I'm sure we all can agree that our beliefs are our own personal choice. With this being the basic thought let me ask you to think about some thing.

When you chose to go down your path of faith what were you really after? We all hear what it is that people are after on the surface, but what drove you deep down inside?

<HR>

The feeling I get is that most people seek comfort and some thing to sooth the worrys and doubts they have about life and death in general. Which includes a meaning to life. Weather they feel they need a perental type figure (God) or not depends on how much they need to stay connected to the familiar. In the end we reach the same goal, comfort and a senes of exceptence with both ourselves and the world around us. This can only happen if we stay with what it is we feel that we need deep inside. If we step out side of it and try to follow some elese path the same termoil will still be there.

Please only respond if you have thought this through and are willing to contribute meaningfull material



[This message has been edited by 666 (edited May 02, 2000).]

Good question, thanks for asking.

You are asking, "What are you looking for, really, when you chose faith?"

Quick history: Was brought up Catholic, though not strictly. Never really an interest, was probabley agnostic thru my teen and early adult years....actually mad at God for letting my father die when i was 4. Now, my faith grows daily. There was no turning point, it just gradually built up, a compilation of many things.

So I guess the question is, what's the attraction?

In God, I find truth. Truth about the nature of humanity. Our strengths, our weaknesses. Our purpose, which I have come to understand, is to learn to love others, and to grow towards God, the perfect love.

Yes, there is comfort in God. There is love and compassion. But there is also judgement and justice.

So that is what I find with my faith.

Ah, but not blindly do I follow.

I believe reasoning and logic can show the bread crumbs God has left behind. This appeals to my intellectual side, and only serves to strenghten my faith. I will get into that in another thread.



------------------
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke

I think the reason(s) behind the search change as one goes through life. I know this is true for me. As a child I was raised to believe in heaven and hell and that God was going to burn your ass if you didn't get it right. So for me it started out just to cover my ass and for some years following that I had what some call a 'fundamental view' of God.

Then through reading and studying I realized that the 'God' I had been taught had many faces, depending on which religion and group you believed and or followed. So then my search was to find a meaningfully and believable view of God that gave some meaning to life (why we were put here).

To be real honest I don't believe I have or ever will find the meaning. I've concluded that if there is a God then he/she/it ain't going to show their face. I don't believe the Christian have it right nor do I think that any other organized group has it down. And since the Bible has been controled, revised, and no one knows for sure what else by a corrupt organization (Church) I can't abide by it too much by it even through I do think the Gospels give us good examples of how to live.

Science isn't much help. As much as some of us would like to believe science has the answers, it has been full of errors and false assumptions over the years and will continue to be revised and reshaped to fix the current facts of the time.

Now, and probably until I die I just hope t there might be life after death. I really miss many people who have died over the years and would like to see them again, and I would like there to really be a meaning to this mess were in.

But if there is no meaning and we simply die as many believe………………………. Oh well, what the hell ya gonna do………………………………..


And so it goes…………………………………….

Originally posted by Zapper:

I've concluded that if there is a God then he/she/it ain't going to show their face. I don't believe the Christian have it right nor do I think that any other organized group has it down. And since the Bible has been controled, revised, and no one knows for sure what else by a corrupt organization (Church) I can't abide by it too much by it even through I do think the Gospels give us good examples of how to live.

Not to hijack this thread, but we could debate those issues sometime, Zapper :)


------------------
"It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
-Patrick Ashley

666
I'm sure we all can agree that our beliefs are our own personal choice. With this being the basic thought let me ask you to think about some thing.
When you chose to go down your path of faith what were you really after? We all hear what it is that people are after on the surface, but what drove you deep down inside?

Actually not all would agree with your first point (not to pick nits). Anyone who believes in determinism or materialism would believe that we are driven by the same forces that created us, a blind inarticulate force that created us from chemicals some time after a Big Bang wasn't heard.

I do believe I made a choice though. I chose to follow God after I had experienced an event that couldn't be explained by science to my satisfaction. I then researched all the major religions and perused philosophy until I found answers that did satisfy me.

Thank you for a most excellent thread.


[This message has been edited by Adlerian (edited May 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Adlerian (edited May 03, 2000).]

Pashley

Sorry, but I can't see getting into long and many times bitter debates over things we can't prove.
I don't really take a stand on the issue and I'm open to anything new on the subject.
But I do respect anyones right to believe as they wish even if it seems crazy or nuts to me. My only rule is 'don't push your beliefs on me when I tell you I am unable to accept your viewpoint.
For whatever reasons, good or bad, I do believe in 'God'. But I take issue on this one, or that one being the "true way".
Since there are many great scolars who have
studied the great religions of the world most of their lieves and who can't reach an agreement I don't think my limited knowledge is great enouft to tell someone I am right and they are wrong.
My main hope is that sometime (and I don't think it will happen) that we can conclude that it's ok to believe as you want. Mind you this doesn't mean their are no rules for thoese who have no belief, but if they choose not to believe, so be it.
Anyway good luck and I'm sure you'll find someone here who will debate with you on this issue. But not me.................

And so it goes..................

:) :) :) :) :) :)

Sex. No that can't be right or could it?
Sects. No that must be religious stuff.
Zits. No, yuck.
Ah I know -
Six bottles of beer.

666 - sorry - serious stuff later.

okay, this post is a little harsh and direct, but i feel i have the right to post my opinion.

when you watch a movie, you will notice that most of the time, there is a set good guy and a set bad guy. the good guy has his faults, but we love him. the bad guy is all bad, and we hate him. we root for the good guy to beat the bad guy. he does, and we are happy.

i would say that better than 90% of religious people simply believe what they want, and pretend that their beliefs are the true path of god. while this may seem like a bold statement, for the most part, this is not at all difficult, because of course most all of us will think things like "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife." even hardcore athiests will for the most part fall in line with christian values because as humans, this is generally how we feel. i would go further to site examples such as jerry fallwell, who protests gays and has 6-yr-olds holding signs saying "god hates fags." in the vastness of the bible, he can easily find sufficient passages to support his personal message of hate after he choses to ignore others which refute it.

most christian don't think they fall into this, but i would simply site leviticus 17-19, filled with things nearly all christians ignore, such as not wearing clothing woven from two different materials or not cutting the hair at the sides of your head. these things seem absurd, but they are no less the word of god than any of the rest of the bible. we simply chose to ignore it, as we personally don't think that it is immoral.

i think this is why most people believe in god. in life, we all want to think we are the good guy, and that while we have our faults, we do good. christians like to think that there is an overriding scorekeeper tracking the "good" and the "bad," and that they will "win" something for doing good.

and of course, they like to pretend they are winning, no matter what the score.

samus

Samus,
Just curious..... what about the remaining
10%?

666,

Greetings! How is your monkey? ;)

I have to say that personally, I did not "decide" which path to follow. I feel more like that path found me, or maybe one day I just woke up and realized I was already on a path and it was real.

Bit o' history for the newer 'faces'; I was raised by parents that did not make me attend church. I was encouraged to find my own belief system in life, and for the most part I considered myself to be an atheist. In my teen years, I decided I was agnostic - I couldn't say one way or the other if there was a God at all, and if there is one I couldn't say which one it was. I remained that way until just last year.

I started to get a feeling that there was something more, some kind of energy that I couldn't put a label on. It was slippery, kind of like an image seen out of the corner of your eye. I began to research it a bit, and experiment with it. I discovered what it was. It was God.

My personal belief (one that gives most folk following organized religions a real bad taste in their mouth) is that ALL of the Gods and Goddesses are "real", they are all part of the ONE force that is existant in this universe. This is the force that makes life tend to happen in the right circumstances. This force is what makes chaos and quantum mechanics work. This force is the basic building block that the whole 'enchilada' is made out of. Us puny humans can't grasp it in it's entirety, so we seperate it's 'symptoms' out and label them things like "light" and "gravity" and "god".

I've been pondering this these recent months, and I am beginning to think this energy has no independant thought, not in the sense we use that word. I don't think this force has emotions, or needs, or wants. It simply IS. The thought that comes to play is generated by us and all the other thinking creatures everywhere. We are all part of it, some of that energy resides in us and is what gives us life. In a sense, our thoughts are what makes God, or at least what makes God perceptible to us.

This, to me, indicates that any God that is believed in is real. The belief and worship that God is given by it's followers is what forms it, distinguishes that bit of energy from the rest, and gives it it's characteristics. God is anything and everything you want it to be - in a very literal sense; if you imagine it, it IS.

I believe some Gods and Goddesses are more powerful than others, they have more "thought" to feed on and flourish with. Like a well-worn groove or something, there is solidity from all the centuries of energy being poured into their shape. Personally, I favor the Pagan Gods and Goddesses, in their many guises and strengths. I may call on Ptah for assistance fixing something one day, invite Pan to spice up a party the next, and rely on Gaea to heal me the day after that. It doesn't matter that they are all from different cultures and aren't traditionally considered in the same pantheon. Each one is real, as real as I believe they are, and each one will help me if I ask in the proper way. Just like a light bulb will always light if you screw it in properly (and it's not blown out).

Have a nice day everyone, Blessed Be.

Zapper: I think Pashley's point was that the existence of God CAN be proved.

Cris: LOL :)

samus: Flash has a good point. What abou the other 10%?

Flash: Good point! ;)

Mooncat: Very intriguing.

What is the most intriguing is this:

I started to get a feeling that there was something more, some kind of energy that I couldn't put a label on. It was slippery, kind of like an image seen out of the corner of your eye. I began to research it a bit, and experiment with it. I discovered what it was. It was God.

A feeling? Let me get this right. You base your worldview as concerns deity from a feeling you "experimented with"? Wow. Tell me more...

Seriously,

Adlerian

Adlerian
" Zapper: I think Pashley's point was that the existence of God CAN be proved. "

Yes, I'm sure that's what he was saying. But I guess I failed to fully explain my stand.

To date I have come across no new concepts that I haven't herd about in the past. Mind you this doesn't mean I'm correct in saying this or that isn't proff. It only says it fails to prove it to me.

For the most part people talk about feelings and things that have happened in their lives that make them believe. Well I've had these feeling and some events in my life that make me believe there is a God. But THIS ALONE IS NOT PROOF.

Some people use Phylosophy to try and prove their point. Again this is not proof.

Current Science does give some people hope that God exists and others that he doesn't exist, and in fact Quantom Physics spooks me to the point that if what I've read is true then I think 'maybe there is a God, or force of some kind'. But then Science can't prove it one way or the other.

I believe God is beyond our Sciences and other deciplines. I don't believe we have or ever will be able to describe God.

So why should I spend a lot of time listening to the same stuff and agruing about something that can't be proven at this point.
Religious Scholars know a hell of a lot more than I do and don't seem to agree, so I think my best bet is to wait for someone to bring in some data or proof.

Posting something you think is new or of value to prove your point is fine, but I just don't care to debate the point given my stand on the subject. :) :) :) :) :)

666

Sorry I got us stuck in this area. I know you didn't want this kind of stuff on this Post.

So I promise to keep quiet now and respond in other Posts when it merits it.

Originally posted by Zapper:
Adlerian
" Zapper: I think Pashley's point was that the existence of God CAN be proved. "

Guys, no, don't get me wrong, please! I can't prove God exists, don't think He is 'provable'.! However, I do believe that strong arguments can be given that He does exist. That's all I'm trying to do!

For the most part people talk about feelings and things that have happened in their lives that make them believe. Well I've had these feeling and some events in my life that make me believe there is a God. But THIS ALONE IS NOT PROOF.

It wasn't for me either. Heck, I was pretty much agnostic, maybe even atheist at some points. But, then I got to say, "Well, maybe..." and got into some groups like this, read the arguments, and my mind and heart led me to the pro-God side. Then, I got into cosmological and ontological arguments, and the like, and they made logical sense to me. Are all these fancy arguments, proof? No. See my above comment. But man, very compelling

I believe God is beyond our Sciences and other deciplines. I don't believe we have or ever will be able to describe God.

I'll agree we can't prove him, but I think he's left enough 'bread crumbs' to have some clues as to His nature.




------------------
"It was there, at the edge of the black abyss, that I found myself."
-Patrick Ashley

here's another extreme example that i remembered. according to mormon beliefs, the head of their church, the president, can actually talk to god. this is an elected position, so the president gains this ability once sworn in. in the early 80s, the mormon church had a racist president, and low and behold, god told him that black people couldn't be in the mormon church. the mormon church was just about to be sued out of existence by the NAACP and the ACLU when suddenly god changed his mind and it was okay for black people to be mormons.

like i said, this is an extreme example, but i think you can see how this person believed that his personal opinion was the true path of god, even going so far as to say that god told him so.

the other LESS than 10% can truly set aside their own personal beliefs and feelings and actually accept the bible as the complete truth, even the parts that contradict what they think. this is not to say that they actually know the entire bible to follow it 100%, more that it is a factor of following what they are taught about it.

actually, i'm thinking that number is closer to 1%.

i also believe that a large portion of people who claim to be christian and go to church are actually agnostic. that is to say, they truly are not sure there is a god, but they will profess that they are because so do the people close to them, as do millions of people. and they wouldn't want there to end up being a god after they didn't go the church. what a disaster.

in fact, in certain social situations, i find it is simply easier to go along with it when highly religious people assume that i am also christian. not that i think i at all have anything to hide, but my telling them would only result in one of two things. they would judge me without understanding how i feel, or it would result in a long and lengthy discussion which would lead nowhere, as they would ignore me and have nothing original to say themselves. most likely both.

samus

Zapper: I respect the fact that you don't wish to discuss the subject. It is not my intent to shove anything down sanyone's throat. However, when you say that philosophy cannot prove something, you are incorrect. Many things have been and will be proven be philosophical method. Philosophy includes logic and logic is what we use whenever we prove anything. I respect your wishes though and will not address you on this again.

Yours,


Adlerian

samus: I get your point. I have to agree with you on everything you said. In fact, most Christians I know hate God. They are filled with the ego. I do not believe that all Christians are like that though and I would hate to try and put a number on those who truly follow the name they are called by. Sorry to hear about your unfortunate run-ins with so-called believers.

Yours, Adlerian

Pashley, sorry about the misunderstanding. I thought you thought the existence of God could be proved. I agree with you that He can't be but there are arguments that point to a high probability that He does exist. Kinda like the evidence we have for black holes and things like that.

Yours,

Adlerian

Everyone,

Sorry it took so long to respond.
I found eveyone's replys verry interesting!

My whole point in this was to just try and understand everyone's view points a little better. A lot of times people ignore the basic thoughts and emotions going on inside of them. These basic foundations can lead a person to not accept any other view point, even in the face of extream contridiction.

A few have touched on the "if it works for you, cool." stand point. I tend to go this route, but personaly chose to accept the uncertainty. I find it much more freeing and empowering to accept this then to try and contridict it. What lead me to this point? Well just like about everyone else it wasn't one event. Over the years I accualy spent considerable amount of time trying to find one beleif that would justify not only my life, but what has happened in mt life, both the bad and the good. I was constantly lead back to my self. I was responsible for what I had done and for the things that happened to me, well I was responsible with what I would do with it. The beleif in any religon did not help with these matters. They just pushed the blame in other directions.

Quite a few replys focused on the christain faith. Well heres my thought on it. I have never seen or heard of an accual "Christain". None follow the teachings to the "T". I can't blame them, their human and are not perfect. Wich is what the Christain faith calls for in the end. On top of the human factor we can never know excatly what the teachings wanted us to do. They can only be interpreted due to all the double meanings and multiple translations from language to langauge.

Mooncat,

I hope you don't feel like I am picking on you, but I find what you said interesting.

If the force does not think and simply just is, How could have it created us. It would have needed to think. The picture you painted, and I might have read into it worng, is that the force is depenant upon us for it to be real and conscious. While at the same time we would be dependant upon the force to provide us with life. Both would have had to come into being at the same time.



[This message has been edited by 666 (edited May 07, 2000).]

Greetings!

I have been busy lately, and just got back to the board. I'm not ignoring everyone!

Adlerian,

:) What do you wish to know? I can list for you the books I've read, the experiments I've done, the meandering paths I've taken...but that would be a book, and if I'm writing a book, I'd rather publish it and get paid for such work! :) I would be more than happy to discuss this with you though, I think I just need a better place to start.

666,

Awh, I know you're not picking on me!! I welcome questions, they make me think! I like thinking. :)

Where did I say this force 'created' us? :) Okay, granted, I did say this is the 'force that makes life tend to happen', but perhaps I wasn't very clear. I believe this force is a part of us, and coexists with us, but is not a 'creator' in that sense. I believe that what created us (us including "god") is the combination of factors that happen to exist in this universe, on this particular planet, under this particular sun. I couldn't point to a specific group of factors, I'm no scientist, and even science is still grasping for answers. The Big Bang or whatever is the real creator, in my opinion. And I'm not convinced this was the first or only Big bang either, I'm of the mind it just happens to be the one we're in, there may well be many to follow and there may well have been many in the past. (Does that make me a science-agnostic? :D )

My philosophy is quite different from that of most organized religions, and even a lot of fellow Pagans don't share my views & beliefs. That's okay with me, though, so long as they don't disrespect my views just because they don't share them. (something I try very hard to do myself, with varying degrees of success) :) A lot of people see God/Goddess as a separate entity from themselves, and perhaps even separate from nature around them. I see it all as bits and pieces of the same thing. Any separation I percieve is artificial, like a math problem broken down into smaller pieces to make it easier to compute, or a sandwich bitten and chewed into small bits for easy digestion. You COULD cram an entire sandwich down your throat, but you might choke to death on it, right? Trying to wrap my brain around the entire universe MAY be possible, but it's much easier if I say, okay, this is gravity, this is light, this is God, this is Goddess, this is human, this is animal...etc, and try to understand each piece as individuals. Once I "understand" a piece, I lay it into the puzzle and begin on the next. Sometimes I come accross a piece that doesn't fit, and realize I've placed some pieces in the wrong spots. I pull them apart, and try to begin fresh again. I'm not ashamed of placing those pieces in the wrong places, nor am I so attached to their location that I will try to pound other pieces in around them when they obviosly don't fit - what point is there in that? I may never finish this puzzle, or I may finish it over the course of this life, or perhaps reincarnation DOES exist and I will require several lifetimes to put it all together. Or maybe it's a neverending puzzle? Maybe...but it's sure a lot of "fun" working on it in the meantime! Life is like that, it's a journey without an end. It's not the destination that matters, it's the journey itself that is the goal. At least that's my life philosopy, in 20 words or less. :)

As far as proof goes, I am beginning to think that there is no global proof, partially due to the fact that since we are all individuals, we will all percieve Diety in a different way. My shoes fit me just fine, I say to you that they fit perfectly. You put on my shoes, and they're too small. So, I can't PROVE to you that the shoes fit, I just can say "well, they fit ME". Poor analogy, but I think you can see what I'm trying to say. :) I have seen & experienced things that to ME are proof, but to you...maybe not.

I think it's a personal thing, like a fingerprint. Even two people that believe the same thing probably have taken different proofs that brought them to that belief, right? One Christian might believe because they have had a conversation with God, another maybe because he prayed for his mother to be cured and she was.

Tiassa,

Just wanted to take the opportunity to say, Hello! :)

MC--

Merry meet, kind soul. 'Tis good to hear your footsteps 'round the circle again.

b/b
Tiassa :cool:

------------------
We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)

Knowledge.

Thats what we are looking for. I believe Education is as old as religion itself, and we have shown that by establishing what we call science, and by establishing churces of various religions around the world. In one way or another, the church's/religions/science priority is to educate people regardless what is being taught.

We look at the sky many of us, puzzled by the magnificent creation it is. We want to know, allthough we might realize that we either are too incompetent to grasp it, or that we might never find out.

We could also look at a computer, or a rock and just be puzzled by what it does/is. We want to know how the computer operates, what it does etc. The rock. We want to know it's "story" and why the "rock" might be very important in terms of our existance. (minerals etc, and how it can be used to create something)


We have the kid, being puzzled by just about everything, asking questions all the time ( regardless of religious faith)

We practically know nothing as a specie, but again we do since we have nothing to compare ourselves with other than what is known to us as a community (fitting word i guess)

Then, this is founded in the "evolution" part of things where to succeed one needs to learn, and teach to survive.

:)




------------------
.Religion is for those who fear hell, Spirituality is for those who have been there.

H-kon,

Cool!!! My question should have been phrased better. What are we looking for in religon? We strive to learn in life due to all the reasons you stated, but I belive that religon steams from emotion. The fear of what will happen after death. Some can't handle it. Others can accept the fact that we do not know.

Hi 666 :)

Same thing really. reassurance, or knowledge again. Nothing is certain in life, and Religion tries to cope with it. Religion tries to teach us what science shows us. In some ways, Religion is a lot farther ahead than Science is simply because science has to start from the bottom and work it's way to the top, explaining everything in between.

Religion however takes the "easy" way by going everywhere at the same time, thereby providing the reassurance needed until Science can explain it based on facts :)


:)

------------------
.Religion is for those who fear hell, Spirituality is for those who have been there.

[This message has been edited by H-kon (edited May 26, 2000).]

the purpose of religion:

to make us feel better about ourselves and the way we are. to allow us to think that the way we act is somehow better than those who act differently. we are "good," they are not.

religion is not so much about us trying to find the truth, but more about what we WANT to think the truth is. while humans are unique in the world in that they can be aware of the world around them in ways that other animals can't, they are still dominated by desires. this even stretches to cause us to think things which are easiest to think.

for instance, take sex for example. men are evolutionally designed to try to mate with as many partners as possible, and thus it is generally excepted that men will try to sleep with as many women as they can. for men, the more the better. but for women, since they could only have one child at a time, they were evolutionally designed to only mate with a select one partner. thus, women have inhibitions against multiple partners. they know that they would very much enjoy having sex often, but their inhibitions prevent them. so to justify themselves, they label it as "good" and "moral," and they pass judgement on women who overcome those inhibitions by labeling them as sluts.

people generally think what they want, but they also want to think that there is more weight behind what they think than just their personal opinion. they like to envision an all-powerful being that backs up what they say. note also the qualities that our self-centered species gives it, such as creating man in his own image, and giving the world to man.

in the case of death, we want to think that it isn't the end of our existence, so we make up another world that can't be seen where we go after death, where we have infinite bliss for eternity.

for many people, this is something they like to cling to out of fear of nothingness. i don't know how much they really believe it, but you will note that they still very much fear death. refer to one of my posts earlier in this string where i said that many christians really aren't sure, but are afraid to put up any other outward appearance.

for others, this sounds like something that you would tell a small child to make them feel better about death.

while i have to admit, i cannot be certain that there is no god, obviously i feel that it is a creation of man rather than man's creation.

samus

[This message has been edited by samus (edited May 29, 2000).]

What are we after? SURVIVAL. Everything - religion included - is merely a means to this end.

patriotSTORM -

Speak for yourself. Survival is easy. We are not unthinking animals, and because of this, we have higher goals.

Also, I'm curious as to how your theory would account for kamikaze pilots, other soldiers, and people who risk their lives for something they believe in.

FyreStar

H-kon,

Yeah you got a point. I read my post a secound time and well it stand up.

patriotSTORM,

I have to agree with FyreStar. I played the the survival game and it just doesn't work in the long run. It's good for a short time frame.

Samus,

I belive that that is one portion of it. One of the interesting things about religon is that the driving powers behind the faith is multi-faceted. Such as upbringing. The things we learn in the early stages in life can efect us for a long time. If we learned to accept the fact that we do not know what we face after die, could it lesson the strong hold of religon?

What I'm looking for, in both religion and life, is another excuse to go down to Trial's Pub and knock back a couple of Newcastles some weekend. Anybody up for it?

LETS GO!!!!!!!!!

OK, first things first: I view all these posts with an opened mind, and aren't here to troll, so don't flame me as such!

Survival - it is our one true aim. Religion has provided us with a sense of purpose and guidelines that increase our personal, and our communal chances of survival - ie: do not kill people.

FryeStar - I can respond to that simply: the kamikaze pilots died for the survival of the mass, to preserve the empire.

666 - how doesn't my argument stand up?

PatriotSTORM,

I wont treat you like a troll.

I do't belive that it is all about survival, because it has been my experiance when you just do what is need for survival life really sucks. On top of that why would we have emotions? It can be argued rather well that emotion is not need for survival. Try makeing just enough money to get buy and you will see that the quality of life dips extreamly low. One can argue that money and our monetary system is artificaly created, but it is used for survival and much more. Even on top of that look at the people who dedicated thier lives to makeing craps loads money. They don't have to worry about survival but in most cases thier quality of life is worse off then a poor person's. Survival is first and formost but not the whole picture.

For the first portion of my life I could do little more then do what was needed for me to survive. Emotionaly it left me asking why I wanted to survive. As I came out from underneth the events and people who were holding me down I was able to do more then survive. Thats when life became worth keeping. The quality can directly relate to the value of life. Insects survive, I live life.

Did you say your question still stands?


I didn't make that clear enough i think

Your example was life after death:

See, science can't yet explain that, allthough we have gotten a few answers dealing with OBE's and NDE's it is still going to take time until they can explain what happens.

Religion which is used to trying to tackle every question at once, gives reassurance in that they might have the possible answer to ones questions until Science can explain them 100%

So Religion through knowledge answers the question, but gives reassurance at the same time. (emotions)



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.Religion is for those who fear hell, Spirituality is for those who have been there.

H-Kon,

OOPPSSS!!!

I ment to say that my post didn't stand up. My went faster then my hands. :)

After reading it a secound time your post still made more sense then mine.