For all practical purposes, it's over and while there are a few holdouts (Graveland, Averse Sefira, Havohej) the genre as a whole has collapsed.

What did it mean?

First, you'll have to ask yourself: can music communicate more than aesthetic?

Second, what did it communicate?

Third, in the time that it existed, what did that communication imply about the world and the philosophies of those living in it?

Is art more experience than philosophy? Good: then tell us what the experience meant, including the conclusions drawn from it, since all experiences end over time.

http://www.burzum.com/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=Sound;action=display;num=1097373095

I dont think black metal is dead,
thats like saying pop music is dead just because it dont sound like it did 50 years ago,or rock music or any genre.

It changes,i think it started with venom,they coined the term black metal in a song,but thier music wasnt,more the philosophy behind the music.

Deicide is death metal,by music sound but you could call them black metal by lyrics and image.

What did it mean?
mostly satanic image folded into an extremely fast based thrash metal with classical music style,sometimes pointlessly noisy and incoherent while other times being tuneful and melodic.

I also do not think that black metal is dead, there are still lots of BM bands around and they are quite good, for example, Mayhem, Darkthrone, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Emperor...

One could say that the music and perhaps even some of the ideas have changed, but then again, everything changes over time. You could also ask if Heavy Metal is dead, just because it no longer sounds like in the 70s.

AS to the meaning of Black Metal, that's a tricky one, there are bands that have the classical satanic appearance, songs and ideas (some also pagan). But I have learned that the true Black Metal bands normally have a nihilistic ideology and some also propagate the concept of the übermensch or the aryan race or superior race in general.
Some stay true to this concept, others are only black metal by definition of the music style. But it is still there.

"What did black metal mean?"

It depends on the band, the listener and the timeframe.

Black metal today means Cradle of Filth and Satyricon, interchangably. At its best black metal is an artwork, and at its worse black metal is trendy howling about darkness in tune with synth-dominated instrumentals. On the level of ideas, black metal is a mature expression of a philosophy, or a purile rebellion against society and jesus.

Black metal at its best is individualist, self-conscious, masterful. This is Darkthrone, this is Bathory, this is Emperor when Emperor was good. Black metal can be a revel in the vile and hateful, this is Deicide when Deicide is good, this is what makes good grindcore good. Black metal can be escapist, melancholy and dreamy - this is early Mayhem, this is later Burzum, this is the best of Rotting Christ. Black metal can be ideological, aggressive and political - this is Graveland, this is Amon Amarth, this is Bathory in the Viking phase and this is Nokturnal Mortem.

Black metal is any and all of these things. Classification can only render an artificial order, and judgement - while necessary - can demean the genre. It would be as wrong to outright condemn the masochistic element in black metal, the "I slit my wrists in the freezing Northern cold", as it is for some to outright condemn the National Socialist elements.

Black metal can be any attempt to be the above. Those sort of bands predominate, but black metal is not dead, any more than the existence of hundreds of poor composers meant classical music was dead in 1760s. History filters the best.

Black metal is dark and fast music using melodic development to express its themes. Of all the metals, this is the most communicative with the modern listener, expressing nihilism and a heroic anti-social assertion of the self. Evolving simultaneously with death metal, this genre includes all of the technique and rhythmic intensity of the former with more emotive and comprehensible poetic communication within the music.

House recommendations: Averse Sefira, Burzum, Emperor, Ildjarn,Antaeus, Graveland, and Sacramentum.

Abruptum
Absu
Absurd
Abyss, the
Ancient
Angelcorpse
Antaeus
Arcturus
Auzhia
Avenger
Averse Sefira
Axis of Advance
Bathory
Behemoth
Beherit
Belial
Black Goat
Blasphemy
Blazemth
Blood
Burzum
Celtic Frost
Conqueror
Cultus Sanguine
Dark Funeral
DarkThrone
Dark Tranquility
Dawn
Deinonychius
Demonic
Demoncy
Dimmu Borgir
Dissection
Emperor
Enslaved
Eucharist
Frozen Shadows
Gehenna
Gorgoroth
Gotmoor
Graveland
Grotesque
Havohej
Hades
Hellhammer
Ildjarn
Immortal
Impaled Nazarene
Infernum
Inquisition
Katatonia
Krieg
Kvist
Lord Wind
Manes
Marduk
Mayhem
Merciless
Mortiis
Mütiilation
Mysticum
Necromantia
Niden Div 187
NME
Ophthalamia
Pentagram
Pervertum
Profanatica
Resuscitator
Rotting Christ
Sacramentum
Samael
Sammath
Sarcofago
Septic Flesh
Setherial
Sodom
Sorcier des Glaces
Sort Vokter
Summon
Summoning
Swordmaster
Tha-norr
Thorns
Tartaros
Throne of Ahaz
Ulver
Ungod
Urgrund
Usurper
Varathron
Vilkates
Von
Watain
Xibalba
Yamatu
Zyklon-B


B E S T E V E R
1. Burzum - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
2. Immortal - Pure Holocaust
3. Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse
4. Darkthrone - Transylvanian Hunger
5. Graveland - The Celtic Winter
6. Bathory - Blood, Fire, Death
7. Ildjarn - Det Frysende Nordariket
8. Summoning - Dol Guldur
9. Gorgoroth - Antichrist
10. Beherit - Electric Doom Synthesis
11. Enslaved - Vikinglgr Veldi
12. Havohej - Dethrone the Son of God
13. Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
14. Sacramentum - Far Away From the Sun
15. Mutiilation - Remains of a Dead, Ruined, Cursed Soul


Compilations
Under the Pagan Moon (Cyclonic Productions)
Nordic Metal Compilation (Necropolis)
Firestarter Compilation (Century Media)

http://www.anus.com/metal/about/blackmetal.html

I think he wanted individual opinions, not something you can look up on a website.

"What did black metal mean?"

It depends on the band, the listener and the timeframe.

You've confused "how is it interpreted" with "what does it mean (as an artistic movement)," I'm afraid.

:m: :confused: :m:

neoclassical:
I don't think so.
Black metal is.

Asking for its meaning, or anything's meaning, is asking to evaluate it in comparison to other things. That's why so many questions of meaning are silly and irrelevent - we try to evaluate things in terms of themselves, instead of saying that they are and analyzing their consequences or nature.

"Meaning" is just a special case of "interpretation".

So I say - black metal is, and here are some of its consequences and manifestations.

Dreamwalker:
I also do not think that black metal is dead, there are still lots of BM bands around and they are quite good, for example, Mayhem, Darkthrone, Celtic Frost, Bathory, Emperor...

Only two of those bands are 'around'.

Mayhem is around, but I have listened to their latest cd. It is merely okay.
Darkthrone's newest release is very good.
Celtic Frost, who I never particularly liked, hasn't released anything since ten years ago.
Bathory hasn't become decrepit - although I haven't listened to anything since Destroyer of Worlds.
Emperor went downhill and is now split up, I believe.

Black metal isn't dead, but there aren't as many good bands around as there were in, say, '92. And there are few good bands (that I know of) entering the scene - the good bands are survivors, not newcomers.

Although living where I do, I don't know the newest bands except through the internet.

Mmh, might be true. I have seen Mayhem this summer, throwing pig heads into the crowd, quite funny. But considering that their former singer is in prison and all that...
Same with Darkthrone (except the pig heads and imprisonment)

Celtic Frost is still around, kind of... I know they did not release anything for a while, but they have kicked their singer and I believe they now have a woman as singer.

Read something from Bathory some months ago, but I have forgotten what it was about.

Emperor... don't really know, I have heard something from them at the beginning of this year, but they might have split.


But I agree, (most) of the good bands are survivors. Perhaps some newcomer bands will also survive, which will only happen if they are good of course.


To Cosmic's list, I do not think that Sodom and Dark Tranquility should be there...


Anyway, I will stick to death metal, corpse paint doesn't look good on me. :D (yes, I am just making fun of a cliché)

Asking for its meaning, or anything's meaning, is asking to evaluate it in comparison to other things. That's why so many questions of meaning are silly and irrelevent - we try to evaluate things in terms of themselves, instead of saying that they are and analyzing their consequences or nature.

This could be true, were it something mute: a stone falling in a forest.

However, it is an artistic movement, and such things communicate.

Also, Bathory is over - Quorthon died.

:(

Now that might have been the content of the article I saw... sad to hear that.:(

In memory: http://www.bathory.se/

Dear god. I was out of the country, I didn't hear.
He lived a worthy life.

neoclassical:
I think we are disputing "what meaning is conveyed" with "what meaning does it have?"
An artistic work can definitely have an intended meaning - and most black metal does - but that does vary somewhat according to band. That was my point.

Black metal has shared values, hence shared meanings, therefore my attempt to define it according to common trends and values, or expressions, which is much better than 'values'.

Our values are not the cause but the product of our actions. While black metal has shared values, they can and do change -- although if they changed very radically it would cease to be black metal.

I would find it best to speak of a shared "black metal paradigm" as a result of shared "black metal techniques" :)

You cannot expect any genre of music to stay the same over time. It's a fact of life. It's going to change. Get over it. "Punk" music isn't the same as it used to be. Nor is "Pop", "Classic Rock", or any genre for that matter. There are no rules defining which music belongs in which genre. It depends on each listener to decide. To be honest, I hate labels and when someone says something is not "punk" or "pop", etc. Although, I admit to using them. We all use them.

Sorry for getting off topic. I have minimal knowledge of "black metal". I just like the music. I have only gotten into it recently. Bands like Children of Bodom, Cradle of Filth, and Iron Maiden. If one considers those bands "black metal" or not, I don't know. You decide.

Black metal meant that people could feel good about being able to thrash about freely in all the ideas and concepts of dark powers without fear of condemnation. In fact they could do it to music! I still fear the mosh pit ;)

c20H25N3o:
Black metal meant that people could feel good about being able to thrash about freely in all the ideas and concepts of dark powers without fear of condemnation.

I doubt the type of person who appreciates black metal would really fear anyone's condemnation.

I still fear the mosh pit

I would more fear the legions of berserkers coming to rape your Christian soul.

Black metal meant that people could feel good about being able to thrash about freely in all the ideas and concepts of dark powers without fear of condemnation. In fact they could do it to music! I still fear the mosh pit

Why the hell should someone need Black Metal just to feel good about thrashing about? I think people can do that quite good without music...

And I agree with Xev, I do not think that fans of Black metal fearing condemnation. Also, a moshpit is quite fun, the biggest one I was in consisted of about 1000 people, now that was entertaining.

You cannot expect any genre of music to stay the same over time. It's a fact of life. It's going to change. Get over it. "Punk" music isn't the same as it used to be. Nor is "Pop", "Classic Rock", or any genre for that matter. There are no rules defining which music belongs in which genre. It depends on each listener to decide. To be honest, I hate labels and when someone says something is not "punk" or "pop", etc. Although, I admit to using them. We all use them.

Of course we are all using labels, it makes communication so much easier. Without certain categories there would be nearly no basis of communication. Of course, nothing is consistent in this world.

Sorry for getting off topic. I have minimal knowledge of "black metal". I just like the music. I have only gotten into it recently. Bands like Children of Bodom, Cradle of Filth, and Iron Maiden. If one considers those bands "black metal" or not, I don't know. You decide.

Oh, I can decide? Ok, Children of Bodom is more death metal in its contents but rather black metal in their sound. Cradle of Filth is BM and Iron Maiden is old school metal, but surely not BM.

Just out of curiosity, do you like the music or the message or both?

Children of Bodom is heavy metal IMHO.

trash metal is cooooooooool

i mean its A hole lot of kick ass motherfunking no remorse who care i dont know music