Seriously, what constitutes chronic depression?

Anyone know?

Chronic depression shows up usually as bursts. Like there will be a period where you are experiencing heavy systems.....a break.....and back to the symptons. I think a lot of people jump the gun on chronic depression though.

Symptoms include;
persistent sadness (obviously)
appetite changes drastically/suddenly
physical discomfort
lethargy (which basically means extreme slugishness and inability to perform)
inability to keep concentration
lose of interest in most things
suicidal tendencies or constant thought of death (NOT fear of death)
become very irratible


If you think you have chronic depression, you likely don't. I find something like 50% of teenagers actually think they have it, when most are just experiencing normal feelings. If you think you have chronic depression, talk to your parents. Not necessarily about having c.d. (I know, it's impossible to actually tell them you think this), but say that you think you would benefit from a therapist. Talk to him/her about it. Let them tell you things. If it's chronic depression, prepare for a journey. My bet? It's not. Good luck.

Lithium defficiency.

http://www.omsd.k12.ca.us/oaks/students/min/disease.html

Depression (http://www.psychologyinfo.com/depression/)

Some psychology resouces (http://www.med.monash.edu.au/psychmed/resources/)

Oh, insomnia and hypersomnia are also symptons, sorry I left them out.

"Other forms of mental illness can be more serious. You get depressed when something is wrong. Clinical depression means you feel bad all the time.

Severe depression is triggered with a tragedy such as a family member who just died. Many researchers belief depression is caused by an imbalance of neurotransmitters. If it is caused by a deficiency of dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine, it is just heredity."
- From Cris' site

There are different types of depression. Lithium defficiency is not the answer to them all.

Guys, chronic depression is definetly a neurotransmitter imbalance....and it differs from Clinical or Suicidal Depression in the sense that it well........hell, it's CHRONIC....it doesn't want to go away.....for years it persists and it may not be as prominent for a few months and then come back in full force....but it persists.......like a chronic cough....goes on for years......

In my opinion you treat it with medication which will allow the person to benefit from attending what I like to call "training sessions"---not your traditional Freud Psychotherapy....more like a way to retrain your negative and cycling thoughts, actions and reactions into something more positive and productive. This may may the person less susceptible to bouts with depression, help them come off medication....and hopefully make them aware that they should seek drug therapy when they are going into "remission" despite their efforts at fighting it.

Anyway, that's what I think.

Originally posted by Ana
Guys, chronic depression is definetly a neurotransmitter imbalance....and it differs from Clinical or Suicidal Depression in the sense that it well........hell, it's CHRONIC....it doesn't want to go away.....for years it persists and it may not be as prominent for a few months and then come back in full force....but it persists.......like a chronic cough....goes on for years......

In my opinion you treat it with medication which will allow the person to benefit from attending what I like to call "training sessions"---not your traditional Freud Psychotherapy....more like a way to retrain your negative and cycling thoughts, actions and reactions into something more positive and productive. This may may the person less susceptible to bouts with depression, help them come off medication....and hopefully make them aware that they should seek drug therapy when they are going into "remission" despite their efforts at fighting it.

Anyway, that's what I think.

Cognitive therapy is supposed to be better treatment for depression. The main reason for this it that with drug therapies there is a high chance of relapse. I can post numbers if you like...

Ideally it's best to have both cognitive and drug therapies, but that's not always an option.

-Xenu

I agree with the neurotransmitter imbalance theory too, but these neurtransmitters are caused by "bad" thoughts which in turn are caused by neurotransmitters. Mind comes from body, and body comes from mind. It's a cycle.

I dont think there is anything u can do. If they are depressed then they wont listen to anyone anyway. i think u just have to leave them to get out of it themselves. Im not saying abandon them. i just dont think there is anything u can do for them anyway.

Er, is chronic depression like manic depression, a.k.a. bipolar syndrome?

But Pete, if depression is an imbalance in chemicals and whatnot, then we can simply inject the proper chemicals and they'll get better, won't they?

Chronic means recuring %BlueSoulRobot%, as i think someone said. so u go from being depressed to being ok and then back again. This keeps happening.It is the same thing as manic depression (if i remember correctly), hence bipolar i.e. going between the extremes (different poles) :) ......if depression is an imbalance in chemicals.... causes cant be attributed. it could be the negative thoughts that cause the release of different levels of chemicals or it could be the chemicals causing the negative thoughts. No-one knows. Personally i think it is the negative thoughts that start the whole thing.

ther exists a direct relationship between physical and emotive states.

the neural chemical communications of one with depressed emotions will appear and behave differently from
the neural chemical communications of one with elated emotions.

your emotions cause an actual physical change in the brain.
most call them "imbalances," but they r actually balances between the 2.
[im sure whoever the powers that be who coined the term "imbalance" had their reasons 4 calling it that.
(words can b very powerful when it comes 2 social manipulation)]


these tiny pysical electrochemical transmissions in our heads r nothing but physical symbols of our emotions.
its a map.

of course your genetic make up plays a role
but that goes for any function of your body.

(for no money down, your own physical body has the ability 2 fire off better versions of the drugs that we pay so much money to the farm for.)

thought patterns, physical movement and breathing, diet, environment (including electromagnetic noise), and social interactions come together 2 create emotion.

chronic depression is a result of:
what u think about
the way u movie and breath
what u consume
your surrounding environment
and your physical emotional relationships with others.

by manipulating these, you can change your neurochemical transmissions to create your emotions


emotions are also created by triggered associations.
that means
if you r experiencing strong emotions, whatever is around u at that moment will b associated 2 thos emotions.
for example
you are experiencing strong feelings of sadness. while u r experiencing these feelings, u hear a dog barking in the background.
that deep feeling of sadness and the dog become associated in ur brain.
later, u might be feeling fine.
u r walking, and u hear a dog barking.
this will trigger ur brain 2 approach those sad feelings u had before.
all of a sudden, u r feeling sad, and dont kno y.


genetic abnormalities play a large role in more severe cases of psychosis, and other more serious mental disorders.
in these cases, our limited knowledge in the feild of human understanding prevents us from really tapping into a persons inherent rejuvinativity.
for now, medication along with high quality care that focuses on those 5 attributes mentioned abov would help the most.


chronic depression is a set pattern that has been in place for so long.
everytime u deviate, u will automatically revert back 2 the same set pattern.
it must b regularly conditioned in order 2 change permenently.
this can be compared 2 being out of shape or overweight.

just as
u must condition ur muscles through certain physical excersises 4 the purpose of acheiving a new physical shape,
u must also condition ur brain through certain mental excersises 4
the purpose of acheiving a new set pattern.

Talking out your problems works for SOME of the time

meditation is really helpful to

but i doubt i will ever come off the antidepressants

in fact i think they will probably incress the dose

Tyler,

What is hypersomnia?

i would gess from the word either being tired all the time or sleeping to much

Thanks Asy,
I looked it up and cant find it. I have something, but Ive developed bags under my eyes and I can never sleep. I just lay there all night, thoughts flying everywhere. Its really strange cuz Ive never had this problem.

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
I can never sleep.
sounds like insomnia
quite facinating
i wish i had the ability to never sleep

i wish i had the ability to never sleep

No you dont

It's not "sleeping too much" exactly. It's feeling like sleeping at all hours of the day.

As for what you're going through star, it's probably related to stress.

If it continues on you'll end up tricking yourself into thinking you get use to it, but you never really do. I've heard some people call themselves insomnics when they can only get to sleep at like 3 in the morning but can sleep in until 11 or 12. This is not insomnia. If you can sleep that bloody long you just have a sleeping disorder or poor sleeping habits (more likely).

The worst I suffered of not being able to sleep was when (without drugs) I would get to sleep at around 4:30 on a weekday, wake up at 6:30 (5:30 hockey mornings) and go to school. On weekends without drugs I would fall asleep sometime around 4:30-5:00 and be up, not by alarm or for any reason, by 7:30-8:00.

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
No you dont
hey is it that bad?

during the day, i can work, during the night, i can write and study, and excersise, and do all types of fun stuff.


whats it like?
do u really never sleep at all?
or r u jus awake mos of the time but sleep a little?

impotence??
or perhaps depression is a result of impotence

Picture spending a good 5 hours in your bed every single night for a few months on end staring at the ceiling thinking about every single aspect of your life. And as you run out of thoughts that interest you you realize there's still a good 3 hours left of doing this and you think the same thoughts every night. Basically, you have to cope with reality twice. During the day you have to cope with everything like normal, then during night you have to relive the coping all over.

When it's day time for me I would walk through in a complete daze. It takes a few callings of my name to get my attention. And the memory is all fucked up. Know when you walk in a room and forget what you went in their for? That happens a good 3 or 4 times a day minimum. You can't really process thoughts, but you can't sleep even if you try.

Waking up, I think, was the worst part. Every single fucking night it would be shutting your eyes and feel like one minute before you woke up and realized you had to put in the effort necessary to live another day.

Manic depressives, or bi-polar sufferers have EXTREMES of highs and lows.. nothing in between.. and are usually very creative people in the manic (high) phase. The drug lithium is used to stabilise the moods.

It is not the same as chronic depression..

hope this helps

I used to have that. I'd be suicidal in the morning, and at night it'd feel like I was on MDMA! Thankfully, after 7 years of that, I've "stabalized"

trying to decide if its a real issue or a created problem. throw in all the comments about side affects after taking the little blue happy pills and now I'm thinking get on with life and quit sulking. its only been 3 weeks and the saddnes comes and goes but with major bursts of tears. Now I've also started anxiety attacks about a day or two before the therapy visit. Never liked drugs and am struggling with the idea that i'm on them. Of course plenty of "friends" suggested at times: maybe you should take something for your moodiness. recently and the attention grabber was the severe week of crying and thoughts of suicide that sent me to the therapist. Ugh! is anyone else out there who knows this? I've never thought I had my act together but I could put on a pretty good show. But lately before the meds I felt completely sad. Some good days of late and there is definite talk of major changes in thinking so maybe it is mind over matter. are the pills necesary or even helpful? Scarry. any ideas?

Why not try the medication for a few months, just to get you on the right track, and then slowly stop taking the medication, but try to keep the new state of mind!

what does therapy for depression do? lets pretend that drugs are out of the question, the person in question has serious trust issues with people that they don't know (in otherwords just "talking about it" isn't going to help), the problem is real and persistant, and they are becoming less and less able to deal with the real world. what can a therapist do for the situation?

what can a therapist do... (?) A therapist can be nothing more than a high priced fake friend ...some are even honest enough to admit this . The SSRI's have major risks assocciated with them , actual benefits are derived not from these pills , but from the therapist - patient relationship . This shouldn't be a suprise to people with healthy friendships and an active family life .

"Approximately 80% of the response to medication was duplicated in placebo control groups..."

http://journals.apa.org/prevention/volume5/pre0050023a.html


edit : clarification

so basically, what do you do if you have good friends, don't want drugs, and are still depressed?
i guess you're just screwed then.

freefall , I used words such as some are and can be . Just be carefull , there are alot of quacks out there . Education is the best tool at your disposal .

Thanks. for responding. Didn't give me any clearer picture then the one i already had . But ultimatly my life my choice. Right on with the trust issue and family friend thing. taking on responsibility for ones own choices and actions can be tough especially when one chooses to do them alone. But accepting that is a move in the right direction. Demo- wrote on another thread about orbiting. hopefully, the fake friend ( i wasn't offended, just liked the phrase) will get me going in the right direction. A lot of issues, so a lot of time needed but it helps to know i'm not alone even when I try to be. :eek:

woot! I topic I can really talk about from expirience!

I was born with two learning diabilities and "Inherited Clinical Chronic Depression" (other members of my family have been diagnosed, and three cousins, an uncle, a great aunt, my grandmother, and my sister had all commited or attempted suicide at some point). This was not diagnosed when I was born, of course, but considering I had attempted suicide 3 times by the age of 6, most people knew that something was wrong. luckily for me, being six made it had to obtain firearms, and jumping out a window is hard when the window is too heavy to open.

Chronic (persistant) depression (feelings od depression and sadness). Basically, I would wake up to my Mom singing "it's a bueatiful morning", I'd feel sick, dizzy and nauseuas, and want to punch her for being so stupid and annoying. It wasn't a wonderful day! The sun was up- I might get a sun burn. It wasn't going to rain, so we would have to go outside for gym which meant team sports. that meant more chances to screw up, and more fodder for being beaten up by bullies after school. between gym screw-ups and afterschool would be class after class of being yelled at by teachers and bored out of my mind. (This is where you start moving out of 'common adolecent frustration' and into 'depression'). Then because the teachers are yelling at you for not doing your homework....oh, sh*t! I forgot to do my math homework last night, I need to get my homework done! oh, f*ck, oh, f*ck....crap, where the hell is my backpack- I have 15 minutes until the bus is here- I need to get dressed (dress quickly), run downstairs. "mom have you seen my bag? I forgot to do my Math, I need..." "YOU DIDN"T DO YOUR MATH!!!! WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU....WHAT ARE YOU WEARING? TODAY IS PICTURE DAY, GO GET CHANGED! YOU HAVE 3 MINUTES, HURRY UP!" f*ck I forgot my homework, I'm going to get detention and have to stay after class, then My english teature will yell at me- I'm going to and up having to stay late after every class, and then I'm goign to miss my bus coming home after a day of getting yelled at and beat up. I don't have my lunch money from mom, and she's already yelling, Where are my shoes? f*ckf*ckf*ck, with the hell do they want from me??!!? stupid pictures, What was I doing?? crap!! why am I back in my room? What was I supposed to do? I was looking for my back pack, then went downstairs, Mom yelled at me instead of helping me find my backpack...I wonder if I even remembered to bring my Math book home with me? sh*t I don't think I did! I can't even do my Math homework on the bus, then? there's no way I can get it done. oh, shit (start crying here) "YOU'RE OUT OF TIME!! THE BUS IS HERE! ARE YOU CHANGED?! LET'S GO!" f*ck! I was getting changed! That's what I was supposed to do! Where are my church clothes? I'll wear them. where the hell are they? they're not in my drawer!! oh, sh*t I'm gonna get it "LET'S GO!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING UP THERE, THE BUS IS ABOUT TO LEAVE!" finnaly right about here, I start losing it "I don't f'inf know, ok??!! where the hell are my church clothes??!!""YOU'RE STILL NOT CHANGED??!! DAMNIT!" she comes up stairs "DON'T YOU CURSE IN MY HOUSE! YOU'RE GROUNDED FOR THE NEXT 5 DAYS YOUNG MAN!" Grounded, What The Hell did I do??! I was trying to get ready like she asked....wait, I can't be grounded this week, I've got a gymnastics meat on saturday. f*ck, what the hell am I supposted to do now!! f*ck. I have to go this weekend, it's against Hanover, they alway beat me, this may be the last chance I have to beat that one big kid they have on their team! no, I can't wiss it? sh*tsh*t
Mom goes into my closet and thows some clothes at me, the looks out the window. "YOU'VE MISSED THE BUS *AGAIN*! I"LL DRIVE YOU, BUT YOUHAVE TO BE READY IN 4 MINTUES, OR ELSE YOU'RE WALKING." "have you seen my backpack?" "YOU STILL HAVEN'T FOUND YOUR BACKPACK? WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING UP HERE THIS WHOLE TIME??? I CAN'T DO EVERYTHING FOR YOU.""I coun't find it" "FINE, YOU JUST GET DRESSED." sits and thinks about how sh*tty this day is so far, and it's only 6:25 AM, I feel sick to my stomach, still have a headache from waking up, I'm not dressed, I have 4 minutes, now 3.5 minutes, really to get dressed, get my backpack and get in the car. No breakfast, and the listen to my mom yelling the whole way to school. and I'll be late to get there, of course, so I'll be sent to the principal's office, which my mom will be told about, so I'll be grounded even longer than 5 days. I'm going to have to do team sports today, and every period will be total boring sh*t, and I'll get yelled at for falling asleep, cause I'm tired from having to get up this early, and I'm going to get beat up after school, I can feel it, I just know it
Mom walk in w/ back pack- "IT WAS UNDER THE DINNING ROOM TABLE...WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING JUST SITTING THERE!! WE HAVE TO MOVE, COME ON!!" mom the forcfully dresses me while I give up on life, and just go limp, which, of course makes her even more angry.

The high point of my week is while at the gymnastics meet (which my mom of course allowed me to go to), I succeed in getting a 9.7 on the floor exersize. Not bad, I've done better, I didn't keep my legs straight in that one front handspring. Damnit, what was I thinking??!!! I know better than that! I practiserd it all week! sh*t, I suck, what the hell is wrong with me? Oh, crap! That big kid from central PA just got a 9.8, so the best I can do is 2nd, I wonder if my mom is going to be pissed? Why do I even do this stupid sport! I suck at it! I can't even do the things I know how to do right, how the hell am I supposed to move on to level 4 next year? I am going to be the worst person in the group, and just simply look stupid in front of everyone. crap crap crap.
I then sleep the whole way home, so I don't have to think about if I should even continue doing gymnstics, considering I'm not going to get any better then I am now. shut up shut up! Just sleep. Sleep is nightmares, but at least nightmares aren't life. and they sometimes turn out good. I wonder what it would feel like to just open the door to the car and fall out. If I land head first, maybe it won't hurt all. It'd sure be better than putting up with all this crap. "No, I do not want to go to McDonalds! Leave me alone!" stupid pain in the a$$ mother, I've been vegitarian for 3 years. how the hell does she not know that? doesn't she even pay attention? she yells at me for not knowing where my backpack is, and grounds me, but she doesn't even know that I don't eat dead cow. just like her. f*ing dead cow. f*ing b*tch, I'm going to kick her dumb a$$, f*ck it. I don't care I DON'T F*ING CARE!!! F*CKKKK! where's the door handle?




now, this is what every day of every year is like for about 15 years. That is chronic depression. No matter what the situation is, the world is painful and crappy, and no one else seems to care. there are children dying slowly of hunger across the planet, but I'm forced to eat food I don't want! I'm sure that some starving kid will sleep better at night because I ate my brussel sprouts, then successfully threw them up, cause I TOLD YOU THEY MAKE ME GAG!! WHY DON'T YOU LISTEN TO ME! AAAAAAAAAAA!


it's like you're in a state of perpetual frustration with the world, and can't see beyond that. You focus on the possible negative outcomes, wether you want to or not; if you try to be happy, really try- force a smile and bear the situation, all you end up with is the question "are all the people faking happy too? cause if so, then why are we all pretending? If they are really happy, then why aren't I? I don't find this funny. I don't find this fun. I want to go sit under neith a tree and zone out from the world." Sleeping is not only a mental escape, but a physical demand. you are so stressed about everything you could possibly be stressed about that you can never really sleep. so you are always tired, always wanting more sleep, and never really getting it.
You get set aside by teachers, parents, and kids as "weird", and this simply proves to you that you are not normal. why try and succeed? you only screw it up and get yelled at.

So life beasically boils down to "try and fail" or "Don't try, and fail" You fail either way, so why try? Why not goof off, ditch school, smoke pot, cut yourself with a knife to make sure pain still feels the same, or kill yourself. life sucks.



The sadest part about all of this is that it's so easy to break out of this cycle once you know how. but until you know the path, it's imposisble. I found that medication was not a way to live, but I was able to use it to see how things *could* work. If I forgot my homework, so what? I'd do as much as possible, and if I got detention, so what? It gave me a quiet place to read. If the bullies were going to beat me up, so what? I was smarter than they were, I could easily find a way home which they did n't know about; or I could trick them into hitting me which a teacher was watching, and get them suspended, at the price of a bloody nose. Once I had the confidence to solve problems myself, and the wherewithall to know that my perminant record, what my mother thought, and how crappy my math score was were just missteps along the road- not failed goals in of themselves, things got easier. then I could do the homework, I could study for the test; I could pass the class, and not get suspended along the way, so I didn't have to worry about it anymore. Because I didn't feel like I had to worry as much, I didn't worry as much, wich gave me time to actually do the work, so It got done, and I began succeeding.

After almost failing kindergarden and first grade, have never passed spelling test my entire time in public school, I managed to study my ass off for the SAT's- using my own method based on how my brain worked- screw all the dumb ass teachers who thought they knew how to teach me- I learned nothing from them. so screw them- I'll teach myself. I got a high enough score to get into college, and I made a descition.

There was no way I was relying on drugs the rest of my life. No more tofranil, no more Zoloft, no more ritaline or welbutrin. If I couldn't live on my own abilities, was it really worth living the life of a normal American? I knew how to camp, I enjoyed the outdoors, If I failed out of school, I'd just drop everything, and move to the woods. I had no fear of doing it. Therefore, I had no fear.

So I went to school, told no one there of my learning disabilities, cut off all social ties, and simply studied, wrote, painted, I was a complete recluse, doing only what I wanted to do, and doing only what I needed to do to pass my classes. and crew, because rowing rocks. and I passed my first semester with all B's. I then passed the next smester. then the next. I have not taken any medication for about 7 years now. I own a house, have a dog and a steady job. a few good friends, and that's it. and I'm simple, and content with that.

Chronic depression is something where you see the world though glasses tainted the color of blood- even if you want to be happy, you can't; the world around you looks painfull and sad- and there is no way to change it. A butterfly isn't a butterfly, it's a thing just waiting to suffer huge pain as it died- eaten by a bird or burt by a flame or crushed under a car tire. A flower isn't pretty, it's a plant's deperate attempt to survive it's own death.

I know now that my mom wasn't always yelling at me; and even when she was, it was because she couldn't understand why I wasn't taking the gifts she was giving to me and using them to better myself. I didn't use them because I couldn't see them. I didn't even realise the gifts (gymnastics, medication, forced social events) were there! And she couldn't realise that I didn't see them.

Medication can help. It helped me. It helped me learn how my brain worked, how I had to learn. Once I knew that, I could teach myself how to live. No one else could do that job; I didn't know how to let them. And the chemical imbalance in my brain wouldn't let me learn how to let them.


That plus four things: boy scouts, gymnastics, martial arts, and crew. physical activities that didn't always make me happy, but which taught me things other people didn't know. Having knowledge over other people gave me a foothold to feel confident, to learn what it was like to be in a position where not *everyone* was looking down on me. From there it's a much smaller step to realise that you can actually help other people; there is always someone you can help- and helping can make you feel more calm and content than anything else. (at least this was they way it worked for me. If you are in a tough spot, try this stuff. if it doesn't work, try other stuff. the key is to find the things that you are good at, and f*ck all those people how say you suck because you can hit a fastball. it really makes absolutly no difference once the day of your death arrives. how have you bettered the world? How have you helped those next to you? Have you been honest to yourself, and worked on you weaknesses? Then when it comes time for you to pass away, you will have nothing to fret about- you have done all that you could with what you had. you could to nothing more. THAT is peace)

love to everyone. I hope this helps someone. It helpd me remeber how seriously frustrating those feelings were. I haven't felt them in a couple years now...I feel really bad for anyone still stuck in that depression. it doesn't matter. work hard, and it will go away. allow yourself to feel like crap, stay still and allow it to fester, and you'll stay in the same place forever. only you have the responsibility for yourself. everyone else has their own lives to deal with. Get up and change something, if you don't like it. even if you fail, you've done something, and "at least I tried" seriously feels alot better then "f*ck it, I'm going to fail anyway. where the Nintendo?" a week later.

Thats exactly how I live.

Thanks for sharing this , river-wind . I didn't or don't have continuous saddness , but I have been and occasionally do get frustrated and unhappy ...such is life . School can be very difficult for some people , especially for the young . They are just discovering not only the world around them , but also who they are ...who they want to be . Many place a high importance on fitting in ...not doing so can be very stressfull .

A couple questions ......You say : I was born with two learning diabilities and "Inherited Clinical Chronic Depression. Who told you this ?
Medication can help. It helped me... And the chemical imbalance in my brain ... Again , who told you this ? Was it the same people who tried to "correct" your brain chemistry ?

Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (ssri's) have frequent serious side effects like : "psychosis , mania , suicide ideation , sexual dysfunction , atrial fibrillation , confusion , dyskinesia , neuroleptic malignant syndrome-like events , pulmonary hypertension " etc...

..if you feel you have this.. go to a neuropsychologist or a neuroscientist...cuz psychology is way too outdated. find the physical basis for your problem.

:)

Originally posted by number7
Manic depressives, or bi-polar sufferers have EXTREMES of highs and lows.. nothing in between.. and are usually very creative people in the manic (high) phase. The drug lithium is used to stabilise the moods.

It is not the same as chronic depression..

hope this helps

Actually most people with the disorder spend much longer periods well, with a normal mood state, than they do sick. But when an episode occures it can be severe and prolonged.

You can also get a sort of "in between" type of episode called a "mixed episode" or "mixed mania." This is a state in which a patient has all the activation and impulsivity of a manic state plus the extreme hopelessness and guilt of depression. It often involves a psychotic break and carries a high risk for violence and suicide in some people.

Theories say Bipolar and Cyclothymic Disorders, as well as some forms of "regular" depression, are more common among professionals and creative types. Many actors and writers are sufferers. But so are many people who sleep under bridges. I'm sure background, social class, comorbidity, and other varied factors are involved.

"...most people with the disorder spend much longer periods well, with a normal mood state, than they do sick. "

How convenient . Some time they are happy and sometime they are unhappy . Everyone has mood swings . Seriously depressed people , most likely have something to be seriously depressed about . Take for instance the study that concluded that 80% of people in prison are "depressed" ... Well, duh .

From childrens education to the media , to our legal systems and political machinery ... a camarilla of pseudo - scientific , drug - pushing hucksters has encroached into all aspects of our lives .

Thanks for sharing this , river-wind . I didn't or don't have continuous saddness , but I have been and occasionally do get frustrated and unhappy ...such is life . School can be very difficult for some people , especially for the young . They are just discovering not only the world around them , but also who they are ...who they want to be . Many place a high importance on fitting in ...not doing so can be very stressfull .

A couple questions ......You say :
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was born with two learning diabilities and "Inherited Clinical Chronic Depression.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who told you this ?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medication can help. It helped me... And the chemical imbalance in my brain ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again , who told you this ? Was it the same people who tried to "correct" your brain chemistry ?

Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (ssri's) have frequent serious side effects like : "psychosis , mania , suicide ideation , sexual dysfunction , atrial fibrillation , confusion , dyskinesia , neuroleptic malignant syndrome-like events , pulmonary hypertension " etc..." etc...

To answer the first question: the Doctors. Phycolo -gists, -trists, and GP's. yep, the people who were trying to 'correct' my brain. I think it's a missclasification that I have a 'learning disability'- I can obviously learn. I just do it differently than most. that's not a disability, it's just a difference. But it's easier to call it a learning disability, because people more easily understand what I'm talking about. I should have said "I was diagnosed" as opposed to "I have", oops :)

as for the second question: no one told me. I can see, from and unmedicated, functional standpoint, that it helped me get to where I am. I would not start taking meds again, ever, but I'm glad I took them for a while. they were a useful tool at the time.

And I was pretty lucky w/ the side effects- I got dry mouth a bit, and the sexual side effects were more of a good thing- I lasted longer. More than one "only get out of bed to eat and pee for 3 days straight" sessions w/ the old gf :D We'll have to wait and see if there are any long-term side effects.

I think there's a difference between being sad or going through a rough spot in life and being clinically depressed, and i'm not going to blame it all on the doctors either.

for one thing, not everybody in highschool is obsessed with fitting in or establishing an identity. I can understand objectivly how there's so much social stresses in high school but I, for one, never was much a part of it. I had my little group of friends and we didn't do much but make A's (and that takes a lot of time and energy in the upper-level classes). you'd think that we were all living model lives here.

for another thing, I don't feel like letting someone tell me what to think and then just going along with it. the lable "depression" is all well and good if you're a doctor and feel like handing out drugs or assigning therapy. my motto is: don't take anyone's word for something if they're trying to take your money. i'm sure that the idea of clinical depression gets confused with other things like teen angst (*snicker*). but that doens't make it a myth.

there are people who's lives just suck and it can take them years and years to get over it even once they've removed themselves from the situation. my hypothesis (and everybody's got one) is that you train your mind to think one way when your survival is at stake and then when you get to a less stressful environment it's hard to retrain your mind into less of a defensive mode. (I'm thinking of this neurologically as well as psychologically)

i'm still not sure what you're supposed to call it when you wander around for 95% of your time feeling so emotionally sick that it's almost physical. and i'm even less sure what you're supposed to do about it. from an outsider's point of view it's easy to just say "get over it, stop thinking that way" but when you've been feeling this way for a long time it's hard to just change your mind.

Originally posted by Abnak
"...most people with the disorder spend much longer periods well, with a normal mood state, than they do sick. "

How convenient . Some time they are happy and sometime they are unhappy . Everyone has mood swings . Seriously depressed people , most likely have something to be seriously depressed about . Take for instance the study that concluded that 80% of people in prison are "depressed" ... Well, duh .

From childrens education to the media , to our legal systems and political machinery ... a camarilla of pseudo - scientific , drug - pushing hucksters has encroached into all aspects of our lives .

How convenient? Mania is unequal to happiness. Some people get classic euphoric manias, but they progress (in type I) to "stage three mania" in which psychosis and paranoid delusions can and frequently do occure. Other people get dysphoric manias, with severe anxiety or irritability. I doubt it's an invention of convenience, especially when it leads to a committals and life times of medication. Or job and marriage loss, and general discomfort.

And the depressive phase of Bipolar Disorder is more likely to involve suicidal and psychotic thinking, catatonic behavior, and delusions. It can go on for months and theoretically years, though this form is rare. Once again, not a matter of convenience. If it were, no one would expect a suicide rate of 15% of sufferers.

The episodes involved in real clinical BPD are not little ups and downs. They're severe, pathological affective and cognitive events, like an epileptic's seizures. In fact, the same medications treat both disorders.

Next you'll tell me schizophrenia is a valid life style choice.

You been reading Thomas Szasz silly libertarian pamphlets? Or are just a big Tom Cruise fan?

The point I was trying to make was that "depression" is over/mis diagnosed . The basis for much of the outright fraudulent misdiagnoses is that people experience stress , sometimes overwhelming stress ...their reactions can be normal , but instead are classified by some as having a permanent condition and chemical imbalance in need of drugs to "correct" this .

Many of the drugs used are so knowingly damaging that a reasonable person could conclude that these "doctors" have disregarded their own ethical codes in favor of personal profit .

It could be external or internal....perhaps certain cues (social)
evoke depressing thoughts...or could be bio chemical...
i think it is a combination of both...what ever bothers a person
can cause a chemical reaction in the body which can then
evoke behavior that is what we human beings presently call
depression....however, in a more advance stages of human evolution
we will probably call it something else....perhaps....
rejection of cues that are detrminental for the
evolution of the human mind....

Originally posted by Abnak
The point I was trying to make was that "depression" is over/mis diagnosed . The basis for much of the outright fraudulent misdiagnoses is that people experience stress , sometimes overwhelming stress ...their reactions can be normal , but instead are classified by some as having a permanent condition and chemical imbalance in need of drugs to "correct" this .

Many of the drugs used are so knowingly damaging that a reasonable person could conclude that these "doctors" have disregarded their own ethical codes in favor of personal profit .

I completely agree.



-----------------------
the difference between average people and people who truely have "clinical depression", and are not just depressed right now (as in short term):


happy
|.........................................|--------------|
|.........................................--Manic high
||-------------|......................---Range-----
|---Average-......................|---------------|
|----Person-..|--------------|.....................
|---Range---..---------------.......................
|--------------..-Depressed-.|---------------|
|--------------..---Range----..--Manic Low-
||-------------|.---------------..---Range-----
|...................|--------------|.|---------------|
depressed

So an average person have a range of good days and bad days, a depressed person has a range of bad days and average days, and a manic person has some of both, but very little of the average days. Keep in mind that this is a probability chart, so depressed people many have an actual good day, and an average person may have a seriously depressed time.

the problem is about the overall average level- that which is determined largely by your brain chemistry; whereas an average person's depression will be caused by environmental factors, such as the death of a loved one.


Misdiagnosis is a large problem, across the US and across the world. Much of the time, if an emotionally average person who has a bad week takes some anti-depressants, they will feel better. "Well," they think, "if medication for depressed people works for me, then I must be depressed!" And for some reason, doctors agree with them.

Most people are not clinically depressed, but stressed, unclear as to the goal of thier lives, overworked, and over depended on by others. If people want to get out of a depression, they should first look at what is causing the depression. really dig down, and be fully honest with themselves. it's not easy to look at yourself and your own faults and prejudeces. but once you see them, you can work on them. This tends to give people a sense of confidence, reduces stress, and aliviates depression. then you don't need drugs to get to where you want to be.
I still say that drugs can be a usefull tool if used responsibly, though. Use them as they are needed.


If anyone has a copy of Wired available, they have an article about the high % of medical doctors who are funded by pharmicutical compnaies, and whether or not that poses a conflict of interest. Something like 46% of doctors sposored by pharm companies are required to wait 6 months before publishing any R&D work done. Other doctors, whose continued grant $$ depends on the success of their current project, are involved in writing the recommened dosage/use for drugs that they have created. A bit worrysome, IMO.

River _wind , which anti-depressants are you talking about ? The SSRI's ?

-------------------

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N16375724.htm

http://society.guardian.co.uk/mentalhealth/comment/0,8146,922120,00.html

http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/news/0,8363,915731,00.html

http://www.motherjones.com/magazine/JA02/disorders.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/weekinweekout/stories/mindgames.shtml

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A42930-2002May6&notFound=true

I'm largley talking about the medications that I have personal or second-hand information on -welbutrin, tufranil, ritalin, etc... I try and avoid spreading any information that I gathered from any father away than that (friend of a friend, and such)- too close to rumor at that point ot be at all reliable, IMO.

I'm not sure which are classified as SSRI's



BTW, Mother Jone's is a great publication -thanks for the links!




edit: keep in mind that the subjects of the "sugar-pill" studies were "diagnosed with clinical dpression". however, these diagnosis are not done via chemical methods, but by phycologists, using anecdotal evidence. IF there is a mis-diagnosis about who is clinically (chemically) depressed, then the data coming out of studies of medication to treat depression would not mean much.

Many times, people who are depressed because of a chemical imballance have a strange reaction to stimulents- it slows them down. Many average people who take ADD medication by accident find that they feel excited and giddy. A completely opposite effect from what those w/ ADD expirience - a claming and centering effect.

so if the test population group is at all mis-diagnosed, then it is to be expected that ADD medication would cause some to get better, and others to get worse- net effect would be non-exhistant.

I can tell you from personal exp., though that ADD medication, when given to a person with different brain chemistry than average (toward the ADD end), can produce a profound effect in their ability to orginize thoughts and actions.

River-wind , thanks for taking the time to describe your experiences and most of all your honesty . I have not taken the drugs you mentioned . My source for adverse effects is the PDR . I did take an Adderall once , at 1/3 the dosage (by body weight) as is commonly given to kids . Since it is a d-amphetamine , amphetamine mixture ...I was speeding for 12 hours . I do however, have experience with phrenologists posing as medical doctors . This is the reason for much of my disgust .

------------------------

From the Physicians Desk Reference :

Bupropion hydrochloride (welbutrin) , an antidepressant of the aminoketone class, is chemically unrelated to tricyclic, tetracyclic, or other known antidepressant agents. Its structure closely resembles that of diethylpropion; it is related to phenylethylamines.

Seizures:
Bupropion is associated with seizures in approximately 0.4% (4/1000) of patients treated at doses up to 450 mg/day. This incidence of seizures may exceed that of other marketed antidepressants by as much as fourfold.

Precautions:
Agitation and Insomnia: A substantial proportion of patients treated with bupropion experience some degree of increased restlessness, agitation, anxiety, and insomnia, especially shortly after initiation of treatment.

Psychosis, Confusion, and Other Neuropsychiatric Phenomena: Patients treated with bupropion have been reported to show a variety of neuropsychiatric signs and symptoms including delusions, hallucinations, psychotic episodes, confusion, and paranoia.

Activation of Psychosis and/or Mania: Antidepressants can precipitate manic episodes in Bipolar Manic Depressive patients during the depressed phase of their illness and may activate latent psychosis in other susceptible patients. Bupropion is expected to pose similar risks.

-------------------------------------

Imipramine (Tofranil) is a tricyclic antidepressant with general pharmacological properties similar to those of structurally related tricyclic antidepressant drugs such as amitriptyline and doxepin.

Side effects :
CNS:
Frequently: Tremors. Occasionally: drowsiness, fatigue, insomnia, dizziness, headache, paresthesia (numbness, tingling sensation, symptoms suggestive of peripheral neuropathy).

Behavioral:
Occasionally: Confusional states (especially in the elderly) with hallucinations, disorientation, delusions, anxiety, agitation, restlessness, nightmares, hypomania, mania, exacerbation of psychosis, decrease in memory, feeling of unreality. In isolated cases: Feeling of weakness, aggressiveness.

------------------------

Ritalin (methylphenidate) adverse effects are the same as amphetamine and cocaine ! Every thing from psychosis , heart damage to formacation ( sensation of bugs or worms crawling on/under skin )

This JAMA/AMA link has an interesting quote : "We know that social interactions can increase dopamine receptors,"

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:5WZStshNmDEC:jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v286n8/ffull/jmn0822-1.html+pay+attention+ritalin&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

edit: Welbutrin is not a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) , it is a Dopamine reuptake blocker .

an interesting side note is that welbutrin is now being marketed as a pill to help stop smoking:

Zyban
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/addiction/archive/7.html



thanks for the information- very helpful! I'm surprised that Tofranil side effects doesn't have "heart rate irregularities" listed, as I used to have to get blood tests and EEG's every few months while I was on it. Maybe it was to check for the develoment of psycosis-like neuro-patterns, and not for my heart, as my Mother had told me...

River , the moderators removed my post several days ago . I speculate it was because I had included additional PDR quotes ( these are available on many different web sites ) .
You are correct about concerns regarding the heart when using Tofranil .

Seriously, what constitutes chronic depression?

I don't really know. Mabye it is when your ex-girlfriend catches you drinking MIller High Life on her roof screams and then tells you to go home. Home. And when you get there you pop open a bottle Jack Daniels and proceed to clean your gun underneath a gently swinging naked bulb. Pills help. They make you go outside and walk into the the dense weeds surrounding your trailer where you freeze in awkward posistions in order to convince yourself time has frozen. And it works too, until your boss calls at 7am to ask where his ambulance driver is. A tinny little voice in the mind that is. But hey, who knows? It could be anything.