Guys, I feel that this is not being talked about enough on the forums. People need to understand that the Domestic Security Enhancement Act is a danger to American freedoms, and civil liberties. Let me break this down: Section 301-306, “Terrorist Identification Database” This section calls for the creation of a DNA database of all suspected terrorists on U.S. soil, including people who are possibly associated with terrorist groups, people who are possibly associated with possible terrorist groups, and your grandma. Section 312, “Appropriate Remedies with Respect to Law Enforcement Surveillance Activities” I LOVE how they pull this one off. This one basically calls for the elimination of all state law enforcement consent decrees that don't directly conflict with civil rights legislation. So in other words, if the Patriot Act II passes, the police will be able to spy on anyone they want. Section 405, “Presumption for Pretrial Detention in Cases Involving Terrorism" This where it gets a bit nutty. Basically any suspected terrorist can be held, forever, without bail and without a trial. Keep in mind section 301-306 "including people who are possibly associated with terrorist groups, people who are possibly associated with possible terrorist groups Meaning that if you give a dollar to the salvation army, and then they turn out to be a terrorist org, you can be arrested. And held, forever, WITHOUT TRIAL OR BAIL! Section 501, “Expatriation of Terrorists” I will let someone else explain this. I know that Tiassa, probably could explain this one better then I could. Care to take a stab at it? Look, this act cannot be passed. If it does, were all screwed, Im moving to Canada. It's over folks, bye bye freedoms. The worst part is that were just now finding out about this. It's being kept secret, shhh... And this is my link to support all this: http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp?ReportID=502&L1=10&L2=10&L3=0&L4=0&L5=0
does that last one mean that if they want you you are no longer a citizen, with a citizens rights????????Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
CounslerCoffee, I guess one of the good things about living in a very small country is that if the government ever tried to do anything like this they would be rolled out of parliament so fast. I do not understand how the press can be so silenced to not be running this story full steam, and the people aren't on the streets protesting. Let's hope this does not pass as if it does Australia and the UK will prolly try to pass something like it.
not a chance the senate for the first time ever is controled by labor, the greens and the democrats apsolutly NO chance of ANY of them passing something like that and if little johnny moved it the only result would be he would DEFINITLY lose the next election
This is the worrisome part, Richard.. Can you imagine anything like it being passed in the US a decade ago either? It's ok for you to say NZ would never do it.. but the truth of the matter is you don't know that. Neither does Australia, or the UK, even though we would prefer to think that our governments would always be more sensible than this. Coffee.. here is the question. What exactly can you or anyone else do to stop it? *edit - typo on Richard's name.
make sure that we protect our rights by taking care of our RESPONCABILITYS ie we VOTE and we take an interest its only apathy that lets this sort of thing pass
"Coffee.. here is the question. What exactly can you or anyone else do to stop it?" Like I said in another thread, email or send a letter to your Reps, Senators, the White House, and the media. Spam them if you have too, but they are around for a reason, and trust me, there are a lot of liberal people just like you guys around. There is plenty you can do. Posting on this forum about it isn't really doing anything, however.
Posting on this(or any) forums does at least as much good as writing to congresspeople. It spreads information that isn't widely available in the mainstream news and encourages people to take action. Politicians, despite the conventional wisdom, do not pay attention to letters from their constituents. They already know from polls how people feel about these issues, the fact that the minority who disagree are writing to them to let them know about it doesn't effect them in any way.
All this sounds like the "matters of security" in my country in the 60s. Ouyr ecopnomy was growing pretty fast, so the US said that our president was communist, so that they could come in and control our country through our army. They issued this kind of thing. Basically, people were being killed in the middle of the streets if they tryed to protest. Many were tortured. And you couldn't get out of your house since 6:00pm...Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I know it's no comfort, but I apologize to you as a US citizen. Hopefully more significantly, I am striving in whatever way I can to prevent such behavior on the part of my government in the future.
I do not understand how the press can be so silenced to not be running this story full steam, and the people aren't on the streets protesting. Let's hope this does not pass as if it does Australia and the UK will prolly try to pass something like it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well its already happening in the UK the USA has some catching up to do. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- anything like this they would be rolled out of parliament so fast. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- parliament already passed a bill,where the police or MI whatever can read any ones e-mails without a court order.
I say this with all seriousness. I will kill for freedom. I will not let this country become what George Orwell wrote about. I would become Goldberg.
I have mixed feelings about this in principle. If we had a DNA database of everybody, crime could be significantly reduced. We’d need a healthy checks and balances system in the administration of it, but we already take that risk as a nation and have well mitigated that risk through our Constitution. Re surveillance, it could well be that the public would be better off if it could be more easily done legally. Already every domestic email and phone conversation is searched for keywords by the NSA. I don’t see much complaint about that. Had the 9/11 team slipped up on the phone we could’ve met them at the Boston airport. Again, checks and balances. Being held indefinitely without access to counsel is bad, no question. I repeat: in principle.
odin, the monitoring of phone calls, faxes, e-mails, instant messages, etc., has been going on for well over a decade. But of course you mean when they monitor a specific group or person. But alas, that also went on before sep 11th without the need for a court order. The Marquis, the difference I see between New Zealand and the US government, is that the American government is so large and so out of control that the majority do not seem to know what the other is doing. Let's face it, the elected officials that we place our belief in as being our leaders are just puppets. Puppets because the risk can not be taken to disclose everything to a civilian that could be out of office within a short period of time, taking so many secrets with them. The true problem lays with those behind the curtain that pull the strings.
odin, the monitoring of phone calls, faxes, e-mails, instant messages, etc., has been going on for well over a decade. But of course you mean when they monitor a specific group or person. But alas, that also went on before sep 11th without the need for a court order. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes it did but it could not be used against you,as it was illegal. I used to live next door to a copper,from the what was called the heavy mob in the police,& he used to moan that they had the evidence but could not use it because it was illegal. This Gov has told the ISPs that they have to keep records of all e-mails for 6 years & the ISPs say it is not practical.We will have to see what happens!
Wasn't that one of the reasons for the end of the Roman Empire...?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!:bugeye:Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
ROTFL Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Doesn't your government spy on everyone anyway?
