I'm going to propose a hypothetical to you guys(which I guess is redundant considering the title). Some of you I'm sure will declare this situation to be impossible. Fine. If that's the case, then use your imagination.

You experience a genuinely religious/supernatural event. You cannot explain it by logic/reason. How do you react?

Again I realize this is ivory tower to some of you, but think about, and let me know what your response would be.

If it cannot be explained via logic or reason then it is unexplainable. We do not have any method superior to logic and reason for discovering new knowledge. Our conclusion is simply that we do not know, like so many other things in the universe that we do not yet understand.

Kat

So your reaction to it would be...nothing?

How else would one react?

Would you have us invent a complex and undetectable hierarchy of mysterious 'spirits' and disembodied 'forces' to explain it?

Hey if your reaction is nothing thats fine by me. Your decision.

i guess it would depend on the event, but when i saw a whole stadium pass out (myself included) during one of those religious events thats always on the gosspel channel, it made my beliefs even more concrete.

I have experienced such events that cannot really be explained by logic. Most religions would consider this as justification for belief. My reaction was disbelief. The ultimate reality is inherently unbelievable. I think if you believe in God, for example, you still have not seen him. One I had a vision of Jesus, who advised me about a certain course of events I should take. I didn't take the advice (yet), and things did turn out badly, but I still don't believe it.

Was that your first vision or have u had others(not especially about jesus).

You experience a genuinely religious/supernatural event. You cannot explain it by logic/reason. How do you react?

I would not really react, it proves nothing. It just poses more questions and gives no satisfying answers.

What would those questions be? What might they lead to?

What might they lead to ?

That is, what might they lead you to conclude.

Luck, I "explain" such things as luck.

Once in the winter in the mountains, I slipped on the ice, and was sliding towards the edge of the slope, but I somehow managed to use the ice pick and stopped myself from sliding -- a few meters before the edge. I'd otherwise fall into the white icy stony abyss, and be dead. Divine intervention? I say it was luck.

Not to mention the things I sometimes dream of ... Felicitious coincidences, luck.


Sometimes I feel that there is so much beauty in this world ... that I just can't take it ... I think that my heart will cave in ...

What would those questions be? What might they lead to?

Questions:

Was it God, does he really exist?
Is there more than one higher entity?
Were we attacked by aliens?
Was it mother earth? Have we angered her?
Was it a natural and coincidental event?
.....


There are more. And for every possible answers there are
several possible questions.

Luck, I "explain" such things as luck.

Once in the winter in the mountains, I slipped on the ice, and was sliding towards the edge of the slope, but I somehow managed to use the ice pick and stopped myself from sliding -- a few meters before the edge. I'd otherwise fall into the white icy stony abyss, and be dead. Divine intervention? I say it was luck.

Not to mention the things I sometimes dream of ... Felicitious coincidences, luck.


Sometimes I feel that there is so much beauty in this world ... that I just can't take it ... I think that my heart will cave in ...

No such thing as luck, else you'd be dead.

Jcarl,

So your reaction to it would be...nothing? Oh no quite the reverse. It would be one of deep and intense curiosity to understand an unexplained phenomenon. If as you say logic and reason can’t explain it then that can only mean there is no apparent evidence for the cause. The next step would be to search for an explanation using the best possible tools we have, i.e. logic and reason.

Kat

It is utterly idiotic to ignore something that you can't explain.

What if people still ignored why there is a sun in the sky, because they couldn't explain it?

What if people still ignored why plants can heal people because they couldn't explain it?

Do you realy define logic as something that everyone else tells you to be real, instead of what you yourself experience?

THINK don't be a sheep.

You experience a genuinely religious/supernatural event. You cannot explain it by logic/reason. How do you react?

I suppose that I would have to admit to the existance of a higher power that is beyond what I can comprehend.

I'm going to propose a hypothetical to you guys(which I guess is redundant considering the title). Some of you I'm sure will declare this situation to be impossible. Fine. If that's the case, then use your imagination.

You experience a genuinely religious/supernatural event. You cannot explain it by logic/reason. How do you react?

Again I realize this is ivory tower to some of you, but think about, and let me know what your response would be.

Everything has a reason for happening, for you and me, as a simple human beings, that reason may be hard to comprehand :) The thing is, when you find yourself in such a situation, well, you do not react at all, you just stand there :) However, someone else might react diferently... And imho everything can be explained 'reasonably'

A Christian would react properly.


All others would react as they do, ignorantly.


//Awaits the consequent flaming with childish glee. :D

What defines "properly?"

You experience a genuinely religious/supernatural event. You cannot explain it by logic/reason. How do you react?
.
Im curious, what is a religious/supernatural event?

§outh§tar

A Christian would react properly.

Enigma'07

What defines "properly?"

Well not all visions that seem like they are from God are from God. But visions come with a message. So i would compare the message with the Word Of God to see if it was from God or not. I have never had visions myself but i have had dreams.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

What defines "properly?"

correctly.

Judging by his evasive and ambiguous posts, it looks like SouthStar will not admit to how he would truly react since to say anything supportive of the event knowing that logic and reason are not available would be an admission of being irrational, illogical and unreasonable. But then that is the proper, correct, and only reaction one would expect from a Christian.

Kat

Originally posted by Katazia:
It would be one of deep and intense curiosity to understand an unexplained phenomenon. If as you say logic and reason can’t explain it then that can only mean there is no apparent evidence for the cause. The next step would be to search for an explanation using the best possible tools we have, i.e. logic and reason.

My response would be similar.

But, aren't logic and reason ultimately based on your own perception?
Is there a way to register an event without the logic filters inherent in our perception? Would the event register in memory? If not, what's stopping the idea that we could and do have these phenomenon every day?

correctly.

Yeah, but what is correctly. What are they supposed to do to act correctly?

Judging by his evasive and ambiguous posts, it looks like SouthStar will not admit to how he would truly react since to say anything supportive of the event knowing that logic and reason are not available would be an admission of being irrational, illogical and unreasonable. But then that is the proper, correct, and only reaction one would expect from a Christian.

Kat


How quick you are to judge. And above all, you have reached a shameful conclusion!


There is no one way for a Christian to act considering the Holy Spirit works miracles but there are some things we would all do:

Fall down on our face (fear)
- Happens in Isaiah 5
- Abscond (Moses does it when the burning bush...)
- Marvel (Self-explanatory)

As for some/most Gentiles:
- Behave like the Pharisees did when Jesus peformed His miracles.


I am sure you still have scorn in your heart so maybe this will put it in better perspective:

38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."
39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one[5] greater than Jonah is here. 42The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here.

Such denial...

Im curious, what is a religious/supernatural event?

My interpretation of a religious/supernatural event would be anything that gives the observer an inkling of a reason to believe that there is a deity. My ideal situation would be where something traumatic happened(car wreck, etc) and the person avoided death or maiming. If I were that person, and this is probably a reflection of my bias, I would be hard pressed to not see something divine in that. Some of you may call it luck, but I personally don't believe such a thing doesn't exist.

Jcarl,

Oh no quite the reverse. It would be one of deep and intense curiosity to understand an unexplained phenomenon. If as you say logic and reason can’t explain it then that can only mean there is no apparent evidence for the cause.[/B]

Not necessarily. We may know that something caused something else, but that doesn't mean that we are able to explain why that happens.

Jcarl,

My emphasis was on explaining the cause not explaining why, but understanding the cause often goes a long way to explaining the why.

Kat

A Christian would react properly.
What would be the proper reaction if this truely religious experience involved allah?

allah has not performed any miracles therefore he/it/she doesn't count.

//Awaits the consequent flaming with childish glee. :D

Now that ain't Christian, and you know it.

You experience a genuinely religious/supernatural event. You cannot explain it by logic/reason. How do you react?.

Firstly to a logical thinker, it would not be a genuine, religious or supernatural.
Secondly for every action there must be a reaction, therefore your only conclusion, would that it's unknown at the present time, put I cant ever seeing that happening.
and you'd proberly not give it a second thought.

I was once ask If god, changed all the clouds into words, would that convince you of the existence of god, I said, who see's this happen, the answer, just you . So I said hullicination.
so then I was ask, what if others were there, then I would question the possiblity of mass hypnosis I would always question as there is no logic to clouds reforming into words (example) so I and all the thinkers of world, would continue to look for an answer, as we know a logical one, will turn up eventually.

allah has not performed any miracles therefore he/it/she doesn't count.
So anyone who has performed something that cannot be explained other than using the word miracle counts, so if it was something not to do with christianity and was a truely religious experience what would be the proper reaction for a christian?

My interpretation of a religious/supernatural event would be anything that gives the observer an inkling of a reason to believe that there is a deity. My ideal situation would be where something traumatic happened(car wreck, etc) and the person avoided death or maiming. If I were that person, and this is probably a reflection of my bias, I would be hard pressed to not see something divine in that. Some of you may call it luck, but I personally don't believe such a thing doesn't exist.

My interpretation is that any event so truly different as to be supernatural and out of the realm of ordinary experience would not result in the acknowledgement of a "deity", because such easy definitions come out of our linear language-based mode of being and do not apply. There is common to such experiences the notion of the dissolving of boundries; between self and other, between deity and ordinary. If anything, I think the recognition of our own devine nature would happen. All this means is that there is no separation between higher and lower, you and I are the same stuff as the rest of reality, which is not what we ordinarily think it is.

there is no logic to clouds reforming into words
there actually is a chance of this happening. one that is so remote i don't have the endurance to type out all of the zeros.

i have seen chairs levitate and spin in mid air. i have seen dark figures walking through my room. i have seen hats disappear and reappear a second later. supernatural events? i would call them hallucinations.

and southstar, if a guy with horns and a pitchfork appeared in your room to say he'd see you in fifteen years, what would you call that?

How quick you are to judge. And above all, you have reached a shameful conclusion!


There is no one way for a Christian to act considering the Holy Spirit works miracles but there are some things we would all do:

Fall down on our face (fear)
- Happens in Isaiah 5
- Abscond (Moses does it when the burning bush...)
- Marvel (Self-explanatory)

As for some/most Gentiles:
- Behave like the Pharisees did when Jesus peformed His miracles.


I am sure you still have scorn in your heart so maybe this will put it in better perspective:

38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."
39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one[5] greater than Jonah is here. 42The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here.

Such denial...

Even when they did see a miraculous sign they reacted like this:

Mark 3
22And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, "He has Beelzebub," and, "By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons."

LOL There is no pleasing some people.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

G`day...

Quote Adstar:
"Even when they did see a miraculous sign they reacted like this:

Mark 3
22And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, "He has Beelzebub," and, "By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons."

Why does your god feel the need to impress folk by using smoke and mirrors, and a David Copperfield floor show?

Quote Adstar:
"LOL There is no pleasing some people."

Yup, David Copperfield can never please me.

Allcare.

Firstly to a logical thinker, it would not be a genuine, religious or supernatural.[/B]

I think to a naturalist, it would not be genuine. This isn't necessarily the same thing as a logical thinker.

so then I was ask, what if others were there, then I would question the possiblity of mass hypnosis I would always question as there is no logic to clouds reforming into words (example) so I and all the thinkers of world, would continue to look for an answer, as we know a logical one, will turn up eventually.

Define logically. Naturalistic? Isn't that begging the question that naturalism is right?

My interpretation of a religious/supernatural event would be anything that gives the observer an inkling of a reason to believe that there is a deity. My ideal situation would be where something traumatic happened(car wreck, etc) and the person avoided death or maiming. If I were that person, and this is probably a reflection of my bias, I would be hard pressed to not see something divine in that. Some of you may call it luck, but I personally don't believe such a thing doesn't exist.
thats interesting,b/c serious head on accident happened to me once,on friday 13th no less, :eek:
(coincidence imo since on friday and saturday many people are in a big rush and usualy have few drinks too,,no superstitions here!)

...and since Im smart enough to always buckle up when driving,
I dont think I can thank god or my lucky stars for saving me.

now if god reached down and straightened up the mangled wreckage returning it to its original shape,also instantly curing the big bruise on my chest where I hit the steering wheel,it might qualify as some kind of miracle,

but then, who knows if there arent some highly advanced alien beings observing our planet,who can manipulate/shape matter into any form? ;)

wouldnt they seem like gods to us?

Now that ain't Christian, and you know it.

Psalm 119

12 Who can discern his errors?
Forgive my hidden faults.
13 Keep your servant also from willful sins;
may they not rule over me.
Then will I be blameless,
innocent of great transgression.

:(

there actually is a chance of this happening. one that is so remote i don't have the endurance to type out all of the zeros.

i have seen chairs levitate and spin in mid air. i have seen dark figures walking through my room. i have seen hats disappear and reappear a second later. supernatural events? i would call them hallucinations.

and southstar, if a guy with horns and a pitchfork appeared in your room to say he'd see you in fifteen years, what would you call that?

I would first remind myself that the devil does not have "horns and a pitchfork".

And then I would pat myself on the back for being a Christian.

:D just kidding.


I'd pray.

G`day...

Quote Adstar:
"Even when they did see a miraculous sign they reacted like this:

Mark 3
22And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, "He has Beelzebub," and, "By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons."

Why does your god feel the need to impress folk by using smoke and mirrors, and a David Copperfield floor show?

Quote Adstar:
"LOL There is no pleasing some people."

Yup, David Copperfield can never please me.

Allcare.

I hear Sigfried and Roy put on a great show..