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M*W: I welcome comments from everyone. Christians, however, before you give your prerecorded answer, please read the following:

Although it is commonly believed that Jesus lived during the first century AD, there is no concrete evidence to support this fact from Roman and Jewish historians who would have been his contemporaries. The Gospel writers themselves were of a later generation, and many accounts recorded in the Old Testament and Talmudic commentary refer to the coming of the Messiah as an event that had already occurred.

Evidence from archaeology, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Koran, the Talmud, and biblical sources, make a compelling case that both Jesus and Joshua were one and the same, a belief echoed by the early Church Fathers, and that this person was also the pharaoh Tutankhamun who ruled Egypt between 1361 and 1352 BC. The Essene Christians only came into the open following the execution of their prophet John the Baptist by Herod many centuries later. Yet it was also the Essenes who, following the death of Tutankhamun and his father Akhenaten (Moses), secretly kept the monotheistic religion of Egypt alive.

(Excerpt taken from the cover of the book Jesus in the House of the Pharaohs: The Essene Revelations on the Historical Jesus, by Ahmed Osman).

With that said, King Tut was also called by Pliny the "eldest son of the Aten (the Sun) in heaven."

One of the charges against the historical Jesus was his claim to be "the Son of Ra," an Egyptian rather than Israelite deity. (The ancient Israelites were moon-worshippers). This title was discovered on the stele in the Karnak Temple of King Tut. According to Ahmed Osman in Jesus in the House of the Pharaohs, this finding sheds light on the views expressed by Talmudic rabbis who regarded Jesus, the son of Mary, as also being the son of a man named Pandira. Some scholars suggest that Pandira could have been a Roman soldier who had a love affair with Mary. Interestingly, Pandira is not an Hebrew word but a form of an Hebrew word which is an ancient Egyptian royal epithet. The word in Hebrew is Pa-ndi-ra. In Egyptian this becomes Pa-ntr-ra which means Pa-neter-ra, the god Ra. "Son of Ra" was an Egyptian title used by all pharaohs.

I'm still not convinced that Jesus existed as a christian, a Jew or an Egyptian pharaoh.

I welcome all comments, especially any information on Pandira.

Meh. I think there were a lot of people named Jesus in and around the 1st century CE. It was a common name.
The Jesus in the NT is probably based on several of these guys, campaigners for Judaean independence, nationalists if you will. One stood out and formed the core, but in all likelihood, the one in the christian book is an amalgam of these philosophers, a character exaggerated to make a point.

lol, at least Yeshua passed from being "the Sun", to an Egyptian Pharaoh. You are getting closer M*W, at least now he has a "human quality".

lol, at least Yeshua passed from being "the Sun", to an Egyptian Pharaoh. You are getting closer M*W, at least now he has a "human quality".
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M*W: No, I'm not getting closer to believing in the "human qualities" of a god, because that, too, is still a myth.

... Although it is commonly believed that Jesus lived during the first century AD, there is no concrete evidence to support this fact....

What, exactly, would you consider as "concrete evidence"?

You mentioned contemporary "historians", but we all know that histories are subject to biases of all kinds, in all ages .....so surely you wouldn't consider that as "concrete evidence", would you? So again, what do you consider as "concrete evidence"?

Baron Max

It's no wonder almost no historians agree with M*W, she'll stretch out anything to make it seem like Jesus was a myth...

M*W:
You would do better trying to link Jesus to Apollonius of Tyana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_of_Tyana), he was more contemporary of Jesus, and he performed miracles, healed the sick, resurected the dead, etc.

The life of Apollonius (http://www.livius.org/ap-ark/apollonius/apollonius01.html).

Not to mention that the picture looks just the same, I think Christians may have depicted Apollonius (Greek, white skin) and not Jesus (Hebrew, probably dark skin).

What, exactly, would you consider as "concrete evidence"?

You mentioned contemporary "historians", but we all know that histories are subject to biases of all kinds, in all ages .....so surely you wouldn't consider that as "concrete evidence", would you? So again, what do you consider as "concrete evidence"?

Baron Max
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M*W: I consider "concrete evidence" to be official records (birth, death, baptismal certificates); credible eye-witness reports (of which there are none (keeping in mind that those who claimed to have written books of the bible never laid eyes on a Jesus); a legitimate genealogy (the genealogies in the NT are conflicting); an official Roman record of his crucifixion; anything written by Jesus himself... you get the idea.

wow, that kinda means a lot of my ancestors didn't exist.

It's no wonder almost no historians agree with M*W, she'll stretch out anything to make it seem like Jesus was a myth...
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M*W: I had no idea that historians were even discussing what I've written! However, I don't deserve all the credit for making Jesus into a myth, but I'm honored that you think so!

M*W: You would do better trying to link Jesus to Apollonius of Tyana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_of_Tyana), he was more contemporary of Jesus, and he performed miracles, healed the sick, resurected the dead, etc.

The life of Apollonius (http://www.livius.org/ap-ark/apollonius/apollonius01.html).

Not to mention that the picture looks just the same, I think Christians may have depicted Apollonius (Greek, white skin) and not Jesus (Hebrew, probably dark skin).
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M*W: Actually, I have already done that a couple of years ago on this forum, although I compared him to Paul not Jesus.

You should read again, it is like a parallel of Jesus, Paul did none of the things these folks did. Yeshua, Apollonius and Pytagoras were of the same type of dudes, enlightened dudes.

Evidence from archaeology, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Koran, the Talmud, and biblical sources, make a compelling case that both Jesus and Joshua were one and the same, ...
What evidence?

What evidence?
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M*W: Don't do much reading, do you?

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M*W: Don't do much reading, do you?

I too was wondering if you could actually provide it... (If you reffer to the Greek translation "Yeshua", then I rest my case, ´cause that in no way could be considered "proof").

M*W: Don't do much reading, do you?

So, ...if someone writes something in a book, you consider it concrete evidence????

Baron Max

So, ...if someone writes something in a book, you consider it concrete evidence????

Baron Max

Bible thumpers do it all the time!:D

Well, I can't speak for Medicine Woman but I get the impression she does like to check other sources to compare one to another to see how strong the commanality between them is.
This is what I like to do. Seems more logical than just relying on one source.

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M*W: I consider "concrete evidence" to be official records (birth, death, baptismal certificates); credible eye-witness reports (of which there are none (keeping in mind that those who claimed to have written books of the bible never laid eyes on a Jesus); a legitimate genealogy (the genealogies in the NT are conflicting); an official Roman record of his crucifixion; anything written by Jesus himself... you get the idea.

You are correct, all things that were written about him were written close to 100 years after he died.

I still believe that Jesus was alive but not a son of God but a genius at doing things just like DaVinci was during his time.

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M*W: Don't do much reading, do you?Actually, M*W, I do. Is there some reason you chose ad hominem instead of answering what seems to me to be a very reasonable question?

You wrote ..."Evidence from archaeology, the Dead Sea Scrolls, ..., make a compelling case that both Jesus and Joshua were one and the same, ..." so, again, what evidence?

Actually, M*W, I do. Is there some reason you chose ad hominem instead of answering what seems to me to be a very reasonable question?

You wrote ..."Evidence from archaeology, the Dead Sea Scrolls, ..., make a compelling case that both Jesus and Joshua were one and the same, ..." so, again, what evidence?



Do you believe everything that you read? One person writes about someone therefore it MUST be true. Any other papers ever been found written by a multitude of people stating thses things, I think not.

Do you believe everything that you read? One person writes about someone therefore it MUST be true.Where did I indicate that I believed M*W's claim?
Where did I suggest that "it MUST be true"?

Stop embarrassing yourself. :rolleyes:

:p:bawl: my bad.

both Jesus and Joshua were one and the same,

I dunno about Joshua, but Joseph and Jesus are the same because:

Both had a miraculous birth.
Joseph had 12 brothers, and Jesus had 12 disciples.
Joseph was sold for 20 pieces of silver, Jesus was sold for 30.
Judah suggested the sale of Joseph, Judas, suggested the sale of Jesus.
Both began their life's work at the age of thirty.

This savior story exists in so many myths, but it's interesting to find two of them in one book.

I dunno about Joshua, but Joseph and Jesus are the same because:

Both had a miraculous birth.
Joseph had 12 brothers, and Jesus had 12 disciples.
Joseph was sold for 20 pieces of silver, Jesus was sold for 30.
Judah suggested the sale of Joseph, Judas, suggested the sale of Jesus.
Both began their life's work at the age of thirty.

And who was writing about all this?

And who was writing about all this?

I don't know, but what does it matter?

I dunno about Joshua, but Joseph and Jesus are the same because: ... Joseph had 12 brothers, and Jesus had 12 disciples.

This savior story exists in so many myths, but it's interesting to find two of them in one book.Interesting. We have ...
Asher
Benjamin
Dan
Gad
Issachar
Judah
Levi
Naphtali
Reuben
Simeon
Zebulun
??????????I think there may be a problem here ...

I don't know, but what does it matter?

We read so much about someone that was really unknown to everyone for many years. why write about Jesus when he wasn't doing anything and who was taking notes about what was happening to him all of the time?

You are correct, all things that were written about him were written close to 100 years after he died.

I still believe that Jesus was alive but not a son of God but a genius at doing things just like DaVinci was during his time.

I'm curious, what do you believe were the genius qualities of Jesus?

Was Jesus a Pharaoh?
No.
There is absolutely no evidence to even suggest such.
You are letting yourself run away with your imagination again.
Step away from the Dan Brown and Acharya S. and no one will get hurt. :D

Pick up Foucault's Pendulum, instead.
You will thank me.

Evidence from archaeology, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Koran, the Talmud, and biblical sources, make a compelling case that both Jesus and Joshua were one and the same, a belief echoed by the early Church Fathers, and that this person was also the pharaoh Tutankhamun who ruled Egypt between 1361 and 1352 BC.
I'd like to know what the evidence is that makes this "compelling case" as well.

I'm curious, what do you believe were the genius qualities of Jesus?

I was thinking along the lines of feeding the multitudes by introducing new forms of crop fertilizer or growing techniques. Some of the " miracles" he performed that we are told about could have been just ways to help people in ways they never had thought of before. He could have just stood out as a man who did much to help everyone with new discoveries to help all.

why write about Jesus when he wasn't doing anything and who was taking notes about what was happening to him all of the time?

the story of jesus is a recreation of an ancient savior story. horus, attis, krishna, dionysus, mithra. the story of the savior is the story of the sun which moves through the twelve constellations and saves us from darkness. the sun is the physical version of the spiritual savior within us who defeats the darkness, ignorance.

the story of jesus is a recreation of an ancient savior story. horus, attis, krishna, dionysus, mithra. the story of the savior is the story of the sun which moves through the twelve constellations and saves us from darkness. the sun is the physical version of the spiritual savior within us who defeats the darkness, ignorance.


That is true but I'd still think that he could have just been a real human trying to do what he could but was taken for something he was not.