"I hope that as a result of our efforts, as a result of our helicopter pilots being seen by the citizens of Indonesia helping them, that value system of ours will be reinforced," Powell said.
"It turns out that the majority of those nations affected were Muslim nations," Powell said. He said of the U.S. aid, "We'd be doing it regardless of religion, but I think it does give the Muslim world and the rest of the world … an opportunity to see American generosity, American values in action."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=383449

Mr. Powell is expecting a thank you from Muslims? He stands a better chance of being brought up on child porn charges.

These people are the same ones American troops helped in Bosnia, the same Muslims that America helped in Kuwait, the same Muslims of Somalia, and the same Muslims of Afghanistan. America has helped Muslims world wide and has received nothing in return. They like us no better then we like them; this wave will not change a damn thing.

Expecting gratitude for helping a few Muslims in Indonesia is not going to change the war in Iraq. It might make the US look better, but terrorists will still be hostile. Just as they were hostile before Kuwait, just as they were hostile before Somalia... I'm sure Usama is out there thinking "Gee, those guys aren't so bad!" He ain't.

These people are the same ones American troops helped in Bosnia, the same Muslims that America helped in Kuwait, the same Muslims of Somalia, and the same Muslims of Afghanistan. America has helped Muslims world wide and has received nothing in return. They like us no better then we like them; this wave will not change a damn thing.

wow, that's some cool trick, one minute you're a Bosnian (in Bosnia) then you're miracuously teleported to kuwait, and you're suddently a kuwaity in kuwait, then you change into an indonesian

same people eh?

stop wasting bandwidth with this dribble, and :

1) think before you type
2) brush up on your political history
3) switch off CNN, it'll turn what normal brain cells you have in that bonce of yours into mush.

Wow, Outlandish, you are a dumbass. Maybe I was talking about Muslims as a whole?

) think before you type

And you should learn how to type, Mr. I-don't-know-how-to-use-the-CAPS-LOCK-or-shift-key.

3) switch off CNN, it'll turn what normal brain cells you have in that bonce of yours into mush.

CNN? You are a retard.

Except of course all Muslims arent the same :m:

Except of course all Muslims arent the same :m:

No shit. They are of the same religion, though. When Muslims in Africa are helped by America, the Muslims in Iraq don't care. That is my point.

No shit. They are of the same religion, though. When Muslims in Africa are helped by America, the Muslims in Iraq don't care. That is my point.

No but they sure do care if any one of them anywhere in the world feels they were wronged by the US and then they ALL care. Any good deed gets forgotten overnight any bad deeds gets chiseled in stone for all eternity in the collective islamic conscience. Surrenderer I am certain can and will attest to this ;) and you are right CC Powell is suffering from good ole american naivete.

This is about the opinion I saw on OpenForum on CNN yesterday.
Someone had said that :

"Why should america be accused everytime they try to do something
good?
We have silenced our critics by giving the largest donations to the
tsunami victims and still people are accusing us of negligence.

I think we should just isolate ourselves from the rest of the world and
( get this!! ) let rest of the world destroy itself!" :eek: :bugeye:

Need I say more ?... This is a blatant example of the amount
of ignorance bred in american citizens by the Bush Administration or
for that matter maybe every american government.
Most of the americans r good people and have given many valuable
contributions to the world in every field, but the ignorant ones have
to wake up to the fact that the world does not run on america's
favours. :)

These people are the same ones American troops helped in Bosnia,
Are you sure ? Because Bosnia and Kosovo were sold out , because Bosinia was divided up between Serbia and Croatia and Kosovo after being promised independence from America is still part of Serbia .
the same Muslims that America helped in Kuwait,
After April Glaspie the US ambassador too Iraq in 1990 gave Saddam Hussein a green light too invade Kuwait .
the same Muslims of Somalia,
No they were Christain Somalis .
and the same Muslims of Afghanistan.
Which I hasten too add Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11 and the resulting invasion killed God knows how many Afghanis ?
America has helped Muslims world wide and has received nothing in return.
Really ! Palestinians ? Syrians ? Libyans ? Iraqis ? Iranians ?
They like us no better then we like them; this wave will not change a damn thing.
Thats true you sow what you reap ..............
Expecting gratitude for helping a few Muslims in Indonesia is not going to change the war in Iraq.
Thats true America is doing a great job digging its own grave .
It might make the US look better,
Absolutely not , dont entertain such fantasies , the damage done by a belligerent US foreign policy is irreversible .
but terrorists will still be hostile. Just as they were hostile before Kuwait, just as they were hostile before Somalia...
Thats because the root of their hostility lies in Americas barbaric militaristic imperial policy that has ripped that region asunder .
I'm sure Usama is out there thinking "Gee, those guys aren't so bad!" He ain't.
Hey , ah ...It is not a popularity contest in operation here !

No shit. They are of the same religion, though. When Muslims in Africa are helped by America, the Muslims in Iraq don't care. That is my point.





No need to swear in everyone of your posts it only makes you sound more uneducated......anyways when one kills Muslims one week and then try to help other Muslims the next (while still killing the former mind you) then it tends to make one cynical :m:

No but they sure do care if any one of them anywhere in the world feels they were wronged by the US and then they ALL care. Any good deed gets forgotten overnight any bad deeds gets chiseled in stone for all eternity in the collective islamic conscience. Surrenderer I am certain can and will attest to this ;) and you are right CC Powell is suffering from good ole american naivete.






Yup you are right Path....... Gimmie a break..... America goes to war after 9-11 with two Muslim countries that had nothing to do with it and kill 100's of thousands of people (probably) and now plotting against a 3rd which also had nothing to do with it yet you wonder why Muslims worldwide(but not only Muslims mind you) are apprehensive......Blind support for Isreali genocide.....setting up puppet dictators........open support for others..... lies about setting up Democracy in the M.E........yup the Muslims are the ones in the wrong :rolleyes:

Yup you are right Path....... Gimmie a break..... America goes to war after 9-11 with two Muslim countries that had nothing to do with it and kill 100's of thousands of people (probably) and now plotting against a 3rd which also had nothing to do with it yet you wonder why Muslims worldwide(but not only Muslims mind you) are apprehensive......Blind support for Isreali genocide.....setting up puppet dictators........open support for others..... lies about setting up Democracy in the M.E........yup the Muslims are the ones in the wrong :rolleyes:

Yup, just about what I expected ;)

Then it's good to see that we dont disappoint each other then i guess :m:

Then it's good to see that we dont disappoint each other then i guess :m:

Your post (as an american muslim) illustrates CCs' point better than anything he could ever post :)

All CC posts show is that Western non-Muslims seem to think that because America gives some "token aid" to Muslim countries (and they werent really gonna give squat untill the world was outraged at Bush's initial offer) then they have the right to do whatever they want.America does 10 bad things for evey one good they do in the world.....and none of it without receiving something in return....yea thats admirable :rolleyes: But thats ok keep wanting to think that all Muslims want to kill you and are jealous of your immoral lifestyles....thats what the Goverment wants you to think......sheep



P.S. Why is America hated outside the Muslim world also?

No they were Christain Somalis .

The Sunni Muslim population of Somalia is 99.95%. The Christian population is so insignificant as to be almost non-existent. To assume that a major humanitarian relief effort, complete with 20,000 US Marines and special forces to back it, was exclusively for a handful of Somali Christians is ridiculous.

All CC posts show is that Western non-Muslims seem to think that because America gives some "token aid" to Muslim countries (and they werent really gonna give squat untill the world was outraged at Bush's initial offer) then they have the right to do whatever they want.

Instead of foaming at the mouth and demonstrating your particular bias why don't you show us where in the world CC says that thank you ;) (you do this constantly it is as if you don't really read what you respond to)

America does 10 bad things for evey one good they do in the world.....and none of it without receiving something in return....yea thats admirable

Your contention and I have news for you every country looks for return on investment. I fear you may be suffering from a touch of the same naivete that Mr Powell has.


But thats ok keep wanting to think that all Muslims want to kill you and are jealous of your immoral lifestyles

Yeah I am terrified that all muslims want to kill me why just tonight at the parents meeting at my sons school I was quaking in my boots when I went up and introduced myself to Hamid (in an immoral fashion I might add [I was wearing a bikini in the winter]) I also told mustafa that his son is welcome to come visit next week (while simultaneously eating pork and reading penthouse) Yes I will just keep on a sinnin' like the immoral heathen kafir I am :rolleyes:


....thats what the Goverment wants you to think......sheep

I am abit surprised to see you get on your religious highhorse I thought you were better than that (again Powells illness perhaps). Speaking of sheep I think you are due to get sheered soon you've got wool in your eyes.

And by the by if I did have any apprehensions appropos muslim attitudes this little pearl of ignorance

all Muslims are jealous of your immoral lifestyles

coming from a professed moderate muslim wouldn't make it any better.

Yeah I am terrified that all muslims want to kill me why just tonight at the parents meeting at my sons school I was quaking in my boots when I went up and introduced myself to Hamid (in an immoral fashion I might add [I was wearing a bikini in the winter]) I also told mustafa that his son is welcome to come visit next week (while simultaneously eating pork and reading penthouse) Yes I will just keep on a sinnin' like the immoral heathen kafir I am

Damn, you need to invite me over too! :D

- some american

CC is implying that Muslims dont appreciate the help that they recieve from America as witnessed by his saying:(for some reason my quote button isnt working)


Mr. Powell is expecting a thank you from Muslims? He stands a better chance of being brought up on child porn charges



So if all countries look for a return on their investment then I would hardly call that "Good-Will".......isnt that the complete opposite? And if you are eating pork and inviting Muslims over to your house then you obviously have no respect for that particular Muslims beliefs (but I knew that already) But anyway I am tired of playing "Defense" with you Path.......you are a hypocrite.....you constantly say that "its not Muslims I have a problem with its their doctrine" yet all you do is disrespect Muslims (notice your pork incident) yet I suppose you continue to expect me to be a apologist. You are not much different from anyone else here who groups all Muslims together as the same which is exactly what CC said(and you agreed with him):


No shit. They are of the same religion, though. When Muslims in Africa are helped by America, the Muslims in Iraq don't care. That is my point.



Isreal killed 11 more Palestinians yesterday I will be waiting by my TV for a condemnation from America for this attrocity.........Think I will be waitng long?

And by the by if I did have any apprehensions appropos muslim attitudes this little pearl of ignorance



coming from a professed moderate muslim wouldn't make it any better.





My Moderance doesnt make your(Americans in general....remember I live here so I see it) lifestyles Moral......lol.......but I suppose your telling me that American lifestyles(in general) are moral? :confused:

Reading comprehension 101 for you

You said

Originally Posted by surenderer
All CC posts show is that Western non-Muslims seem to think that because America gives some "token aid" to Muslim countries (and they werent really gonna give squat untill the world was outraged at Bush's initial offer) then they have the right to do whatever they want.

I said

why don't you show us where in the world CC says that thank you

All you could come up with was

Mr. Powell is expecting a thank you from Muslims? He stands a better chance of being brought up on child porn charges

and a load of ignorant hyperbole which I shall address shortly

You failed in this simple task

So if all countries look for a return on their investment then I would hardly call that "Good-Will".......isnt that the complete opposite?

No I think to the person starving in Somalia, in desperate need of medical attention in Indonesia, in fear of being murderer in Kosovo or Bosnia it makes little difference. But perhaps you can convince those folks that they are better off dying rather than accepting aid from those immoral kafirs :rolleyes:


And if you are eating pork and inviting Muslims over to your house then you obviously have no respect for that particular Muslims beliefs (but I knew that already) But anyway I am tired of playing "Defense" with you Path.......you are a hypocrite


Yeah I slip pork into thier food without them knowing then laugh maniacally all night long afterwards. That comment was in response to your immoral westerners remark it was meant to demonstrate how ignorant you are of my daily life yet still you feel qualified to make a value judgement. You want to talk hypocrite start right there.

.....you constantly say that "its not Muslims I have a problem with its their doctrine" yet all you do is disrespect Muslims (notice your pork incident) yet I suppose you continue to expect me to be a apologist.

No I would hope you could attain the presence of mind to examine yourself a little deeper. I meet muslims almost everyday and I treat them as fellow human beings I don't divide human beings into believer and disbeliever damned or saved. I have told you many times that type of thought leads to a mindset that causes discrimination no matter how you try and sugarcoat it (and you demonstrated my point with your earlier post.)


You are not much different from anyone else here who groups all Muslims together as the same which is exactly what CC said(and you agreed with him):

This is really comic given that you just called western non-muslims immoral :D


No shit. They are of the same religion, though. When Muslims in Africa are helped by America, the Muslims in Iraq don't care. That is my point.



Isreal killed 11 more Palestinians yesterday I will be waiting by my TV for a condemnation from America for this attrocity.........Think I will be waitng long?

Muslims in iraq have killed 146 fellow muslims in the past 14 days I will be waiting by my TV for a condemnation from muslims for this atrocity.....Think I will be waiting long?

No I think to the person starving in Somalia, in desperate need of medical attention in Indonesia, in fear of being murderer in Kosovo or Bosnia it makes little difference. But perhaps you can convince those folks that they are better off dying rather than accepting aid from those immoral kafirs :rolleyes:



Whats it matter America wont help them right? I mean they wont get anything in return....maybe you wouldnt be immoral Kafir's(your words) if you would help them instead of saying "Whats in it for me".....sigh Western arrogance :rolleyes:





No I would hope you could attain the presence of mind to examine yourself a little deeper. I meet muslims almost everyday and I treat them as fellow human beings I don't divide human beings into believer and disbeliever damned or saved. I have told you many times that type of thought leads to a mindset that causes discrimination no matter how you try and sugarcoat it (and you demonstrated my point with your earlier post.)



Nor do I divide people into believers and non-believers (nice try though) thats the Creator's decision not mine......but fact is fact and America is a immoral society.....thats not a secret





Muslims in iraq have killed 146 fellow muslims in the past 14 days I will be waiting by my TV for a condemnation from muslims for this atrocity.....Think I will be waiting long?[/QUOTE]


Muslims do Path......and if these are "Muslims" doing this than their punishment will be severe when they die because they are going against Koranic teachings......and I've told you this before also







This is really comic given that you just called western non-muslims immoral :D




That was me quoting CC generalizing all Muslims



Your right though Path I dont know you......but you seem to like to Generalize but dont seem to like it when it's done to you.....you have no problem saying Muslims do this or Muslims do that but when I call you Western non- Muslim's immoral you say "Hey you dont know me"!!!!......LOL

My Moderance doesnt make your(Americans in general....remember I live here so I see it) lifestyles Moral......lol.......but I suppose your telling me that American lifestyles(in general) are moral? :confused:

Quite frankly I don't know anybody whom I would consider immoral but it does give me an orwellian sense of security knowing that the morality police are on the job. It is also nice to see you put everyone under the same banner :rolleyes:

Quite frankly I don't know anybody whom I would consider immoral but it does give me an orwellian sense of security knowing that the morality police are on the job. It is also nice to see you put everyone under the same banner :rolleyes:




I know plenty(starting with the President).......but seriously Path do you watch commercials? how do they sell Beer? do they promote sex on T.V.? Is porn still a growing industry? how often are people murdered in America? Are women still raped every 90 seconds? are these things moral?

Whats it matter America wont help them right? I mean they wont get anything in return....maybe you wouldnt be immoral Kafir's(your words) if you would help them instead of saying "Whats in it for me".....sigh Western arrogance :rolleyes:

Why don't you outline where these conditions were placed on the aid. For instance what deal was hammered out in dark rooms before the USN was sent into aceh province?









Nor do I divide people into believers and non-believers (nice try though) thats the Creator's decision not mine

That is funny because this

are jealous of your immoral lifestyles

sounds like YOUR judgement or was allah typing for you then?




......but fact is fact and America is a immoral society.....thats not a secret

Refer to above again (you are not being honest here are you) and no based on my and my family and friends experience it is in fact a secret.







Muslims do Path......and if these are "Muslims" doing this than their punishment will be severe when they die because they are going against Koranic teachings......and I've told you this before also

Oh good we'll just say god will sort it out then problem solved on all sides.





Your right though Path I dont know you......but you seem to like to Generalize but dont seem to like it when it's done to you.....you have no problem saying Muslims do this or Muslims do that but when I call you Western non- Muslim's immoral you say "Hey you dont know me"!!!!......LOL

OK try this, besides the topic of this thread, which I believe has more than been shown to be a fair generalization find me ONE place in the last year here where I generalize about all muslims. If what you claim of me is true then it should be a simple matter to back up what you just said tic toc tic toc.....

I know plenty(starting with the President).......but seriously Path do you watch commercials? how do they sell Beer? do they promote sex on T.V.? Is porn still a growing industry? how often are people murdered in America? Are women still raped every 90 seconds? are these things moral?

Do these things happen only in america? This is a long topic that doesn't belong here

Sample idea
Forbidding things doesn't make them go away.

Examples
Holland: most liberal drug laws in the world
result: drug addiction has decreased the last 3 years running

Iran: some of the harhest drug laws in the world.
result: heroin addiction is now growing at a rate of three times the birth rate.

Writing cohesively 101 for you

I don't divide human beings into believer and disbeliever damned or saved.
In context, this implies you avoid stereotyping and generalisations about people. However, a few lines later:

When Muslims in Africa are helped by America, the Muslims in Iraq don't care.
You apply a generalisation about people. Your statements are mutually exclusive and reflect either careless writing, sloppy thinking, or both.

Path,



Why don't you outline where these conditions were placed on the aid. For instance what deal was hammered out in dark rooms before the USN was sent into aceh province?



You said:


Your contention and I have news for you every country looks for return on investment. I fear you may be suffering from a touch of the same naivete that Mr Powell has.



So I said:



Whats it matter America wont help them right? I mean they wont get anything in return....maybe you wouldnt be immoral Kafir's(your words) if you would help them instead of saying "Whats in it for me".....sigh Western arrogance



Who needs reading 101 again?





sounds like YOUR judgement or was allah typing for you then?


Well it's my opinion....although I do have a right to that my opinion isnt a condemnation....just an observation






OK try this, besides the topic of this thread, which I believe has more than been shown to be a fair generalization find me ONE place in the last year here where I generalize about all muslims. If what you claim of me is true then it should be a simple matter to back up what you just said tic toc tic toc.....[/QUOTE]



Besides this thread? You aint getting off that easy ;) :



No but they sure do care if any one of them anywhere in the world feels they were wronged by the US and then they ALL care. Any good deed gets forgotten overnight any bad deeds gets chiseled in stone for all eternity in the collective islamic conscience. Surrenderer I am certain can and will attest to this

Path,



“ Why don't you outline where these conditions were placed on the aid. For instance what deal was hammered out in dark rooms before the USN was sent into aceh province? ”




You said:


“ Your contention and I have news for you every country looks for return on investment. I fear you may be suffering from a touch of the same naivete that Mr Powell has. ”




So I said:



“ Whats it matter America wont help them right? I mean they wont get anything in return....maybe you wouldnt be immoral Kafir's(your words) if you would help them instead of saying "Whats in it for me".....sigh Western arrogance ”



Who needs reading 101 again?

I asked you to show me what deal they got so that they would help them since you said

Whats it matter America wont help them right? I mean they wont get anything in return



Well it's my opinion....although I do have a right to that my opinion isnt a condemnation....just an observation

No that is a value judgement saying westerners are immoral is absolutely subjective. That would be as myopic as me saying "muslims are terrorists"







Besides this thread? You aint getting off that easy ;) :


I take that as an "I give up" then ;)

Path,

lets clear something up...... I think you know that the reason a "debate" with you is because I think that you can agree to disagree respectfully with me. Now you make allegations saying "Muslims do (insert allegation here)" and I took offense to that...So I respond with saying Westerners do(insert allegation here) same thing right? You expect me not to take it personally yet you also do the same thing and thats the problem. The original poster seemed to think that Muslims "owe" something to the West for whatever reason and I took offense to that.Now hopefully this will bring us back on topic. Anything I stated that you took personally wasnt my intention(as I thought you knew me well enough by now to know) :m:

Writing cohesively 101 for you


In context, this implies you avoid stereotyping and generalisations about people. However, a few lines later:


You apply a generalisation about people. Your statements are mutually exclusive and reflect either careless writing, sloppy thinking, or both.

Ophio I think you better recheck those references you used, nuff said ;)