1. My freind said that you do not need to be dependent on an ouside company to provide your land with water.

You can dig a hole really deep in the ground, and pump the water out from underground. Set up your own plumbing and sewage system on your own land withuot the need for any external dependence.

I was wondering how valid this was, and if there are websites that can show how this is done.

Here is one I found about swimming pool systems with no need for chlorine or chemicals:
http://www.superiorwater.com/pools.html

They also have other systems for water treatment.


2. What is the best (cleanest and most efficient) technology to provide independent energy for your land? That way, you do not need to be dependent on an external power company. Assuming you own a fairly large peice of land. Say a small building complex with 40 units.

You can dig a hole really deep in the ground, and pump the water out from underground. Set up your own plumbing and sewage system on your own land withuot the need for any external dependence.

In most cities, drilling water wells is illegal without a permit ...and no city would give you a permit to drill for water!

Sewage system? No, no, no!! That's REALLY illegal inside every city that I've ever heard of. Sewage must be treated before it can be released into the ecological system of the city ...can you imagine how it would be if a milion people dumped their sewage into the ground around their homes???? ...LOL!

Baron Max

But he could use his crap for power, never thought of that did you?

You could use a composting toilet and get a permit for the well, which is a good idea anyway. Read "Mother Jones", and there are several other self-sufficiency mags.

baron; who said he was talking about a city?

Many people around where I live water their lawn with well water. Its not considered potable, but it may be with some treatment.

-AntonK

Max, many millions of people in most of the developed countries _do_ dump sewage discharge into the ground around their homes. After its been treated of course. It's called a septic tank. ;)

Most farmsteads here in the States have there own water wells. The main concern is nitrate contamination from fertilizer. It is recommended that they be periodically tested, both for chemical and bacterial contaminates, but it isn't all that big of a problem.

Max, many millions of people in most of the developed countries _do_ dump sewage discharge into the ground around their homes. After its been treated of course. It's called a septic tank. ;)

Yeah, and if everyone did that, would you then expect to drill water wells to provide you with fresh, potable water? ...LOL!

That's precisely why we have the permit requirements for septic tanks and leaching fields. That's also why cities pump the fresh water through pipes instead of pumping it out of the ground under the sewage leaching fields!

Humans are contaminating and polluting enough of the environment as it is, yet y'all seem to want to do more contaminating and polluting. Why?

Baron Max

I don't think you understand, Baron. If you dig a well, you might have to use a company to do it for you, but ultimately, you will get your water for free. The only energy you use will be to pump it up. I lived in a house where the water pressure was pumped up every morning with a bicycle arrangement. Bam! No more expensive gym membership, either!

Composting toilets are very cool, too. It's built up on a deck or tower, and you just throw down some wood chips or sawdust every time. You can use the compost to grow vegetables.

I don't think you understand, Baron. If you dig a well, you might have to use a company to do it for you, but ultimately, you will get your water for free.

But, Spider, to do that, you must live out in the country ...away from any and all other people. And by doing so, you'd then have to drive into town/cities to get other necessary supplies to sustain yourself and your family. So ...where's the savings? City water and sewer is cheap ...fuel for a car to drive into town is expensive. Where's the savings?

Composting toilets are very cool, too. .... You can use the compost to grow vegetables.

Hmm, I don't think you can use human shit as fertilizer for food crops ...there's horrendous bacteria and viruses of all kinds in human shit!!!

Not only that issue, Spider, but what does one do for food in the winter? And if you have to go into town for supplies, where's the savings?

How do you heat your home? Where do you get electricity for your lights and computer? ....and phone access for you Internet connection?

Idealizing a way of life can seem soooo wonderful ....until you actually examine it using a little reality and common sense.

Baron Max

What supplies?

You don't use the shit directly, that would be dangerous, but after it is composted, it is safe.

You could use passive solar energy, burn wood in the winter, insulate your house well, can your vegetables or store potatoes in the cellar, solar panels for electricity or build a wood powered generator, ride a bike to town. Some people do live off the grid, but it takes some ingenuity. It's not for everyone.

A better approach to saving energy would be more comprehensive, including urban planning, local agriculture, clean public transportation, ect.

You're funny, Spider! Idealism is great, ain't it? ...LOL!

Just curious, however, ....burn wood in the winter? Wood-powered generator? Where would you get the wood? And how many millions of people are doing this in the same area where all these trees grow? ...LOL!

Sorry, Spider, I realize that idealism is fun to think about and talk about, but it just don't work with one throws in some of the realities of life.

Baron Max

It's not idealism, but realism. I happen not to think that becoming an island unto one's self out in the country is the answer, but sustainable technologies will become more and more important into the future, and people that become more self-reliant are the pioneers. Probably the cities are the most environmentally friendly places to live.

If you have some land in a suburb, there are things you can do to reduce consumption that are practical. Composting kitchen waste, growing a garden, collecting rain for summertime watering, increasing insulation, buying low-energy use appliances, riding a bike for local trips, ect.

Peak oil is now or near, better get ready.

Where would you get the wood?
If you have an "estate", you have wood.

If you have an "estate", you have wood.

Yeah, and does that mean that you'd recommend that millions of people burn wood and pump that pollution out into the atmosphere? ...and let the wind blow it onto some other dumb sap's property? ...LOL!

Yes, I saw your other post, and I almost agree with it. My problem with it is the issue of people doin' shit that hasn't been tested, checked, verified, etc, and actually causing more problems than they solve. Not to mention the issues that might arise with neighbors, etc. In other words, such efforst need to be permitted by the cities/counties/states, monitored and approved.

Baron Max

that seems to be what america is doing at the moment. you positioned power plants so that the wind would carry pollutants into canada before settling to the ground and becoming toxic to the people and wildlife.

that seems to be what america is doing at the moment. you positioned power plants so that the wind would carry pollutants into canada before settling to the ground and becoming toxic to the people and wildlife.

Yeah, Canada doesn't have any power plants and doesn't use electricity at all, do they? Canda is so fuckin' clean and pristine that one can lick the city streets and get nothing but sweetness and honey! ....LOL!

It's all America's fault! ...LOL!

Baron Max

Yeah, and does that mean that you'd recommend that millions of people burn wood and pump that pollution out into the atmosphere? ...and let the wind blow it onto some other dumb sap's property? ...LOL!


Better than coal or oil. At least the hydrocarbons are already active in the environment, and the fuel source is directly renewable. And particulate smoke from wood fire can be significantly reduced by proper methods (dry wood, proper wood arrangement).


Living off-grid is possible - the grid was only introduced to life in the past 100 years. In many places, well water combined with proper sewage systems (composting toilets, greywater treatement systems, septic tanks), along with solar power augmented with roof-mounted wind turbines allow for most modern amenities without the need to pay water or electricity companies.

Just be aware of the laws in your area before you go doing anything - like cutting stabalization wires of the electrical pole next to your property:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06148/693838-58.stm

Yup, what he said.

I'm not sure what you're talking about:
shit that hasn't been tested, checked, verified, etc

Most of the stuff I've been saying is old technology, check your copy of the Whole Earth Catalog, dude.