This is for the community to discuss their views on war and its effects. For example: Its bad since it can result in the annihilation of the species, deaths of millions, and can leave millions homeless. But on the other hand, it nearly quadruples the rate at which technollogy advances, helps control over-population of the planet, can establish trading partners and give millions jobs and can improve the life of just as many people. I guess it depends on your point of view, but its kind of hard to discern whether or not it helps mankind as a whole, or weakens us.

War is greatest progress inducer

War takes away lifes

War teaches humans value of life

War creates chaos

This is for the community to discuss their views on war and its effects. For example: Its bad since it can result in the annihilation of the species, deaths of millions, and can leave millions homeless. But on the other hand, it nearly quadruples the rate at which technollogy advances, helps control over-population of the planet, can establish trading partners and give millions jobs and can improve the life of just as many people. I guess it depends on your point of view, but its kind of hard to discern whether or not it helps mankind as a whole, or weakens us.
yeah it all depends on which side are YOU on,the one doing the killing or the one being killed!! ;)
wars are totaly unecesary imo unfortunately our Leaders are still too unevolved to even try a better way to keep the economy going.

it'll probably take another thousand years or so before Americans become as intelligent as Europeans,who had hundreds of years of wars and now know better.then to repeat more of the same

Bad.

War is mostly good

yeah it all depends on which side are YOU on,the one doing the killing or the one being killed!! ;)
Um, that sort of thing doesn't generally go by which "side" you're on.
I believe that, on occasion, some of the "good guys" get killed and some of the "bad guys" do the killing.
Pretty much random.

A common theme that has emerged in critiques of my "Wartime Economist" columns on Antiwar.com is that war is good for an economy. One respondent wrote:

"Why did [Franklin D.] Roosevelt want the war [World War II] so badly? He wanted it for the same reason every American president since that time has wanted a war, and that is to prevent the US economy from slipping deeper and deeper into economic depression. Counting the Cold War, the United States has been in a continual state of war for the past 60 years, and there is no end in sight. Without war, I do not believe our economy can survive."

The people who write me to this effect seem to hate that "fact." They would prefer that war not be a plus for an economy – but, nevertheless, they think it is. This belief has led many of these people to feel hopeless because they think that, on top of all the other difficulties of opposing war, they are opposing something that makes Americans better off. If I thought that, I would feel hopeless too. Fortunately, it's not true. The actual fact is that any war, even a war that is justified, has substantial costs.

Imagine an economy whose government spends 2 percent of its GDP on its military. (On average, the world's governments spend just under 2 percent of their countries' GDP on the military, and the U.S. government spends about 4 percent.) Then, imagine that the government suddenly gets into a war and raises military spending to 7 percent of national income. How does that affect people in that country?

More.........

http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/clickit/search?r_aid=950CDBB874384FCD8DC6FDB6B96BE680&r_eop=9&r_sacop=5&r_spf=0&r_cop=main-title&r_snpp=3&r_spp=2&r_wsm=0&qqn=HuWw!Xdf&r_coid=239138&rawto=http://www.antiwar.com/henderson/?articleid=8662

This is for the community to discuss their views on war and its effects. For example: Its bad since it can result in the annihilation of the species, deaths of millions, and can leave millions homeless. But on the other hand, it nearly quadruples the rate at which technollogy advances, helps control over-population of the planet, can establish trading partners and give millions jobs and can improve the life of just as many people. I guess it depends on your point of view, but its kind of hard to discern whether or not it helps mankind as a whole, or weakens us.Well, look at it this way: should humanity continue to progress as a mule chasing a carrot dangling from a stick?

Yes, but the technollogy that is developed can help billions. Look at the atomic bomb. It was designed as the most powerful weapon on Earth. Now its the most efficent and reliable form of power in the world. Or jets, again designed as a weapon of war. They now transport millions each day. In other words, you kill millions to help billions.

War is mostly good

from an economic point of view YES...from a human point of view NO...

Yes, but the technollogy that is developed can help billions. Look at the atomic bomb. It was designed as the most powerful weapon on Earth. Now its the most efficent and reliable form of power in the world. Or jets, again designed as a weapon of war. They now transport millions each day. In other words, you kill millions to help billions.

The space program has had similar unintended benefits for technological development, while not requiring the routine dismemberment and slaughter of war. War is great for the corporations that supply the military. Not so great for the countless numbers that are maimed or killed, or who survive only to be crippled by PTSD, and/or return to lives disrupted by their long absence, wives who have divorced them, children who grew up without them, jobs that they have lost, or at least promotions that have gone to others instead of them....

That we humans still resort to mass slaughter to settle our differences so readily is one of the qualities that makes it difficult for me to understand the inflated opinion that so many still have about our species. If we were created in God's image, that god is a petty vindictive bastard, utterly unworthy of worship.

war is never good. never ever.....unless it against cockroaches.

War is mostly Good, it brings change ... life exists for change.

Yes, but the technollogy that is developed can help billions. Look at the atomic bomb. It was designed as the most powerful weapon on Earth. Now its the most efficent and reliable form of power in the world. Or jets, again designed as a weapon of war. They now transport millions each day. In other words, you kill millions to help billions.

The whole problem with this argument is that you could do the same without killing anyone. Yes, spending money helps improve technology and may better lives. So what? The gov't spent money on the space program in the 60s and in fact funds all kinds of research in all kinds of fields. You have to be pretty delusional to assume that war is necessary for expenditure.

The whole problem with this argument is that you could do the same without killing anyone. Yes, spending money helps improve technology and may better lives. So what? The gov't spent money on the space program in the 60s and in fact funds all kinds of research in all kinds of fields. You have to be pretty delusional to assume that war is necessary for expenditure.

people are not machines...without force (WAR) they would not change as needed.

War is mostly Good, it brings change ... life exists for change.

Yeah check out these ladies rejoicing over the fact that their sons have changed from alive to dead

http://www.marxist.com/images/russian_losses.jpg

:rolleyes:

Yeah check out these ladies rejoicing over the fact that their sons have changed from alive to dead

http://www.marxist.com/images/russian_losses.jpg

:rolleyes:

victims of War are those who could not adapt.

victims of War are those who could not adapt.

You are a frikkin' moron.

You are a frikkin' moron.

perhaps

perhaps

No doubt about it.

It's grrreeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttttttttttttt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are a frikkin' moron.

I concur.

And I would also point out that force need not be military. Economic forces cause people to change every day.

War is greatest progress inducer

War takes away lifes

War teaches humans value of life

War creates chaos

You remind me of Mao.

You remind me of Mao.

the greater leader of China?

I am nothing.

the greater leader of China?

I am nothing.

yeah, the 'great leader' of china, who led millions of people die because he desired to have a weapons industry for which he paid with with food.

this great leader who send hundreds of thousands of troops to their death in Korea. First of course the regiments who used to serve with the nationalists. War of attrition.

The same one who sacrificed thousands of his own men during his ascent because he wanted to delay going somewhere because a delay would mean keeping a chance for power.

the same one who drove his wife mad. didn't care about his children. or his other wives.

the same one who started the korean war in the hope the US would tie all its troop there so stalin could invade Europe.

the same one that wanted nukes so it could nuke the US because he was convinced that he could win the war of nuclear attrition. fortunately he never got ICBMs in his lifetime.

The same weapons industry that he bought with food (for which millions starved) produced weapons that could not be used. He send airplanes to his allies with the message. Please do not try to fly them.

the man murdered 70 million of its own people. He destroyed chinese culture. he destroyed hundreds of millions of lives.

China is in space now...isn't it?

No, I think its still attached to East Asia, let me just check google earth.

Is war good or bad? Well, golly, it's good for some, it's bad for others.

I don't know that one could ever come to a worldwide consensus on it, do y'all?

Combat is the best high you'll ever know or experience ...bar none!

Baron Max

Yeah war is awesome.. :rolleyes:
http://www.blackshamrock.org/attachments/aug2006/cluster_bombs_victim.jpg

Whoa, thread killer.

War is generally a bad thing, but violence can be used for good, and sometimes it is essential to wage war

victims of War are those who could not adapt.

Well that used to be in primitive times .. but not since bombs were invented and anyone could be targeted... It is not because you survived a war, Dragon, that you were adapted better, maybe you were just lucky you weren't there when the bomb hit your house...

Well that used to be in primitive times .. but not since bombs were invented and anyone could be targeted... It is not because you survived a war, Dragon, that you were adapted better, maybe you were just lucky you weren't there when the bomb hit your house...

indirect social adaptation...everything counts.

indirect social adaptation...everything counts.

that doesnt make any sense

that doesnt make any sense

i am saying adaptation is not something as primitive as wearing clothes and using tools to survive. Adaptation now for humans lies in the use of intelligence on highest level of future prediction, probability count of survival under conditions, and etc.

Survival of the fittest means adapting to environment. Surviving War not just because I/he/we were lucky...but because we knew the right people...because we had the right information....because we had the technology to defend ourselves.

i am saying adaptation is not something as primitive as wearing clothes and using tools to survive. Adaptation now for humans lies in the use of intelligence on highest level of future prediction, probability count of survival under conditions, and etc.

Survival of the fittest means adapting to environment. Surviving War not just because I/he/we were lucky...but because we knew the right people...because we had the right information....because we had the technology to defend ourselves.

I doubt you'd be able to predetermine where a bomb would drop better than the military, or at all.

Yes, but the technollogy that is developed can help billions. Look at the atomic bomb. It was designed as the most powerful weapon on Earth. Now its the most efficent and reliable form of power in the world. Or jets, again designed as a weapon of war. They now transport millions each day. In other words, you kill millions to help billions.

It seems to me that if you invested the same amount of money that would have been spend on war in scientific research, you'd get an even greater return. War was a great boon to technology because it prompted people to spend government money on research...but war isn't required for that to happen. We could spend the same amounts right now. We don't because we want other things in addition to scientific research. In 50 years, our grandkids will look back and wish we'd invested more in it...but screw them, I want my enjoyment now.

War has also been viewed as good here in the U.S. because our cities weren't flattened by it. If the war came to us, I don't think there's be any question but that it was a bad thing, jet engines or no jet engines.

i am saying adaptation is not something as primitive as wearing clothes and using tools to survive. Adaptation now for humans lies in the use of intelligence on highest level of future prediction, probability count of survival under conditions, and etc.

Survival of the fittest means adapting to environment. Surviving War not just because I/he/we were lucky...but because we knew the right people...because we had the right information....because we had the technology to defend ourselves.

It is an illusion that you can control every signle thing in a war...maybe you indeed knew the right person...but a lot of other people knew that guy too and never got to the border...not because they were stupid but because they were unlucky.

It is an illusion that you can control every signle thing in a war...maybe you indeed knew the right person...but a lot of other people knew that guy too and never got to the border...not because they were stupid but because they were unlucky.

because they did not have enough power of will.

because they did not have enough power of will.

What!? How does will power affect how information is passed to you, if you buy a lotto ticket and dont win it doesnt mean that you didnt have enough will to win, it just means that you didnt get picked.

War is very very bad. Nonetheless, it can achieve great things (but not for the dead lying on the battlefield).

War is very very bad. Nonetheless, it can achieve great things (but not for the dead lying on the battlefield).

Yes it can, but you cant just start a war and expect to achieve something great by starting it.

What!? How does will power affect how information is passed to you, if you buy a lotto ticket and dont win it doesnt mean that you didnt have enough will to win, it just means that you didnt get picked.

a person would not be doing the lotto tickets with a strong power of will. A strong person ( a person with power of will) will find a purpose in life is to learn and educate and use that information.

Power of will to do anything, to resist temptations, to follow a goal, the hardest goal there is. To prove this everyday.

Why not? Julius Caesar knew he was starting a war by crossing the Rubican - and it did turn into a great thing - the Roman Empire.

Why not? Julius Caesar knew he was starting a war by crossing the Rubican - and it did turn into a great thing - the Roman Empire.

war is eventually what led to the fall of the roman empire, because the only way they could fuel their economy was by waging war.

a person would not be doing the lotto tickets with a strong power of will. A strong person ( a person with power of will) will find a purpose in life is to learn and educate and use that information.

Power of will to do anything, to resist temptations, to follow a goal, the hardest goal there is. To prove this everyday.

that doesnt explin how will power can stop a bomb from killing you now does it?

that doesnt explin how will power can stop a bomb from killing you now does it?

it does. A person with truly strong power of will analyzes all perceivable situations...into the future and acts in essence to neutralize a threat against him/her.

it does. A person with truly strong power of will analyzes all perceivable situations...into the future and acts in essence to neutralize a threat against him/her.

People cannot predict the future

it does. A person with truly strong power of will analyzes all perceivable situations...into the future and acts in essence to neutralize a threat against him/her.

Yeah?
So you can calculate the designated impact point, work out exact the deviation from that, remember the CEP and get out of the blast radius while the bomb is falling?
Providing you see it coming of course...

Yeah?
So you can calculate the designated impact point, work out exact the deviation from that, remember the CEP and get out of the blast radius while the bomb is falling?
Providing you see it coming of course...

exactly.

exactly.

your so smart dragon :rolleyes:

Ooops, slight fib there I think.

your so smart dragon :rolleyes:

thanks I can feel that honesty in the words. warm honesty.

it does. A person with truly strong power of will analyzes all perceivable situations...into the future and acts in essence to neutralize a threat against him/her.

I think history proves us that persons with a very powerfull will (to survive) in combination with fighting/conquering have sometimes a very short life: Julius Caesar, Sadam Hussein, Che Guevarra, Vasco Da Gamma, Hitler, Pol Pot, Chaucescu,Napoleon (Mr Stratego himself), Himler (the nr 1 Nazistrategist)....
You seem smart Dragon, but you'll have to accept that our excistence sometimes depends on luck...funny that most people can't deal with it.

ummm a lot of those guys lived into their 60s...their 70s!

ummm a lot of those guys lived into their 60s...their 70s!

Nope for Vasco, Julius, Napoleon, Hitler, Che, ...

Why not? Julius Caesar knew he was starting a war by crossing the Rubican - and it did turn into a great thing - the Roman Empire.

It didn't turn out that great for Julius nor do we know how the Republic might have developed without his intervention--there is no reason to assume that it would not have been a great political and cultural force anyway.

if genocide is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if genocide is bad for the economy, then i'm against it!
if healthcare for all is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if healthcare for all is bad for the economy, then i'm against it!
if enviromental devastation is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if enviromental devastation is bad for the economy, then im against it!
if going to war is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if going to war is bad for the economy, then im against it!
this country's gears can't slow down
at any cost to anyone they must sound
banker's fortunes and power cravings too
to this machine are bound
so this country's gears can't slow down
they keep selling us a rotten deal, and im getting more than sick of it
because the suffering it brings, far outweighs the minor benefits
the death of our health, the death of our dreams, the death of this world that we lease
the death of breathing life back into the long dead corpse we once called "peace"

"If it's good for the economy, I'm for it" Justin Sane

if genocide is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if genocide is bad for the economy, then i'm against it!
if healthcare for all is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if healthcare for all is bad for the economy, then i'm against it!
if enviromental devastation is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if enviromental devastation is bad for the economy, then im against it!
if going to war is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if going to war is bad for the economy, then im against it!
this country's gears can't slow down
at any cost to anyone they must sound
banker's fortunes and power cravings too
to this machine are bound
so this country's gears can't slow down
they keep selling us a rotten deal, and im getting more than sick of it
because the suffering it brings, far outweighs the minor benefits
the death of our health, the death of our dreams, the death of this world that we lease
the death of breathing life back into the long dead corpse we once called "peace"

"If it's good for the economy, I'm for it" Justin Sane

Justin Sane seems to be a imbecile..

Justin Sane seems to be a imbecile..

You seem to miss the sarcasm of the song - or do you think war is a good thing?

You seem to miss the sarcasm of the song - or do you think war is a good thing?

Hey, I'm a literal thinker :p
Nah I apologize, I didn't read the whole thing. Just the first few sentences and the 'end conclusion'.

It's like this enmos
Justin Timberlake = Just Intimberlake

only with the other guys name.

if genocide is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if genocide is bad for the economy, then i'm against it!
if healthcare for all is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if healthcare for all is bad for the economy, then i'm against it!
if enviromental devastation is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if enviromental devastation is bad for the economy, then im against it!
if going to war is good for the economy, then i am for it!
if going to war is bad for the economy, then im against it!
this country's gears can't slow down
at any cost to anyone they must sound
banker's fortunes and power cravings too
to this machine are bound
so this country's gears can't slow down
they keep selling us a rotten deal, and im getting more than sick of it
because the suffering it brings, far outweighs the minor benefits
the death of our health, the death of our dreams, the death of this world that we lease
the death of breathing life back into the long dead corpse we once called "peace"

"If it's good for the economy, I'm for it" Justin Sane

never heard of the guy..who is he?

never heard of the guy..who is he?

The lead singer of the Punk band "Anti-Flag".
It's a song from his solo album.

This is for the community to discuss their views on war and its effects. For example: Its bad since it can result in the annihilation of the species, deaths of millions, and can leave millions homeless. But on the other hand, it nearly quadruples the rate at which technollogy advances, helps control over-population of the planet, can establish trading partners and give millions jobs and can improve the life of just as many people. I guess it depends on your point of view, but its kind of hard to discern whether or not it helps mankind as a whole, or weakens us.

war is unavoidable

of course it is something we would prefer to avoid, but there are many things in this world that disregard our preferences

the best use of a bad bargain was to have guidelines for war - for instance in historical times it was considered bad ettiquette to kill an unarmed opponent (there are recorded histories of cavalry refusing to charge until the artillery had reloaded, or waiting for an opponent to pick up a sword they have dropped)

unfortunately technological advancement has made whole sale slaughter capable for even the most untrained of fighters (in the wild west the 6 shooter was called the "equalizer" - the argument being that any schmo who picks up a gun suddenly becomes a force to be reckoned with ... also feudal japan tried for years to keep gun powder out of the country since one could learn in ten seconds how to kill a samurai with 20 years training behind him) - anyway there are very good reasons why contemporary armies in the world recruit women and children (with the latest light weight weapons of "point and press" they can lay down fire power just as well as any one else)

Where will this eventually lead?

To some all out cataclysmic war that will set us back to some lower level of technological know how

"I don't know what will be used in the next world war, but the 4th will be fought with stones." - einstein

The lead singer of the Punk band "Anti-Flag".
It's a song from his solo album.

all right...should check that out...thanks 4 the info!

War is waiting for the bullet that carries your name...

Of course it's relative and moreso, mixed to some degree within most perspectives involved.

More importantly, it's part of a cycle that as far as I can see probably can't be stopped by any realistic means. It's about divergent value, which given the nature of perspective will always occur. It can certainly decline, and subside for periods of time in particular places... but really has there ever been a day when there wasn't "war" of some kind happening on this planet?

Sometimes war is necessary, so as such it is "good" in that context - as it provides a means to what is percieved as a required end by those who direct it. It's bad for those who suffer from it. It's good for those who benefit from it, blah blah blah.

It's an interesting, terrifying, awe-inspiring, disturbing aspect of human interaction on a group level.

""I don't know what will be used in the next world war, but the 4th will be fought with stones." - einstein"

- in economics, called "correction", no?

It's an interesting, terrifying, awe-inspiring, disturbing aspect of human interaction on a group level.

""I don't know what will be used in the next world war, but the 4th will be fought with stones." - einstein"

- in economics, called "correction", no?
interesting that the prime mover of war machines is the pursuit of economic advancement - yet at a certain point it pulls the plug in the economy (winning WW2 was what caused Britain to lose her empire)

interesting that the prime mover of war machines is the pursuit of economic advancement - yet at a certain point it pulls the plug in the economy (winning WW2 was what caused Britain to lose her empire)

yeah but uh... hitler was pushing for economic advancement, not britain, so it'd stand to reason....


and further, it "mixes up" resources, etc. america came out of that one pretty well I think - economically anyway.

I haven't read every post in this thread, but it seems to me that most who've posted have agreed that war is good. Am I right in that, or has someone counted up the pros and cons of the post differently?

And if I am right, it's a very curious thing ...because as I see it, almost everyone here is a liberal doo-gooder and that's not the way they think. So, ....what's going on?

Baron Max

I just wonder where dragon went. "War is mostly good" is most definitely the most unintelligent thing I've ever heard. I'd like to send him off to war so he can test that theory for us.