Viewpoints of intelligence?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by goofy headed punk, Dec 3, 2003.

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  1. goofy headed punk

    goofy headed punk Registered Senior Member

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    What do you people think of when you think of a smart person. What does it mean for a person to be smart?

    I ask because I am writing a paper about American education (namely the unfortunate idea that education should create people filled to the brim with facts, rather than understanding) and would like to know what other people think smart is. Is the smart person a walking encyclopedia or simply curiosity coupled with a little background knowledge?

    That sort of thing.
     
    goofy headed punk, Dec 3, 2003
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  3. sargentlard

    sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

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    Do your own homeowrk goddamn you.

    What or who is smart?...hmmmm.

    Well knowing things does not constitute higher intelligence, it is simply good memory and good memory does indicate above average intelligence. To me, intelligence is something more than knowing the facts and knowing big words to present those facts ina flowery way. Intelligence to me is someone with a sharp wit, someone who can apply themselves to a certain activity or task and more than succed. Cognitive processing can be distributed in the most unorthadox of ways and some of those ways are not necessarily deemed intelligent by any means, infact they are labelda nuisance and an annoyance to be rid of (i.e a smart ass kid who comes back with wildly witty responses to his teachers inquires. Hearing the words and then processing a response that will surely excite the crowd is a gift all on its own, yet that kid could be a faliure in all of his classes.)


    The problem with the Western education system is that it excludes the option presented in that example above. It is simply out to teach kids the basic knowledge in the general subjects. It totally disregards the childs natural and preferences and a students strengths and weaknesses. A child with a significantly high "IQ" can be totally indifferent to what is taught in the public education system yet he/she may trump the student with the significantly high grades when it comes to applying that knowledge in rea lworld applications. A F student may exude ingenious creatvity that the wel lschooled chap just not be able to match. Basically the the numbers are held in higher relevence then the students potential. This is what i believe is the cause of the rapidly declining test scores of students all around the US nation. But.....in a beuracracy that is the most efficent method of teaching as many students as they can under the constraints of a limited budget. Basically the teachers are expected t og othe extra mile without the extra pay.

    This is even the case in Colleges and Universities, though not as bad but not as good compared to what is avaliable in other nations.

    Intelligence to me is a demeanor that can be adapted for every situation and employment of logic concerning social situations. Those who can keep their temper under control and use those who they despise for their own purposes and benfits. Those who go higher on the food chain without spouting off brilliant facts and knowing every book of phiosophy ever written...those usually are also, unfortunetly, some of the biggest bastards you'll ever meet.

    keep your friends close, and your enemies closer

    That is intelligence. Wit, clever, on your feet.
     
    sargentlard, Dec 3, 2003
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  5. SoLiDUS

    SoLiDUS OMGWTFBBQ Registered Senior Member

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    High computational power, crisp logic and an ability to succeed in
    any endeavor: everyone can gather and use trivia...

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    SoLiDUS, Dec 3, 2003
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  7. ripleofdeath

    ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

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    What do you people think of when you think of a smart person. What does it mean for a person to be smart?
    ---
    you could write a paper one each of these as they are both very involved and broard reaching questions depending on what depth of data you wish to collect

    i would strongly suggest that because your paper will dwell heavily in the realms of psychology that you should make a few considerations for your expediency of completion

    one
    sociological trends that may or may not infer concepts of intellegence
    two
    types of labels that comprise the concepts of intellegence
    e.g
    I.Q tests Test Results Free Market Interaction
    Social Interaction
    amount of personal wealth/money

    you will face seriouse contradictions in concepts of related examples

    look to historys examples of social status and placing of those who are now considered amoungst the true "GiniS"

    bloomin good luck to ya!

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    by the term smart i assume you infer one who is of a higher degree of intellect than others
    those type of people are different in more ways than most would consider or care to recognise
     
    ripleofdeath, Dec 3, 2003
    #4
  8. ripleofdeath

    ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

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    side note
    just because someone chooses to do something or chooses not to do something
    does that infer any form of intellegence greater or les than someone else
    and if so in what way does it specificly define it
    will you have a consistant result definative of either equative summery
    (yes i know the answer but it is you who is supposed to be learning

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    )
     
    ripleofdeath, Dec 3, 2003
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  9. cosmictraveler

    cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Smart people have the ability to be able to adapt to their surroundings and make the best use of what they have around them. A wise person knows who the smart people are. Wisdom comes through knowledge as does being smart only the wise don't take advantage of others and aren't greedy.
     
    cosmictraveler, Dec 3, 2003
    #6
  10. Yes

    Yes Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe some personal traits are evidence of intelligence, like having an open mind, being creative, constructive etc.
    If one aspires to diverge from the standard definition as having mathemathical and logical skills.
     
    Yes, Dec 3, 2003
    #7
  11. Mucker

    Mucker Great View! Registered Senior Member

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    Ripleofdeath what are you on about??

    Tell me your views on sex abuse!

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    Last edited: Dec 3, 2003
    Mucker, Dec 3, 2003
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  12. Craig Smith

    Craig Smith Banned Banned

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    Intelligence in my view is the ability to balance many semi-paradoxical factors and to find multiple combinations in which they form a functional whole. Anything more detailed than that is a dissertation in itself.
     
    Craig Smith, Dec 3, 2003
    #9
  13. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Definition of intelligence

    I think that most academic definitions of intelligence focus on the ability to reason. This is borne out by the content of most IQ tests. There are several different areas of thought in which reasoning is practiced, for example mathematical, linguistic, pure Boolean logic, and spatial relationships (those stacks of cubes where you're supposed to figure out how they would look from behind). I'm positive that there's a reasoning vector in music as well, but music is so non-verbal and I don't think I can expound on this opinion very articulately. Certainly the other arts as well, and there are lots of others that I don't know about.

    In my opinion, the term "intelligence" ought to also include the ability to learn. IQ tests can't test that because they never come back two years later to see whether your score has increased.

    It seems to me that intelligence really must also take into account what we'd now call "processor speed." If an IQ test had no time limit and two people were both able to get all but one answer right, I would judge the one who finished earlier to be more intelligent.

    "Smart" is a broader term, which as far as I know doesn't really have an academic definition. To me, smartness includes not just intelligence but also judgment and wisdom. I've known plenty of people who can write brilliant, bug-free computer code and are whizzes at puzzles, yet they can't understand that being rude to people they don't respect limits their opportunities to do more things they enjoy in the future. These people are intelligent but have poor judgment and little wisdom and I'd hesitate to call them "smart."
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Dec 4, 2003
    #10
  14. cthulhus slave

    cthulhus slave evil servant Registered Senior Member

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    to me a smart person would be one who regaurdless of factual knowledge is capable of rising above his fellow humans to the extant that humans have risen above nature.
    that is of course ridiculously vauge, but you must be so when dealing with such a broad term.
    you could achieve 'smartness' by this definition by being keenly aware of human sychology and thus manipulating your fellow man.
    or by havign an acute sence of logoc so the things wich seam paridoxical to most are perfectly comprehensible to you.
    or by simply being able to find opurtunities wear others do not.

    however i often find that creativity and smartness are quite diferant. you can be able to paint a portrait that expresses everything to everyone, yet still be a fool.
     
    cthulhus slave, Dec 4, 2003
    #11
  15. Mucker

    Mucker Great View! Registered Senior Member

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    So you will not answer ripleofdeath? Is that because you find it hard to talk about the topic in question, or is it because I am not granting you your 'god given right' to free-will?

    Perhaps you think people should not discuss such things, but I would say the only way to teach future generations about such a thing is to talk about it. Or perhaps you disagree about such issues being public. However you saw no problem during one of my first lectures in college in standing in front of the class and talking about PAEDOPHILES! Shall we discuss PAEDOPHILES instead then? Or shall we discuss macrosociology that looks on down on the world instead?

    I have engaged discussions here about PAEDOPHILES, and about topics of SEXUAL ABUSE, however when I did so you wrote that I was 'delusional'. I also had the distasteful experience of a work colleague touching my penis through my trousers when I walked past him, because I had engaged in these discussions. So either you want to talk about PAEDOPHILES and related topics publicly, or you don't.

    So as a teacher you encourage others to discuss such topics publicly, yet you call them delusional when they do so, and there are also repercusions for such things. Perhaps that dread-locked dick touched my penis because I put a smiley face instead of a big grin after a PAEDOPHILE joke, however should I encourage jokes about SEXUAL ABUSE on sciforums, or should I just put an acknowledging 'smiley'.

    So what is your opinion on these matters? I am looking forward to the reply because I know you are very opinionated, and I am fortunate enough to know how empty headed you really are.

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    Mucker, Dec 4, 2003
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  16. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    OOOOOOOOOOK.. someone has issues. Mucker, I do apologise for ermmm making fun of your life in another post you started on here, but I think I mentioned therapy in that post and I meant THAT seriously. I think you really do need it

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    ...

    And what does this have to do with the topic of this thread

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    ? I don't blame ripple for not answering you... and the word stalking is coming to mind at the moment after I read what you wrote in this thread.



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    Bells, Dec 4, 2003
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  17. Mucker

    Mucker Great View! Registered Senior Member

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    What because I am talking about issues RipleofDeath brings up?!!! SHE brought it up, and I am talking about it! Don't blame me for it. I am quite happy to discuss any other issues posters are interested in, and I do so, however Ripleofdeath is interested in these things, so I am discussing them with her!

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    Mucker, Dec 4, 2003
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  18. ripleofdeath

    ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

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    ohhhhh kaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy
    uuummmmmmmmm
    welllllllllllllll

    maybe you could remind me of which thread you are refering to so i can read it and know what you are talking about
    and then post in that thread as going soo far off topic in this one in such a way is liable to get it closed as it swings to what sounds like a flame thing
    you could have just PMed me if you wanted and drawn my attention to a particular thread

    i tend to stop reading threads as the swing off topic so maybe
    that is why i have no idea what you are talking about

    and just to keep it all nice and civil minded in an open and honest format
    (what ever value you may wish to place in that)
    i am not a "she"
    as you seem to be keen to label me witha gender it does not realy bother me which one you choose
    however i am born of the male gender
    allow that to fashion your beliefs as you will

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    ripleofdeath, Dec 4, 2003
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  19. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Ermm ripple did not bring it up, you did. And I'm still trying to see how this relates to the topic at hand?

    Now back to said topic...

    Intelligence or the notion of being smart is not just based on IQ or school grades, but it encompasses all of one's experiences in life. Just because someone has a low IQ or does not get good grades does not mean that they aren't intelligent. They could be smart in other areas, such as they may be more artistic or be better at, lets say, mechanics. Intelligence should encompass all of one's experience and not just the grades they get or IQ scores. I know of many people who never got high grades in school but are extremelly intelligent. I know others who dropped out of school early and then became artists who paint or draw pieces of great and distinct beauty. Others studied literature at their own leisure and can discuss all aspects of literature without fault, yet they dropped out of school early.

    One cannot be truly intelligent if they do not understand their actions in life and the consequences of those actions. Being booksmart doesn't really come into it. Intelligence comes in all forms and it does not just mean that one gets good grades.



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    Bells, Dec 4, 2003
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  20. ripleofdeath

    ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

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    good point Belle

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    one thing that always made me cringe at the schooling system is that there is a distinct patern of behaviour with higher level intellegence children

    it is a two fold problem however as these things manifest in similar ways to the uneducated viewer/teacher/parent

    what we should see hopefully soon before too many children are medicated into retardation is that A.D.D and cross related behaviour paterns are mearly symptomatic in there encountered expresion
    consequently time factors are considered most prevalent for the parents and teachers rather than quality diagnosis and care/therapy for the child

    once the child displays the behavioural problems the incedent of learning interuption has already occured so theraputic methods must be applied
    unfortunately most of those in the related positions and organisations and departments are not skilled enough to deal with it

    i could go on but maybe i will write a book
    maybe it wont get published so why bother
    it seems the mechanism of society does not yet have avenues to identify and nurture the nature of the higher intellegence of the child unless it is a maths equation or a spelling test
    the circle is now complete .. shall i copy and paste your post on the end of mine now

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    hehe

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    ripleofdeath, Dec 4, 2003
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  21. ripleofdeath

    ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

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    #side note RE: Mucker
    only if you were studying a doctorate in pedia-behavioural-psychology
    otherwise
    i would not bother to discuss any seriouse thoughts on child abuse with you in any form
    as you seem to be unable to maintain a level form of discusion
    reActionary flame wars on child abuse would have to be a rather
    sado masacistic past time if ever i could think of one
    Trolling to look for targets for your rage is not a game i wish to play in either!
    maybe you just had a bad day at school?

    QUOTE
    Mucker
    However you saw no problem during one of my first lectures in college in standing in front of the class and talking about PAEDOPHILES
    ---
    i have not lectured at any college about child abuse
     
    ripleofdeath, Dec 4, 2003
    #18
  22. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Ripleofdeath

    When I was in high school, in the days before so called ADD was the manner of explaining behaviour in children (many years ago lol), there was this boy in my class who used to misbehave to the point of reducing some of the teacher to tears. He used to get straight A's all on his tests and exams but his behaviour was considered to be way beyond the norm. Now if this had been today, he would have been medicated straight away. However back then, such measures were not even considered and weren't really available as they are today. Upon further investigation by one of the teachers, it was discovered that this boy was just bored in the class and he was bored because he found the work too easy. He never misbehaved in english and history based subjects, but he always drove the teachers mad in maths and science based subjects. After consulting a child psychologist, they decided to move this boy up to a higher grade for science and maths. This boy thrived and he ended up beating the students in those classes as well. In the end he ended up attending university classes in science and maths while he was only in high school. Reason for his misbehaving was because he was bored with the class and his only way of dealing with it was to act out in class. And he was not so good in english or history, and therefore he didn't misbehave in these classes because he found them to be a struggle.

    Unfortunately today, we are seeing many students being as you said so yourself, drugged into a state of retardation. It is sad that the true reason for a child's behaviour is not studied but repressed. While there may be some children out there who may suffer from what is today defined as ADD, the majority of these children most probably have another problem (such as being bored with the class) and it is all clumped together under the umbrella of ADD.

    And you are quite correct when you stated that intelligence today is measured by maths and english grades. A few schools here in Australia have started to recognise that some students are smarter in other aspects such as the Arts and are encouraged to forther develop those skills. I was lucky to attend one of these schools (long long ago lol) and while my grades in the standard subjects were very good, I showed slightly greater aptitude towards the arts and I was encouraged by my teachers to further develop these skills while maintaining my grades in the standard subjects.


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    Bells, Dec 4, 2003
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  23. Mucker

    Mucker Great View! Registered Senior Member

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    Okay, wrong person.

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    Yeah well if you had half a brain you would see that I don't go around looking for targets, rather I am only giving you what you have given to me.

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    On with the thread.
     
    Mucker, Dec 4, 2003
    #20
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