Greetings!

Are animals other than humans capable of attaining enlightenment? What is the "value" of non-human animals? (By "value" I mean are these animals considered "lesser", as is often the case in Western philosophy?) I don't want to say too much, for fear of limiting replies to this post. I'm simply wondering about the views regarding non-humans (specifically other animals) in Eastern philosophy.

Replies and/or suggested viewing/listening/reading are appreciated!

I assume you mean Buddhism, but there are many others with different attitudes. In Buddhism, the human is considered the highest form of reincarnation, and animals are not capable of enlightenment. Other aliens might be.

Animals, plants, etc...are lower forms of life. In Hinduism they say humans have sufficient intelligence to attain enlightenment, realize brahman. Therefore if a human doesn't seek enlightenment or liberation they have wasted their existence.

In the Vedas, Puranas, and other Hindu and Buddhist scriptures it mentions that there are many other races existing in the universe. Some of which are Kindevas (human-like but with no need for sleep, no fatigue, hunger, or thirst), Kimpurusas (advanced race of monkeys, with human-like intelligence), Guhyakas, Siddhas, Gandharvas, Vidyadharas, Caranas, Kinnaras, Nagas, Apsaras, and others

Animals are not capable of enlightenment, they are though capable of attaining a human incarnation from which they may then attain enlightenment.

I am not sure about buddhism but in hinduism animals are not considered lesser, as brahman is present in all life. Animals as well as humans may be the present incarnations of past relatives and loved ones. There is a story in one of the upanishads of a man cooking a fish and feeding some to a dog - but the story describes it that he is cooking his wife and and feeding it to his mother. (this is from memory so forgive me if not completey accurate but the sense of it is correct)

Interestingly in buddhism the gods are also not capable of liberation, although they may have very long lives relatively free from suffereing, it is only in their next human incarnation that they may attain full liberation.

Goat meat is the only non-vegetarian items allowed per Ayurveda. Per Ayurveda if a human being has deficiency in any part of the body it is recommended to consume the same (equivalent) body part of the goat to compensate and/or rejuvenate.

Since goat can survive on less food and can live in high altitude often these animals are seen in the company of divine/holy men in mountains.

Goat meat is the only non-vegetarian items allowed per Ayurveda. Per Ayurveda if a human being has deficiency in any part of the body it is recommended to consume the same (equivalent) body part of the goat to compensate and/or rejuvenate.

Since goat can survive on less food and can live in high altitude often these animals are seen in the company of divine/holy men in mountains.

There are restrictions in the vedas according to which animals can be eaten - there are provisions for eating goats, as well as other animals, but onoy in accordance with religious injunctions - namely on the dark fortnight of the month - and even then one says a mantra before offering the goat thattranslates as "Just as I am killing you, in the future you will be able to kil me" - even the very word for meat , "mamsa", translates as "You are like me" - actually in the vedas meat eating is very advocated, but there are provisions for it just to regulate the bad habits of less intelligent persons who can not immediately give up their unwanted habits immediately - It is absurd to think that a saintly person (at least by vedic standards) is keeping a few goats around to eat - as for the ayurveda, it states that meat eating is a good source of vitamins but that the body parts that one's body manufactures from such meat vitamins are all third class - in other words meat is like shoddy building materials for one's body

Greetings!

Are animals other than humans capable of attaining enlightenment? What is the "value" of non-human animals? (By "value" I mean are these animals considered "lesser", as is often the case in Western philosophy?) I don't want to say too much, for fear of limiting replies to this post. I'm simply wondering about the views regarding non-humans (specifically other animals) in Eastern philosophy.

Replies and/or suggested viewing/listening/reading are appreciated!

Generally animals are stuck in the cycles of karma whereas a human has the opportunity to get free from such karma - however there are exceptions to the rule
http://srimadbhagavatam.com/5/8/en (particularly towards the end of the chapter)

It is absurd to think that a saintly person is keeping a few goats around to eat
True. Read the damn post once again,

“Since goat can survive on less food and can live in high altitude often these animals are seen in the company of divine/holy men in mountains.” and were did you read it is to eat them ?????

High ideals and low patience :rolleyes:

are all third class
You don’t know a thing about Ayurveda, right? Heard of Aja Masa Rasayana? Mother Google might help.

True. Read the damn post once again,

“Since goat can survive on less food and can live in high altitude often these animals are seen in the company of divine/holy men in mountains.” and were did you read it is to eat them ?????

High ideals and low patience :rolleyes:

Seemed that you were advocating that the ayurveda gives the big thumbs up in regard to meat eating - of course hindu culture is traditionally vegetarian and it is only due to recent corruptions that seem to suggest otherwise


You don’t know a thing about Ayurveda, right? Heard of Aja Masa Rasayana? Mother Google might help.
Never said taht there were not non veg ayurveda preperations - but if you insist on taking such things daily like vitamin C or something you are transgressing vedic standards for sattvic existence (and generally it is accepted that rajas and tamas are modes of life that tend to cause disease and suffering)

There may be exceptions but generally ayurveda follows the precepts of hinduism that there are three categories of food tamasic, rajasic or sattvic. One should aim for the sattvic and stay away from the tamasic.

very briefly;
sattvic; fresh fruit and veg, whole grains and pulses
rajasic; hot and spicy food, sugar and caffiene
tamasic; dead animals, alcohol, stale and preserved food.

Generally animals are stuck in the cycles of karma whereas a human has the opportunity to get free from such karmaI thought that a soul is reincarnated in a body of a species appropriate to its effect on karma in the last life. Are not humans who have lived evil lives reincarnated as cockroaches or some such? Does not every soul have a moment between death and rebirth to contemplate its fate thus far and strive to do better next time? And therefore does the dead cockroach get a chance at being reincarnated as a frog and so on until one day the soul again resides in a human body?

Or have all the people throughout my life who tried to explain this to me gotten it horribly wrong? :)

Fraggle Rocker

I thought that a soul is reincarnated in a body of a species appropriate to its effect on karma in the last life.

Thats correct - the distinction is that humans have a greater field for success (and alternatively failure) due to the special facilities they have of intelligence


Are not humans who have lived evil lives reincarnated as cockroaches or some such?
yes - animal life is generally a punishment - cockroaches and the like evolve through the 8 000 000 species of life explained in the visnu purana

There are 900,000 species living in the water. There are also 2,000,000 nonmoving living entities such as trees and plants. There are also 1,100,000 species of insects and reptiles, and there are 1,000,000 species of birds. As far as quadrupeds are concerned, there are 3,000,000 varieties, and there are 400,000 human species.

....so to wind up as a cockroach means that the good news is that you made it to the insect species and don't have to through the 2 900 000 species of aquatic and plant life (although I imagine by insect standards a cockroach is part of the upper eschelon of the insect community) - so after successfully being a cockroach one can be elevated to the next evolutionary stage of the insect/reptile world and then go to the aviary world etc .... when one reaches the human form of life however one has a greater capacity for individual expression, hence religion is found everywhere amongst humans in all eras - if a human being lives only to fulfill the animal propensities of sleeping, eating, mating and defending then it is understood that they have wasted the human form and are very likely to get thrown back in to the animal life by dint of their own desires. (like for instance if one is infatuated by being strong and working out in the gym one can take birth as an elephant and be naturally strong by birth - if however one uses one's physical strength to protect the weak then they can elevated to even the demigod status, which, BTW is still a cut beneath liberation - liberation would require that one utilizes one's body mind and senses in the service of god)

Does not every soul have a moment between death and rebirth to contemplate its fate thus far and strive to do better next time?
generally no - the striving comes while one is living - every moment of our lives leads to a state of consciousness at the time of death which determines our next destination

BG 8.5: And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body, remembering Me alone, at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.

BG 8.6: Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, O son of Kuntī, that state he will attain without fail.

BG 8.7: Therefore, Arjuna, you should always think of Me in the form of Kṛṣṇa and at the same time carry out your prescribed duty of fighting. With your activities dedicated to Me and your mind and intelligence fixed on Me, you will attain Me without doubt.

BG 8.8: He who meditates on Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his mind constantly engaged in remembering Me, undeviated from the path, he, O Pārtha, is sure to reach Me.

Thats why its a common phenomena for persons having a near death experience to say "their life flashed before their eyes"




And therefore does the dead cockroach get a chance at being reincarnated as a frog and so on until one day the soul again resides in a human body?

yes - but that process is mechanical and time consuming - particularly if one dies prematurely, one will have to go through the whole ordeal of being reborn in the same species to exhaust whatever karma remained to be exhausted in that species (thats why its not good to eat meat as a human - theres a good chance you are implicated in transgressing human dharma (we do't have a body designed to eat meat - and slaughter certainly goes against the higher values innate to humanity) and frustrating a living entities attempt to evolve out of the animal species ...)

having said all this you can read the chapter link I posted earlier for an example of an exception to the rule

humans have the special dharma for either transcendence or degradation, thus elevation to the heavenly planets (the higher rung of the 400 000 species of human life) or liberation (leaving the material creation altogether and returning to one's eternal constitutional position in the spiritual realm) is possible ... and the down side is the possibility of taking birth as a worm in stool for a million years (due to transgressing dharma)

Or have all the people throughout my life who tried to explain this to me gotten it horribly wrong? :)

except for the limbo thing as an opportunity to deliberate over one's next destination it seemed pretty much on track

equal
as is a grain of sand

the ancient dolts are mistaken

BG 8.8: He who meditates on Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his mind constantly engaged in remembering Me, undeviated from the path, he, O Pārtha, is sure to reach Me.

pukes
these krishna fans are as misguided as the christians
there is no daddy, maggots

equal
as is a grain of sand

the ancient dolts are mistaken

BG 8.8: He who meditates on Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his mind constantly engaged in remembering Me, undeviated from the path, he, O Pārtha, is sure to reach Me.

pukes
these krishna fans are as misguided as the christians
there is no daddy, maggots

your post seems like a series of non-sequitors - although you seem to be convinced of your conclusion

equal? grain of sand?

and the BG quote establishes something?

:confused:

seems like you are justing itching for an excuse to attack theists

Thank you for all the replies!