So. My father and I were talking about a way to help end nation wide poverty and also world wide poverty while we were walking home from school like a week ago. There is this statistic that says 2.6 billion people in the world live on less then 2 dollers a day. This made me very sad so this is my little idea.....



My father is a colonel in the army so naturally his idea for fixing world poverty is to force all Americans too serve 2 years in the Military in order to have the right to vote. I do not think this was his real thought, but I think he just said it so i'd disagree because he knows I would never join the military. Then naturally he makes me think of an idea.

So here is what we kinda put together walking home...





What if the government introduced a program that lets U.S. citizens get government help in exchange for doing government assigned work, and following government regulations.

Lets say i'm really poor, and I just cant afford to do anything. I see that I have no good future so I decide to try this program.

So I go to the place and apply. They make sure Im in good condition, and dont do drugs or anything. Then they assign me a home or apartment. Im required to keep it clean and all that. They do monthly checks to make sure everything is kept up.

Then they assign me cloths, a computer, internet, electricity, water and al that. They give me a card that alows me a certain amount of money to spend on groceries a month. They also give me 200 dollars a month allowance to do what i wish with.

Then they assign me a job. It could be farming, building houses, cooking, or any thing needed.

Last the give me an option of college classes i can take online if I choose.

If i get hurt, I have to go see an assigned doctor to see if im really hurt.. They assign me meds and all that.

If I skip work, im fined and kicked out of the program. If im bad, im kicked out.

At any time you want out, you are fined, and that is all. You can leave freely and join society.


This program would be almost completely financialy independant, and may even be a profit.



This is my solution to end national poverty. For the people who are not mentally, or phisically capable, i do not have a solution besides saying the VERY cruel statement of.... natural selection... but for anyone with a heart, and will.. they can do this to fix there lives.






Also , this could work on a global scale also. Maby not with the same policies, and I dont think it would be as efficiant.



Do you like it?

Sorry if I write bad lol, I tried very hard but im on my cell phone lol.

TY for reading =D

I'm not poor... This is for poor people who feel they this can only improve there life.

Its Voluntary also. Totally constitutional.

Sorry but what has clean parks, and watching children anything to do with this... Im sorry Im a little lost on that part.

So. My father and I were talking about a way to help end nation wide poverty and also world wide poverty while we were walking home from school like a week ago. There is this statistic that says 2.6 billion people in the world live on less then 2 dollers a day.That statistic is disingenuous. A great many of those people are farmers who grow, or at least try to grow, their own food. This is called subsistence farming. There was a time, about 11,000 years ago, when everyone lived this way because there were no cities and countries, no transportation network, not even draft animals, so every village had to be self-sufficient. This time was called the Neolithic Era and it was a short period (about 2,000 years) at the very end of the Stone Age, right before the first cities were built and civilization began. The fact that people not only survived but prospered and started up civilization under these conditions is evidence that subsistence farming is not always the abject poverty that the some people want us to think it is.

Anyway to get back to 2008CE, the problem with the conventional way we measure income is that it only includes money that people pay us. This works out okay in places like the USA and Japan because everybody has a job, and even the people who don't collect welfare, so they have monetary payments we can add up into the statistics. But in many nations in the Third World, there are a lot of people who are primarily farmers and some of them don't produce enough to sell, but they produce enough to eat. There might be only one person in an entire family who has a job, usually a woman who walks or rides a wagon or bus into town and cleans houses or does something menial like that. She might only earn $10 a day, which is $2 a day for each of the five family members, but prices are low in places like that so $3,650 a year is not quite as dismal as it seems to us rich Americans, especially when their food grows outside their house. That family is not wealthy but it may very well be at least okay with food and clothes and a radio and a bicycle.

When we think about somebody living on $2, we imagine him living in America, and $2 won't even buy a meal at McDonalds. These people we're talking about don't eat at McDonalds. Their food is much cheaper and so is everything else where they live.

The problem with these statistics is that they don't include the value of the food they produce. Alvin Toffler calls them prosumers because they produce what they consume. We all do some of that even here. Every time you make your own mix of music and burn a CD or an iPod program, you are producing your own entertainment. My generation had to go to the store and buy vinyl albums of party mixes. You get them for free--no wait, you don't. You had to do the work. Shouldn't that CD you made for yourself get counted in your annual income? It doesn't matter because you (or your family) has jobs that bring in thousands of times more than the value of that CD. But if what you're producing has as high or higher value than your family's total salary, and your government doesn't included it in its income statistics, it makes your country look even poorer than it is.What if the government introduced a program that lets U.S. citizens get government help in exchange for doing government assigned work, and following government regulations. Lets say i'm really poor, and I just cant afford to do anything. I see that I have no good future so I decide to try this program. So I go to the place and apply. They make sure Im in good condition, and dont do drugs or anything. Then they assign me a home or apartment. Im required to keep it clean and all that. They do monthly checks to make sure everything is kept up. Then they assign me cloths, a computer, internet, electricity, water and al that. They give me a card that alows me a certain amount of money to spend on groceries a month. They also give me 200 dollars a month allowance to do what i wish with. Then they assign me a job. It could be farming, building houses, cooking, or any thing needed. Last the give me an option of college classes i can take online if I choose. If i get hurt, I have to go see an assigned doctor to see if im really hurt.. They assign me meds and all that. If I skip work, im fined and kicked out of the program. If im bad, im kicked out. At any time you want out, you are fined, and that is all. You can leave freely and join society.The problem with this is that somebody has to pay for all the resources you are using. You think that the work you do will be worth the pay the government will give you, but I absolutely guarantee you that it will not. You will end up in a communist society where the work force does not produce enough to pay for itself, and eventually it will go bankrupt.

I know you think that you'll work hard and you'll earn your income. But you're too young to understand how inefficient the government is. It has twelve levels of people we call bureaucrats who do nothing all day but administer each other. It's not their fault, they all work hard, but they don't get anything done. I speak from experience. I was one of those people for more than 25 years. I went to work every day and I worked diligently. I had great ideas and they let me try them out, but there were some years when I literally accomplished nothing. You think I'm exaggerating but I'm not. When I say nothing I mean nothing. If I had stayed home every day and had them mail my paycheck, there would have been no difference. Actually it would have been better because I would not have used up the electricity in my computer and the water in the toilets.

The government is an inefficient way to work because it has no accountability. It has no customers, no creditors, no stockholders, nobody to crack down and put it out of business if it becomes too inefficient to keep paying money to. It has procedures that are so old the people who wrote them are dead. It still follows processes that were in use before the age of computers. The people who run the government are only interested in having power, they have no interest in serving the people who pay their salaries. We can throw them out but the next guy who takes their place is just as bad, because by the time you get that far up in the system the only people there are the ones who have only two characteristics: They like power and they will do whatever they have to to get it. There is no requirement that they actually be competent at their jobs.This program would be almost completely financialy independant, and may even be a profit.President Franklin Roosevelt tried this during the Great Depression of the 1930s. They had programs called the Civilian Conservation Corps and the Work Projects Administration. Go look at the concrete in your city tennis courts, you might find a little symbol in the corner that says it was built in 1936 by the W.P.A. (When I played tennis in the 1950s they were still there. They were so poorly built that they were already cracking so I suppose they've all been replaced by now. :))The only way Roosevelt could pay all these people was to raise taxes. He took money from people who were working and gave it to the poor people.

This is basically the way the Soviet Union worked. The government ran all the businesses and everybody had a job. I never visited the Soviet Union but I spent some time in the "satellite" countries in the 1970s: Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. The people all had a saying there: "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us." Their money was worth nothing. They were lucky if they had the bare necessities of life: just enough food, a crowded, run-down apartment, clothes that looked like they came from WalMart except they wore out faster, hardly anybody had a car, there was nothing to do at night except drink because the government kept the price of liquor low. No concerts, no theaters, one radio station, one TV station that was on for three hours every night.

But everybody had a job.

That's what happens when you run a country that way.Sorry if I write bad lol, I tried very hard but im on my cell phone lol.If the United States were run the way you suggest, you wouldn't have a cell phone. You'd still have an old giant black telephone with a dial and a cord in the wall. The government would not be able to produce cell phones because it's too inefficient.

So where the hell is all the money going to come from to do this? i certainly don't want my hard earned tax dollars gong to some lazy puke whose too lazy to go out and make his/her own life like I am struggling to do! Which wouldn't be so hard if I wasn't forced to shell out my own money to support lazy drug addicts who milk the system for all its worth. good god, its a good thing you are pretty!

They pay for it all themselves.

Its like a government inside a government. Each independant of the other, loyal to the constitution externally, and both financially independant of the other.

Thanks for the compliment lol

Barbie, I gotta ask cuz I have kids. If you are only 14, why on earth are you up at 2:50 am posting? Shouldn't you be in bed??? Don't you go to school?

Barbie, I gotta ask cuz I have kids. If you are only 14, why on earth are you up at 2:50 am posting? Shouldn't you be in bed??? Don't you go to school?

a) What makes you think she is in your time zone?
b) None of your business anyway!

Barbie , America already has a program to aid poor, poverty striken people. It is called WELFARE and if you would research it you would find exactly what you are talking about already being done and has been in operation for over 50 years now. 60 percent of the people in that program are white. There are also housing programs, food welfare programs, childrens welfare programs and many other programs(too many in my concern) that help out the poor. I guess you don't really understand much about what is available but millions of welfare takers sure do. Please research the welfare system and see if it doesn't do what you suggest then come up with a better way. :)

They pay for it all themselves.

Its like a government inside a government. Each independant of the other, loyal to the constitution externally, and both financially independant of the other.

???

Ok, where does the money come from??? who is the "they" in "They pay for it all themselves?

So. My father and I were talking about a way to help end nation wide poverty and also world wide poverty while we were walking home from school like a week ago. There is this statistic that says 2.6 billion people in the world live on less then 2 dollers a day. This made me very sad so this is my little idea.....



My father is a colonel in the army so naturally his idea for fixing world poverty is to force all Americans too serve 2 years in the Military in order to have the right to vote. I do not think this was his real thought, but I think he just said it so i'd disagree because he knows I would never join the military. Then naturally he makes me think of an idea.

So here is what we kinda put together walking home...





What if the government introduced a program that lets U.S. citizens get government help in exchange for doing government assigned work, and following government regulations.

Lets say i'm really poor, and I just cant afford to do anything. I see that I have no good future so I decide to try this program.

So I go to the place and apply. They make sure Im in good condition, and dont do drugs or anything. Then they assign me a home or apartment. Im required to keep it clean and all that. They do monthly checks to make sure everything is kept up.

Then they assign me cloths, a computer, internet, electricity, water and al that. They give me a card that alows me a certain amount of money to spend on groceries a month. They also give me 200 dollars a month allowance to do what i wish with.

Then they assign me a job. It could be farming, building houses, cooking, or any thing needed.

Last the give me an option of college classes i can take online if I choose.

If i get hurt, I have to go see an assigned doctor to see if im really hurt.. They assign me meds and all that.

If I skip work, im fined and kicked out of the program. If im bad, im kicked out.

At any time you want out, you are fined, and that is all. You can leave freely and join society.


This program would be almost completely financialy independant, and may even be a profit.



This is my solution to end national poverty. For the people who are not mentally, or phisically capable, i do not have a solution besides saying the VERY cruel statement of.... natural selection... but for anyone with a heart, and will.. they can do this to fix there lives.





Also , this could work on a global scale also. Maby not with the same policies, and I dont think it would be as efficiant.



Do you like it?

Sorry if I write bad lol, I tried very hard but im on my cell phone lol.

TY for reading =D


so you think, that people with mental conditions, disabilities should be dead!?

there are a lot of mental conditions and many of them can lead normal lives with medications, i dont think killing people with mental illnesses should be killed to solve world debt, we can start by wipping out the debts that countries like Uk and america are still charging some smaller countries with no chance of paying of the debts because we'rcharing high interest rates on the loans they took out!!

They pay for it all themselves.

Its like a government inside a government. Each independant of the other, loyal to the constitution externally, and both financially independant of the other.

how can they pay for it themselves when they haven't got any money??

a) What makes you think she is in your time zone?...

You're right. I think she may live in France. My bad. :o

That statistic is disingenuous. A great many of those people are farmers who grow, or at least try to grow, their own food. This is called subsistence farming. There was a time, about 11,000 years ago, when everyone lived this way because there were no cities and countries, no transportation network, not even draft animals, so every village had to be self-sufficient. This time was called the Neolithic Era and it was a short period (about 2,000 years) at the very end of the Stone Age, right before the first cities were built and civilization began. The fact that people not only survived but prospered and started up civilization under these conditions is evidence that subsistence farming is not always the abject poverty that the some people want us to think it is.

Anyway to get back to 2008CE, the problem with the conventional way we measure income is that it only includes money that people pay us. This works out okay in places like the USA and Japan because everybody has a job, and even the people who don't collect welfare, so they have monetary payments we can add up into the statistics. But in many nations in the Third World, there are a lot of people who are primarily farmers and some of them don't produce enough to sell, but they produce enough to eat. There might be only one person in an entire family who has a job, usually a woman who walks or rides a wagon or bus into town and cleans houses or does something menial like that. She might only earn $10 a day, which is $2 a day for each of the five family members, but prices are low in places like that so $3,650 a year is not quite as dismal as it seems to us rich Americans, especially when their food grows outside their house. That family is not wealthy but it may very well be at least okay with food and clothes and a radio and a bicycle.

When we think about somebody living on $2, we imagine him living in America, and $2 won't even buy a meal at McDonalds. These people we're talking about don't eat at McDonalds. Their food is much cheaper and so is everything else where they live.

The problem with these statistics is that they don't include the value of the food they produce. Alvin Toffler calls them prosumers because they produce what they consume. We all do some of that even here. Every time you make your own mix of music and burn a CD or an iPod program, you are producing your own entertainment. My generation had to go to the store and buy vinyl albums of party mixes. You get them for free--no wait, you don't. You had to do the work. Shouldn't that CD you made for yourself get counted in your annual income? It doesn't matter because you (or your family) has jobs that bring in thousands of times more than the value of that CD. But if what you're producing has as high or higher value than your family's total salary, and your government doesn't included it in its income statistics, it makes your country look even poorer than it is.The problem with this is that somebody has to pay for all the resources you are using. You think that the work you do will be worth the pay the government will give you, but I absolutely guarantee you that it will not. You will end up in a communist society where the work force does not produce enough to pay for itself, and eventually it will go bankrupt.

I know you think that you'll work hard and you'll earn your income. But you're too young to understand how inefficient the government is. It has twelve levels of people we call bureaucrats who do nothing all day but administer each other. It's not their fault, they all work hard, but they don't get anything done. I speak from experience. I was one of those people for more than 25 years. I went to work every day and I worked diligently. I had great ideas and they let me try them out, but there were some years when I literally accomplished nothing. You think I'm exaggerating but I'm not. When I say nothing I mean nothing. If I had stayed home every day and had them mail my paycheck, there would have been no difference. Actually it would have been better because I would not have used up the electricity in my computer and the water in the toilets.

The government is an inefficient way to work because it has no accountability. It has no customers, no creditors, no stockholders, nobody to crack down and put it out of business if it becomes too inefficient to keep paying money to. It has procedures that are so old the people who wrote them are dead. It still follows processes that were in use before the age of computers. The people who run the government are only interested in having power, they have no interest in serving the people who pay their salaries. We can throw them out but the next guy who takes their place is just as bad, because by the time you get that far up in the system the only people there are the ones who have only two characteristics: They like power and they will do whatever they have to to get it. There is no requirement that they actually be competent at their jobs.President Franklin Roosevelt tried this during the Great Depression of the 1930s. They had programs called the Civilian Conservation Corps and the Work Projects Administration. Go look at the concrete in your city tennis courts, you might find a little symbol in the corner that says it was built in 1936 by the W.P.A. (When I played tennis in the 1950s they were still there. They were so poorly built that they were already cracking so I suppose they've all been replaced by now. :))The only way Roosevelt could pay all these people was to raise taxes. He took money from people who were working and gave it to the poor people.

This is basically the way the Soviet Union worked. The government ran all the businesses and everybody had a job. I never visited the Soviet Union but I spent some time in the "satellite" countries in the 1970s: Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. The people all had a saying there: "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us." Their money was worth nothing. They were lucky if they had the bare necessities of life: just enough food, a crowded, run-down apartment, clothes that looked like they came from WalMart except they wore out faster, hardly anybody had a car, there was nothing to do at night except drink because the government kept the price of liquor low. No concerts, no theaters, one radio station, one TV station that was on for three hours every night.

But everybody had a job.

That's what happens when you run a country that way.If the United States were run the way you suggest, you wouldn't have a cell phone. You'd still have an old giant black telephone with a dial and a cord in the wall. The government would not be able to produce cell phones because it's too inefficient.

Sorry to be a party pooper but you are talking to a troll. I'm still waiting for a pm in French but am not holding my breath.

Barbie, I gotta ask cuz I have kids. If you are only 14, why on earth are you up at 2:50 am posting? Shouldn't you be in bed??? Don't you go to school?

Can't you guess ?

yes, but I don't want to assume. :D

Thanks for the compliment lol

dites moi en Francais de quoi il s'agit ici.

LOL, good luck with that Myles.

Lol yes I go to school.

I'm from Florida USA. I was born in france but I only lived there like.. 3 years. Then I was adopted and live here...

I slept until 1pm saturday, and like 12 pm sunday.. Then I drank a monster energy drink and a mountain dew code red.

I didnt fall asleep until 3:55 am last night and I woke at 5:30.

I drank a big cup of french vanila capichino and here I am... I feel week... but hyper.... not sleepy lol


Im not sure if its a sleeping disorder or a skill tho....

I can go on like very little sleep for like 2 or 3 days... then I start hearing things on the 3rd lol and I get home and sleep from like 3pm to like 3am.... So my sleeping schedule is always off.




Omg... did someone call me a troll... Thats kinda mean... It does make me sad honestly so please be nice.

BTW, sorry I didnt know about all these programs... Mods can close this thread if you want... Pretty sure my idea is totally um... whats the word.... irrelevant! lol

Lol yes I go to school.

I'm from Florida USA. I was born in france but I only lived there like.. 3 years. Then I was adopted and live here...

I slept until 1pm saturday, and like 12 pm sunday.. Then I drank a monster energy drink and a mountain dew code red.

I didnt fall asleep until 3:55 am last night and I woke at 5:30.

I drank a big cup of french vanila capichino and here I am... I feel week... but hyper.... not sleepy lol


Im not sure if its a sleeping disorder or a skill tho....

I can go on like very little sleep for like 2 or 3 days... then I start hearing things on the 3rd lol and I get home and sleep from like 3pm to like 3am.... So my sleeping schedule is always off.




Omg... did someone call me a troll... Thats kinda mean... It does make me sad honestly so please be nice.

BTW, sorry I didnt know about all these programs... Mods can close this thread if you want... Pretty sure my idea is totally um... whats the word.... irrelevant! lol

You forgot to mention your email addy in France. I assume you had it at age three before you left, n'est pas ?

BarbieGirl14,

Basically the problem is there are a lot of lazy people out there. You probably are not one of them and with your father being in the military you may not have been exposed to them .. yet.

When I was at Uni one girl I lived with was taking a 2 year degree for 10 years. She had failed every single class at least once or twice. Went part time then full time then part time then miss a semester then repeat a semester. Her great "medical" excuse was she was "partially dyslectic" although this diagnosis was made in another country and she refused to repeat any more tests. The truth of the matter is she was VERY lazy, didn't do her work and when she did she didn't do it right. She would sometimes obsess over a paper that was meant to be done in 1 day and take a month and hand in a mini-thesis while missing all other assignments. She often took a week off to go hangout at the beach. She once told me that being paid anything under $18/hour was not worth her time to get up in the morning (actually that was often early afternoon). She basically lived off over charging the other house-mates rent because she had the lease in her name from ten years prior in addition to government student loans and maybe was trying to get medical benefits as a "dyslexic". In short she was mooching off the system.

I suppose my point is, left to their own accord there are MANY MANY MANY people that just can't pull their finger out of their arse and do something.


That said, I actually have my own idea to try for society. :)
Imagine, there is no paper money only credits. Everyone has a computer chip that monitors everything they do. There is a central mainframe that measures each persons contribution to society and each person is awarded a certain number of credits depending on their contribution. Really, there is no way for a person to blame anyone other than themselves.

So, if people form a team that works well together, share ideas, work hard, collectively they will make more credits than individually - on the whole. If one person is simply brilliant then yes they could make a lot of credit on their own. If an artist makes art that people go to see - credit goes up. If you type on Sciforums and this somehow influences others to the benefit to society creit goes up. Sit on you butt an watch TV all day maybe = no credit BUT if you had a good day of productivity then that's OK, you don't need the credit you can relax.

Given that groups that work efficiently earn more credit then if in the group someone is not pulling their weight it makes sense for the group to get rid of this person. It becomes harder to support nepotism because it ultimately effects the whole group. I'm not saying that each person in the group gets equal numbers of credits - I think that this would fluctuate with experience and continuing endeavor as measured by this mainframe computer. Think of it as a huge AI.

Anyway, that's my idea ;)

Troll or not Troll, I still like my computer chipped society :p

basically, I think, everyone wants to be rewarded for their hard work and do not want to see people get something for nothing. So, in this society you will really see just how well you stack up against everyone else.

Myles, are you saying that because my msn ends in .fr, that I infact, am french. Do you assume i'm ashamed of my nationality, so I claim American?

I'm not sure if your trying to prove I am french, or american.

Either way it shouldn't matter. My father made my msn. The name is poliastin... meaning "pretty astin". Would I name myself pretty astin?

I encourage you to belive what ever you want, but please keep it to yourself.

Good on ya for even considering the topic BarbieGirl. :) Keep on truckin`.

There are voluntary communisms in the sense of communes. Monastery and Nunneries are voluntary but I'm not sure how well they do economically? Are they self sufficient or does the church pretty much have to pay through everything via donations and rental property?

There are voluntary communisms in the sense of communes. Monastery and Nunneries are voluntary but I'm not sure how well they do economically? Are they self sufficient or does the church pretty much have to pay through everything via donations and rental property?Some monasteries make a nice profit for themselves and for the church by producing goods and services. Wine is one of the former and teaching of the latter. The Trappists make an exceptionally good line of preserves that is a staple in our house. The Jesuits run a number of high schools, colleges and universities.