tend to agree with One Raven.

JZB: This seeks to promote anti-values and exert anguish and suffering. When a member of a culture turns against other members of the culture and performs cruel calculated murder, it is a general feature of all cultures that this is considered evil.

But the whole history of mankind (or rather say human nature) is rife with members of a culture turning against other members within and outside of their particular culture and it wasn't considered evil. Slavery is an example of this, war is another. You have the death penalty and abortion, there were witch burnings etc and whether one considers any of the above inherently evil or not depends on the society they belong to and where one resides in the course of history.

evil is someone who murders someone you love. evil is anything that makes you feel a negative emotion. evil is a stronger form of bad.



in other words, evil exists.

No, you didn't understand.

for there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so...?

The only roots evil has are deeply set in humanity itself.

My first respinse was going to be, "I have never met an arrogant animal".
Then I thought about it...

Is, for example, a peacock arrogant or is that a strictly human trait?

My first respinse was going to be, "I have never met an arrogant animal".
Then I thought about it...

Is, for example, a peacock arrogant or is that a strictly human trait?

It's a strictly human trait.
Although peacocks have been known to be a bit cocky..

JZB: Then again, there are individuals who indulge in the practice of being evil and try to obtain greater states of it.

Can you please explain what you mean by 'the practice of being evil'? I mean what are you referring to Nazi Germany? Idi Amin? Hannibal Lechter?

No, I mean psychopaths who turn their mind and try to form an alliance with evil, to make it real. They try to manifest it on purpose, their ideas of what is desirable contorted. There are real psychopaths in this world that engage in rituals that are focused on being evil. Have you never felt such a presence or seen its possibility. Considering the population, the state of the world, there are people like this. Recently I saw there was a man arrested for keeping his daughter in a room under his house for over 23 years. He raped his daughter for 23 years, forced her to have 3-4 children, until finally he got caught. Is this evil? I find it to be. Can you imagine your father raping you for 23 years, keeping you underground, and making you have 3-4 children?


JZB:This is consciousness turned against consciousness without any justification at all.

Do you believe evil to be some cryptic source emanating from somewhere specific like the devil perhaps? If so why? I tend to agree with One Raven.

The Devil is an Idea. An idea is formless, but can manifest in the minds where form is encountered and take form in this way. This would make the devil more powerful then a real devil, who could be defeated. It would be capable of entering a mass of people instead of being just one. If ideas can take on a life of their own, then this one is no exception. Behind every word is the idea of it. Our language is an idea of defined ideas. Just how much life can that idea take form into, or how much life can it acquire? Then again, there are so many takes on the idea of the devil, religions all recognize the devil in one way or another. Science seems to dismiss the concept. Neither can prove anything.


JZB: This seeks to promote anti-values and exert anguish and suffering. When a member of a culture turns against other members of the culture and performs cruel calculated murder, it is a general feature of all cultures that this is considered evil.

But the whole history of mankind (or rather say human nature) is rife with members of a culture turning against other members within and outside of their particular culture and it wasn't considered evil. Slavery is an example of this, war is another. You have the death penalty and abortion, there were witch burnings etc and whether one considers any of the above inherently evil or not depends on the society they belong to and where one resides in the course of history.

I think you misunderstood. If I shoot you in the head in the middle of the day in the middle of the city around police and other people, there will be distress and it would not be acceptable, and justice would define it as evil. It was the same way in any culture, if in Rome I were to stab you to death in front of everyone, I would be arrested and tried. Even primitive cultures and tribes consider this off. Everything you mentioned thus far involves an inside outside relationship, master and slave, enemy and enemy, puritans and witches. When two insiders of the same group do such an act, it is considered by that inside group as punishable.

My first respinse was going to be, "I have never met an arrogant animal".
Then I thought about it...

Is, for example, a peacock arrogant or is that a strictly human trait?

I've seen enough animals with character that my answer would be that peacocks, especially male peacocks, like to strut and show off for the chicks. They show-off and can get arrogant. Heck, I've seen mice, dogs, cats, and other animals get arrogant.

For me arrogance is about presumed knowledge combined with an unjust feeling of self-importance and distinct assertiveness.

Wait a second, this is about evil, not arrogance. Are we saying it is evil to be arrogant?

In your own words can you explain what the essence of evil is? Is it possible that evil can change? Is it even real?

:mufc:

I looked it up in the dictionary and there was just a picture of me

Wait a second, this is about evil, not arrogance. Are we saying it is evil to be arrogant?

No, I'm saying evil doesn't exist.
First of all it's a human contruct.
Secondly, it is a religious concept.
And thirdly, has anyone ever seriously called someone evil (apart from religious freaks) ?

maybe, maybe not.

maybe, maybe not.

Explain ?

Well when i was a child i stumbled upon hundreds of crime scene photos. They were picked because they were particularly depraved and untill you actually see this stuff...let me tell you that the stuff you see in the movies and t.v is a nothing compared to what i saw.

They belonged to a prominent police detective who later became FBI agent.

evil is when I take a rose from your heart, evil is when I steal all your love, evil is when I turn blind to your pleas for lost time.

Well when i was a child i stumbled upon hundreds of crime scene photos. They were picked because they were particularly depraved and untill you actually see this stuff...let me tell you that the stuff you see in the movies and t.v is a nothing compared to what i saw.

They belonged to a prominent police detective who later became FBI agent.

That still doesn't make evil objective. Sorry you had to see that though...

That still doesn't make evil objective. Sorry you had to see that though...

On the other hand...he is now prepared. It is a fortune, in a way. To see your own psychological fear, before it tests you in reality.

Enmos:That still doesn't make evil objective.

so what would you call it?
http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aevil&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

as far as i am concerned evil can in fact be an entity.

Enmos:That still doesn't make evil objective.

so what would you call it?
http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aevil&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

as far as i am concerned evil can in fact be an entity.

That link doesn't work for me (I'm in The Netherlands and it does some kind of search).
Who or what would you identify as the embodiment of evil ?

Does it say define:evil in the search box?

Who or what would you identify as the embodiment of evil ?

Hard to say. I would put serial killers as a possibility.

http://www.occhirossi.it/Serial_Killer/Ricky-Ramirez-1.jpg

Does it say define:evil in the search box?
Yes, but it can't find any.

Hard to say. I would put serial killers as a possibility.
http://www.occhirossi.it/Serial_Killer/Ricky-Ramirez-1.jpg
Why are they evil other then subjectively i.e. according to our morals ?

They're not evil in their mother's eyes. Just confused, or ill.

They're not evil in their mother's eyes. Just confused, or ill.

Exactly, good point.

Jozen-Bo: Can you imagine your father raping you for 23 years, keeping you underground, and making you have 3-4 children?

Well at least then we'd know where he is. No. JOKING, JOKING.
Ok, I have heard of some psychopaths engaging in ritual but there could be other reasons for such behaviour that doesn't have anything to do with 'conjuring up' evil or trying to manifest evil. These personality profiles seem motivated beyond good and bad, meaning they have no conscience so their actions though it may give them pleasure doesn't mean they are invested in the notion of evil such to say 'I want to be evil. I'm going to conjure evil and become evil'. We can see their actions as evil, or sick, a perversion (and no the three are not inherently associated) but a psychopath, sociopath, narcissist is INDIFFERENT they are not TRYING to BE evil, they are being themselves. As for the story of the father who kept his daughter in the basement there are far worse incidents than that.

JZB: Have you never felt such a presence or seen its possibility

Well it could be possible I guess but I have never felt its presence, I dont believe evil is a separate entity or energy form, I believe we all carry the possiblity of heinous acs to varying degrees, some more apt towards such behaviour if pushed (or nurtured) than others. Since moving abroad I have had the opportunity to meet a few strange people who it turned out were capable of some surprisingly violent or twisted behaviour. What I find interesting is that those whom I have in mind are actually quite ordinary by all accounts, nothing at all astonishing, frightening, nothing to set them apart. One in particular was a school teacher, nice English guy, everyone liked him up until the Khmer police finally arrested him for peadophilia. As a community we were all shocked, his best friend who worked with him for years in an orphanage thought he was the salt of the earth. Just goes to show you. On the other hand I have met a few military contractors who exhibit a vigorous elan when on time off, and yet you know they are going to go back to Iraq or Afghanistan and would engage in wholesale slaughter IF a situation warrants such action. Once I asked one how he felt about killing innocents, maybe even woman or yougsters and the response was quite simple: "The problem with civilians is that they are always in the way". Evil devils I have yet to meet, only humans beings.

Do you have trouble with the notion that people can commit senseless acts without the help of an evil entity?

JZB: The Devil is an Idea. An idea is formless, but can manifest in the minds where form is encountered and take form in this way

What do you mean by 'manifest in the mind where form is encountered'? If its in the mind it takes on no actual form. Do you think one must believe in the devil to have thoughts you consider evil?

JZB: Then again, there are so many takes on the idea of the devil, religions all recognize the devil in one way or another. Science seems to dismiss the concept. Neither can prove anything

Buddhism and Hinduism do not have the same concept of evil or a devil as they do in occidental religions. Have you ever heard of an animist tradition that shares the occidental view of good-bad, devils-saints? I haven't. Non-occidental religions tend to view things in a totality, without division. Occidental religions tend to view things in opposition god vs. man, man vs. nature, nature vs. god, devil vs. god, etc.
The notion of evil has no place in science and that's as it should be.

JZB: If I shoot you in the head in the middle of the day in the middle of the city around police and other people, there will be distress and it would not be acceptable, and justice would define it as evil...

Not in Cambodia. As a matter of fact if you did do something like that and belonged to the right family, have enough money representing power you can walk right back into your SUV and drive away and the police would sit around and say 'What gunman?' It happens here all the time.

Two examples:

"Rey lives in Phnom Penh, studies at Notion Universality, drives a Honda Wave motorcycle and likes to wear fashionable clothes. To all the world, Rey is a typical, 21-year-old middle-class Cambodian youth, though he’s a little stockier in build than most. In his free time, Rey likes hanging around with his friends. But there is nothing more he enjoys than gang raping prostitutes – a shocking new phenomenon that is apparently on the rise in Phnom Penh. "One girl, six boys, with no wife, it is OK,’ says Rey, in chilling matter-of –fact voice, during a recent conversation at his school.
Gang rape is common in Phnom Penh and Rey and his friends are not the exception, according to new research that suggests Cambodia’s youth are growing up in a world starkly different to previous generations. The research, titled "Paupers and Princelings: Youth Attitudes Toward Gangs, violence, Rape, Drugs and Thief," paints a grim picture of gangs, drug use, gang rape and young people’s tolerance for violence and impunity by the powerful. Most disturbing in the survey, carried out by the Gender and Development for Cambodia NGO, is the "common" occurrence of gang rape that targets, but is not strictly limited to, prostitutes. Asked how popular gang rape is, Rey says, "I’m not sure. But I can say all my friends [do it]… maybe 50 boys."

http://cambodia.ahrchk.net/mainfile.php/news200304/595

"investigations, protection and advocacy
Human rights abuses in Cambodia are widespread, creating sizeable challenges for human rights groups. Without a prevailing rule of law, the rich and powerful prey upon the poor and the weak and face no repercussions. Powerful and wealthy people are often able to commit acts of violence, seize property, and infringe on the rights of others, with little or no consequences."

http://www.licadho.org/programs/monitoringoffice.php

Sorry wrong login. From p/moan

OK here's my take on what is evil.

1) Evil is a conscious or unconscious act that interferes with or causes undue distress to the mind and puts it in a state of fear or disgust.

2)Interferes with pure thought and disturbs its energy ie causes ripples in an otherwise tranquill and equilibrious pond.

3)Is so sociallogically unacceptable so as to create a sense of disgust.

4)An act carried out purposely to cause chaos and distress except in cases of war.

Because people are often a victim of their surroundings and upbringing I don't believe some acts perceived as evil actually are. For example a murderer might only be expelling all of his hate in one concentrated moment due to an abusive childhood and having harboured and bottled up a lot of hate. Humans to a large extent are behavioral machines that behave according to what they have been socially exposed to and what they have absorbed. If the input/stimuli/programming of an individual is generally negative and little taught of social ettiquette and morals then the likely outcome will be an individual that is mentally damaged and so may commit damaging acts themselves and repeat the process. Because the mind is like a template and is gradually programmed by parents and society a damaged mind may be percieved to carry out evil acts. In such cases the blame lies not wholely on the individual but also lies with the chain of programmers that have all had an input in warping an individuals state of mind and psyche.

Perspective also has a hand in defining evil eg the Nazis perceiving their acts as righteous. In this scenario we have conflicting ideas of which party perceives what as evil. In such circumstances evil become a perception according to what side your on. What's good for one side is perceived as evil by the other. This makes evil a 'relative' affair ie something is evil relative to my upbringing, state of mind and social acceptance.

Lastly because evil is largely a judgemental suposition it might be said that evil can only be deemed evil by those in a position of power and influence eg leaders of a tribe etc.
So for eg if I were a cult leader and declared advertising as evil then all my subjects would change their mindset accordingly. Similarly if Jesus Christ had said that eating meat was evil then many of us would have changed our behavior accordingly. The likely outcome in this scenario is that any meat eaters would be perceived as evil.

What is Evil?

It's Live spelt backwards.

It's Live spelt backwards.

ha ha, that was good challenger. never noticed that.

Reminds me of this:

Am I evil? yes, I am
Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

It is very difficult to be an evil person.
Most people doing wrong, delude themselves that what they are doing is justifiable or right. These people are simply bad.

In order to be evil, you must know that what you are doing is wrong, and do it anyway because it achieves something that you want.

An evil person is much more dangerous than a bad person.

Ian Bradey for example. All there, absolutely no sign of mental illness. Appears really clear minded and fully justified in his own mind. A true sociopath. Cold and calculated. And yet ask Mira and she'd completely deny he was evil at all.

Ian Bradey for example. All there, absolutely no sign of mental illness. Appears really clear minded and fully justified in his own mind. A true sociopath. Cold and calculated. And yet ask Mira and she'd completely deny he was evil at all.

I think they were peas in a pod. Both evil.
Mira also had the ability to change her personality in order to manipulate people, and she would have got out of prison had Brady not deliberately released information which showed her to be more culpable.

Have you ever seen the TV film about Lord Longford?
A very good and clever man, but she wrapped him round her little finger.

No I haven't, I'm not sure I could handle it though.

Oddly enough, it is easy to watch.
It is more about Lord Longford than Myra, and Jim Broadbent plays him superbly.

Longford was a marked man in the UK media because of his attempts to rehabilitate Hindley, and
his attacks on Pornography. They used to call him "Lord Porn"

This film treated him sypathetically, and changed my views about him.

Wait a second, this is about evil, not arrogance. Are we saying it is evil to be arrogant?

Yes.
I am.

Did you not see that?

I think evil has its roots in arrogance.

I think the root of evil lies in arrogance and self-importance.

War, greed, avarice, elitism, religious extremism...
All these have their roots in self-important arrogance.

I think the root of evil lies in arrogance and self-importance.

I believe evil cannot be explained. It is extra human behaviour or that which deviates from the norm.

Evil has alot of bearing in the culture of today. The Austrian guy who kept his daughter locked away in the home and had children with her. Is that not evil?. It all comes down to the way you get brought up and the way people get desensitized from the entertainment industry and from the media. It's a fucked up society which causes people to behave irrationally because of the gap closing on the differences of what's wrong and right. It'll only get worse with murders, rape, child abuse, shootings...etc...

This wont go away. The word evil seems to vanish when anything happens these days. It's easy to suggest someone isnt, but if you look at the heinous crimes they commited say the person raped and murdered someone. If this was ten years ago you'd have him down as an evil and nasty person.

The sad state of society really reflects on things which have been implented in our minds when it comes down to a heinous act. It's not that bad anymore. It's all down to culture and the desensitisation of a person.

I know of no evil people at all.
People may sometimes do evil things, but to call a person evil would imply the person is incapable of doing good.
That is a simple-minded way of discounting a person as a human being.
Rather than looking at a person and trying to understand why a person did what (s)he did, it is easier to simply discount the person as "evil" and sweep the mess under the rug.

It is also a way for people to avoid acknowledging that all people, even you, are capable of evil.
"That's not a human being, that's just evil."
Bullshit.
It is a person, just like you and me.

It's all down to culture and the desensitisation of a person.

Nonsense.
That is a scapegoat.
Look at history.
If anything, this is the most "sensitive" and puritanical society we have ever had.
In Medieval England people treated children like little adults.
When you has sex in your one-room apartment, your children were in the same room.
Child labor and child whores were commonplace.
Violence and death was a way of life.

Every epoch in human history was riddled with widespread death, disease and murder.
Crime today is even less than it was only 60 - 70 years ago.

Even now, in many parts of the world people live with the constant threat of war, disease and widespread panic over their heads all the time.

The fact that people can see glorified fake murder in movies and video games does not cause them to commit violence.
The simple fact that the cultures with these forms of entertainments have relatively low crime rates is proof of that.
If crime was as rampant as you are making it out to be in your post, people would not be so shocked by it.

I will admit that it seems to be getting worse in recent years (compared to 40 - 50 years ago) but first of all, that would be worse compared to the best it has ever been and secondly seems worse is not necessarily the same as worse.
The so called "news" is a for-profit entertainment industry and they feed on controversy and scandal.

They want to shock and awe people into watching them.

Take a look at some crime statistics over the past hundred years - I bet you will be surprised at what you find.

I know of no evil people at all.
People may sometimes do evil things, but to call a person evil would imply the person is incapable of doing good.


The evil person is evil because they deliberately do harm instead of good.

The evil person is evil because they deliberately do harm instead of good.

That makes for an evil act not an evil person.
By your definition every person is evil.

I don't believe any person alive has never knowingly done harm to another.

It is the evil act which defines the person to be evil most of the time.

It is the evil act which defines the person to be evil most of the time.

I disagree.

It i sthe evil acts that cause people to call someone evil, but that does not mean a person is evil.

I defy you to name a single person who is evil.
Not evil acts one has committed, but someone who is pur evil, incapable of good acts.
For that matter, name one person who is pure good, incapable of evil acts.

It is much easier to condemn and label than it is to think and understand.

Albert Fish?. Oh hes not evil though is he. Afterall he eate his victims and had his young children spank him with a brush of nails, but oh no thats not an evil person. I think that's a monster personally. He wasnt classed as insane. So obviously he was well aware of what he was about to do each time.

Albert Fish?. Oh hes not evil though is he. Afterall he eate his victims and had his young children spank him with a brush of nails, but oh no thats not an evil person. I think that's a monster personally. He wasnt classed as insane. So obviously he was well aware of what he was about to do each time.
Whether or not he was judged "legally insane" by a court of law has little bearing on the subject.

I do believe he was aware of his acts when he was committing them. I also concede that these acts could be called evil (though I would fall short of admitting that there is something that is objectively, positively evil).

That aside, someone who is pure evil lacks humanity, compassion, emotional response...

Is it your opinion that Fish was pure evil, therefore had no capacity to do good, to feel emotional pain, to suffer?

I would also, by the way, stop short of saying that he necessarily believed what he was doing was "wrong" at the time.

When I consider evil, or what evil is, I find that it is only present as an expressive act. Without such, it is incapable of having the substance that makes it evil, though it may be harmful, it isn't actually evil. When a lion kills a deer, this is not evil on behalf of the lion, who has no choice, while it is evil to the deer, who feels teeth and claw rip it open. The reality is different from both perspectives individually as it really is with both existing in one reality. An insane person could be comparable to the lion, incapable of choosing.

At its root it is formless potential of cold, diabolical, methodical, severance from the unity of life, as it grows out it takes form and expresses something that is an undeniable part of life. I have heard to separate behavior from act, to say that the person behaved wrong, though the person isn't wrong. When I consider this, I find the act and the person to be the same in a motion for the time the person acts. Thus, when a person is expressive evil and causes suffering, both the person and the act are for that time being evil. When the activity, whether at surface or at deeper levels ceases to stir, there is nothing left. If Karma is true, then these acts stain and stir processes at a deeper level, where habitual patterns are formed, thus one can descent if they continue to reinforce the habit.

When I consider evil, or what evil is, I find that it is only present as an expressive act. Without such, it is incapable of having the substance that makes it evil, though it may be harmful, it isn't actually evil.
So, are you saying that actions can be evil or are you saying that evil exists as an entity when evil is being done?

When a lion kills a deer, this is not evil on behalf of the lion, who has no choice, while it is evil to the deer, who feels teeth and claw rip it open. The reality is different from both perspectives individually as it really is with both existing in one reality.
Those who have been saying that evil does not exist as an objective reality - this is all they are saying.
Whether or not an action is evil all depends on the perception of the observer.

An insane person could be comparable to the lion, incapable of choosing.
Some would say that the willingness to perform an evil act, such as premeditated, unprovoked murder is the very definition of insane.

At its root it is formless potential of cold, diabolical, methodical, severance from the unity of life, as it grows out it takes form and expresses something that is an undeniable part of life.
So evil is a thing??
A thing that exists, but gathers energy from evil acts??
Sounds silly to me.


I have heard to separate behavior from act, to say that the person behaved wrong, though the person isn't wrong. When I consider this, I find the act and the person to be the same in a motion for the time the person acts. Thus, when a person is expressive evil and causes suffering, both the person and the act are for that time being evil. When the activity, whether at surface or at deeper levels ceases to stir, there is nothing left.
"Bill was being evil in the moment" is pretty much the same thing as "Bill was performing an evil act" which is a far cry from "Bill IS evil". This is all I have been saying. Performing an act which someone percieves as evil does not make a person evil.

If Karma is true, then these acts stain and stir processes at a deeper level, where habitual patterns are formed, thus one can descent if they continue to reinforce the habit.
Is this your deep way of saying that performing evil acts will lead to performing more evil acts?

So, are you saying that actions can be evil or are you saying that evil exists as an entity when evil is being done?

Both.

Those who have been saying that evil does not exist as an objective reality - this is all they are saying.
Whether or not an action is evil all depends on the perception of the observer.

Without the Subjective Reality, there is no objective reality. Without evil there can not be good. There is the perceiver and then there is the perceived, the one the perceiver perceives. The actual circumstances is that there may be two or more perceptions involved. If so much as one of them perceives evil, then there is evil within the entire perception process itself.

Some would say that the willingness to perform an evil act, such as premeditated, unprovoked murder is the very definition of insane.

Good point. I am riddled by this myself. I find that this is insane when I search myself for an answer. That only complicates evil, making it harder to root out and define.

So evil is a thing??
A thing that exists, but gathers energy from evil acts??
Sounds silly to me.

No, an expression of something. Its the expression, not the thing. The thing is merely a tool by which the inner spirit can use to express itself with. Spirit, or mind, or the center of thought and emotion (whatever you consider it to be); this is where it is found, and this has no form, its always changing.

"Bill was being evil in the moment" is pretty much the same thing as "Bill was performing an evil act" which is a far cry from "Bill IS evil". This is all I have been saying. Performing an act which someone percieves as evil does not make a person evil.

No, Bill isn't evil absolutely, nothing is. In the absolution of time, all things pander out and equalize. Everything serves a purpose, what happens to the victims is their own fault, they might as well be evil too, though theirs is punishment earned elsewhere. Nothing is Innocent in this reality, not the opposite. If we step into the relative moment, bill is truly evil within its confines. Evil is Relative, so is Good. The Absolute is beyond both.

Is this your deep way of saying that performing evil acts will lead to performing more evil acts?

I didn't know I was being deep? Though, yes, I'd say performing evil acts can lead to performing more evil acts, it picks up momentum. But, what may be evil and unacceptable one moment may be the right thing to do in another. Circumstances will always play a role.

Animals behave through instinct and stimuli, inanimate objects are forced to behave through outside physical forces (metaphorically speaking), but human beings ACT. It is the act of evil that creates evil, but the root of the action is relative. There is no pure causal relationship that defines the beginning of "evil". But our actions define us. If we act evil, perform evil acts, then are we not evil?

But our actions define us. If we act evil, perform evil acts, then are we not evil?

No we are not - we have acted in an evil manner.
All of us has the capacity to act in an evil manner.
I would argue that all of us has acted to cause results that some will characterize as evil.
Would that not make all humans evil?
Then it becomes a bit of a moot point, does it not?
What you are really saying is that free will is the equivalent of evil, since the results of any action can be evil.

dude its like lord of the rings, the one ring is the only thing ever created evil.

actually, and surprisingly, i completely agree with one raven.

there's some good in every action, so how can anything or anyone be evil, when evil is an absolute? murdering someone - conflict resolution, exercise. the media, correctional facilities and the morgue will get business. pre-emptive strike at overpopulation. rape - at least you're getting some. throwing babies off cliffs - they'll totally think they can fly. awesome.

No we are not - we have acted in an evil manner.
All of us has the capacity to act in an evil manner.
I would argue that all of us has acted to cause results that some will characterize as evil.
Would that not make all humans evil?
Then it becomes a bit of a moot point, does it not?
What you are really saying is that free will is the equivalent of evil, since the results of any action can be evil.

Then evil is relative and fluid. We are all evil. We are all good. It's free will that allows us the capacity for both and action that defines it.

It is the act of evil that creates evil, but the root of the action is relative.
I think it is the way the action is percieved thats denotes 'evil' the action may well be carried out under the premise of good..
If we act evil, perform evil acts, then are we not evil?
Yes they may be seen as 'evil', but they may be acting for the sake of good, I think the outer perception of the act, how it is understood is more important in classing good/evil than the act itself.
Then evil is relative and fluid. We are all evil. We are all good. It's free will that allows us the capacity for both and action that defines it.

Agreed

Evil doesn't exist because it is a creation of the mind. People who partake in so-called "evil" acts are under a psychotic delusion. People who partake in good acts or acts that progress humanity are in the know. They have knowledge of themselves and do not contradict logic. Those who partake in the contradiction of logic are "evil". Since the mind works by logic, evil would be creating a false reality without logic and explanation. They willing participants of such a destructive act are in complete delusion, despite how well they commit the act. It cannot be understood by looking at it or measuring it, but in referrence to the absence of truth. I think of the brain as a quantum computer because of its non-algorithmic processing. It can also be aware of its own awareness.

In your own words can you explain what the essence of evil is? Is it possible that evil can change? Is it even real?

:mufc:

Evil can change, it is malleable to destruction. That is because it is a delusion. We can't pierce it though because it is not an entity but a concept alone. What we must do is define it against its absence (which is not an absence, but non-absence). Think light and dark. True and false.

Evil can change, it is malleable to destruction. That is because it is a delusion. We can't pierce it though because it is not an entity but a concept alone. What we must do is define it against its absence (which is not an absence, but non-absence). Think light and dark. True and false.

Cortex_Colossus...you are more then a scientific genius, your straight up a genius!!!


(Takes one to know one)

I've seen horrors... Horror. Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children.

I almost cried with laughter when I read that. That has to be the best Big Train sketch EVER. Yeah, I know it's from Apocalypse Now, but Big Train's version is better.

You know, I don't think Evil truly exists in reality. It's merely a matter of perception.

What one person would consider evil, others would consider an act of someone who has lost their wits. Humans are such many-layered beings that terms so black-and-white as Good and Evil can't really apply. The word Evil belongs to the world of Fairy Tales.

You know, I don't think Evil truly exists in reality. It's merely a matter of perception.

What one person would consider evil, others would consider an act of someone who has lost their wits. Humans are such many-layered beings that terms so black-and-white as Good and Evil can't really apply. The word Evil belongs to the world of Fairy Tales.

v.true.

Evil is subjective. I prefer to follow along the route of anything that causes unnecessary evil.

Oppressing the weak through ignorance, fear, and threats. Harming the innocent and those unable to defend themselves. Harming anything out of sadism or the sake for killing for unnecessary purposes. Suppression of natural rights as long as there is no need for the oppression. Using euphemisms for a massive misinformation campaign. Using religion to cover up for political maneuvers. Oppressing others due to differences in upbringing- culture, race, sex, social hierarchy. Yes, they suit my definition of unnecessary harm quite well.