Hi everyone, I have started this thread because I'm very interested in people's opions on this subject.
During the majority of the cold war, who had the better technology? the usa or the ussr? who achieved the most? who had the best scientists?
My personal opionon is that the ussr was the better country, most americans have been too brainwashed by the media and are too patriotic to admit or even realise that the ussr was ahead, but if you read about it and look at the facts, it appears the ussr was well in front of the americans most of the time.
The most amazing feat of the ussr, I think anyway, is the way they got rocket technology. After ww2, the usa took all the german scientists who were working on rockets, took them back to the usa to get their own rocket production going and destroyed the German factories that had anything to do with rockets. The russians came through, gathered bits of RUBBLE from the destroyed factories and just from that, using their OWN scientists without any help managed to get a rocket program of their own going and in a few years was ahead of the USA's.
It was also amazing that they got nukes as quick as they did, also exclusively with their own scientists.
Let the discussion begin...

best technology ?was it really important ?
i´d say the most effective technology was important !

i dont know much about russians tech. except they did have some preaty funky stuff, most info i have read has been about US/EU tech and documentaries has been slighty biased :).

side note, i seem to remember the russians infiltrated part of the US nuclear program, they user some snazy encryption to send the information back to rusion via. telegram, the code it self was only broken when they forgot to chance something.
Damn i wish i could remember how the code was made.

Rambo, your statement regarding the rockets is incorrect. When the German scientists realized that the war was about to be over, they discussed their options. Two main ideas emerged. Go to the United States, or go to the Soviet Union.

The United States did not have a rocket program at that time. They offered any German scientist that defected after the war sanctuary, money, and a place to live and continue the research. Most of those that went to the United States went to Alabama.

The Soviet Union had a rocket program, and a lot of scientists didn't want to take the risk of going to the United States and seeing no rocket program emerge, so they went to the U.S.S.R.

Roughly half went to the United States and half to the Soviet Union.

(I got this information from my boss, who was born in Germany and whose father was a Doctor at a university in Germany.)


Now your question is very, very vague. Too many topics to be discussed. Do you mean space flight? Well the Soviets had an edge, but the United States put the first man on the moon. Do you mean aircrafts? MiGs tend to be piece of shit planes compared to F-x planes. What about missile systems? I dunno, the U.S.S.R had the advantage of being able to move around their missiles. Navy? The U.S. definitely. Carriers, destroyers, frigates, subs. Subs are of course a discussion point. I have no idea.



You're asking the *most* advanced? Well then it is easy. The Americans. Why? Because they put a man on the moon and the Soviets did not. A higher technological feat.

Rambo, you already opened this thread (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22640) ...

Which had the best technology during most of the cold war ? Maybe USA... Not because of the space program (their only victory was the moon... while USSR was the first for satellites, animal in space, man in space, woman in space, man out of his spaceship, space station...) but according to our western propaganda, US were better in most of the technological domains.

well...who ever had better technology..it doesnt matter. the u.s still beat the soviets, you kind of need an economy to support technology.

you need economy to make some good inventions ?
so what about germany in ww2 ?

Originally posted by WasiGermany
you need economy to make some good inventions ?
so what about germany in ww2 ?

There were both a good economy and inventions... :bugeye:

There are pluses and minuses. The US had more sophisticated technology, but it was more expensive and maintenance heavy. The Soviet tech was less sophisticated, but was tougher and cheaper. A good example of this is a comparison of the M16(not M16A1) and the AK-47.

whats the idea behind the M and A in US weapons, its seem to be use in every thing from personal weapons to tanks.

does the T in eks. T-55 stand for tank.

I got this information from my boss, who was born in Germany and whose father was a Doctor at a university in Germany.)

i thought you were in college? :bugeye:

Co-op education... :)

Co-op education...

what is that exactly?

Originally posted by airavata
what is that exactly?

I had that option in HS...one week of school and then one week of job relating to something in the field you choose in HS;)

that'd be so cool..... not just sitting in a classroom and listening to some moron. dammit....why don't we have that here? :mad:

Originally posted by SG-N
There were both a good economy and inventions... :bugeye:


perhaps before the war ,but during the war we had no ressources !
we had no oil ,so we had to invent something else
we had no rubber ,so we had to invent something else
we had no steel ,so we had to invent something else


economy without this 3 important things ?
we had the infrastucture ,but we had no economy during the war !
perhaps it´s my mistake ;i think economy is about money ,and so i say here was no economy !

wasi

we had no oil ,so we had to invent something else
we had no rubber ,so we had to invent something else
we had no steel ,so we had to invent something else


So what did you invent ?


perhaps before the war ,but during the war we had no ressources !


Did you not have relations with friendly states that could provide you resources during the war ?

jerrek

Roughly half went to the United States and half to the Soviet Union.


Not to make any rhetorical point , but does anyone have some decent sources for what happened to the Jewish scientists ? Its a fact the Jewish intellectuals in Germany were quite present and influential . There must have been quite alot of Jewish scientists that offered intelligence on some level of use for not only for the Nazi's but after the war for USA and USSR . Can anybody provide some solid information on this issue ?

anyways I go with Jerrek on :
Well then it is easy. The Americans. Why? Because they put a man on the moon and the Soviets did not. A higher technological feat.
, but just far as Nasa-technology (space) goes , technology would be something that ranges on multiple areas , and I dont know how advanced both parties were on all areas .

Sg-N

Maybe USA... Not because of the space program (their only victory was the moon... while USSR was the first for satellites, animal in space, man in space, woman in space, man out of his spaceship, space station...)


I dont think such a conclusion is decided on technological achievements not weither its a man woman or animal and if they get out or not . The moon was not the "only" victory , it is victory when determined who is more advanced or best at its technology .

Originally posted by Allahs_Mathematics
So what did you invent ?


sorry allah ,i don´t really know what they used as oil(i know ,it came too late and was too difficult)
i know that they made rubber from hairs
i know that they built fine planes (completly made from wood,not steel ;was a good concept)


Did you not have relations with friendly states that could provide you resources during the war ?

yeah sure we had relations to friendly states ,but no one could give us the needed ressources .

ps :you are right with "jews with influence" ;hitler allowed even a jew to win a medal for germany when olympia was here

The Soviet Union unlike the United States felt like she was behind the US in terms of tech. All major Soviet war planes were in response to the US, like the MiG-25 was designed becasue of the Valkerie, and the SR-71. Was this wise yes, but in the term no. The Soviets only responded and hardly made a effort to advance over the US. But the USSR was realistic moreso than the US, for instance instead of haeving labour intensive carriers in which US fighters would be shot down against the best Soviet SAM's , thus the carrier would lose most of it's value. The Soviets instead invested in the massive Oscar class subs, and the Kirov monster ships, both carried the massive SS-19 "Shipwreck" missiles that would easily evade US defences and destory a carrier. I also must give credit to the Russians for the Shkval torpedo which can reach 350km/h, and the invincible Sunburns. American cockiness was a big problem in the sense "tech over numbers". WWII showed us that dosen't work, especially against the USSR. The massive size of the USSR would make it ever so hard for US bombers to attack. The Czech supposedly made a anti-Stealth radar, if the USSR lasted would surely be in her inventory. The War with the cold war fighters would a tit for tat battle, to be only scored with MAD.

well russia still got owned by the u.s.

The Soviet Union unlike the United States felt like she was behind the US in terms of tech.
This is not true in all cases, you can't use aircraft technology to judge all of the ussr's tech. The usa had many technologies that were in response to the ussr's, too. Also, reading that quote again doesn't really make much sense, how could the US feel like she's behind the US in any way?

you can't use aircraft technology to judge all of the ussr's tech

I didn't I provided clear examples from the Soviet navy.

The usa had many technologies that were in response to the ussr's, too.

Kay please names some I know they exist just name some. ;)

This is not true in all cases, you can't use aircraft technology to judge all of the ussr's tech.
True - but aerospace tech tells a similar tale - air superiority fighters tended to be the US's forte, but the USSR has superior rockets and they have a whole area of aerospace (WIG craft) that the US never pursued, looking at hovercraft instead.

Well the Soviets had an edge, but the United States put the first man on the moon.
They had more than just an edge, they did everything before the US except the moon landing, and even now it isn't certain that the US actually went to the moon, but let's stick to the topic and not have the next page arguing about whether we went to the moon or not...
Navy? The U.S. definitely.
I disagree, the Russian Typhoon class submarines were far superior to anything the US ever made and since their creation, the US has been trying to keep track of them under the ice way up north. As far as I know the Russian cruisers were also better than anything the american's had
Do you mean aircrafts? MiGs tend to be piece of shit planes compared to F-x planes.
hmm maybe you have a point here, but if the ussr ever fully completed the mig 39s it'd be a different story. Also, the Russian choppers were always superior to the American's and this is also a good example for my earlier point against nico, the American's had to respond to the new Russian choppers
The russians also usually invented technology to support ground troops more than anything else and weapons (particularly tanks) were built to be more offensive than defensive.

Kay please names some I know they exist just name some.
I can't think of many right now but I remember seeing a table like thing that showed the different technologies and who invented them first, and how long it took for the other side to invent it.
Ones I remember the ussr invented first: Nuclear missiles that could be launched from the ussr to the usa, attack helicopters, Subs that could fire nuclear missiles, military hovercrafts (I think), and a design (can't remember what it's called) that the americans copied after the cold war that allowed a land vehicle or hovercraft (providing it had this special type of wing) to travel much faster and using less fuel, the wings were similar to aeroplane wings and somehow trapped the air between the ground and the wing can't remember but it was something like that. Apart from those I can't remember the others but I do remember it being about half the time the ussr invented it first so your point about the ussr always being behind and constantly responding to the us is incorrect.
Another thing I feel I should mention is that now it has been shown that the usa (cia I think) killed some russian cosmonauts/scientists (made it look like accident etc.) the reason it is not well known that this happened is because the us government isn't too proud of it, and that idiot Rumsveld was right in the middle of it so recently it has been covered up again. Oh and while I'm on the subject, it was rumsveld who gave most of the money and weapons to suddam hussein during the iran/iraq war. The cia also gave the taliban weapons
and training during the cold war but I'm not sure if rumsveld had anything to do with that. Oh and I might just add, without this training bin laden wouldn't have been able to pull off sept. 11:eek: and without the weapons supplied to Hussein the Gulf war would never have happened and we wouldn't have the problems we have now with Iraq

Ones I remember the ussr invented first: Nuclear missiles that could be launched from the ussr to the usa

ICBM's, I think so.

attack helicopters

The first true attack helicopter was the American Cobra.

Subs that could fire nuclear missiles

The Golf class, I think so as well.

military hovercrafts (I think)

MAybe not the Brits invented the Hovercraft.


design (can't remember what it's called) that the americans copied after the cold war that allowed a land vehicle or hovercraft (providing it had this special type of wing) to travel much faster and using less fuel, the wings were similar to aeroplane wings and somehow trapped the air between the ground and the wing can't remember but it was something like that.

You mean to say the Ekranoplan?

http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news002/news055.htm

Another thing I feel I should mention is that now it has been shown that the usa

Already that is another post!

a design (can't remember what it's called) that the americans copied after the cold war that allowed a land vehicle or hovercraft (providing it had this special type of wing) to travel much faster and using less fuel, the wings were similar to aeroplane wings and somehow trapped the air between the ground and the wing can't remember but it was something like that.
It's called a Wing-In-Ground-effect craft, and the wings don't quite work that way, they depend on an aerodynamic effect called ground effect that lowers the stall speed of a wing when in proximity to a large flat plane (mathematical plane, not aero plane :D ) - an effect that's caused one or two accidents in normal aircraft, but which can provide serious benefits when understood. (Taking off on grass runways for example).
But this is all digression...

Already that is another post!
lol I know, I just get carried away sometimes:p

The first true attack helicopter was the American Cobra.
well if you don't call a Hind an attack helicopter, I don't know what you do
Yes the ekranoplan is what I meant

well if you don't call a Hind an attack helicopter, I don't know what you do

The Cobra was made in 1967 the Hind came into production in the 70's. So the Cobra was the first.

The Hind D fuselage features nose modification with tandem bubble canopies, and a chin-mounted turret. Mi24D (Hind-D) is significantly re-designed version of the Mi-24A. It entered service in 1976

The AH-1G Cobra [or Snake] was first deployed to Vietnam in September 1967. The Cobra's primary mission was to give fire support to troop carrying Hueys.

The Cobra was made in 1968 the Hind came into production in the 70's. So the Cobra was the first.
lol ok, well that shut me up:D

Air-to-air claims during Ethiopian/Eritrean Conflicts in 1999 - 2000

Date Comments

May 16, 2000 Ethiopian Sukhoi Su-27 downs an Eritrean Mig-29.
Source: via Jonathan Kyzer.

February 25, 1999 Ethiopian Sukhoi Su-27 downs an Eritrean Mig-29. Pilot of Ethiopian Su-27 reported to be Russian/Ukrainian mercenary.

February 26, 1999 Ethiopian Sukhoi Su-27 downs an Eritrean Mig-29. Pilot of Ethiopian Su-27 reported to be Russian/Ukrainian mercenary.

Sources: "Stern" magazine, March 4, 1999 issue via Zamir Zorcec

Croatian Newspaper "Vjesnik" via Damir Zorcec



:D so the SU-27 has reported some kills.

go the mercenaries...

my nazi scientists are better than yours!

Thats basically what its all about...

By their own admission(stalin), the russians had far inferior technology. So they sent their pretty spies out and about and stole some stuff...A lot of stuff...

Lol, and some stuff they didnt even have to steal, the idiot british gave over a wonderful brand spanking new airplane engine perfect for the Mig-21 to make it the best early jet fighter until the Sabre-series.

Kirov cruisers are just as vulnerable to missiles as a carrier, CIWS on escort ships could deal with inbound missiles easily...The Russian quantity over quality would have made a difference in any war, but in the end, it all comes down to the nukes...THe US had far more(in the most heightened part) and far more accurate missiles than the soviets, though that doesnt necessarily mean the US would win a nuclear war =)

oh also, a good way to look at who's technology was better, is to look for differences in the technology to do the same thing, what i mean is, ever see the russian space "orbiter?" Enuff said. Go find a picture, conversation over! =)

THe US had far more(in the most heightened part) and far more accurate missiles than the soviets, though that doesnt necessarily mean the US would win a nuclear war =)

In a nuclear war there are no winners...

oh and nico I remembered something else the soviets had first, an early warning system. Shit I've gotta find that book again, it was great

So they sent their pretty spies out and about and stole some stuff...A lot of stuff...
Maybe so, but that doesn't mean they were inferior. To have spies so superior and succesful is as good as a technology in itself, the US should have been able to find the spies if it was so superior. It's no secret the KGB was far superior to the CIA.
The Russian quantity over quality would have made a difference in any war
there is a russian saying, translated into english means "quantity is a quality in itself"

oh also, a good way to look at who's technology was better, is to look for differences in the technology to do the same thing, what i mean is, ever see the russian space "orbiter?" Enuff said. Go find a picture, conversation over! =)
Like I've said before, you can't judge all of a country's technologies from just one
if you could, it would be easy to prove the usa is the crappest country in the world, just judge it from the president :p

oh also, a good way to look at who's technology was better, is to look for differences in the technology to do the same thing, what i mean is, ever see the russian space "orbiter?" Enuff said. Go find a picture, conversation over! =)Like I've said before, you can't judge all of a country's technologies from just one
And if you tried, the US would be a long way behind the USSR in rockets.
Sorry guys, but when it comes to heavy-lift capacity, or safety records, or even just basic good engineering practise, the USSR is years ahead of the US program - up until the funding was cut at any rate.
Note for example, the Eureka rocket, now being bought by the US because it's the best on the market - and it dates from the early 70's, being a component of the N1 rocket. The US on the other hand, has the (from an engineer's perspective) worst boondoggle of an orbiter, a minimal capacity for reliable launches and a pitiful heavy-lift capacity given what you *used* to have with the Saturn V.

try to keep in mind, everyone, that throughout your lives you've been receiving a pro USA bias and an anti USSR one.

I agree with you Rambo, so I can NOW (2000+) reply to :
Originally posted by Allahs_Mathematics I dont think such a conclusion is decided on technological achievements not weither its a man woman or animal and if they get out or not . The moon was not the "only" victory , it is victory when determined who is more advanced or best at its technology .
The USSR space technology was the most advanced one ! Now ? I don't know... Each "continent" has a speciality (NASA, Russia and ESA)

THe US had far more(in the most heightened part) and far more accurate missiles than the soviets, though that doesnt necessarily mean the US would win a nuclear war =)

With enough nukes to destroy the world several times over between them, would accuracy really have mattered if it had come to nuclear war? What would be the point in blowing money on improving something unnecessary?

.

I dont think such a conclusion is decided on technological achievements not weither its a man woman or animal and if they get out or not . The moon was not the "only" victory , it is victory when determined who is more advanced or best at its technology .
at the time, sputnik was just as good a technological achievement as the moon landing (if it happened), getting the first man into space was the same, as was the Mir space station (which I think was a better technological achievement than the "moon landing" anyway), getting the first man outside of a space ship, getting the first animal into space, the list of the ussr's achievements in space before the usa's goes on.

The Soviets obviously were much more focused on armaments than the US, they had dozens of "secret" cities, mainly there to do some major R&D for the Soviet Government. They kept on developing everything they weren't supposed too, ie Bio weapons, and they deployed IRBM's in Europe. But this conversation in the end of the day is fruitless a nuke war would result and we're all done. A war btwn the US and the USSR in my view would have never happened. And I believe the Soviets had more nukes than the US I know in 1990 or so they had 29,000 does anybody know about the US?

well the u.s.a flew a lot of spy missions over russia wit u2, they only could shoot down 1, since they were so fast and russsian jets couldnt match up with them.

Not "fast" edgar, "high".

The USSR had the best technology, but what do you expect when military spending was the overwhelming priority. The Soviet Union was however almost a third world country in every other area because so little resources were left over from the arms race.