Has anyone seen this ? I am so glad I was shown this in English class today. It's an animated film examining the soldiers memories of the Sabra and Chatila massacres. It shows how memory is a dynamic thing that affects us till the day we die. In contrast with history too. Given that fisk wrote about the same massacres, I'm surprised I haven't heard of this before, but it's a great animated film. Trailer:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylzO9vbEpPg Site:http://waltzwithbashir.com/home.html It's in hebrew (I think), but well worth a look. If not for the heavy, moral,ethical questions it raises, then for the entertainment. The Sabra and shatila massacre resulted in the wholesale slaughter of over 200 civilians, probably higher, by Israel's Phlangist allies. http://www.al-awda.org/until-return/sabra_and_shatila.jpg
I read about it in Haaretz, from Gideon Levy who has written up on it. For me the crux of the film was the director receiving some accolade for it during the Gaza massacre and going up on stage and saying not one word about what was happening in Gaza. So basically, all talk and no substance. I've been trying to get hold of it. What were your reactions on seeing the film? What about it struck you the most? Why was it shown in your class? Who organised it?
I was going to, then I saw the director laughing and smiling at the awards ceremony [or whatever it was] while Gaza was being massacred. Took away from the film for me.
I think its too much to hold against him. A man has a right to smile when he is being recognized. Watch the film not the man.
Thats the objective view. But it marred the film for me. I'll watch it eventually, but I won't forget all the time I am watching it, that the man had not one word to say about what was happening in Gaza at the time.
Great movie, definitely worth seeing. I'm not a huge fan of the visual style but it is pretty interesting.
Just because Israel has too much of a heart that they take responsibility for others' actions doesn't mean Israel is responsible for the disgusting behaviour of the Lebanese militia that did the horrific killings. Lebanese Christians got angry because their Lebanese Christian leader got killed, so they took it out on the non-combatants of the same sect ("Palestinians"). It is very telling what moral giants Israelis are that even until today they feel like THEY have to apologize for that militia's behaviour. The film is a private enterprize, not a government initiated - so it wasn't even a diplomatic PR spin by the foreign minitstry. I'm in Israel right now on vacation and I was reminded what an amazing country this is. The world is fucking crazy with the way it treats Israel. It's ridiculous... I mean, my Muslim coworker friend is afraid to visit here because he is worried he will be beaten up, and another Muslim coworker thinks he'll be killed in the streets. Israelis are the biggest peaceniks I've ever met. Even I, a strong pro-Israel supporter have begun to be affected by western propaganda and was expecting to see a much higher tension between Israelis and Arabs (local and "Palestinian" ones). I was shocked at how LITTLE tension exists here. The hotel I stayed at in Jerusalem employed East Jerusalm "Palestinians" who made food for us, they had businesses there, they walk all over the streets and nobody pays any attention to them. One Muslim child was in a class together with Jewish children on an outing, with a hijab, and right next to her there was a girl soldier with an M-16 who was assigned to guard the group. All I could see was smiles. In Jerusalem "Palestinians" own and operate non-kosher pizzerias that sell pork to young post-army Israelis. In the Jerusalem market the crowded stalls are full of Arabs and Jews who work together, joke together, smoke together, etc.. In Tzfat, the birthplace of Kabala, and in many other cities all over Israel, there are Arab kids and families just being regular people, and nobody even pays attention to them, like nobody pays attention to other Israelis on the street. My most shocking moment was when I saw 2 guys working on some stairs near Massada in the scorching heat of the dessert, one an Arab with kafia smoking a pipe, one an Israeli, listening to Tupac gangsta rap. I passed by and offered them water, and they said "we have cold water, maybe you want some?" The world media is absolutely nuts. I invite anyone who doubts this to come to Israel and see for themselves how peacenik and MORAL Israeli society is. Yes they're strong and patriotic, and when the army sends them on a mission they do it 110%, and yes there are bad apples like everywhere else, but all they want is be friends with Arabs / Muslims. Don't believe me. Come here and see for yourself. Maybe that is why they made a movie/cartoon like Waltz with Bashir when if it was up to me I'd give the finger to the deranged mobs and cynical demagogues that accuse the IDF and Israel for these massacres.
I take it you forgot to take off your rose tinted glasses when you went to Israel ? Fact is, they victimized the man who tried to blow the whistle on the massacre. Some morals.
We were studying "history and memory", how memory serves to block or remind us of specific events in history we were involved with. What struck me the most was that this was the first time anyone questioned the soldiers point of view and what they felt. People always go for the politicians.. and while it is right to blame their leaders, (particularly their officers, etc.), the man on the ground is often a scared 18 year old. It's a combination of differing viewpoints, from those for which the war was a great experience, and those that still suffer nightmares from it. It's not eye opening nor overly critical just emotive. Unfortunately. But it goes a long way there.
How did they portray the victims of the massacre? otheadp: did you go to the occupied territories? Gaza?
That's interesting SAM. I heard that Steven Speilberg didn't accept payment for his work on Schindler's List because he felt it would be blood money. Now I can't confirm that but it left we wondering how the rest of the cast and crew felt, in Steven's eyes were they not accepting blood money? Anyway it played on my mind while watching the film for the first time. Back to topic, I've added Waltz With Bashir to my Lovefilm list and look forward to watching it.
Haven't gotten to that part yet, but basically, they investigated the memories, portrayed the Victims as killed due to trigger happy soldiers and commanders, with our protagonists sandwiched in between.
I thought it was very good, but I was distracted from the message most of the time, just looking at places I know. Behibbuk ya Bayrut.
Israel gets the rap because they controlled who could enter the camps. For it to happen it required Israeli complacency.
PJdude: Israel gets the rap because they controlled who could enter the camps. For it to happen it required Israeli complacency. And that truth is at the heart of Waltz With Bashir. It is what rattles the conscience of the protagonist and is the cause of the loss of memory. He searches for the truth and that is what he finds.
The tank commander, who tried to warn his government and others, as well as the reporter.. All were vindicated and villified. So much for moral superiority.
