Wanted: a Muslim Reformation
National Post (Canada)
Sept 26, 2003

No religion has a monopoly on violence. Christianity has the Spanish Inquisition and the bloody excesses of the Crusades...."
But it will Not do to take the Politically Correct course and Lump all Religions in the Same basket, at least not insofar as our own era is concerned. Christian civilization underwent a Reformation in the 16th century, embraced the Enlightenment with its intellectual and theological pluralism, separated Church from State and encouraged scholarship and democracy. Judaism has followed a similar process -- as have, more recently, the faiths of the far East. Islam, on the other hand, is still struggling with this transition. And if there is to be peace in the Middle East and an end to terror worldwide, Muslims must accept that their faith is overdue for a doctrinal overhaul...."


"....Christianity still has its fanatical, bigoted elements. But those Christians who advocate the slaughter of non-believers make up an almost imperceptibly tiny fraction of the faithful. Much is made of the intolerant pronouncements of high-profile evangelists. A few deranged anti-abortion snipers aside, however, this is just talk. Even terrorists that claim to be part of the Christian world-- such as Spain's Basque extremists and America's Timothy McVeigh-- typically do not operate under any sort of religious aegis.

By contrast, a large minority of the world's one billion Muslims still adhere to militant interpretations of their faith, including the Wahabi sect of Sunni Islam, centred in and spread by Saudi Arabia. These interpretations all embrace as a central tenet the duty of jihad -- which, despite whitewashing efforts in the West, continues to mean what it has meant since the 7th century: the slaughter or forced conversion of non-Muslim "infidels." With few exceptions -- such as old-school Palestinian terrorists who cling to Marxist rhetoric -- Muslim terrorist groups all explicitly take Islam as their inspiration. Osama bin Laden is a Hero to Hundreds of Millions of Muslims, and al-Qaeda continues to receive financing from a wide array of Muslim charities.
Christians kill. Jews kill. Hindus kill. But no other faith group on the planet has embraced random slaughter in anything approaching the manner of radicalized Muslims.

The mainstream Arabic media is shot through with the most extreme sort of Hatred...
"Muslim advocacy organizations in the West, including Canada's own Canadian Islamic Congress, typically reject the claim that there is a problem with contemporary Islam, preferring to lay the world's problems at the feet of Israel and U.S. foreign policy.

Indeed, any Critical Scrutiny of their Religion is decried as "Bigotry"..... But it is evident these commentators are putting pride of faith above Truth.
The celebrations in the Islamic world on Sept. 11, 2001...."

Original link expired, The full article can now be found here:

http://www.jewishtoronto.com/content_display.html?ArticleID=85448

interesting.
Thanks.
I think it debunks the trite and PC "All religions are the same"..
and the equally idiotic "It's Just a few Bad Apples".

But since the OPEC helps keep the dollar afloat , no one is going to invade Saudi Arabia, regardless of how many Wahabi madrassas they open.

http://crackersunited.com/blog/wp-content/bush_kiss.jpg

Wouldnt this require a re-writing of the Hadiths?

Wouldnt this require a re-writing of the Hadiths?

Muslims don't have to rewrite the Hadithes-kind of... they have divided them into "good Hadithes" and "Bad Ones", whatever is Expedient at the Time and place in History.

It goes something like this when they're talking to non-Muslims:

1. "The Koran doesn't really mean that" and refer you to another translation Or...
2. "But if you look at the Hadithes...".. And failing that!....
3. "Oh, but that Hadith You want use in response is not a Good Hadith", The Koran itself says.."

and round it goes... sometimes with the Tafsirs (early Koranic interpretation) thrown in.

Muslims don't have to rewrite the Hadithes-kind of... they have divided them into "good Hadithes" and "Bad Ones", whatever is Expedient at the Time and place in History.

It goes something like this when they're talking to non-Muslims:

1. "The Koran doesn't really mean that" and refer you to another translation Or...
2. "But if you look at the Hadithes...".. And failing that!....
3. "Oh, but that Hadith You want use in response is not a Good Hadith", The Koran itself says.."

and round it goes... sometimes with the Tafsirs (early Koranic interpretation) thrown in.
A scriptural shell game?

A scriptural shell game?
Yes.
They have a problem.
Unlike the vast majority of Christians and Jews. Muslims are stuck with the 'Perfection' of a 1400 year old text and it's 'prophet'.

Manji, 'Denial is scourge of Islam':
http://muslim-refusenik.com/news/theaustralian-05-08-22.html

"..The trouble with Islam today is that Literalism is Mainstream.

Even moderate Muslims take the Koran as the final word of God: unfiltered, unchanged and unchangeable.
This supremacy complex inhibits us from asking hard questions about what happens when faith becomes dogma. Such a path can lead only to a dead end of more violence...""

So in this effort to defend the Undefendable by most/today's standards in regards, Jihad, Judaism & Chrsitianity, Women, Marriage to a 6 yr old, etc; they have to Slide and squirm All over the damn place.

Why do people constantly have to keep referring to 'what God wants' when making decisions.

Are their own views so out of sync with divine revelation that they have to constantly pull themselves back into line with a scriptural quotation?

It might be nice to wish such a thing, it's certainly significant to point it out, but there's no way to make it happen externally.

So you would endorse an invasion of SA ?? :confused:

I would love for their committee on virtue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_the_Propagation_of_Virtue_and_the_Pr evention_of_Vice)or whatever the BS wahabi group that keeps the people under their oppression to be shut down. :bugeye:

I would love for their committee on virtue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_the_Propagation_of_Virtue_and_the_Pr evention_of_Vice)or whatever the BS wahabi group that keeps the people under their oppression to be shut down. :bugeye:

Is this proclaiming, however Marginally, Your 'moderate' credentials on Islam?

You conspicuously did not answer all the Meat' in this string:
The Title post and it's differentiating of Islam from other religions in piety and in Today's world (1)... and my post/Manji, that even Moderate Muslims are Literalists. (2)

Do YOU believe the Koran is literally true? (2b)

You stated your stance on abortion previously (islamic), but are you also like Most Muslims, Literalist, and a Creationist (vs Evolutionist)? (3)

Numbered for easy but Non-evasive Reply.
(Other Muslims welcome to respond with their views as well)

Is this proclaiming, however Marginally, Your 'moderate' credentials on Islam?

You conspicuously did not answer all the Meat' in this string:
The Title post and it's differentiating of Islam from other religions in piety and in Today's world (1)... and my post/Manji, that even Moderate Muslims are Literalists. (2)

Do YOU believe the Koran is literally true? (2b)

You stated your stance on abortion previously (islamic), but are you also like Most Muslims, Literalist, and a Creationist (vs Evolutionist)? (3)

Numbered for easy but Non-evasive Reply.
(Other Muslims welcome to respond with their views as well)

Why? I'm sure you are more aware of my views than I am, I have decided against responding to bigots.

You can assign whatever beliefs you like. its not like you are really interested in anything but demonising anything and everything about the people that Israel occupies.

If you think I know your views better than you do.. it can only be because they ARE straight-down-the-Literalist-Hard-Line Muslim, despite trying to Appear 'liberal'/'friendly' here.
Because you will not and cannot answer the Simplest of questions designed to find out the most basic fact/s.
It's true, if you're a Koranic Literalist, like most Muslims, the other positions all follow and then I would "Know your views" although not "Better than you".

As to "Not responding to bigots".. In fact, you not only respond to me in other strings, you do so obsessively and last-word in Every one! Right up through last night/
Now you "won't respond to bigots"?
You're clearly DUCKING the issues here to hide your true views from the board.



S.A.M.: I would love for their committee on virtue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_the_Propagation_of_Virtue_and_the_Pr evention_of_Vice)or whatever the BS wahabi group that keeps the people under their oppression to be shut down. :bugeye:


abu afak:
Is this proclaiming, however Marginally, Your 'moderate' credentials on Islam?

You conspicuously did not answer all the Meat' in this string:
The Title post and it's differentiating of Islam from other religions in piety and in Today's world (1)... and my post/Manji, that even Moderate Muslims are Literalists. (2)

Do YOU believe the Koran is literally true? (2b)

You stated your stance on abortion previously (islamic), but are you also like Most Muslims, Literalist, and a Creationist (vs Evolutionist)? (3)

Numbered for easy but Non-evasive Reply.
(Other Muslims welcome to respond with their views as well)

Is that an internet tantrum? I recommend you Buffalo Roam and Michael for appropriate large fonts and persuasive colors. :D

Is that an internet tantrum? I recommend you Buffalo Roam and Michael for appropriate large fonts and persuasive colors. :D
No, that's a cool headed response trying to cut through your Lies. Especially the last in your previous post saying "You don't Respond" to me. You just did.
Your last-wording Obsession is stronger than your stated Principles I guess.
LOL.
It appears you only respond when you think you can be 'Liberal' against the USA.. but in fact, At Heart, you are Jerry-Falwell-with-a-Koran; a Holy Book Literalist, who's afraid to admit it.
The board awaits your stance.. more likely your non-answer is our answer.

Why? I'm sure you are more aware of my views than I am, I have Decided against Responding to Bigots.

You can assign whatever beliefs you like...."

You Keep Responding even though just 2 posts back you say you won't "respond to bigots"/directed at me however unfairly.

So, as I said, I guess your Last-wording Obsession is Stronger than ANY or you "Principles".

Again, for this new page and the board:: The issue at hand:


If you think I know your views better than you do.. it can only be because they ARE straight-down-the-Literalist-Hard-Line Muslim, despite trying to Appear 'liberal'/'friendly' here.
Because you will not and cannot answer the Simplest of questions designed to find out the most basic fact/s.
It's true, if you're a Koranic Literalist, like most Muslims, the other positions all follow and then I would "Know your views" although not "Better than you".

As to "Not responding to bigots".. In fact, you not only respond to me in other strings, you do so obsessively and last-word in Every one! Right up through last night/
Now you "won't respond to bigots"?
You're clearly DUCKING the issues here to hide your true views from the board.



S.A.M.: I would love for their committee on virtue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_the_Propagation_of_Virtue_and_the_Pr evention_of_Vice)or whatever the BS wahabi group that keeps the people under their oppression to be shut down. :bugeye:


abu afak:
Is this proclaiming, however Marginally, Your 'moderate' credentials on Islam?

You conspicuously did not answer all the Meat' in this string:
The Title post and it's differentiating of Islam from other religions in piety and in Today's world (1)... and my post/Manji, that even Moderate Muslims are Literalists. (2)

Do YOU believe the Koran is literally true? (2b)

You stated your stance on abortion previously (islamic), but are you also like Most Muslims, Literalist, and a Creationist (vs Evolutionist)? (3)

Numbered for easy but Non-evasive Reply.
(Other Muslims welcome to respond with their views as well)


To The Board:
Please Note S.A.M.'s childish, gratuitous, and Obsessive, Last-Wording with NO On-Topic Content Whatsoever. (this page and the last, and every day and discussion, for that matter)
So obsessive in fact she Lied about responding at all.
She just won't resond to questions on her Belief's, ducking the issue, but will make nonsense replies.

EDIT 2
S.A.M. herself a Moderator, or someone, has removed her cheap shot/last-word posts, both above and below this one.

Here is her post that WAS Immediately above- now deleted... an abuse By Her of the Mod Tools.



Wow, you're a mind reader

/impressed :m: :m:

To other mods who would like to see it, I have copied, and even made a print of, the page as it looked before her deletions that make her a liar on not responding-- and that is an Abuse of moderator tools.
Sent on request. But these quotes of the now gone posts shoud suffice.

Yes, it now appears, Lacking any denial of the obvious .. that a Holy Book/Koranic Literalist and ergo Creationist, has sandbagged her way into the Moderatorship of the 'Biology & Genetics' section!! (of all places)

(And Deleted Her Own embarrassing posts that were Formerly between this and my last AND between my last and the one before it.)


Here was her last post above immediately above this one, found, fortunately, by using the 'Back' button until I got there!



A principal is your pal

You mean principle, I think.

edit: that was good, you got it within five minutes. sneaky!

edit 2: ooh last wording with edit!!!

edit 3: must. have. last. word.

More Fully with post numbers etc



S.A.M.
Whatever (26,316 posts)
Today, 01:54 PM #23

A principal is your pal

You mean principle, I think.

edit: that was good, you got it within five minutes. sneaky!

edit 2: ooh last wording with edit!!!

edit 3: must. have. last. word.

Last edited by S.A.M. : Today at 02:10 PM.

This hate-filled thread is more about soap-boxing than engaging in civil discussion. The thread is closed & flushed.

If anyone has as legitimate concern and feels they can make a compelling case to reopen it, PM me.