View Full Version : We never had an Empire.


bhudmaash
06-28-03, 11:12 AM
Ok...I'm kind of typing this as the thought process is happening.
Now , often stupid remarks (well not stupid per se but those that have come out with the owner of the mouth not having spent too much time thinking things through), often such remarks make one think anyway, since those with a modicum of intelligence have to put the moron straight.
Remark in question went something like:
"...well all you muslims have your place, why can't the Israelis have their place?"

After explaining that irespective of Mecca being the location of the holiest site for Muslims, Saudi would still have a Muslm population, if the kaba was in say russia, Saudi would still be all Muslim. Secondly Using Saudi as an comparitive example to the Israel'pally conflict is nonsensical, since the indiginous population os Saudi have been subject of conversion(to Islam) over history. Now the only way one could use saudi as a comparitive, is thus:
If saudi population was non Muslim, and the Kaba still existed in Mecca as the holiest Muslim site, and lets say the Muslims of Pakistan, or Indonesia (or any other place) said we have a relegious right to Mecca, so we want saudi land, so the Non Muslims living indigiously in Saudi.
Ultimately all this boils done to a few simple facts bourne out of history. Firtly, there exist today entire countries or states which are either Muslim or Christian, due to a simple majority of numbers, and this is down to the fact that both christianity and Islam both had the historical mechanism for the propegation and proliferation of their respective cultures ie: EMPIRES.
The christians had the Romans, the Muslims had the Persian, and Ottoman (jihad please feel free to expand and add others) empires. Hence we have the large numbers of the two main faiths.
Now the Jews are in a different position, mainly due to the fact that when they were chased out by the Babylonians they dispersed and over history many converted to C/I hence erradication of the true Israelites.
Now this brings me onto the main point that I kind of want to get out, and I am going to use the Pakistani Muslims as a comparitive here.
The Indians who were Muslim wanted their own Muslim state, fair enough. The state would depend on their ethnicity, ie indian/asian whatever you care to name it. hence the state would be in the same geographical area since it was down to demographics: the Muslims of THAT area wanted their own state, hence Pakistan.
If we are to use the Pakistan case and aply it to the current Isr/pally conflict, it would be like the Pakistanis saying well "well we're muslims, we have a connection with the Quresh hence we want saudi land"
I think this example illustrates the inherent weakness of the Israeli (or more correctly zionist) premise.
The Zioinists who want Israel claim link with Hebrew Israelites: WRONG they are Ashkenazim, of euro/slav stock whose euro ancestors converted to Judasim.
So the Ashkenazim CANNOT claim Hebrew heritage THE SAME WAY THAT Pakistanis CANNOT claim to be decendants of the original Quresh..off course not, their ancestors al converted from Sikhs/Hindus.
So that brings me to Pakistan. The Pak Muslims got their Muslim state based on their ethnicity..fine.
Thus the Ashkenazim ON THE SAME BASIS ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR JEWISH STATE , but should also be based on their ethnicity, hence should be somewhere in Europe.

Jihad_AlifLamLamHah
06-28-03, 11:50 AM
Thus the Ashkenazim ON THE SAME BASIS ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR JEWISH STATE , but should also be based on their ethnicity, hence should be somewhere in Europe.

I have the perfect location for the Jewish state : NYC . They already have 1 M Jews there , they already have total economical & cultural controll over the area , why not ? Everything we know from NYC is bound to be Jewish , why not make it official ?

* For the peoples Im concerned about little would change
* USA would be forced to show its true self

A historical and ethnical righteous place for Zionism however , would be nothing other then Berlin , in any way you look at it . Give them Berlin

Buhd the situation of the colonists in Palestine is indeed as you say it , indeed their entire reasoning is false (their excuse is whiped away) and you might want to take a look at the other excuse of the holocaust as well . Not by far am I denying that it happened , but Zionism role wasnt really "resistance" if you know what I mean . They incited anti-semitism , they praised racial separatism & collaborated with the Nazi's . Anti-semitism was not their excuse , it was their weapon .

You should read Lenni Brenner's book (http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/)

the Muslims had the Persian, and Ottoman

Not to forget the Chaliph , & Jews had Khazaria .

bhudmaash
06-28-03, 12:01 PM
A historical and ethnical righteous place for Zionism however , would be nothing other then Berlin , in any way you look at it . Give them Berlin

..yup. Why not? already an economic shit hole, could do with Amerikaan bucks...yeas I think that would do nicely..no seriously I'm not being glib, it is the natural soloution based on the arguments I put forward,
And just like Millions of Muslims around the world who visit mecca, the Ashkenazim would be welcome to come to Palastine to kiss their wall, hell they could even move there. providing they became Palastinian citizens..perfect.

but jihad, we just killed Ariel Bombardment's poltical career, what would the crusty old git do??
..move to Florida:D

Jihad_AlifLamLamHah
06-28-03, 12:14 PM
Sharon should change his name back to Arik Scheinerman and move to Berlin and run the show make a Greater-Berlin for all I care .

Hey I wonder , obviously it would give Zionism a nice twist (turn it upside down actually) , could we bring in Yiddish instead of Hebrew ? ...... it would be native tongue and much nicer fitting in the environment . Also if the entire project-Hebrew would be off , what would the religious views say ? Nothing wrong with a Jewish non-Hebrew state everywhere but in Israel is it ?

Lets call it Yiddenland .
:D

bhudmaash
06-28-03, 12:29 PM
what, do you think the Ultra-ortho Jews would kick up a stink over project Berlin??

...hmmm they should'nt do, I mean for the "real" ortho jews, who believe they cannot go back to Pally untill the coming of the mesiah, Project Berlin would be perfect compromise, and as for the other ZZtop psuedo ultra orthodox,...well they'd have to just shut up and bear it. They're getting Berlin for god's sake, 90% of the main infrastructure is being handed to them on a plate, the pallys have got nothing but rubble.

The only real problem would be a slight migraton problem (with the Germans), but hell the Hindus/Muslims did it in Pak/India, so it can be done.

And it would be some kind of poetic justice, recompense for the Holocaust, the Ashkenazim come back to their spiritual home, and get their own state.

As for Yiddish/Hebrew....they can speak Punjabi for all I care, it's their state;)

WasiGermany
06-28-03, 01:01 PM
what the hell are you guys talking about :D
i think you both are still sleeping and dreaming ;)

bhudmaash
06-28-03, 01:05 PM
C'mon wasi, u know it makes sense. Nothing we have said has not been based on rational, objective logic.
OK, do you at least agree with the essence of my original post??

Jihad_AlifLamLamHah
06-28-03, 01:10 PM
what the hell are you guys talking about

Yea we know you wouldnt like it bro :p

As for Yiddish/Hebrew....they can speak Punjabi for all I care, it's their state

The thing is , that Yiddish has more advantages :
* The Orthodox Jews can accept it (They consider the whole Hebrew-project quite disrespecting)
* It easier to fit in with the natives , German & Yiddish arent THAT much different .
* Its supposed to be native-Ashkenazim tongue

The only real problem would be a slight migraton problem (with the Germans),

They killed Eichman didnt they ? ......... toobad he was a mastermind when it came to moving peoples around :p

ut hell the Hindus/Muslims did it in Pak/India

I am so little aware of that history (I will have to read upon alot of it because it does interest me alot) , I didnt know there was a serious migration-proces , I more or less assumed that the Paki-area was all Muslim ..... I check Cia.Gov ...... seems you guys really have quite some various ethnic groups going on , how is that holding ? I mean its not just religion that could be presented as a "stand in the way" right ?

Oh a nice RACIST thing I found on Cia.gov , the ethnic-group of the Indians is being called Indo-Aryan (because of the supposedly Aryan invasion etc) . Now not that I deny the caucasian intermixing , but why dont they mention it for instance with the Arabs ? Or the Turkics (who are fully caucasians) ? Why aint they "Aryan" ?

bhudmaash
06-28-03, 01:18 PM
yeah i heard of this arian thing too. Although if you look at sikhs (punjab side of india) they do have the bone structure simular to euro arians, ..dunno, we someone who is well versed in this area to put things straight.
But one thing I did hear a while ago is that geneticists have now concluded that the original inhabitants of what is now "europe" were direct decendants of middle eastern peoples.

HA! all you euro/caucasian white supremist "master" race are just arab wannabees deep down,


Yeah, there was a lot of blood shed during partition in india/pak.
irony is that on numbers alone, there are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan.

i think you both are still sleeping and dreaming

man, if u don't have dreams, how u gonna have any dreams coem true?;)

Jihad_AlifLamLamHah
06-28-03, 01:38 PM
they do have the bone structure simular to euro arians

That would prove more that the "euro" facial structure isnt caucasian but existed before , rather than that it was some very deep intermixing : A point would be for instance very very dark skincolor and very very euro faces . Thats weirdx mixing wouldnt you say .

U might wanna check out this thread :

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24008&perpage=20&pagenumber=4

But one thing I did hear a while ago is that geneticists have now concluded that the original inhabitants of what is now "europe" were direct decendants of middle eastern peoples.

Its quite logical to conclude the origin is west-central asian (the Turkic area)

HA! all you euro/caucasian white supremist "master" race are just arab wannabees deep down,

Actally Turkic wannabees ...... but then again thats not blond-blue ..... what a dilemma , lol . Ofcours ein the nazi-mind the blue-blond God has shit to do with west-asia , but origins in some underwater-world called Atlantis . :p

Anyways ...... not Arab . Arab is a linguistic makeup with very deep cultural and religious influences . Arabs differ in race just like Americans differ in race , only thing is Arabs "evolved" through intense mixing creating a nice "natural" line between the mostly Caucasians (north) , Nubians (Sudan-Africa) , Semite Arabians (Saudi) and Berbers (Maghreb)

bhudmaash
06-28-03, 01:59 PM
Anyways ...... not Arab . Arab is a linguistic makeup with very deep cultural and religious influences . Arabs differ in race just like Americans differ in race , only thing is Arabs "evolved" through intense mixing creating a nice "natural" line between the mostly Caucasians (north) , Nubians (Sudan-Africa) , Semite Arabians (Saudi) and Berbers (Maghreb)

yeah... was using the term Arab in a lose generalised way (u know what I mean;) )

When I visited medina, the Hotel in which we stayed in was run by a guy who to all intents and purposes was "white" I mean the dude looked like he was from England or where ever. I was young then, and hence a bit confused as to what this dude was doing in Medina. Later found out that he was Arab, born and bred in saudi, obviously decendant of the caucasian peoples u mention.

Jihad_AlifLamLamHah
06-28-03, 02:18 PM
Later found out that he was Arab, born and bred in saudi, obviously decendant of the caucasian peoples u mention.

Here's an example : Usama Bin Laden . His dada is Saudi , his mammie is Syrian . Saudi's are more likely to tend towards Semites , Syrians are more likely to tend towards Caucasians . Some migrate , some mix , thing is we're all Arab .

Wow you've been in Medina ....... I envy you :)
So you surely didnt miss out on Mecca either ?
Must have been wonderfull (for as far thats possible under the rulership of those Wahbi facists wannabe-nobles)

Here's a nice site about mostly forgotten Arabs
http://www.sudan101.com/people_groups.htm