What is Death? What is its purpose?
Can someone give me a Scientific explanation for what happens with us when and after we die?

Let's see what we get here... :D

Blessings,
Nelson

Death is when the body wears out, succumbs to disease, or just plain gives up. The causes are many; the end result is same. Earthly functions come to a halt. Some would say that is when the spiritual functions increase.

Regardless, without death there would be no room for the living to occupy. That thought brings to mind an old poster I once saw. In the picture, were masses of people with no room to turn no room to move. Be thankful it happens to us all. I guess you could say that is a mixed blessing

Have you ever witnessed a death at close hand?

I have several times in my work as a nurse. The eyes are the wierdest part, they literally switch off like a light went out.

I know it's a cliche but it's as near to the truth as most cliches get.

The body just shuts down and stops. who knows about a soul ? I just think in terms of a lifelight. Not the destruction of energy, just a change in it's form.

Can someone give me a Scientific explanation for what
happens with us when and after we die?When we die: All defense/repair mechanisms shut down.

After we die: We rot.

Scientific enough?

Take care. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by bbcboy
Not the destruction of energy, just a change in it's form.

That's it... :D

Blessings,
Nelson

What is death?

The End. Finito. Das ende. The ceasing of existance. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Have a nice day. :D

Death is returning to the same state of non-existence from which you were plucked by your parents' "messing around".

Since your mom was scrwd, the Universe considers you fktup. So, it kills you in self-defense or, maybe, just for the amusement.

Who really knows? ;)

My mom was scrwd?

euw!:eek:

I thought that when we die, our "energy" is made into something else. I heard once before that energy does not just cease to exist but it - I guess you can say - mutates into something else. Is this true. Because if so, then we dont just "die", we turn into something else.


... I think Im drunk know.....


Groove out:cool:

,,,and I always thought it was the stork to blame.

My mom was scrwd by a stork?

eeuw!!

:D

"Energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely transformed"
Probably Einstien... It usually is!

Originally posted by *stRgrL*:
I thought that when we die, our "energy" is made into something else. I heard once before that energy does not just cease to exist but it - I guess you can say - mutates into something else. Is this true. Because if so, then we dont just "die", we turn into something else.

Originally posted by bbcboy
"Energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely transformed"

Now we are getting where I want... :)

Now... can someone tell me what is the real difference from borning to dying...?

P.S.: *stRgrL*,
We don't turn into something else. Our conscience and our inconscience, which is made by energy and is ourselves (we are not our body, of course...) is released from our body. What Religious and Esoteric call Spirit is our conscient and unconscient together. People usually don't know there unconscient very well. But in some special cases, like dreaming or telepathy, is our unconscient's job.

Blessings,
Nelson

stRgrl

"I heard once before that energy does not just cease to exist but it - I guess you can say - mutates into something else"

I think what you are saying here is closely described by Newtons law of conservation of energy.

I think it goes something like "energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it only changes from one form of energy to another"

I am taking that from the top of my head so I may be way off and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am :)

all the best

RoE

Now... can someone tell me what is the real difference from borning to dying...?

That is called living and people have been searching for the meaning of life since they could first formulate the question. So you are amoung quite a large crowd, if I understand the question correctly.

Death is where the brain loses coherence and reaches an irretrievable state of decay. Or more specifically when the cells within the brain begin to breakdown and cease to function. Cells will typically begin to decay within 30 minutes of being starved of oxygen. The duration varies depending on the surrounding temperature.

Theoretically if the brain could be kept very cool from the moment of loss of heart beat, and perhaps even deep-frozen before any brain cells started to deteriorate, and if the cause of the bodily damage could be repaired and the heart restarted then it might be possible to re-animate the brain and final death averted. The period of freezing could theoretically be indefinite. These processes of cryonics are currently being used although the technology is still evolving, and as yet no one who has undergone cryogenic suspension has been restored, and no attempts to restore have been made yet.

Questions concerning life-energy, souls, etc, are outside the realm of science, and there is currently no scientific evidence to even suggest such speculative entities can or do exist.

After death: Once the brain cells decay irretrievably then all mental, memory, and cognitive functions that once represented the living person will be permanently lost. There is no scientific record of any person ever recovering from such a state.

Cris

StRgrl.

I thought that when we die, our "energy" is made into something else. I heard once before that energy does not just cease to exist but it - I guess you can say - mutates into something else. Is this true. Because if so, then we dont just "die", we turn into something else. No that is total BS. Any electrical potential remaining in the decaying brain cells and nervous system simply dissipates as heat into the surrounding decaying bio matter and environment. Such energy no longer has any organized coherence at that point.

Think of an electrical fan: When you turn it off the electric motor remains warm for a while until the heat dissipates into the surrounding air.

Cris

Truthseeker,

We don't turn into something else. Our conscience and our inconscience, which is made by energy and is ourselves (we are not our body, of course...) is released from our body. What Religious and Esoteric call Spirit is our conscient and unconscient together. People usually don't know there unconscient very well. But in some special cases, like dreaming or telepathy, is our unconscient's job. You are quoting these statements as if they are scientific facts. They most definitely are not and such spculations would be more appropriately discussed in the philosophy forum. Unless of course you can show any scientific research to support your claims.

Cris

Because we are all Energy, beamed into our human body, straight from the Cosmos, that is where you go back and from where you return.

Between death and being born again you are Energy in the Cosmos, like the Light Beings. It is not that difficult. It is just the Cosmos working here. Life and death are Natural and belong to our existence in the Cosmos. I don't know why there is such a fuzz about dying.

Everybody dies and from the first day you are born you have to live your life the best way you can. Nothing special, just be good to yourself and others.

Comments are welcome, as usual...;)

Banshee,

Part of our body contains energy and it certainly leaves us when we die. But the energy is not in any coherent or organized form, or are you suggesting that this ‘energy’ is some form of intelligence? You’d have to show your evidence of course.

Not all-living things die. Death does not have to be inevitable. Bacteria, for example, have no aging process. Theoretically the first bacteria from billions of years ago might still be alive providing they have been able to find food. There are also some species of cactus that also have no aging process. Their survival again simply depends on a permanent supply of nutrients, moisture, and energy from the sun.

Other more complex lifeforms tend to age because of the complexity of their cells and the damage these cells incur during metabolism. Current anti-aging research is being able to demonstrate how aging processes can be slowed, reversed, or stopped.

There is nothing particularly natural about dying from old age, it is a disease to be treated like any other. Unfortunately we have become accustomed to thinking of aging as being natural and inevitable. That is very likely to change within the next 15 years, at least that is the estimate that is coming out of places like the Geron corporation for commercially available effective anti-aging treatments.

Cris

If Im understanding Cris correctly, then Death is a transition. A change from one state to another.


bjl

Bobby,

Well I’m not sure you have captured my intention, but yes you are correct in a somewhat obscure manner.

Human death is the irretrievable loss of a cohesive organized biological matrix that held the cognitive essence of a sentient entity. Or in other words the maximization of entropy for a given individual.

Death could be seen as the transition from an organized state to a disorganized state with no hope of a return path.

I in no way implied that the transition is from an organized state to another but different organized state. Death involves a massive loss.

Cris

Death IS a Natural fact which belongs with life. It is ridiculous how humans now-a-days keep other humans alive as long as possible. When your time has come, let it be so. The inventions and technology to keep humans alive as long as possible is resulting in a crowded population of humans all over the world. You really think that is the purpose of human live? And I am talking humans here, no other life-forms, for they are not relevant in this picture. Humans are the only beings on Earth who do these kind of silly things.

Keep the human race alive at any cost.:confused: It is ridiculous. All the artificial garbage they invent. Just because they are afraid of death. I disagree totally with this science. They invent and invent. Don't humans have something better to do in life? Take care for the humans who dy of starvation for instance? With all the inventions they do, there is never taken care of the humans who really need some of these inventions.

What a rotten species the human race is...:(

Banshee,

Death IS a Natural fact which belongs with life.Why?

It is ridiculous how humans now-a-days keep other humans alive as long as possible. Before modern medical science, or rather let’s say 1000 years ago, you would be very lucky to reach the age of 30. The rich might make it. But remember there was no knowledge of bacteria and hygiene, so your life would have been miserable. Spots, boils, skin rashes, ticks, fleas, frequent vomiting and diarrhea, were all common parts of every day life. It was extremely rare to die of old age. Heart attacks virtually never occurred. Small pox (the pox) was one of the greatest killers, but simple flu, pneumonia, tuberculosis, polio, etc., etc, etc., were rife and killed billions.

Science has given you a quality of life that you now take for granted, and you dare to criticize it, are you mad?

When your time has come, let it be so.Define ‘when your time has come’? Who decides? Why are you so fatalist? Do you not have a zest for life that makes you want to achieve and experience as much as you can? Why would any rational person welcome and accept death rather than fight for survival? I don’t understand you.

The inventions and technology to keep humans alive as long as possible is resulting in a crowded population of humans all over the world. But the solution isn’t to kill them off or let them die. We have a vast universe around us, let’s find ways to leave this puny little planet and find more space for ourselves.

You really think that is the purpose of human live? And I am talking humans here, no other life-forms, for they are not relevant in this picture. Humans are the only beings on Earth who do these kind of silly things. Life is the most precious and valuable thing we can possibly have. The alternative is non-existence and I have no intention of ever letting that happen if there is even the slightest hope that I can prevent it. Life is all we have and to simply give up and let it go is, to my mind, totally unacceptable.

Keep the human race alive at any cost. It is ridiculous. All the artificial garbage they invent. Just because they are afraid of death. I disagree totally with this science.Why oh why do you want to die?

What a rotten species the human race is...We are the most advanced species on the planet. We have achieved a quality of life for ourselves way beyond the abilities of any other living thing. And we are only just beginning to fathom the DNA codes and the structure of biological life. We have in our hands the solutions to achieving unlimited lifespans, and fabulous ever changing and advancing technologies that are going to make life more fun and enjoyable beyond imagination.

Don’t be frightened of change or progress, join in and make it happen, and embrace life and everything that it has to offer. The alternative is your permanent non-existence, and you can’t show me anything that shows that that isn’t true.

Actually you sound kinda depressed, hope you are OK.

Best wishes
Cris

Death is similiar to the birth...
thats for sure.

bye!

Originally posted by zion
Death is similiar to the birth...
thats for sure.

bye! ??? Please explain.

They invent and invent. Don't humans have something better to do in life?

What do you suggest Banshee? Sit at the computer and whinge about it? Why not give up that 'artificial garbage' that 'they' have come up with, and go seek your light beams or whatever.

My aren't we all getting a little tetchy over a little thing like death.
I thought the whole point of this site was to put across our point of view for rational analysis, not to see who's queen bitch.

Anyhow, That's me !! :cool:

I think a million different people on the subject of death will give a million diferent answers. And we don't all have to agree. So Maybe we should try not to sprinkle so much piss on each others bonfire. Waddayasay?:D

Live long, never die and remember... If at first you don't succeed - bungee jumping may not be for you!

Peace

Because we are all Energy, beamed into our human body, straight from the Cosmos, that is where you go back and from where you return.

How do you rationalize with that, BBCBoy?

Deepuz

Maybe it's about acceptance.
Maybe it's about interpretation. The big bang. The cosmos.
We are all star stuff. And while there are facts we can see about the functions of the body and the way it ceases to be. No-one ever came back after being dead long enough to explain with any proof exactly what does happen. So we can't with any certainty say what happens to us.

Our bodies are a different matter, we can see that death makes us decompose and that's it.

Our essence, our individuality and what happens to it at the moment of death cannot be explained or with any certainty be simply ruled to cease along with our mortal coil.
So for some we change into another form through reincarnation.
For others we simply go to heaven or hell whichever is the most suitable and for some we return to the cosmos as a strand of individual energy.
Whatever belief system exists in that individual could be the truth or complete pants. This doesn't give you or anyone else the right to dismiss it so freely when you have no proof of an alternative.

Is that rational enough for ya?

Whatever belief system exists in that individual could be the truth or complete pants. This doesn't give you or anyone else the right to dismiss it so freely when you have no proof of an alternative.



Errr. Where did I dismiss anything bbcboy?

Deepuz

I refer you to your last post. Which seemed pretty dismissive to me. I could be wrong and indeed am happy to be if that is the case. It just seemed that your replies to Banshee were a little aggressive and more to the point, quite rude.

I'm sure as a mediator she can look after herself and needs no defending by me. You did ask me the question and so I answered it. Thing is with writing you can't hear any inflection so if your previous words were meant in a way other than my understanding accept my apologies. All I would ask is you make better use of the explanatory tools available to reduce any risk of the same mistake.

If on the other hand my interpretation was correct then I stand by my response. A little objectivity goes a long way.

:)

bbcboy, you wrote:
I thought the whole point of this site was to put across our point of view for rational analysis

then you went on to say, after I had asked you to try to rationalize banshee's point of view:


Whatever belief system exists in that individual could be the truth or complete pants.

Which seems to negate the idea for rational analysis of anything anybody says.

Anyway. My point to Banshee is why he/she feels so negative towards the human race. I wonder how Banshee feels the human race would have gotten on without invention, and without the 'artificial garbage' we are so intent on creating.

If the point of this site is for everybody to give their opinion without those opinions being questioned, I think I must be in the wrong forum.

I certainly was not trying to 'piss on anyobody's bonfire'. If my posts appeared a little tetchy I apologise, but believe it or not, I feel quite offended when the whole human race is tarred with the same brush and called 'a rotten species'.

:D I'm all smiles this time!

My two quotes in your last post could be construed as contradicory I conceed. The point here is all encompassing. The context in which things are said cannot be truly displayed in this format. What we would really need to do is get together in the same room. Have eye contact, and probably something illegal to help us along. :cool:

I do have to question your motives on one point. You say that you feel uncertain as to Banshee's take on the world. That's fine you have every right to question what's said otherwise we wouldn't say it here. What you did was openly and seemingly prejudicially belittle the opinions and /or beliefs of a fellow user. This speaks volumes about your opinion of others whom you know little about and it seems you feel that amount of knowledge is sufficient to allow you freedom to make that judgement. Right back at ya what's your problem with the human race, that you can be so judgemental. :confused:

All that said (Because I can go on and on ask anyone with the stamina to love me!!) You seem to have a very strong personality. I like that :D let's be friends, no enemies, no friends, no enemies no.....


Friends?

C Ya :D :D :D

bbcboy, you wrote:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought the whole point of this site was to put across our point of view for rational analysis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



then you went on to say, after I had asked you to try to rationalize banshee's point of view:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whatever belief system exists in that individual could be the truth or complete pants.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deepuz


The purpose of the Forums is to rationalize ideas and thoughts.

That can only happen when those ideas and thoughts are not summarily dismissed or ridiculed.

And even if those thoughts or ideas are by popular discussion and concensus declared generally invalid;
People are entitled to beliefs.

You can disagree, but you don't need to attack. :)


let's be friends, no enemies, no friends, no enemies no.....


Friends?

bbcboy

Yes.

Lets.
That's part of what this whole forums thing is about, surely!


On the point of us coming from and returning to the cosmos:

The universe began and all matter was scattered.
The first stars formed.
Before any of the stars that actually exist at the momet in the universe were here, those first stars went novae and supernovae.
The matter from those stars became the matter from which stella systems are made up.
This means that all of the matter on earth came from the same source.

We are all stardust.

Physically at least, every part of what you are, was a part of a stellar body.

You, we, us, everyone will die.

In billions of years, the sun will go nova.

We will become part of the next generation of stars.

Back to where we came from.

Thou art dust and to dust thou will return.

It's fair to say that we are all stars!! :)

Re. "Science has given you a quality of life that you now take for granted ... "

Sorry, but it was the engineers and architects that gave us the 'quality
of life' that we now take for granted. Without the improvements in sani-
tation as early as 400 BC, 'science' (ex. Pasteur, 1822/95) might still
be down the road a ways.

Take care ;)

Re. "If at first you don't succeed - bungee jumping may not be for you!"

Definitely not skydiving!

Take care ;)

Originally posted by Chagur
Re. "Science has given you a quality of life that you now take for granted ... "

Sorry, but it was the engineers and architects that gave us the 'quality
of life' that we now take for granted. Without the improvements in sani-
tation as early as 400 BC, 'science' (ex. Pasteur, 1822/95) might still
be down the road a ways.

Take care ;)

I bet you anything you like that those early architects and engineers did a lot of experiments before thay got something to work correctly. It may not have been the formal science of today but the process of trial and error and logical reason was basically the same then as it is now.

You may not recognize it as such but any process that builds on existing or discovers new knowledge is science.

Cris

Well you could call Death an "Absolute", as there is absolutely nothing more you can do once you've achieved it.
(*Watches everyone in a blind state of panic trying to achieve things before time forces it's own goal*)

From another perspective a person I know mentioned you about 1 second away from a parallel world, you could possible transfer to a parallel through some mantra.(waking up from a slumber after you survive an incident. etc)

Death shouldn't be feared, but not fearing it is scarier than death. (Due to the fact that you lose your natural insight into being concerned)

Re. "You may not recognize it as such but any process that builds
on existing or discovers new knowledge is science.

Goody! Just Science and Religion! Sure simplifies everything.

Ahh ... Just don't mention it to the mathematicians. Okay?

Thanx :D

Take care ;)

Originally posted by Chagur
Re. "You may not recognize it as such but any process that builds
on existing or discovers new knowledge is science.

Goody! Just Science and Religion! Sure simplifies everything.

Ahh ... Just don't mention it to the mathematicians. Okay?

Thanx :D

Take care ;)

You think maybe my assertion was a little too broad huh? :D

Mathematicians? They don't count. Math is an entirely different universe, and largely beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.

I guess I can usually count on you for pulling me up when perhaps I go too far. My statement needs re-phrasing to express what I meant but I've run out of energy for today.

esp wrote:
That can only happen when those ideas and thoughts are not summarily dismissed or ridiculed.

bbcboy wrote:
What you did was openly and seemingly prejudicially belittle the opinions and /or beliefs of a fellow user.

Banshee wrote:
What a rotten species the human race is...

When those comments made are themselves ridiculous, dismissive, belittling and downright insulting to the human race as a whole (which includes me and you all), do you not think a little facetiousness in my questions to Banshee is somewhat understandable?

The human race.
Could it already be run?

There are elements in every culture on earth that are rotten.

Apathy is becoming the natural state of man.

The nuclear family and it's values are breaking down.

In our enlightened time, people in the first world still exploit those in the second and third.

f there are more people alive at the moment than have ever died, surely there are more bad people alive now than have ever lived.
All those Hitlers and Rasputins.

'Twixt this and the corruption we see at all levels of authority, I think that the premise that the human race is rotten is tenable.

Find one rotten apple in a bag, do you chance biting into the others?
It doesn't mean that the whole bag is rotten, but you wouldn't say that it was a bag of good apples.

Originally posted by esp
'Twixt this and the corruption we see at all levels of authority, I think that the premise that the human race is rotten is tenable.

Find one rotten apple in a bag, do you chance biting into the others?
It doesn't mean that the whole bag is rotten, but you wouldn't say that it was a bag of good apples. [/B]

Wouldn't you search through the bag saving the large majority of good apples from the rot? Instead of writing the whole lot off.

Perhaps.
Depends on the value of the apples.

Even so, you still wouldn't describe the whole bag as good apples.

There are many many virtuous people out in the world, this fact is not in dispute.
Society is not healthy. The human race, by action and omission, as a whole, is bad.

Maybe you shouldn't take umbrage at comments directed at the species as a whole. I'm fairly certain that Banshee was not writing with you personally in mind.

I know I personally am not rotten.
If you can say the same of yourself, is that not enough?
;)

Origibnally posted by esp
The human race.
Could it already be run?

There are elements in every culture on earth that are rotten.

Apathy is becoming the natural state of man.

The nuclear family and it's values are breaking down.

In our enlightened time, people in the first world still exploit those in the second and third.

f there are more people alive at the moment than have ever died, surely there are more bad people alive now than have ever lived.
All those Hitlers and Rasputins.

'Twixt this and the corruption we see at all levels of authority, I think that the premise that the human race is rotten is tenable.



All those things are pretty true... and make me sick about the human race. Can we learn with our mistakes? Can we just Love each other and live in peace?

Blessings,
Nelson

try to find good in yourself and humans, or you might destroy yourself with the haterid you concentate towards men (you are human I presume).

this might be considered as babbling if you like, I'm writting an essay now about moral standarts and my mind is quite tuned to the theme now. ;) :D

Avatar...

I search for the tiniest kernal of value in every individual who I come into contact with.
For the most part, and this is only myself, I am fortunate enough to have good people as friends and colleagues. It is rare that I meet someone who is rotten.
I am still aware, however of the way of the world and the driving forces behind many of it's denizens. They can be enough to make your blood run cold.

Still, here's to philanthropy.

I would mention that there are very very few of those here at the forums who I would put into the black-hearted category.
Well done everyone!

:)

Hmm... What evil comes from judging others? I think all of the apples are bruised, while a few are rotten.

People who think they'll never die are ammusing. You've already been dead for billions of years, was it that bad? You're returning to that eventually no matter what you do, you can delay it but not stop it. (Unless you prefer to take a perspective outside time, in which all the moments you lived in exist at once along with the moments you don't exist in.)


Originally posted by esp
if there are more people alive at the moment than have ever died

Just a correction: Isn't the total number of humans who've ever lived around 85 billion? That's what I recall. Only 6 billion alive now. So, about 79 billion more have died than currently live.

Hoth

I'm astonished you can recall all the people who ever lived. Can you remember my granpa, see we want to go camping and can't lay hands on the mallet.

I seem to remember the more people alive than dead thing too. It may be apocryphal Or it could be alive at once. Hell I dunno who needs that kind of math in their lives?

Peaceful death to you all, but only when you're ready :D

Death is an illusion. The Universe is alive. Energy is just a form of Life (or is the opposite? The discussion is opened...). Death is just a transformation from a form of Life to another. The conscience is eternal, otherwise, you wouldn't exist. ;)

Many Blessings,
Nelson

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
The conscience is eternal, otherwise, you wouldn't exist. ;)


Mind you explaining me, why "you wouldn't exist" statement.

Avatar,
Sure I explain to you.

The conscience is eternal, otherwise, you wouldn't exist.

This means, first, that you ARE your conscience. Actually, you are a Spirit that has conscience and subconscience. Your conscience you are using now. Your subconscience is what you have from before your birthday and from your future. You have to work to have acess to your subconscient. The conscience I was talking there was the Spirit. Better call it with capital letters: "Conscience".

Here are the whole "memory" you have:

past before birth| birth.............. present | future

The parts separeted by "|" are the walls between your conscient and subconscient. To break the walls, you have to meditate. You have to concentrate in your Silence so that you can access your Inner-Self. You have to be more "aware of subtle energies".

The Conscience is eternal because you are your conscience. Imagine if it weren't eternal. You wouldn't have existed before, neither today, neither in the future. Conscience is eternal because time is an illusion. When you look to the sky, what do you see? You see stars how they were millons of years ago! Time is an illusion created by light.

Well, I hope this is enough.

Blessings,
Nelson

Truthsekker,

Death is an illusion. Ok. Drown yourself and then describe the illusion to me.

The Universe is alive. Just like a rock is alive right?

Energy is just a form of Life (or is the opposite? The discussion is opened...). So is it life or isn’t it? You didn’t say anything other than to indicate you have no idea what you are saying.

Death is just a transformation from a form of Life to another.So provide an example.

The conscience is eternal, otherwise, you wouldn't exist.A wonderful jumble of confused ideas that results in a completely meaningless statement. I’m amazed how well you can type while still in a deep dream state. And your explanation to Avatar didn’t help one jot.

Cris

I lean towards the idea that spirit and body are incomplete without the other...like water in a bottle maybe. If such a thing as spirit does exists, my assumption is that, without a medium through which to see, it is blind.

Not so bad written Truth Seeker, but unfortunately Cris is right. you didn't help me much. That what you said could be said by anybody and you didn't have any facts to cover your theory nor no examples. If I beleived everything I heard................can not even imagine;)
I don't deny tht there could be smth after we die, but until I have no facts to prove it, I will not accept it either. With only one beleif and n-thing more you can not find the truth.
Cheers!

Originally posted by bbcboy
I'm astonished you can recall all the people who ever lived. Can you remember my granpa, see we want to go camping and can't lay hands on the mallet.

Sorry, I don't see dead people, I only recall hearing the number a while back. ;)

Just did a search and came up with a site that says your recollection is based on old ideas: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~bjmcg/story2_peple_lived.html

That disagrees with the 85 billion estimate I heard also, and gives 109 billion as the guess.

Here's one that says 96 billion: http://www.math.hawaii.edu/~ramsey/People.html

Anyway, it's a lot more than 6 billion. So, obviously, most of us are dead. :D

Bowser,

Originally posted by Bowser:
I lean towards the idea that spirit and body are incomplete without the other...like water in a bottle maybe. If such a thing as spirit does exists, my assumption is that, without a medium through which to see, it is blind.

Perfect analogy!
Good work Bowser! :D

Cris,

Be ashamed... :o

Ok. Drown yourself and then describe the illusion to me.

Look around you. What do you see? Illusion. Only illusion. The reality is that there are "trillons" of atoms all around you. There is no computer. There is no house. There is only a bunch of atoms. Death is an illusion as much as everything we see around is.

An analogy to make it easier:
When you play a computer game, what is the reality? What you see in the screen or what you type in your keyboard and the way you move your mouse? I can't mistake the sreen for the reality because I know that I'm moving the mouse and typing the keyboard. But you misunderstand it because you don't see the keyboard and the mouse. You think that what you see in your screen is the reality.

The same is Plato's allegory of the Cave. In this allegory, Plato describes a cave where everyone is chained on the wall. He says that everyone is looking to the wall and the entrance of the cave, where light come from, is right behind them. The chained people can only see the shadows. The phylosophers (in those times, phylosophers and enlightened people were the same) could see the light coming from outside. So, they never mistaken the shadows from the reality.

This is what is happening with you. Everything you see are shadows. You see illusions and imperfections because you look to the shadows instead of looking to the light.
I'm seeing the light. I see the perfection, Love. You can't because you are drowned on your illusions and your Spirit is shouting:
Listen to Him!

Just like a rock is alive right?

Sure! Everything is alive! Energy is everywhere! This doesn't means that a rock has Conscience as we have, but means that it has energy.

So is it life or isn’t it? You didn’t say anything other than to indicate you have no idea what you are saying.

Life is a form of Energy. I let the discussion opened because I dreamt that someone would say something intelligent instead of attack me...

Are you having a bad day? You seem stressed... If you are stressed, dump it at me. I don't mind. I prefer you to do this with me than with your children.

So provide an example.

There is only Energy in the Universe. Matter, for example, is a type of Energy. You can transform it in any kind of Energy. The dictionary says:

"energy [nd]
n., pl. -gies.
1. intensity or vitality of action or expression; forcefulness.
2. capacity or tendency for intense activity; vigour.
3. vigorous or intense action; exertion.
4. Physics.
a. the capacity of a body or system to do work.
b. a measure of this capacity, expressed as the work that it does in changing to some specified reference state.
It is measured in joules (SI units).
Symbol: E
See also {kinetic energy}, {potential energy}.
[ from Late Latin energia, from Greek energeia activity, from energos effective, from {en-2} + ergon work]"

As it is said, energy is the capacity to do work. You are alive, don't you? You do work, don't you? So, Life is a form of Energy and can be transformed in other kind of Energy. For example: heat. When we die, our bodies lose energy in form of heat and it becomes cold.

Life is an special kind because it allows the Conscience to be expressed into flesh.

A wonderful jumble of confused ideas that results in a completely meaningless statement. I’m amazed how well you can type while still in a deep dream state. And your explanation to Avatar didn’t help one jot.

Bowser gave an interesting explanation. Read it.

I'm tired of talking with you, Cris. You just attack me. It's not very healthy to discuss like this. If you don't grow up and enjoy a peacefull conversation, I won't listen to you anymore.

Avatar,
Thanks for being polite and don't attack me. You surely know how to live socially. You are right, I didn't explain very well. It's not easy to talk about this subject, mainly in English. Listen to Bowser, he gave a great idea. Perhaps he can explain it better to you if he know what I'm talking about. My English is not so good yet...

Blessings,
Nelson

To all who consider Planet Earth just as a rock and thus therefor a dead object...You are wrong.:) Planet Earth is very alive and kicking.

In everything and every living being, from musquito to human is Energy. All life will return after the Earth-bound 'package' they are wrapped up in, have died.

So therefor, every human on Earth has lived before and shall be born again. Energy, beamed into an Earth-bound body, right from the Cosmos.

Which doesn't say you can do anything you want here on Earth. You have to live your life in balance with Earth, Nature and the Cosmos.

Conclusion: Live your life in good understanding with other humans and have respect for every living being, human, animal, forests and Planet Earth.

Death is nothing to be afraid of, just the end of a life-time... ;)

If life is just energy, and energy is the capacity to do work, then is life simply the capacity to do work? Life is motion? I suppose that's true as far as the life of the universe itself (when the universe hits absolute zero and all motion is gone, it can be considered dead), but it doesn't seem like the usual sense of the word life.

Banshee,
Great! :)

Hoth,

If life is just energy, and energy is the capacity to do work, then is life simply the capacity to do work? Life is motion? I suppose that's true as far as the life of the universe itself (when the universe hits absolute zero and all motion is gone, it can be considered dead), but it doesn't seem like the usual sense of the word life.

Life is not only work. But surely, work is an indicative of life. Life is complex to explain... The Universe is not dead (even though the temperature is very low). The Vacuum is plain of Life. It's why those particles are created there. Sorry... that's complex... it involves other dimensions than the four common ones...

Blessings,
Nelson

You do draw a distinction between alive and conscious, though? Some would say the universe is conscious.

I do agree that the universe is about energy and motion and interaction, and that there's obviously something very complex and unique about that. I just prefer a more scientific definition for alive, which involves for example reproduction. (As far as I know the universe doesn't reproduce, although parts of it do I suppose.)

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
that's complex... it involves other dimensions than the four common ones...

So life is like string theory? ;)

Hoth,

So life is like string theory?

I don't like very much string theory. The Universe is complex but not complicated. The Universe is really simple. Everything that is basic is simple. See us. We have trillons of cells with hundreds of functions. But see how simple is a single cell!

I do agree that the universe is about energy and motion and interaction, and that there's obviously something very complex and unique about that. I just prefer a more scientific definition for alive, which involves for example reproduction. (As far as I know the universe doesn't reproduce, although parts of it do I suppose.)

Yes, the Universe reproduce itself. Why do you think there are Black Holes!?!? :D

My theories are crazy but are very simple... ;)

Blessings,
Nelson

Re. "But see how simple is a single cell!"

You are kidding ... Aren't you?

I sure hope you are.

Take care :confused:

Chagur,
Why? A cell is pretty simple... only the names are difficult... :p
And you see that they all have their differences according to their function. Is pretty simple... :)

Blessings,
Nelson

TruthSeeker,

I agree the concept of the cell as a building block for larger structures seems simple but the cell itself is one of the most complex arenas of scientific research. I think it was that that Chagur was referring to.

Cris

Cris,

I agree the concept of the cell as a building block for larger structures seems simple but the cell itself is one of the most complex arenas of scientific research. I think it was that that Chagur was referring to.

Sure! Because there is a connection with life...
Perhaps this is not the best example...
Lets see...

The Humble Constant. The General Relativity. Some simple but essential formulae:F=ma, E=mc2...
Space-Time... Gravity was simple... but it seems much ore complex now...

Well, if we are thinking about an essential theory, we should think about something essential. A singular thing, not a buch of things...

Blessings,
Nelson

If you're looking for something simple maybe you're looking in the wrong direction. When you look at things more closely they seem to get more complex rather than more simple. The world as we see it on the large scale is comparatively simple. Cells are much more complex. Then when you get down smaller, you run into things like string theory that are even more complex. There doesn't seem to be any simplicity in the building blocks, nor any progress in the direction of simplicity. The univeriverse is simple if you look at it from far enough away, more complex when you get closer.

Essential theory: things are.

If you ask "how?", you get into infinite complexity.

Hoth,

If you're looking for something simple maybe you're looking in the wrong direction. When you look at things more closely they seem to get more complex rather than more simple. The world as we see it on the large scale is comparatively simple. Cells are much more complex. Then when you get down smaller, you run into things like string theory that are even more complex. There doesn't seem to be any simplicity in the building blocks, nor any progress in the direction of simplicity. The univeriverse is simple if you look at it from far enough away, more complex when you get closer.

I meant... that when you approach closely to the infinite big and infinite small you find patterns... the basic patterns of the Universe... which are pretty simple...

If you ask "how?", you get into infinite complexity.

Surely...!! :D

Blessings,
Nelson

:eek:

For what type of death do you refer?
Death of mind, body, spirit, soul, memories, consciousness.
For death is different in the eye of the beholder.
Different to us all.

Would it be the same for someone who passes from suicide, to the murdered, to the natural death or to the unnatural death.

If we are born out of cells, and live a life fueled by energy is life itself energy. Is energy life. And if electricity is energy. And our movements and actions rely on that energy or electrical impulse, it can be said that in death, if we rely on the proven scientific fact that energy cannot be destroy or even end, we do not stop being but change into another form of energy. Like all other forms of energy.

A thought...
Our memories are stores as electrical impulses within cells.
If we remember someone who is dead, are they truly dead, or is there a continuance of energy conducted within us that we percieve as a memory?

Ones legacy continues to live-on inside the minds of others.

We are a part of everything and everything is a part of us. Proven by Einstiens theory of energy and mass. E=Mc2
An action must be followed by a reaction.

Nothign last forever... even the universe will someday grow cold or big crunck and there will be nothing left. For there to be no death there must be no change, and if there is no change there is no time. If there is no time there is no thought!...

you know me (everything in a nutshell approach) ...death is a series of chemical reactions; some firing and some misfiring.

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
What is Death? What is its purpose?
I am a precise person and don’t like too much guessing, so I’ll come back once I’m dead and tell you all about it. Anything short of that is just a speculation.
:D

several options
for death.....


what if your consciousness becomes so unconscious that
you never actually witness your own death because you
become engulfed in an endless state of unconscious
conscious living.
so your death is as significant to you as feeding the dog
or turning on the coffee maker. automatic becuase you
are so consumed with the eternity you have chosen.
hmmm.

then there's escaping this life through a wormhole and being born
into an alternate reality, the other side of this world, like a mirror
image.

without death there cannot be life

Lots of people here make wildly speculative statements like 'life is just energy from the cosmos' or 'when you die your life energy is transformed into another state that transcends consciousness and takes you to the upper plain of blahblahblah.' The thing is, this is the 'general science' forum. It’s fine for you to have some nutty theory about 'life energy' and what happens to it when you die, but it's expected that you will be able to explain why you believe in a logical way. And I don't mean teleological half-logic, like 'all of life is a cosmic cycle of death and rebirth, so obviously blahblahblah.'

the proper term is some nutts so HYPOTHESIS not Theory. things like that do not deserver a title like Theory... doing that besmerches the name of science.

There’s lots of angles about death, everyone is free to choose.
But what ever you choose, …Choose it wisely, it will only come ones!!

Have hear this in …indina jones?
:confused:

Originally posted by zurik
Our memories are stores as electrical impulses within cells.
If we remember someone who is dead, are they truly dead, or is there a continuance of energy conducted within us that we percieve as a memory?

So if I murder you but promise to remember doing it, it's not murder. :rolleyes: I hate energy-mysticism. Energy has no meaning outside of form, energy is nothing more than a form of things (like matter), which is exactly why it's conserved.

The energy from the chicken you ate last week is in your brain. Does this mean you have the mind of a chicken in your head? If you like someone, should you eat them when they die so that you conserve their energy in you?