Premise:

"Existance is essentially unconditional in nature. It is only our intellectual/emotional conditioning that creates a state of conditionality."

Is unconditional love an unrealistic Ideal?

Is a state of self centred, self inspired uncondionality possible?

I used to hold to the view that unconditionality was an impossible ideal but in terms of self centredness I now believe otherwise.

We do things because they give us pleasure being the basic premise. We please others because we find it pleasing to ourselves that we should.

A "pastor" will give his time and charity because it pleases him to do so. Is his act one of selfishness or compassion?

When a person says that they gives a gift with out condition are they?

I think you are right, I've thought about that too.

But...

I guess if you give money to someone in Africa without knowing who it is, then you've given it unconditionally - if no one knows you gave it except you. Your feeling is a part of you and shouldn't be a condition, you felt it to be right because it was right and you felt it because you wanted to give money in the first place, thus your will was the first condition, then the feeling, then the action.

At least I think so, since the feeling had to start for a reason, that reason should be your will, to either make yourself do something (if you have a good feeling) or don't do something (if you have a bad feeling). I guess we are slaves under our will.

I think that our feelings come because we try to see the effect of something we plan to do. So it's allways up to you, you can't blame it on your feelings if you've done something bad, if you had a bad feeling then it's up to you to take the appropriate action in the feeling.

If you do something that had a good feeling and it leads to a bad thing, then you won't have a good feeling of that anymore, so let the feelings guide you, but don't let them drive you - you are in control - the feelings aren't, they tell you if you should or shouldn't do a certain thing.

If someone does something for his own pleasure that has the effect of giving other's pleasure then I think it's allright - or if it leads to good things.

If someone does something for his own pleasure that has the effect of giving other's pleasure then I think it's allright - or if it leads to good things.
and therefore good feelings....

Got it! ha ha :)

I really don't understand what any of ya'll are talking about but, if someone was to give their time to help others, and this makes him feel good then it is infact selfish. But what may be limiting your thinking is the idea that selfishness is bad, even though this is rarily so.

Everything we do is selfish. If it gives us pleasure and we continue doing it it is because it feels good to us and therefore we need to persue it. If the consequences of this actoin cause's other to feel good or to help others then that is only an after effect. The fact that your actions help others does not stray away from the fact that you originally started doing this because you wanted to make yourself feel good, which ultimetly makes your actions selfish.

Now if you did this even when it felt bad to you, then your still being selfish. Maybe the bad feeling gives you pleasure which makes your persue it, I don't know.

P.S sry for the lack of words, selfish was the only word i could think up of the moment :bugeye:

I agree Votorx, even if we are doing something that doesn't feel good it is for the future good feelings that we do it.

We may sacrifice one moment for another. And it is always selfish.

It sounds to me that you guys placed a negative judgement on the word selfish. But to me, being selfish is perfectly ok. It is ok to have things but it is what you do with those things. Being selfish doesn't mean that you keep everything for youself but wanting things in your life. In a way, we must all be selfish as we can only give others what we have. So have a little more money is ok, but whether you keep them all to yourself or share them with others, that defines who you are. Love yourself a little more, so you have more love to give to others.