I am going out on a limb and predict that in about 30 years we will be visited by Aliens and we will extend our friendship to them. These aliens will be from a planet that has more water than us and evolved from Dolphins as ancestors but will be adaptable both in air and water. They will be slightly advanced in technology. But not so much that we are incompatible. The reasoning they will provide is that in their planet, the changes in weather pattern and meteor stikes was too rapid to make a land based evolution take hold before they evolved. I would like to see some biologist do an extrapolation as to the social structure of these type people based on Dolphin as a source. Thank you.
I predict that in 6 months Darth Vader will take over the universe and make us all be slaves to work in his factory to manufacture spacefighters to travel to other dimensions and eat quesadillas.
kmguru, I think we will make contact sooner than that maybe sooner than we think. Corp.Hudson, What can I say, very intelligent. I have not heard of any Darth Vader sightings.Surely you can ad some constructive speculation on the subject. Making fun of people gets old besides thats not what this board is about but I'm sure you know that. Alien
Alien Thank you for the moral support. However it is unnecessary. Because when children make jokes in inappropriate occasions, grown-ups normally ignore them (the jokes that is – not the children). We should do the same. On the other hand if a grown-up made such a joke, he or she will quickly realize the mistake and apologize. With respect to your comment on early visitation, you are more right than you think. My sources tell me 15 to 20 years. There is a way to find out within +/- 5 years. To do that I need 7 to 9 volunteers of age between 19 and 26 that can be trained on vedic meditative techniques. I have no idea if the technique reconfigures the neural pathways and makes new connections based on the objective function, but apparently it works. As mankind, we are at the cusp of the convergence of human psyche, information technology and Hollywood imagination (a la Babylon 5). As the technology is moving at the exponential rate, we will shortly have tools to expand our old noggin and hence comprehend and manipulate our reality as never before. Even today, chemicals are available that expand ones mind (that allow one to learn new subjects at an extremely fast rate and I am not talking about those illegal drugs here!), DNA annotations are going on at genomics labs as we speak, bio-informatics are heading towards main stream science and forensics. I discussed a little bit of this 2 years ago in exosci forum. We are living in interesting times indeed.
Laughing at Hudson, then scowling. Guru: Getting back to your idea for an extrapolation of social structure, etc. of Dolphin-evolved inteligent beings and their interactions with humans, I like the idea a lot. As a "wanna-be" scifi writer, I do a lot of thinking on things like this. They would likely communicate telepathically, (or at least not vocally) as cetaceans do not speak their native tounge above water. I can imagine a completely different psychology for these creatures, for living under water makes them like birds, flying through the liquid. They would see us as slightly restrained beings, only capable of movement in two dimensions, normally. However, if they really are cetaceans, they would relate well to us, because our two species, however dissimilar, are both breathers of oxygen in a similar fashion. It would be hard to arrange a meeting, because they would always be behind the walls of a tank of some kind, due to the necesity of a liquid environment. That is, unless they developed some kind of space suit for use in a gaseous world... It is in fact rather likely that they would come to Earth, of all planets... After all, we do have a very appetizing seventy percent water-covered surface area... And, in fact, life forms quite similar to their own. It's getting late here, I should go. But we can continue these intruiguing speculations at a later time, no? -DataBob
You know what, with a closed mind darth vader could slap you in the face and say, "take me to your leader" and you would probably say it was all in your head. You may wake up one day but hope its not too late by then. Anyone been keeping up with jedi approach? darth vader is old news if you watch the ancient writings even in the bible as well, all the photos though some are faked yes but not all. Watch the star wars footage, even nasa has evidence, the vatican even, but little skeptics and debunkers who dispute all of this are a waste of breath. Luke Skywalker and others, keep your heads up and know there are those of us who do know what you speak of, no its not mental illness its real, those who have been through it know go to the drak side and you will see all the others that have 'mental illness' and the hundreds of others of us who suffer in silence for fear of ridicule such as by those others on this board and everywhere. The govt has known as has the govts of many others for years but will always sell-out its own people on this planet. I Am tired of reading the ridicule by those who think they know it all. By all means noone will ever know all and even if they had undisputed proof would debunk or disprove it in their own little human minds. Don't get down.....you know what you know.
Let us discuss Darkside and Luke Skywalker stuff in "Religious Debate" forum. Thanks. I have my thoughts in this matter but this area is too polarized for any discussion to be meaningful. It is very difficult to have new interpretation on the religious text. We are the only species who kill our own not because of food but religious differences. Look at what is going on in the middle-east. Until mankind evolves to a higher understanding...some of us have, others have a long way to go...what is the use?
Is not that Dolphins have lungs (or a lung!) and breath air rather than water. I think they do not have gills. Presently as long as Dolphins are kept wet, they do fine above water (I think). So if we extrapolate another few million years, they could be bipedal with web feet and could communicate telepathy or high frequency waves and may be can talk at 6 to 8 KHz. Humans can produce 100 Hz to 12 KHz or higher in harmonics. The social order should not be difficult to extrapolate because we have 3 out of 4 data. That is we know how primates live, we know how we live and we know how dolphins live. If you are a sci-fi writer, I have tons of material you can use a la Babylon 5.
That last post of mine was copied and pasted from another thread, the original author was farieshaman (I think?). I changed a few words from "alien" to darth vader, and stuf like that, but it was 99% farieshamans post. Scary, huh? Anyways, Dolphins do have lungs, and they can survive outside of water, as long as they are wet. As far as I know, they dont like it very much though. Also, Dolphins evolved from land-dwelling creatures (I think they were similar to modern day large cats, I am not sure though) that lived and hunted near the water. Over millions of years, these creatures evolved to live in the water. That is where we get modern day dolhpins from. So, if anything, Dolphin evolution should make them more aquatic, not less.
Yeah, I agree there. I actually claim to know quite a bit about Dolphins... (Whether I really do or not remains to be seen.) But anyway, I am 110% certain that Dolphins breath with lungs, not gills. And I'm sure a dolphin could sruvive out of water, if kept wet, for quite a time... but it would be terribly unpleasant due to the abnormal force of gravity. And that's right, evolved Dolphins would probably be more aquatic, especially on a planet as you describe. There is not much reason for Dolphins to evolve on such a planet as you descibed, given their cycle from water to land to water, unless the meteor activity picked up at a certain stage, when life on land had already asserted itself fairly well. And there is certianly no reason for humanoid life to appear on such a world... That would require a very long time of land success... You'd have to work all the way up to monkeys in a tree-like environment, and then make a desert appear, or something like that. Two legs and some nice, pointy-fingered hands such as a human has are not well suited to life below the waves. Actually, it just occured to me that with fins instead of hands, it would be terribly difficult to put together any kind of advanced technology, let alone a space program powerful enough to get them to Earth, and the reason to do so, given the danger of meteors in their system. In order to accomplish anything, the dolphins would have to develop strong telekinetic abilities, so they could put things together, build cities, etc. Actually, cities would be indeed very useful to a dolphin society on a meteor-plagued planet. They construct huge tanks, pumps etc. that would allow them to live, with a good source of the air they need, but deep under the waves and safe from meteors. I had better save the rest for later... (PS... What do you mean by "a la Babylon 5"? Is that like... Ideas and plotlines stolen from the show? Or are you one of the writers, and you have a big list of all the things you would have done but did not? Explain this to me.)
No, I am not one of the writers of B5 (I love the show, though). Harlan Ellison, the tech consultant for B5 did a fantastic job keeping future technology in a plausible scenario. The dialogs are superb. In my professional circle, most grown men do not watch TV drama series (I do not know why?) but they do watch B5 - to perhaps get the drama effect. It is sad that the networks pass the high-income demographics and stick with mediocre programs directed towards the masses. No, I am not trying to steal any ideas and plotlines from the show either. What I meant was – if you are an SF writer, I can provide equally plausible quality story lines. I do have strong family ties to the movie/tv world but have so far done nothing in that area. I am a business technology consultant by trade and solve highly complex, multivariate problems & issues. To stay innovative, I use SF world as a kind of holodeck simulation that helps me think out-of-the-box. You will be surprised how many upper management executives are cerebrally challenged, when it comes to solving complex issues. Getting back to our Dolphin world, I agree with you to a point. Your path of logical conclusion is correct. We can go on this path and see where it leads us. On the other hand, we can introduce some discontinuous steps to make Dolphins more human like – bipedal, five fingers with large palms, amphibious etc. This can be a new thread. If readers are interested to contribute, we can go on a parallel path and see where each civilization leads to. Now, going on your path, we need to solve the telekinetic (TK) issue – otherwise Dolphins will never have any major technology. Can a human mind or any biological mind produce TK with sufficient power level to rearrange molecules of matter? Assume for a moment that the pineal gland in humans is an i/o communication device that can handle a data stream where the information content is all five senses of human experience. This creates two threads: 1) We can digitize and record this information and sell discs of our experience (learning, travel etc – a la Brainstorm) 2) Can a gland produce TK? In case one, it is a very possible scenario and I have been working on this in my spare time. Any comments and ideas on this is welcome. In case of case two – This brings us back to the Dolphin case and may be our Pyramid building case. My feelings are: a) Moving nano-gram objects through short distances by TK is possible. b) Moving large objects by TK may need power amplifiers. c) Creating products out of thin air is not possible unless molecular spec exists in a database. (That is you can not create an apple even though you can taste and smell it, without knowing the detail molecular composition and distribution) This is where my logic got stuck. I do not think TK is possible. I feel we will create electro-mechanical devices that will do that work commanded through brainwaves/telepathy. Anyone who has any constructive ideas, please jump in. HAPPY HOLIDAYS…
Who is to say that dolphins couldnt develop some other way to manipulate objects (besides TK or hands). Why not further development of their "beak." Or the could develop tentacle appendages above their mouths (think elephants).
Ooh, yeah, that's a point... But that would make them look pretty weird, wouldn't it? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! A trunk-dolphin... And, Guru, althoug I see what you are saying for the most part, you are operating on the assumption that TK ability is bound by normal laws of physics. I don't like to wander too far from good old physical limits, but I myself see that the human brain is infinitely more powerful than we have yet learned to use it. If some attempt were made to fully explore the dormant TK power the brain may have, it might be found that it is possible to do a whole number of things that our modern physicists never imagined. A skilled TK mind might be able to generate an apple from thin air by arranging particles on the sub-sub-atomic level... Below quarks, who knows how the world works? Or, perhaps such a person could find a way to fully tranform energy into matter. Like, by somehow harvesting solar energy for a while, a person might be able to turn that energy into an equivalent amount of matter. (E=mc2 backwards... the opposite of a nuclear blast...) I admit that we shouldn't rely on physics being so fluid and trivial that we can fly beyond it, but the full potential of telekinetics should not be ruled out. And as for the Dolphins, it might not take a lot of TK to let them build a society. Just enough to move small rocks, or manipulate the shape, temperature, density, etc. of seaweed of native plants might allow them to make their aired bubble-cities that I imagine. And who knows what kind of natural resources they have? (another thought on TK... even if a single Dolphin is not strong enough, a group of six or more might be able to fold space using this TK power, which would be an easy way for them to reach earth.) Sorry for fixating on this TK thing, but it just occured to me... The brain works by building neural pathways in early development, right? Or, it has been said, it starts with all pathways and then destroys a few of them because they get atrophy after six months of life. I hope I understand this... So... if a human begins with embedded TK ability that is never put to use because of this brain-cell atrophy, would it be possible to keep these cells awake from an early stage, to end up with a full grown man with full-blown telekinetic ability? Hmm... I'll put it in one of my stories some time, at least. Any other thoughts on this? Anyone want to break back into the Dolphin society speculations? -DataBob
