1) A) USA says Iraq should be a responsible member of the international community. B) USA ignores both Iraq's invitation for weapons inspections, and the UN's plans, and continues to build a military presence in the Gulf area with the intention of invading, without consideration of the words or feelings of the international community. Basically, it's doing exactly what it told Iraq not to do. 2) A) USA points to Iraq's past as reason why Iraq can not be trusted. For example chemical weapons use. B) USA has used chemical weapons. For example, Agent Orange. I don't need to mention again all the other things the USA has done. 3) A) USA has a problem with bio/chemical weapons. B) No evidence is found for such weapons. C) Rather than claim something else nasty exists, and be proven wrong again, the USA says that Iraq MIGHT some day develop nukes. Odd, since the USA already HAS nukes. Meaning... Well, basically, the USA has absolutely no claim on any moral high ground in any of this. Everything they've used as a pretext so far in their build-up to mid-term elections (oops, I mean invading Iraq) has no substance. So why the military build up? In the USA, election campaigns are often funded by large corporations which have defence contract companies. These companies give money to campaigns. When a politician those companies supported gets into power, they return the favour by having a war now and then, to justify government spending and such. The mid-term elections are the height of this trade. Also... The USA uses 25% of the world's oil, and produces only 3%. Iraq produces 10%. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but it might be worth considering. What do I want? I would like the USA government to be open and honest and say "We want this to justify our military spending and to continue the practice of defence-contractor campaign contributions". Since I personally dislike Saddam Hussein, I would find such an approach far preferable to the bollocks they are currently spewing.
Lest you think me entirely anti-USA... I did year 12 high school with a guy from Afghanistan, in 1994. This was during the rise of the Taliban. He had been studying law there, but when those nutters popped up, studying law became illegal. Rather than only ever being allowed to study their whacky version of the Koran, he brought his family to Australia. After completing year 12 here he intended to become a lawyer, then hopefully go back and help his own country some day. This was one smart guy, and he was willing to devote his entire life to helping law, order, and freedom in his country. I lost contact with the guy, but I hope he is getting what he wanted now. This chap told me all sorts of horror stories about the Taliban, and about his country even before them. The place was a crap-hole. Also my own observations led me to agree with him. Basically, Afghanistan needed an outside force to come in and change everything. The UN were being a pack of sissies, so I'm very glad the USA did it. Now, I am studying with a chap from Iraq, who likewise tells me about his country. I find someone with first-hand experience of the situation a far more reliable source than CNN or the biased USA state department. After telling me about the many problems whihc have sprung up in Iraq since Saddam came to power, he ended it with "Basically, anyone who could get out, got out. That's why I'm here." Saddam is ruining Iraq. He got into power by killing his political opponents. The entire country's resources are devoted to keeping him alive and safe. I mean, a disproportionate amount of the country's resources go directly to him; not enough goes to keeping the people alive and healthy and educated and such. It's not Iraq for the Iraqis, it's Iraq for Saddam. So, I don't like Saddam. Buty I don't like the idea of the USA bombing the innocent civilians of Baghdad again either. The least the USA could do, if they intend to do something, is be honest about why.
Oh yes, I agree Saddam needs his nuts kicked in. I would prefer that it was one guy with a rifle. However, Saddam has the entire resources of a country devoted to not letting that happen. So I expect the only effective way to remove him is with a full-scale invasion, during which, I would also expect, many of the defending side would simply drop their guns or stand aside. At least they might do that IF they know it's a full-scale invasion. If it is simply another USA desert rampage like before, then standing aside will get them all shot as soon as things are back to normal again. So either an interfering outside force must do the job properly and absolutely occupy Iraq, or people should stay out of it completely. A half-arsed war will just get people killed. Do I think the USA should be the one to do it? I don't really care who does it, as long as it is done properly and without hypocrisy. Whichever force does this should give honest reasons, set clear goals (absolute occupation), and then let their military commanders do the job with no interference from civilian politicians.
Few questions for you, Is it worth killing thousands Iraqis? for one person? or is it worth killing hundreds of americans? You think America is really thinking about people of Iraq?? Honestly? Do you really think that mighty super power is going to save the poor Iraqis? If that was the case then they should have not put horrible sancations which causes 5000 plus death of Iraqi children still. Now use your brain and tell me if usa is really going to save the Iraqi people or to save USA. let me remind you that there no long range missiles in Iraq's arsenal. Zero. Nothing can reach USA and nothing he has can reach Europe. Neither there are any proves that they were involve with Alqada. My second question. If and it is a big IF, we really are going to save Iraqi people, then why don't we go and save Chechens? Then Georgians? then People in Africa? then Kashmiris? then attack china since they are oppress communist regime as well and then attack Iran and the list goes on. Please use your brain and explain me above. Or why don't USA admit that all they want is free and secure supply of oil and they going to kill millions for that if they need to. Simple is that. I don't see anything wrong in admiting that. Just stop lying.
Okay, say Bushy goes on national TV - or better yet - CNN (my favePlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) Anyhoo, hes on TV with the whole watching and he says this statement: "Oh yes, I agree Saddam needs his nuts kicked in. I would prefer that it was one guy with a rifle. However, Saddam has the entire resources of a country devoted to not letting that happen. So I expect the only effective way to remove him is with a full-scale invasion, during which, I would also expect, many of the defending side would simply drop their guns or stand aside. At least they might do that IF they know it's a full-scale invasion. If it is simply another USA desert rampage like before, then standing aside will get them all shot as soon as things are back to normal again. So either an interfering outside force must do the job properly and absolutely occupy Iraq, or people should stay out of it completely. A half-arsed war will just get people killed." And it is a good statement, but we have to face the facts - we live in a society that is based on false pretense. I dont think the world would too highly if we were so honest. Sad isnt it...
skywalker, Dude, chill on the crack okay. I was asking an honest opinion so I can see where he is coming from. I am AGAINST a war with Iraq. I do believe Ive stated that before. I just hate when people keep pointing their fingers at the US saying "bad, bad, bad" when they are failing to accept that every country has their own problems.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Now leave me alonePlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Well I didn't show any signs of anger or aggressive behaviourPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! . I was pretty chilled when I was writing that. Anyways, I asked a simple question too. You always seems to be supporting war with Iraq, you may not say in those words but you imply that in your posts that Iraq is terrorist state and usa needs to fight them etc etc. You still didn't answer what I asked but it is ok. And yes you are right no one should point fingers at other country, they all should look at their own country first. Oh and when I said stop lying, I meant for usa not for you. Thanks.
Neato! Oh, their on our list toPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And yes I do think Iraq is a terrorist state. Just like Yemen and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. I dont know any Australian or Mexican terroristsPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Edit: And sorry for all the silliness. I dont feel like using my brain todayPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Since I am from pakistan and i still would like to see a Pakistani terrorist as well.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please help me out. That just shows that how easy it is to manupilate american public. Play certian news on media for few weeks and there goes the public openion. I personaly think that if the public openion is US is just like what you have then Pakistan should stop helping americans and start kicking them out. Stop arresting all the alqda members and ask for 50million dollars for each soldier died in war against terrorism. Does it sound logical to you?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! . I am sure you will like it because if will add one more country for you to attack? Right Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Well very true. I agree with you. I personaly think that Australia is the best country in the world. Away from every thing and not involve in dirty oil politics, doesn't enjoy killing innocents like bush and his best friend tony blair.
Man, you've got the wrong idea about Australia. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Seriously, Australia seems to have this image of being a harmless little place. But our government has its fingers in everything. You know why we helped out in East Timor? Australia signed a deal that guaranteed us a portion of the oil and gas profits for the next 20 years or so. You know why we support the USA in their bombing runs overseas? Because they give us trade deals out of it. Then there's Z-Force from WW2, the SAS and CDs since then, all the things they've done. We're in on a space programme with Russia, and we have one of the largest electronic eavesdropping/watching systems in the world (Jindalee). Look at just about anything going on with the UN and various troublesome international relations, and somehow an Australian will be involved somewhere, usually in the background. Why? Our government and intelligence groups were built by the British, and started out as basically extra limbs of British policy. The British got our foot in the door, and it's been there ever since. Most people simply don't notice it because we walk quietly and carry a small sharp stick.
skywalker Look dude, no offense in what I was saying. I didnt mean to single out countries, Ill just say the whole Middle East. Better? And Im not dumb, I know the majority of the people are good-hearted, hard-working, trying to get through this life happier types of people, just like myself. But face it! Almost all recent terrorists attacks in the last decade have been by people from the Middle East. Since you are from Pakistan, and that is the country that was showed on the news where the citizens were running around cheering after the attacks, are the people you know angry at America? And why? Do you see us as ALL total idiots? And Im being honest here. I would like to know why all the hatred and what can be done to prevent more attacks in the futurePlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Well thank you very much Sky. Thanks for not getting upset and trying to explain. Okay... time to educate me more!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Is the reason why the US backs Isreal because they are a democracy? Is that why most of the middle east hates the US and Israel? When did this hate start? And be gentle on me for not knowing. I just started getting interested in world politics after the 9/11 attacks. I just dont get into politics in general and never found it interesting. Anyhoo, back to my questions. Why do we give Israel money? We just hand it over, no questions? And if we did give them money, why would it be our fault if they choose to spend that money on weapons.? Oh and thanks for the infoPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
How soon some try to rewrite history. I DEFINITELY recall Pakistanis cheering after the attacks. Also rioting against the government which was supporting the U.S. In fact, for a couple of weeks there was worry that the government might fall.
Wouldn't have thought that's the key point. The US also backs Saudi Arabia (far from democratic), Egypt (less so, but hardly a democracy) and opposes Iran (probably the most democratic country in the region, though I concede far from ideal). Lack of consistency suggests something else drives policy. Hate because Israel is a democracy? No, I wouldn't say so. Middle East countries do not hate France or Germany or Spain or Mexico. All democracies. The list could go on. There's another reason, which feeds into your other question - When did this hate start? Well, against Israel I'd say 1948 - wehn the state came into existence on what had been Palestinian land for hundreds of years. For the US? Maybe 1967 when US backing really started to pick up. As far as Arabs are concerned they have got a rough deal out of all that has gone on. The missiles, bullets and tanks that continue to kill Palestinians on a daily basis have a 'made in the USA' tag slapped on them. They tend to make the connection. 1. Could go on forever here. Very complicated question. 2. It is the most sancrosanct yearly bill in Congress. NO ONE opposes aid to Israel. Imagine the millions in campaign contributions you'd lose! 3. Well, aid is given in military credits and cash. The US could, crazy idea, refuse to give them weaponry. They choose not to. The US does not sell weapons to Iran. Selling military equipment is an inately political gesture.
can you please prove your "bullshit" (I DEFINITELY recall Pakistanis cheering after the attacks ) Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!?. Second one is true (Also rioting against the government which was supporting the U.S)and there were riot all over muslim world. Simple is that. BUt you cannot prove your first part. Since you are lying. I remember watching news and there was a small group of palestanians not Pakistanis. Do you understand that they are two different countries or is it too hard? Now I am waiting for a news link where it shows that they were cheering and enjoying. I promise I will beleive you and withdraw my claim that they were not.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
