Look bells !! I dont give a SHIT about Hitler nor about the Nazis, time to expose the HOLOHOAX scam and move on, hitler was evil bastard and he did terrible thing, but exploiting this tragedy by the jews has to stop...hell even famous JEW wrote a book about that:

THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY

A new, expanded edition of The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/id44.htm


I did a little investigating on this matter about a year ago. So far I found that the antiholocaust argument hinges only on conspiracy theories. What do you think?

Look, Hitler was mad man, he was mass killer, he certainly killed millions of innocent people but to make the holocaust exculsively jewish is SCAM and an insult to all the victims of hitler nazi era !

The 6 million jewish figure is NONESENSE, illogical and LIE.

I think it is a disgrace that this putrid shit is allowed to be propagated on this forum which apparently should be attractive to scientific minded people.

I see, so the Jewish holocaust is HOLY UNTOUCHABLE SUBJECT, you cant even debate it !! make you wonder about the influence of the jews in our world today that make the holocaust UNTOUCHABLE subject.

Man !! it was HOLOHOAX.

Look, Hitler was mad man, he was mass killer, he certainly killed millions of innocent people but to make the holocaust exculsively jewish is SCAM and an insult to all the victims of hitler nazi era !

The 6 million jewish figure is NONESENSE, illogical and LIE.
That's right you degenerate. 5.6 to 5.9 million Jews were exterminated during the holocaust, along with 5 million non Jewish individuals. It is you who have insulted all the victims of the Hitler Nazi era.

Where is James?

I did a little investigating on this matter about a year ago. So far I found that the antiholocaust argument hinges only on conspiracy theories. What do you think?

In court, the preceding are called leading and complex questions.

My historical knowledge is terrible but all I know is that on my dad's side, they are all polish jews and they all had to flee to Britain so that they would not die. Many did die but I am not sure they were persecuted alone if you know what i mean. Hitlers ethnic cleansing program extended way beyond the Jews.
I do think its a mistake however to undermine something awful by calling it a holohoax. Even if the historical facts are incorrect and i am not saying they are cos i dont know, but it is quite a terrible thing that so many people were treated worse than animals in a slaughterhouse. The only thing we really should be agreeing on is never letting our politicians / leaders become bigotted and hateful enough to emulate the deeds of Hitler. However if we continue in our own bigotry how can the world ever unify. something to ponder on ...

peace

c20

That's right you degenerate. 5.6 to 5.9 million Jews were exterminated during the holocaust, along with 5 million non Jewish individuals. It is you who have insulted all the victims of the Hitler Nazi era.

Bullshit !! the figure about non jews is correct but the jewish figure is A LIE.

How many deaths at Auschwitz?

9,000,000 persons
according to the documentary film Nuit et Brouillard (Tr.'s Note: "Night and Fog", title used in the English-speaking world) (1955), whose historical advisers were the historian Henri Michel and the woman historian Olga Wormser-Migot (1)
8,000,000 persons
according to the French War Crime Research Office and the French War Crime Information Service) (1945) (2)
7,000,000 persons
according to Raphaël Feigelson (1945) (3)
6,000,000 Jews
according to Tibère Kremer, writer of a foreword for Miklos Nyiszli (1951) (4)
5,000,000 to 5,500,000 persons
according to Bernard Czardybon (1945), according to confessions attributed to some SS members and according to the newspaper Le Monde (1978), which was adding: "of whom 90% of Jews" (5)
4,500,000 persons
according to Henryk Mandelbaum (1945) (6)
4,000,000 persons
according to a Soviet document of which the Nuremberg tribunal took "judicial notice". This figure was inscribed nineteen times, with a commentary in as many different languages, on the Auschwitz-Birkenau monument. It was repeated by a sizable number of persons, including the Polish historian Franciszek Piper. It was to be declared false in 1990 and replaced, on the monument, in 1995, by the figure of 1,500,000 with the concurrence of the same F. Piper for whom this figure is a maximum while the minimum figure is of 1,100,000. According to Miriam Novitch (1967), of the 4,000,000 dead, 2,700,000 were Jewish. According to Rabbi Moshe Weiss (1991), more than 4,000,000 persons died at Auchwitz, of whom 3,000,000 were Jews. (7)
3,500,000 persons
according to the Dictionnaire de la langue française (Tr.'s Note: Dictionary of the French language) published by Hachette (1991). According to Claude Lanzmann (1980), there were 3,500,000 gassed of whom 95% of Jews as well as many other deaths (8)
3,000,000 persons
until December 1st, 1943, according to a confession extorted from Rudolf Höss, ex-Commander of Auschwitz (9)
3,000,000 Jews gassed
according to David Susskind (1986) and according to Heritage, the most inmportant Californian Jewish weekly (1993) (10)
2,500,000 persons
according to Rudolf Vrba for the Eichmann trial (1961) (11)
2,000,000 (?) to 4,000,000 (?)
according to the historian Yehuda Bauer (1982) (12)
2,000,000 to 3,000,000 Jews killed as well as thousands of non-Jews
according to a confession attributed to an SS in charge, Pery Broad (13)
2,000,000 to 2,500,000 persons killed
according to a confession attributed to an SS physician, Dr. Friedrich Entress (1945) (14)
2,000,000 persons
according to the historian Léon Poliakov (1951); according to the historian Georges Wellers (1973) and according to the woman historian Lucy Davidowicz (1975) (15)
1,600,000 persons
according to the historian Yehuda Bauer (1989), of whom 1,352,980 Jews (16) (the latter figure is from Georges Wellers, 1983)
1,500,000 persons
this figure, chosen by Lech Walesa, replaced, in 1995, on the Birkenau monument, that of 4,000,000 which had been withdrawn in 1990 (17)
1,471,595 persons
of whom 1,352,980 Jews, according to the historian Georges Wellers (1983) (18)
1,250,000 persons or so
of whom 1,000,000 Jews killed and more than 250,000 non-Jews dead, according to the historian Raul Hilberg (19)
1,100,000 to 1,500,000 persons
according to the historians Yisrael Gutman, Michael Berenbaum and Franciszek Piper (1994) (20)
1,000,000 persons
according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1989) and according to the Dictionnaire des noms propres (Tr.'s Note: Dictionary of proper nouns) published by Hachette (1992) (21)
800,000 to 900,000 persons
according to the historian Gerald Reitlinger (1953) (22)
775,000 to 800,000 persons
according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1993), of whom 630,000 were Jews gassed (23)
630,000 to 710,000 persons
according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1994), of whom from 470,000 to 550,000 were Jews gassed. (24)
To my knowledge, the latter appraisal (from 630,000 to 710,000 persons) is the lowest that those who believe in the physical extermination of the Jews ever provided. It is said sometimes that in 1946/1947, the Polish judicial authorities admitted the figure of 300,000 deaths. That is an error. Those authorities estimated the total of the dead at 300,000 persons registered on their arrival, but, to that figure, they added the figure of 3,000,000 to 4,000,000 unregistered persons (25).

During more than forty years, the Soviet, Polish and Federal Republic of Germany authorities showed themselves very discreet on the existence of mortuary registers (Sterbebücher) which had been kept during the war by the Auschwitz camp authorities. Under the pressure of the revisionists, at the two Zündel trials (Toronto, 1985 and 1988) in particular, those authorities at long last made revelations on those registers. They assert having retrieved registers but for the period from July 27, 1941 to December 31, 1943. Since the camp was opened May 20, 1940 and as the Germans evacuated it January 18, 1945, that period represents a little more than half the duration of the camp's existence under their authority. The registers retrieved are, it appears, in the number of 46 and would include 69,000 names (and not 74,000 as was said by certain journalists) (26).

The supporters of the official version of the "Holocaust" have experienced some discomfort facing the necessity, imposed by the revisionists, to revise downwards, in such proportions, the number of the Auschwitz deaths. How can it be explained that at the Nuremberg trial (1945-1946), such a deception had been taken straight off "judicial notice" of, thanks to Section 21 of that Tribunal's Charter? How can it be explained that, during official ceremonies, so many of this world's Greats, including Pope John Paul II, were asked to come and bow in front of such an invention of quacks? How can it be explained that in 1990, France equipped itself with an anti- revisionist law section forbidding any disputing of the "crimes against humanity" such as described and evaluated by the Nuremberg tribunal? And then, how can the figure of 5,000,000 to 6,000,000 Jews dead during the whole war be protected from any revision, if it was necessary to revise to that extent the figure of the deaths of Auschwitz?

Today, some Jews explain that the Poles, and they alone, would have invented the Auschwitz 4,000,000 lie. Actuated by antisemitism and nationalistic pride simultaneously, the Poles would have added to nearly 1,500,000 Jewish deaths about 2,500,000 Polish or other deaths! (27)

This explanation is but a contrivance. The truth is that, as early as by the war's end, not only the Communistic Jews, but also the judicial authorities of Poland had been repeating that the majority of the Auschwitz deaths was Jewish. At Cracow, in 1946-1947, about the case of Rudolf Höss, the investigating magistrate as well as the prosecution had concluded that, besides a few hundred thousand "recorded" deaths, there had been at Auschwitz either 4,000,000 or at least 2,500,000 deaths, "most of them Jewish" (28).

During the winter of 1963-1964, a specific monument was built in memory of the "millions of Jews, martyrs and fighters" exterminated in that camp; the inscription was in Polish, in Yiddish and in Hebrew. (29)

Let us add finally that, for the historians of the "Holocaust", most of the Auschwitz Jews would have been KILLED by means of an insecticide: Zyklon B. For Arthur R. Butz and for other revisionists, the total number of the Auschwitz deaths must have risen to some 150,000, of whom about 100,000 Jews (30).

Most of the Jews were not KILLED but DIED, above all because of the typhus epidemics. The revisionists point out that, if the Germans had had at their disposal greater quantities of the Zyklon B insecticide precisely in order to fight those epidemics, fewer people would have died in Auschwitz not only among the Jews, the Poles, the Russians and other detainees, but also among the German physicians, civil servants and warders.

Inscription on the Auschwitz-Birkenau monument until April 3, 1990

"FOUR MILLION PEOPLE SUFFERED AND DIED HERE AT THE HANDS OF THE NAZI MURDERERS BETWEEN THE YEARS 1940 AND 1945." *

Inscription on the same monument in 1995

"MAY THIS PLACE WHERE THE NAZIS ASSASSINATED A MILLION AND A HALF MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN, A MAJORITY OF THEM JEWS FROM DIVERSE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, BE FOREVER FOR MANKIND A CRY OF DESPAIR AND OF WARNING." *

References and notes for the above numbers can be found below. It is suggested that it be printed out for easy reference.

http://www.corax.org/revisionism/misc/auschwitz_deaths.html

The truth is easy to prove here. All we have to do get some authoritative STATISTICAL data. Lets compare the global jewish population before WWII, after, and presently.

Can anyone do this?

You degenerate. You are aware that Auschwitz was not the only concentration camp created by the Nazis don't you? There were concentration camps dotted throughout the occupied territories of Europe.

My God, you astound me. Actually no, you repulse me.

very good idea doctor.......let us see if someone will do this ?

The truth is easy to prove here. All we have to do get some authoritative STATISTICAL data. Lets compare the global jewish population before WWII, after, and presently.

Can anyone do this?

Did you people ever go to school?

Did you people ever go to school?

Yeah but I dont remember anybody showing me the statistics before WWII. So far I trust the authorities on world history that the holocaust did occur. But I will keep an open mind.

We were brought up with the consequences of the WWII because we were under occupation. To even deny to what happened to the jews in holland is in my mind bordering on being perverse.

Asking for statistics is similar in nature.

Read Anne Franks diary.

edit- and this is the last I will say on this topic.

Yeah but I dont remember anybody showing me the statistics before WWII. So far I trust the authorities on world history that the holocaust did occur. But I will keep an open mind.

This might help !

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gifs/Jewpop.gif
Estimated Jewish population of Europe in 1939.

If you add up the total in every state you wont even get 5 million !! IT PROVES THE JEWISH HOLOCAUST AND THE 6 MILLION FIGURE WAS INDEED HOLOHOAX !!

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery/jewpop.htm

I think you haven't earned that Autobot symbol. You can't just go around flashing meaningful icons because you feel like it.

I think you haven't earned that Autobot symbol. You can't just go around flashing meaningful icons because you feel like it.

How does one earn the Autobot symbol? Even Decepticons are allowed to wear Autobot symbols on the promise that they will truly switch sides.

If you add up the total in every state you wont even get 5 million !! IT PROVES THE JEWISH HOLOCAUST AND THE 6 MILLION FIGURE WAS INDEED HOLOHOAX !!

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery/jewpop.htm

If that map is anywhere near accurate then the holocaust at best is an exaggeration.

If one person dies unjustly at the hands of another it is a terrible thing. I think to argue about numbers is crass and i dont understand what is to be gained from the discussion. If someone can set me straight fair enough.

This might help !

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gifs/Jewpop.gif
Estimated Jewish population of Europe in 1939.

If you add up the total in every state you wont even get 5 million !! IT PROVES THE JEWISH HOLOCAUST AND THE 6 MILLION FIGURE WAS INDEED HOLOHOAX !!

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery/jewpop.htm

Without doing any math whatsoever, simply on the basis of a cursory examination, I can tell you that the totals are *well* over six million.

Repeating a previous question, DID you ever go to school?

Without doing any math whatsoever, simply on the basis of a cursory examination, I can tell you that the totals are *well* over six million.

Repeating a previous question, DID you ever go to school?

Yes you are right. The total comes up to 6,184,500. Not counting the jews of Russia.

If one person dies unjustly at the hands of another it is a terrible thing. I think to argue about numbers is crass and i dont understand what is to be gained from the discussion. If someone can set me straight fair enough.


Of course:

It is the creation of hatred.

In this particular example this is accomplished by discrediting an historic event.

edit - some figures:

The exact number of people killed by the Nazi regime is still subject to further research. Recently declassified British and Soviet documents have indicated the total may be somewhat higher than previously believed. However, the following estimates are considered to be highly reliable.
5.6-6.1 million Jews
3.5-6 million Slavic civilians
2.5-4 million POWs
1-1.5 million political dissidents
200 000-800 000 Roma & Sinti
200 000-300 000 handicapped
10 000-250 000 homosexuals
2 000 Jehovah's Witnesses

link (http://www.world-war-2.info/holocaust/)

M*W: I have not only read extensively about the destruction of the European Jews, I have seen first hand the concentration camps (also known as "work centers" of Dachau, Thereisenstadt, Mauthausen, and Mainz-Kastel. There is no way that these dens of horror were fake. I walked from one end of Dachau to the other, crying the whole way. I've stood where so many died in the "showers," and I could sense the last hopeful thoughts of mothers and children. I've stood in the "bunks" and touched the cold hard wooden overcrowded sleeping quarters. I saw the crematoria. The smell of burning flesh was still in the air.

Dachau was built right in the middle of a residential area near Munich. However, the civilians on the outside never acknowledged what went on on the inside. They thought it was a work camp for displaced persons during the war. The Germans are STILL in denial that the Holocaust ever happened. It removes the "guilt" from their souls.

Mauthausen was a place of heinous medical interment where they performed such experiments as filling a woman's uterus with cement to see how far they could stretch it before it burst. No one came out alive from these "experiments." Mauthausen was one of the camps where they tried genetic engineering to create the Aryan race. Today it is simply a kindergarten in a rural area with pretty flowers in the windows and children playing unaware.

Mainz-Kastel was a work camp, not too far from where I lived and just across the Rhein. Although labeled a "work camp," it had its usual floor plan and infamous smoke stack. Guard posts were at every corner. The floor plans of the concentration camps were for the most part identical depending on the area. Dachau was one of the bigger ones. Mauthausen was quite small for the experimentation going on. Mainz-Kastel was somewhere in between. Today, it is owned by the US Army who have turned it into a post exchange. The crematorium is now a toy store.

Near the town of Marburg, I don't recall the name of the place, they did experiments on human fat. Traveling through this town, the air had a strong odor of Johnson's Baby Shampoo. When I studied about Holocaust, I learned that this particular place is where they cut out chunks of human fat to make soap and shampoo.

In Southern Bavaria, there is a town by the name of Haar. It's local industry was mattress making. This is where they shaved the Jew's hair to stuff mattresses with it. Haar means "hair" auf Deutsche.

I lived in Germany when the film The Holocaust aired. To the arrogant German, The Holocaust was deemed a lie perpetuated by the Americans. Even today, they don't admit the Holocaust ever happened. When that film aired, certain people recognized their relatives from the file footage--not the Jews but the SS. Some believed it was a lie, but some didn't. For those very few folks who believed the Holocaust did actually happen, it was devastating to learn the truth about members of their own family. Everything that was wrong with Germany, Americans got the blame. The first year I lived in Wiesbaden, I got spit on three times by older folks on the street. Then by the time I left Germany, I had become one of them but only outwardly. I dressed like them. I spoke like them. I lived among them, but I learned the truth about them. They are a country in denial still refusing to take responsibility for their war crimes.

When I see what our American soldiers have done taking photographs while abusing Iraqi prisoners," I find it to be un-American and very stupid, but there is NO comparison with that to what the Germans did to the Jews.

Most Germans say the Holocaust didn't happen. That's what they teach their children in school. They teach their children that everything that is wrong with their country is the fault of the Americans. (How many times did we save their asses in wars?) We occupy their country, they say, because they "are having to take care of the lazy Americans!"

So, for those of you who don't believe the Holocaust ever happened, I am sorry for your ignorance. Unless you've been there, you simply don't understand that it's the truth. It did happen. I've been there. I've seen what was left of this terrorism. I've sensed death. Thank God the Americans finally ended this tragedy and saved those they could. Thank God the Americans freed the Iraqis from their terrorist, Sadaam Hussein and his henchmen.

On the gates of the concentration camps are the words "Arbeit macht frei." "Work makes you free." That good old German "work ethic" still rings true. I've been there. Have you?

Thank you for your post medicine woman. I really feel that this is a subject that insensitive comments should stay away from.

Well said, Medicine Woman.

The holocaust did indeed happen, but it is not a Jewish tragedy but a global one for many. The Rroma (sinti) were almost completely wiped out as well. Hundreds of thousands of homosexuals, handicapped, political activists and mental patients also died at the hands of the Nazi regime. There were gross inhumanities commit against all people, and not just the Jewish. The Holocaust has long been seen as a Jewish suffering, and that's where people have a problem with it, and rightfully so. It affected all people in Europe, and the soliders who fought to free them.

I think what PM is very unelequently trying to state is that Jewish people carry the banner of the Holocaust as if they were the only ones affected, when it is simply not the case and it does dishonor others when the museums and history books only reflect the Jewish plight in WW2.

MW, thank you. So many people who've visited the camps say that you can still smell what happened there. In some camps that had lakes, the water is still gray because so much ash had fallen in them from the ovens that the water is still stained with the ash of the dead from the war. When I saw the photo of one such lake, I felt like crying. My friend who went there told me that the smell of the ash is almost sweet and sickening and that she found that the smell stayed in her nose for hours afterwards. I can't understand how anyone could deem such suffering and the amount of people who'd endured it to be a hoax. I find it reprehensible that anyone could dishonour what those people went through. My uncle's wife survived the camps, while her whole family perished. She still suffers from the effects of the pain she went through. She is in and out of hospital because of the beatings she'd endured during those years. Her kidneys suffered terribly from it and she's been in constant pain ever since the war ended. I think of her when I see the comments of the holocaust being a hoax and I can't help but feel repulsed by the dishonour that the victims of the war are still suffering from suh comments.

M*W: Thank you for your polite comment. I'm a passionate person whether I'm for you or against you! I'm not as "insensitive" as the members of this forum may think. I believe I have a duty toward humanity to impart my passion to others who may be more superficial in thought.

DoctorNO:

Yeah, but their motives have to be righteous. Are you such a Transformer? I'm sorry. ANyway. Yeah, there was a Holocaust

Opening Address for the United States by Robert Jackson

The conspiracy or common plan to exterminate the Jew was so methodically and thoroughly pursued that despite the German defeat and Nazi prostration, this Nazi aim largely has succeeded. Only remnants of the European Jewish population remain in Germany, in the countries which Germany occupied, and in those which were her satellites or collaborators. Of the 9,600,000 Jews who lived in Nazi dominated Europe, 60 percent are authoritatively estimated to have perished. 5,700,000 Jews are missing from the countries in which they formerly lived, and over 4,500,000 cannot be accounted for by the normal death rate nor by immigration; nor are they included among displaced persons. History does not record a crime ever perpetrated against so many victims or one ever carried out with such calculated cruelty. [Page 136]

- see Nuremberg Trials (http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/people/DocJac06.htm)

These Holocaust Demographics (http://www.arts.monash.edu.au/affiliates/hlc/holocaust/statistics/losses.html) sugest a death toll between 5.6 and 5.8 Million.

These Statistics on the Holocaust (http://faculty.ucc.edu/egh-damerow/Statistics.htm) suggest a death toll of 5.8 Million.

Proud_Muslim is little more than rabid, antisemitic scum. Those like DoctorNO, who play with the topic for their own amusement, and who could care less about the reality underlying such crimes, are not much better.

Those like DoctorNO, who play with the topic for their own amusement, and who could care less about the reality underlying such crimes, are not much better.

Play with the topic??? How on Earth did you get that idea? I only wanted to get everyone's opinion because ever since 9/11 this ridiculous conspiracy theory had been blown out of proportion. PM ignited this issue here in sciforums so I wanted to settle it in a dedicated thread. :bugeye:

Well said, Medicine Woman.

The holocaust did indeed happen, but it is not a Jewish tragedy but a global one for many. The Rroma (sinti) were almost completely wiped out as well. Hundreds of thousands of homosexuals, handicapped, political activists and mental patients also died at the hands of the Nazi regime. There were gross inhumanities commit against all people, and not just the Jewish. The Holocaust has long been seen as a Jewish suffering, and that's where people have a problem with it, and rightfully so. It affected all people in Europe, and the soliders who fought to free them.

I think what PM is very unelequently trying to state is that Jewish people carry the banner of the Holocaust as if they were the only ones affected, when it is simply not the case and it does dishonor others when the museums and history books only reflect the Jewish plight in WW2.
*************
M*W: You are right, Ard, I knew about the mentally retarded, the Roms, homosexuals and others, including some Catholic priests and nuns. It was a tragedy not just to the Jews but to all humanity--anyone NOT Aryan was endangered. The Dutch Jews were the most heinously targeted because they made the majority of their wealth in the spice industry. Hitler especially hated the wealthier Jews, but Nazism didn't discriminate between the two.

We must not forget the Inquisition either, where 9 million women died at the hands of Christians.

Yeah, but their motives have to be righteous. Are you such a Transformer? I'm sorry. ANyway. Yeah, there was a Holocaust

SHIT, do you also think Im denying the holocaust??? Is that why you think I couldnt earn my symbol?

For the first time in sciforums, I'm upset.

For the first time in sciforums, I'm upset.
Ermmm I don't think anyone has accused you of denying the holocaust NO.
:confused:

No, didn't. I was kidding about the symbol because I was groggy, and it amused me at the moment. It was an unrelated comment. Sorry I was so far off-topic.

If that map is anywhere near accurate then the holocaust at best is an exaggeration.

Indeed, the holocaust is an exaggeration, no one dispute the fact that Jews AS WELL as non jews were killed by the nazis but the 6 million figure is A LIE.

If one person dies unjustly at the hands of another it is a terrible thing. I think to argue about numbers is crass and i dont understand what is to be gained from the discussion. If someone can set me straight fair enough.

I totally understand your point, we are debating the Jewish myth of the 6 million jewish dead ! it is a lie.

Without doing any math whatsoever, simply on the basis of a cursory examination, I can tell you that the totals are *well* over six million.

Repeating a previous question, DID you ever go to school?

Dont forget these are ESTIMATED figures !! so even if the add up is little over 6 million, the 6 million figure still is a lie otherwise how do you explain the mass immigration of Jews to Palestine after the WW2 ? :rolleyes:

You guys are breast feed the holocaust bullshit since an early stage, the jews make the topic ' untouchable' and ' beyond even questioning ' ! pathetic.

The holocaust did indeed happen, but it is not a Jewish tragedy but a global one for many. The Rroma (sinti) were almost completely wiped out as well. Hundreds of thousands of homosexuals, handicapped, political activists and mental patients also died at the hands of the Nazi regime. There were gross inhumanities commit against all people, and not just the Jewish.

So the question is : WHY THERE IS NO MEMORIAL MUSEUMS FOR NON JEWISH VICTIMS OF THE HOLOCAUST ?????? :bugeye:

The Holocaust has long been seen as a Jewish suffering, and that's where people have a problem with it, and rightfully so. It affected all people in Europe, and the soliders who fought to free them.

Very well said, the holocaust also helped created the terrorist state of ISRAEL, The Europeans dumped their jews on our land in Palestine to get rid of the jewish problem ' humanely ' !

I think what PM is very unelequently trying to state is that Jewish people carry the banner of the Holocaust as if they were the only ones affected, when it is simply not the case and it does dishonor others when the museums and history books only reflect the Jewish plight in WW2.

Well said !! this is what I was trying to say, thank you.

but there is NO comparison with that to what the Germans did to the Jews.

I certainly find a comparison between what the Nazis did to the Jews and what the JEWS are doing now to the Palestineans.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5195060

Proud_Muslim is little more than rabid, antisemitic scum. Those like DoctorNO, who play with the topic for their own amusement, and who could care less about the reality underlying such crimes, are not much better.

How can you call me anti semitic when I am SEMITIC myself ! fool !!

ANTI SEMITIC USED TO MEAN ANYONE WHO HATE THE JEWS, NOW, IT MEANS ANYONE WHO THE JEWS HATE.

You are the scum for promoting lies and making people believing them.

Shame on you.

1. PM, can't you make one post?

2. You claim it is a lie. Statistics based on historic documents show that 5-6 million exterminated Jews is a reality:

The exact number of people killed by the Nazi regime is still subject to further research. Recently declassified British and Soviet documents have indicated the total may be somewhat higher than previously believed. However, the following estimates are considered to be highly reliable.
5.6-6.1 million Jews
3.5-6 million Slavic civilians
2.5-4 million POWs
1-1.5 million political dissidents
200 000-800 000 Roma & Sinti
200 000-300 000 handicapped
10 000-250 000 homosexuals
2 000 Jehovah's Witnesses

link (http://www.world-war-2.info/holocaust/)

I somehow fail to see why a holocaust stops to be a holocaust because more than the jews were targeted for extermination.

Some quote from the same link since apparently you don't follow other people links:

The word 'Holocaust', from the Greek word 'holokauston' meaning "a burnt sacrifice offered to God", originally referred to a sacrifice Jews were required to make by the Torah, and later to large scale catastrophes or massacres. Due to the theological meaning that this word carries, many Jews find the use of this word problematic, as it could imply that Jews were a sacrifice. Instead of holocaust many Jews prefer the Hebrew word Shoah, which means "desolation".

n some circles, the term holocaust is used to describe the systematic murder of the other groups which were exterminated in the same circumstances by the Nazis, including ethnic Roma and Sinti (also known as Gypsies), political dissidents, communists, homosexuals, mental patients, Jehovah's Witnesses, Russians, Poles, and other Slavs, raising the total number of victims of Nazis to between ten and fourteen million civilians, and up to 4 million POWs.

t is nonetheless recognized that most people who use the term Holocaust do not intend such a meaning. Similarly, many Roma (Gypsy) people use the word Porajmos, meaning "Devouring" to describe the Nazi attempt to exterminate that group.

Proud_Muslim has deliberately and consistently distorted the facts in his posts, where he has bothered to give any information at all to back up his argument. Mostly, he has simply been spewing hate.

See consequentatheist's posts for some more reliable statistics.

DoctorNo, I advise you to think more carefully before you post something which makes you look like a denier of history.

Since this discussion has nothing to do with Religion, I am closing the thread.

As a moderator, I am supposed to remain above the fray to some extent. However, in this instance, I would like to say that I find holocaust denial a particularly distasteful form of bigotry.

Proud_Muslim: you may take this as a warning. Further unsupported threads or posts on this topic may result in your temporary or permanent banning.