US 'outrage' over Israeli claims (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5223940.stm)
The US state department has dismissed as "outrageous" a suggestion by Israel that it has been authorised by the world to continue bombing Lebanon.
And yet, it is Bush Administration that is speeding free of charge at the expense of the American tax payer GBU 28 Bunker Busting Bombs (http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/07/346090.html) , full of depleted uranium, to Israel to continue the slaughter of the Lebanese people. There is no real outrage , only a complicit agreement to look the other way while Israel destroys the Lebanese civilian infrastructure , which has so far killed 1,000+ non-combatant civilians .

Brian do you oppose imperialism in general, or just the US and Israel in particular?

And yet, it is Bush Administration that is speeding free of charge at the expense of the American tax payer GBU 28 Bunker Busting Bombs , full of depleted uranium, to Israel to continue the slaughter of the Lebanese people. There is no real outrage , only a complicit agreement to look the other way while Israel destroys the Lebanese civilian infrastructure , which has so far killed 1,000+ non-combatant civilians .

So Brian, where do you get the information that its full of DU?

From http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/gbu-28e.htm

New production would be for about 350 weapons. Development is slated to begin this fiscal year with a single contractor team. Production is expected to start in 2005. The B-2 and F-15E will remain the only launch platforms for the weapon. The Air Force has developed a new steel that is available for bidders to use. Called Eglin Steel (ES-1), it is a collaboration between the Air Force and National Forge, which builds the casing for the BLU-113. The largest ingots that can be made, current producer are 69 inch diameter. Current size ingots being made, current producer are 39 inch diameter. ES-1 alloy is weldable, as it is a "low carbon alloy" Penetrator wall thickness of 2 inches has been heat treated. Test Sections 4 inches thick have been evaluated, with excellent and consistent hardenability through wall. Among the candidate explosive fills is the AFX-757 used in the warhead of the Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile. The Air Force-developed fill produces more blast energy and is less likely to be set off in a fire than Tritonal. The current BLU-113/B contains about 600 lb. of Tritonal.

Eglin Steel is a high-performance, low-cost composition as a very viable candidate for the Guided Bomb Unit-28 pre-planned product improvement warhead case material. Eglin Steel is outstanding not only because it exhibits superior strength and toughness (the ability of the material to absorb energy without fracturing) to that of conventional penetrator materials that are currently used for warhead cases, but also because its cost is equal to or less than that of these traditional, lower-performance casing materials. In today’s environment, cost is an important factor for all military systems, and Eglin Steel will allow potential contractors to realize a reduction in their material cost estimates, while increasing the material performance necessary to ensure program success.

As usual you are WRONG. Your INDYMEDIA sight is WRONG. Bunkerbusters are designed to plow into the ground up to 100 ft and then go off to destroy bunkers. They are NOT designed to: "These horrific weapons can kill literally hundreds of people with one strike into an urban area." Bunker Busters are hardly controversial. They are nothing more than a regualar bomb that explodes deeper in the ground in order to destroy bunkers and other buried fortifications.

Now a MOAB would fit the bill of your INDYMEDIA site but Isreal is hardly dropping those.

Stick to your claims of Chemical Weapons.

Brian do you oppose imperialism in general
Of course , not just imperialism but racist/theological philosophies such as Zionism .
or just the US and Israel in particular?
Ah yeah , samcdkey is wondering as to what I am , Im getting ready to hear the old " Foley is a Communist Anti-American Anti-Semite/Neo-Nazi " chant .
So Brian, where do you get the information that its full of DU?
Its common Knowledge
Uranium Wars: The Pentagon Steps Up its Use of Radioactive Munitions (http://www.cursor.org/stories/uranium.htm)
The widely-used Lockheed Martin GBU-28 5,000 lb. 'bunker-buster' bomb with a BLU-109 penetrator head carried only by the Air Force's F-15E's and B-2s, contains 1.5 metric tons of depleted uranium, compared to only five kilograms in the 120 mm shell. According to the GBU-28 Bunker Buster animation on USA Today the warhead is "classified".6 The 30 mm PGU-14 armor-piercing cannon shell contains 4,650 grains [0.66 pounds ] of extruded DU, alloyed with 0.75 weight percent titanium.7 The Olin Corporation is the sole maker in the U.S. of DU antitank rounds, and its foundation funds "research" which purports to show that DU has no harmful health effects.
As usual you are WRONG. Your INDYMEDIA sight is WRONG
Your article surmises that its outer casing is made of Eglin Steel does not offer any valid information.
Now a MOAB would fit the bill of your INDYMEDIA site but Isreal is hardly dropping those.Stick to your claims of Chemical Weapons.
The use of DU bunker bombs and chemical weapons by Israel , you must be proud of your brave IDF .

Of course , not just imperialism but racist/theological philosophies such as Zionism .

I asked because you seem very focused on the US-Israel duet.

Ah yeah , samcdkey is wondering as to what I am , Im getting ready to hear the old " Foley is a Communist Anti-American Anti-Semite/Neo-Nazi " chant .



I couldn't care less. You don't seem like a rabid racist, just an over-zealous protestor.

But I believe in asking rather than guessing.

Lots of people think Hitler characterized the Jewish people correctly in WWII. There should be no taboo arguments.

Others, like me, get in trouble for pointing out that Israel are Nazis -- and that being Nazi is the only way to defend an ethnic group of any color. C'est la vie.

I asked because you seem very focused on the US-Israel duet.
This particualr lobby is dedicated to the discussion of current events and consequently this Israel attack on Lebanon is current , and the US is figuring very predominantly . Fact is America is focusing literally 90% at the moment in world affairs so it is rather hard to ignore America and its actions .
I couldn't care less. You don't seem like a rabid racist, just an over-zealous protestor.

But I believe in asking rather than guessing.
My mistake and apologies , I hate Israel and its racist/Zionist philosophy which has craeted a Jewish state for Jews who have a right of return to live in Palestine and evict an indigenous Palestinian from his home , that to me is barbaric and should be resisted .
Lots of people think Hitler characterized the Jewish people correctly in WWII. There should be no taboo arguments.

Others, like me, get in trouble for pointing out that Israel are Nazis -- and that being Nazi is the only way to defend an ethnic group of any color. C'est la vie.
I believe in an entirely open discussion with no bounds , that is the only way . Certain people here like JamesR or the few rightwing Racist/Zionist Jewish posters on sciforums who who believe any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic therefore in thier eyes if you are the author of such posts you must be a Nazi .

This particualr lobby is dedicated to the discussion of current events and consequently this Israel attack on Lebanon is current , and the US is figuring very predominantly . Fact is America is focusing literally 90% at the moment in world affairs so it is rather hard to ignore America and its actions .

My mistake and apologies , I hate Israel and its racist/Zionist philosophy which has craeted a Jewish state for Jews who have a right of return to live in Palestine and evict an indigenous Palestinian from his home , that to me is barbaric and should be resisted .

I believe in an entirely open discussion with no bounds , that is the only way . Certain people here like JamesR or the few rightwing Racist/Zionist Jewish posters on sciforums who who believe any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic therefore in thier eyes if you are the author of such posts you must be a Nazi .
Thats right dude!!,..just let it all out.. :D

Thats right dude!!,..just let it all out.. :D
W4NK3R .................

Bush stresses 'sustainable' Mideast peace
AP - 27 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Sunday renewed his call for a "sustainable peace" in the Middle East while his administration urged Israel to avoid civilian casualties in the wake of a deadly airstrike in Lebanon. "Our hope for peace for boys and girls everywhere extends across the world, especially in the Middle East," the president said before the start of a T-ball game at the White House.

:D

Bush stresses 'sustainable' Mideast peace
AP - 27 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Sunday renewed his call for a "sustainable peace" in the Middle East while his administration urged Israel to avoid civilian casualties in the wake of a deadly airstrike in Lebanon. "Our hope for peace for boys and girls everywhere extends across the world, especially in the Middle East," the president said before the start of a T-ball game at the White House.

:D
Judging by what has transppired I believe the object here was to provoke Syria into an open conflict with Israel in the hope of pulling Iran into the fray , thereby giving America an opportunity to hit Iran .
Air raid hits Syria border (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,19959478-1702,00.html)
ISRAELI warplanes struck the town of Masnaa, the main crossing point over the border between Lebanon and Syria, security sources said.
Syria is not taking the bait here and Israel seems to be exhausting all options in this current exchange , it will be interesting to see what turn the US has towards Israel next week in regards to Israel being a regional player , Events over the last year has shown Israel to be completely ignored , therefore non essential to US policy .

Judging by what has transppired I believe the object here was to provoke Syria into an open conflict with Israel in the hope of pulling Iran into the fray , thereby giving America an opportunity to hit Iran .

Syria is not taking the bait here and Israel seems to be exhausting all options in this current exchange , it will be interesting to see what turn the US has towards Israel next week in regards to Israel being a regional player , Events over the last year has shown Israel to be completely ignored , therefore non essential to US policy .

Yes Syria is not going to jump in; they can see the effect on world opinion, so they are sitting tight.

Bush stresses 'sustainable' Mideast peace
AP - 27 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Sunday renewed his call for a "sustainable peace" in the Middle East while his administration urged Israel to avoid civilian casualties in the wake of a deadly airstrike in Lebanon. "Our hope for peace for boys and girls everywhere extends across the world, especially in the Middle East," the president said before the start of a T-ball game at the White House.

:D

well, israel just bombarded a vila and killed 37 children today... that didnt help much, did it?

well, israel just bombarded a vila and killed 37 children today... that didnt help much, did it?

Put him off his game huh?

Yes Syria is not going to jump in; they can see the effect on world opinion, so they are sitting tight.
I think with past evidence Syria and Iran as well as the rest of the mideast , know exactly what is transpiring .

It's because Syria and Iran, this escalation of violence has taken place.
They knew that the Israeli response would be quick and hard. Using collateral damage and the death of civilians as key elements to get more players on board. Iran and Syria would have more cards on the table to place a hand in the conflict for the greater interests of Iran's Shite agenda.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2098896,00.html

Getting the backing and support of arab nations to join the club in order take out Israel...Iran's call for the destruction of Israel!!!.
Note that the almost simulataneous kidnapping of Israeli soliders from Gaza and Lebanon was well planned with the blessing of Syria and Iran.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did say a few weeks ago in an address to the nation that the "End of Israel is close"...this is part of that plan.
getting people to fight and die for hezbollah and hamas is no problem when they are heavilly fucked on religon and believe "Allah" will destroy the infidels and the martyrs shall live in paradise with virgins and all that quran shit!!
Fact: People die in war!!!..It's the people who start it like Hezbollah who have to be disarmed under U.N resolutions.
The same group backed by Iran and Syria caused the death of 241 American servicemen: 220 Marines, 18 Navy personnel and 3 Army ... In December 1983, Beirut Barracks. Sixty Americans were injured. In the attack on the French barracks, 58 paratroopers were killed and 15 injured

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

In retaliation for the attacks, France launched an air strike in the Beqaa Valley against Iranian Revolutionary Guard positions. President Reagan assembled his national security team and planned to target the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. But Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations

Brain,

Your articles are highly misleading!
They state:

Since 1997 the United States has been modifying and upgrading its missiles and guided (smart) bombs. Prototypes of these bombs were tested in the Kosovo mountains in 1999, but a far greater range has been tested in Afghanistan. The upgrade involves replacing a conventional warhead by a heavy, dense metal one (3). Calculating the volume and the weight of this mystery metal leads to two possible conclusions: it is either tungsten or depleted uranium.

Its source for reference 3?
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/hdbtdc.htm

The reference makes NO mention of DU at ALL. Here is the direct GBU-28 site:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/gbu-28.htm

Notice that it also makes NO reference to DU.

The author of your article makes an ASSUMPTION Calculating the volume and the weight of this mystery metal leads to two possible conclusions and states his ASSUMPTION as fact. His ASSUMPTION is then stated as fact in all the anti-US/DU/Isreal/whatever websites.

Yes there is DU contamination- but that doesnt mean its from the GBU-28s.

Just because they use DU in anti-tank munitions doesnt mean they use it for a bomb. Its also nice to note that the leading researcher and major source of inspiration for the article is a occupational psychologist. Maybe your next article can quote McDonalds workers....

Brain,

Your articles are highly misleading!
They state:


Its source for reference 3?
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/hdbtdc.htm

The reference makes NO mention of DU at ALL. Here is the direct GBU-28 site:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/gbu-28.htm

Notice that it also makes NO reference to DU.

The author of your article makes an ASSUMPTION Calculating the volume and the weight of this mystery metal leads to two possible conclusions and states his ASSUMPTION as fact. His ASSUMPTION is then stated as fact in all the anti-US/DU/Isreal/whatever websites.

Yes there is DU contamination- but that doesnt mean its from the GBU-28s.

Just because they use DU in anti-tank munitions doesnt mean they use it for a bomb. Its also nice to note that the leading researcher and major source of inspiration for the article is a . Maybe your next article can quote McDonalds workers....

Re: depleted Uranium

I found these sources but I don't know how accurate they are

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0607/S00452.htm

The delivery of at least 100 GBU 28 bunker busters bombs containing depleted uranium warheads by the United States to Israel for use against targets in Lebanon will result in additional radioactive and chemical toxic contamination with consequent adverse health and environmental effects throughout the middle east.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=ENGMDE150702006
According to media reports, the USA is transferring GBU 28 bunker-buster bombs containing depleted-uranium warheads to Israel for use against targets in Lebanon.

Sam,

Here is the problem with these sites:
The author of the scoop article states that he is Dr. Doug Rokke, PhD., former Director, U.S. Army Depleted Uranium project (sounds pretty important). Here is the problem. His 'Depleted Uranium project' ended in prior to 1996- "I am amazed that fifteen years after was I asked to clean up the initial DU mess from Gulf War 1 and over ten years since I finished the depleted uranium project"

So he was done with his 'uranium project prior to 1996- yet the new warheads that these sites claim use DU were developed after 1996. So once again, he might have been arround DU cleanup- but he in no way developed or had anything to do with the development of the new GBU-28 warheads.

Not to mention that http://www.cursor.org/stories/uranium.htm claims that the GBU-28 uses the BLU-109 penatrator which is WRONG. The BLU-109 is used on 2000lb bombs, not the 5000lbs. They cant even get that right. Once again they use all of these sites reference to a USA Today graphic as the source of their DU Claims- yet the USA Today graffic makes NO MENTION OF DU!!!

Here is the source graphic that these sites use to claim that DU is being used in the GBU-28 bomb: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gbuster/frame.htm

Sam,

Here is the problem with these sites:
The author of the scoop article states that he is Dr. Doug Rokke, PhD., former Director, U.S. Army Depleted Uranium project (sounds pretty important). Here is the problem. His 'Depleted Uranium project' ended in prior to 1996- "I am amazed that fifteen years after was I asked to clean up the initial DU mess from Gulf War 1 and over ten years since I finished the depleted uranium project"

So he was done with his 'uranium project prior to 1996- yet the new warheads that these sites claim use DU were developed after 1996. So once again, he might have been arround DU cleanup- but he in no way developed or had anything to do with the development of the new GBU-28 warheads.

Not to mention that http://www.cursor.org/stories/uranium.htm claims that the GBU-28 uses the BLU-109 penatrator which is WRONG. The BLU-109 is used on 2000lb bombs, not the 5000lbs. They cant even get that right. Once again they use all of these sites reference to a USA Today graphic as the source of their DU Claims- yet the USA Today graffic makes NO MENTION OF DU!!!

Here is the source graphic that these sites use to claim that DU is being used in the GBU-28 bomb: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gbuster/frame.htm


I found the animation; it says part of the composition of the warhead is classified.
http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gbuster/frame.htm

And here is a report from global policy
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/consequences/2003/0407irregular.htm

I googled GBU-28 and DU and found a lot of controversy over the bunker busters used in Iraq, but no conclusive evidence.

However according to howstuffworks (hopefully a neutral site?):

"One way to make a bunker buster heavier while maintaining a narrow cross-sectional area is to use a metal that is heavier than steel. Lead is heavier, but it is so soft that it is useless in a penetrator -- lead would deform or disintegrate when the bomb hits the target.

One material that is both extremely strong and extremely dense is depleted uranium. DU is the material of choice for penetrating weapons because of these properties. For example, the M829 is an armor-piercing "dart" fired from the cannon of an M1 tank. These 10-pound (4.5-kg) darts are 2 feet (61 cm) long, approximately 1 inch (2.5 cm) in diameter and leave the barrel of the tank's cannon traveling at over 1 mile (1.6 km) per second. The dart has so much kinetic energy and is so strong that it is able to pierce the strongest armor plating.

Depleted uranium is a by-product of the nuclear power industry. Natural uranium from a mine contains two isotopes: U-235 and U-238. The U-235 is what is needed to produce nuclear power (see How Nuclear Power Plants Work for details), so the uranium is refined to extract the U-235 and create "enriched uranium." The U-238 that is left over is known as "depleted uranium." "

Its common Knowledge
The least trustworthy source in all of existence.

It's because Syria and Iran
No you are wrong :
Syria, Iran lack full Hizbollah control: US officials (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060725/ts_nm/mideast_syria_usa_dc_2)
President Bush told British Prime Minister Tony Blair in an aside last week that the key to ending the current Middle East crisis was to "get Syria to get Hizbollah to stop doing this shit."

But Henry Crumpton, the State Department's coordinator for counterterrorism, said even Iran -- which he said had more influence than Syria -- did not have full control over the Islamist guerrillas.

"Syria can stop the flow of weapons, materiel and people into Lebanon. Yes, they can take a lot of action that they haven't. In terms of them controlling Hizbollah, no," Crumpton told a press briefing. "They cannot put Hizbollah out of business."
Iran and Syria have no control over events America says so .
this escalation of violence has taken place.
No Israel started this escalation >It's war by any other name (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html)
It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon's side of the border with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory.
" It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon's side of the border with Israel "
You see very simple to understand .
Brain,

Your articles are highly misleading!
No its not I provided that article for your discernment you are not happy with it to bad . The fact is these weapons are secret , yet enough is coming out to say there is at least 1.5 tonnes of DU in these bombs .
Notice that it also makes NO reference to DU.
And notice it also makes no reference that these weapons do not contain DU either .

For a bomb to penetrate that deep into the earth or bunker, it's going to need to be DU.

I'm still wondering what the big deal is about it being, or not being, cased in DU. :confused:

It's amusing how controversial just mentioning DU can be, LoL! Sure, if you have DU being used on civilians, that's one thing, but these are to bust open tough bunkers. Surely the military should be allowed to have at least some type of bombs that use DU, even if just for a special occassion, ya?

- N

For a bomb to penetrate that deep into the earth or bunker, it's going to need to be DU.

I'm still wondering what the big deal is about it being, or not being, cased in DU. :confused:

It's amusing how controversial just mentioning DU can be, LoL! Sure, if you have DU being used on civilians, that's one thing, but these are to bust open tough bunkers. Surely the military should be allowed to have at least some type of bombs that use DU, even if just for a special occassion, ya?

- N
http://www.cadu.org.uk/info/health/7_4.htm

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3627

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/93519516/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Neildo- tungsten or any other heavy metal would work. Concrete/Earth is far different than punching through the armor plate of a tank.

The GBU-28 COULD be filled with DU- point being that no one really knows and as such people like Foley should stop making factual statements backed soley by someones opinion.

"And notice it also makes no reference that these weapons do not contain DU either ."

Notice it also makes no reference that these weapons do not contain cow shit either. Using your logic I guess GBU-28 are filled with cow shit.

Sam,

Nonone here is debated the health effects of DU (though I would argue gitting hit by a regular bomb would be just a deadly....).

Notice it also makes no reference that these weapons do not contain cow shit either. Using your logic I guess GBU-28 are filled with cow shit.
Your source states clearly :
BUNKER BUSTER BOMBS

The GBU-28 Bunker Buster is a 5,000 pound bomb designed to penetrate up to 6 meters of concrete or 30 meters of earth before exploding. While former Nobel Peace Prize nominee Helen Caldicott warns that the casing of bunker busters are made of uranium 238 (depleted uranium, or DU), it is unclear whether the GBU-28 used on Iraq contains DU.
And your USA Today tour says the GBU is classified , so the only cow shit flying around here is your argument . So could we see clear proof as you claim that these bombs do not contain DU .

Neildo- tungsten or any other heavy metal would work. Concrete/Earth is far different than punching through the armor plate of a tank.

Earth is harder to bust through than armor. Same with water. You realize that 5 feet of water can stop and disintegrate a .50 cal round from a sniper rifle? This is one of the reasons for the new super gel body armor. Displacement rocks.

To drill as deep as they want these bunker busters to go, it better be dense as hell which is the purpose of DU.

- N

What's the big deal about bunker busters? Civilians don't live in bunkers, they go to bomb shelters.

Earth is harder to bust through than armor. Same with water. You realize that 5 feet of water can stop and disintegrate a .50 cal round from a sniper rifle? This is one of the reasons for the new super gel body armor. Displacement rocks.

To drill as deep as they want these bunker busters to go, it better be dense as hell which is the purpose of DU.

- N
This ought to clear up this tungsten claim .
DEPLETED URANIUM IN BUNKER BOMBS (http://mondediplo.com/2002/03/03uranium)
Tungsten poses problems. Its melting point (3,422°C) makes it very hard to work; it is expensive; it is produced mostly by China; and it does not burn. DU is pyrophoric, burning on impact or if it is ignited, with a melting point of 1,132°C; it is much easier to process; and as nuclear waste, it is available free to arms manufacturers. Further, using it in a range of weapons significantly reduces the US nuclear waste storage problem.

What's the big deal about bunker busters? Civilians don't live in bunkers, they go to bomb shelters.

I know, I'm still wondering why it's such a big deal too with bunker busters using DU for the same reasons. Although, hey, don't let Israel use em cause they'll still target civilian bomb shelters with em! :bugeye:

Further, using it in a range of weapons significantly reduces the US nuclear waste storage problem.

Hey, better scattered around the globe in countries we don't like than storing it on our own land or shipping it out to Antarctica (which is shipped outta my port to there). ;)

- N

What's the big deal about bunker busters? Civilians don't live in bunkers, they go to bomb shelters.

How can you tell the difference between a bunker and a bomb shelter exactly?

How can you tell the difference between a bunker and a bomb shelter exactly?

Well, usually the bunkers targetted are underground military installations and not civilian housing developments.

- N

Are there bunkers in Lebanon?

IDF: Hezbollah leaders' bunker hit (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/19/mideast/index.html)

Brian do you oppose imperialism in general, or just the US and Israel in particular?
What other imperialism is there? It used to be Imperialism was a big word encompassing several powerful exploitive nations: France, Spain, Portugal, The Netherlands, Britain, Japan, Germany, The USA, Italy and Belgium. No more. The US is the sole imperial power with Israel as our personal pitbull doing our dirty work in the MidEast.

I don't think the US has as much control over Israel as we like to think.

Brian,

Here I am expecting you to post some facts from a Military Weapons designer but no you post this crap:

While former Nobel Peace Prize nominee Helen Caldicott warns that the casing of bunker busters are made of uranium 238 (depleted uranium, or DU), it is unclear whether the GBU-28 used on Iraq contains DU.

Helen Caldicott:
Born in Melbourne, Australia in 1938, Dr Caldicott received her medical degree from the University of Adelaide Medical School in 1961. She founded the Cystic Fibrosis Clinic at the Adelaide Children's Hospital in 1975 and subsequently was an instructor in pediatrics at Harvard Medical School and on the staff of the Children's Hospital Medical Center, Boston, Mass., until 1980 when she resigned to work full time on the prevention of nuclear war.

Shes a Doctor!! Not an Engineer! She doesnt even work for the US Army. How in the hell would she know what the casing is made out of? Does she have some new top-secret clearance??

From http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/gbu-28.htm
The bomb was fabricated starting on 1 February, using surplus 8-inch artillery tubes as bomb casings because of their strength and weight.

ARTILLERY TUBES FOLEY- NOT DU or are you now going to claim we make our artillery tubes out of DU :rolleyes:

And your USA Today tour says the GBU is classified , so the only cow shit flying around here is your argument . So could we see clear proof as you claim that these bombs do not contain DU .

Can you prove that they do not contain cowshit?? No you cant.
And my "USA Today tour" is the same source that all your DU Claim sites use.
YOURE the one who is claiming that its contains DU- the burden of proof is on you and as I have repeatedly shown you have NO proof.
All you have is speculation and theories which in the world of facts is worthless.

For all future debates about DU I will use your tactic of rampant speculation stated as fact and state that GBU-28's are filled with cowshit.


edited to add:
DEPLETED URANIUM IN BUNKER BOMBS
Tungsten poses problems. Its melting point (3,422°C) makes it very hard to work; it is expensive; it is produced mostly by China; and it does not burn. DU is pyrophoric, burning on impact or if it is ignited, with a melting point of 1,132°C; it is much easier to process; and as nuclear waste, it is available free to arms manufacturers. Further, using it in a range of weapons significantly reduces the US nuclear waste storage problem.

From http://www.wise-uranium.org/dhap991.html
Most of the depleted uranium produced to date is being stored as UF6 in steel cylinders in the open air in so-called cylinder yards located adjacent to the enrichment plants. The cylinders contain up to 12.7 tonnes of UF6. In the US alone, 560,000 metric tonnes of depleted UF6 have accumulated until 1993

Using an anti-DU site: http://www.countercurrents.org/hall230306.htm
However, most researchers cite radioactive poisoning from depleted uranium shells as the deadliest element in the Gulf War Illness "cocktail." In the 1991 war the Pentagon fired more than 340 tons of D.U. projectiles at targets in Iraq and Kuwait. More than a half million Gulf era veterans are on medical disability.

At last count, more than 1,000 tons have been used in Afghanistan and more than 3,000 tons in Iraq.

So we have a total of 4000+tons of DU used in war, while at last count (ie 1993) we had 560,000 tons in storage (which has no doubt increased in the last 13 years). Which equals an aproximate 1% decrease of stored DU. Which does not add up to your claim of: "significantly reduces the US nuclear waste storage problem" If you included the increase DU stored in the last 13 years it would be far less than 1%.

Tungsten poses problems. Its melting point (3,422°C) makes it very hard to work; it is expensive; it is produced mostly by China; and it does not burn. DU is pyrophoric, burning on impact or if it is ignited, with a melting point of 1,132°C

Tungsten poses problems in APFSDS Anti-tank rounds because Tungsten mushrooms on impact and doesnt penetrate as far as a DU round. The pyrophoric property is a bonus as it can set off enemy tank rounds stored in the tank. If you look at Soviet tank designs they store their tank rounds in an open ring around the crew. Have you looked at what temperature and velocity is needed to to make DU pyrophoric?? APFSDS rounds move at 1700m/second- gravity bombs do not.

Once again you confuse an anti-tank round with a bomb which are completely different in design and usage.

Helen Caldicott:

Shes a Doctor!! Not an Engineer! She doesnt even work for the US Army. How in the hell would she know what the casing is made out of? Does she have some new top-secret clearance??

:cool:

http://www.nuclearpolicy.org/
Dr Helen Caldicott, founder of the Nuclear Policy Research Institute.

I have repeatedly shown you have NO proof.
All you have is speculation and theories which in the world of facts is worthless.
Christ does this guy shit marble or something ?
Could YOU show WHERE in your sources where it is catergorically written that these bunker busting bombs DO NOT CONTAIN DU !!!!
.

Christ does this guy shit marble or something ?
Could YOU show WHERE in your sources where it is catergorically written that these bunker busting bombs DO NOT CONTAIN DU !!!!

Christ does this guy shit marble or something ?
Could YOU show WHERE in your sources where it is catergorically written that these bunker busting bombs DO NOT CONTAIN COWSHIT !!!!

Just because they dont say "This does not contain DU" does not mean that it does contain DU.
It doesnt say "This does not contain COWSHIT" so according to your retarded logic it MUST contain cowshit!

You are making CLAIMS and SPECULATION and have NO PROOF.

Why dont you say, "In my opinion", or "I believe" it contains DU. If you said that I could care less. Its when you present your OPINIONS and SPECULATION as fact when its not- thats what im pointing out to you Brian.

"http://www.nuclearpolicy.org/
Dr Helen Caldicott, founder of the Nuclear Policy Research Institute."

Yep, not a weapons designer. Thank you for the info.

"http://www.nuclearpolicy.org/
Dr Helen Caldicott, founder of the Nuclear Policy Research Institute."

Yep, not a weapons designer. Thank you for the info.

She does not need to be an expert in weapons.
She is a physician and hence an expert in the toxicological effects of uranium.

Born in Melbourne, Australia, Caldicott received her medical degree in 1961 from the University of Adelaide Medical School. In 1977 she joined the staff of the Children's Hospital Medical Center in Boston and was a teacher at the Harvard Medical School in pediatrics from 1977 to 1978. In 1980 she left her medical career in order to concentrate on calling the world's attention to what she perceived as the "insanity" of the world's increasing supply of nuclear weapons and national stockpiles.

and a member of International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War.

Sam,

We are not debating about the Toxicity of DU- it is toxic. We are debating if the GBU-28 contains DU. Dr. Caldicott needs to be an expert in weapons if she is going to be making statements about classified weapons.

Sam,

We are not debating about the Toxicity of DU- it is toxic. We are debating if the GBU-28 contains DU. Dr. Caldicott needs to be an expert in weapons if she is going to be making statements about classified weapons.


The widely-used Lockheed Martin GBU-28 5,000 lb. 'bunker-buster' bomb with a BLU-109 penetrator head carried only by the Air Force's F-15E's and B-2s, contains 1.5 metric tons of depleted uranium, compared to only five kilograms in the 120 mm shell.

http://www.cursor.org/stories/uranium.htm

BLU-109
The BLU series bomb bodies use PBNX-109 as explosive filler. The BLU-109A/B used with the GBU-24 and GBU-31(V)4/B is a special purpose bomb comprised of steel alloy used for hardened targets. The BLU-109/B (I-2000) is an improved 2,000-pound-class bomb designed as a penetrator without a forward fuze well. Its configuration is relatively slim, and its skin is much harder than that of the standard MK-84 bomb. The skin is a single-piece, forged warhead casing of one-inch, high-grade steel. Its usual tail fuze is a mechanical-electrical FMU- 143. The 1,925-pound bomb has a 550-pound tritonal high-explosive blast warhead. The BLU-109/B was always mated with a laser guidance kit to form a laser-guided bomb in Desert Storm.





Specifications
Class 2,000 lb. Penetrator, Blast/Fragmentation
Guidance Ballistic
Control Low Drag Fins/Air Foil Groups
Autopilot: None
Propulsion: None
Weight (lbs.) 1950
Length (in.) 98.54
Diameter (in.) 14.5
Explosive 535 lbs. Tritonal
Fuze FMU-143 Series
Stabilizer Fins and Airfoil Groups (Laser Guided Bombs)
Contractor Lockheed Missiles & Space
Unit Cost $2,126 (Warhead Only)
Aircraft F-117 F-15E F-16A-D F-111D-F

BLU-109
The BLU series bomb bodies use PBNX-109 as explosive filler. The BLU-109A/B used with the GBU-24 and GBU-31(V)4/B is a special purpose bomb comprised of steel alloy used for hardened targets. The BLU-109/B (I-2000) is an improved 2,000-pound-class bomb designed as a penetrator without a forward fuze well. Its configuration is relatively slim, and its skin is much harder than that of the standard MK-84 bomb. The skin is a single-piece, forged warhead casing of one-inch, high-grade steel. Its usual tail fuze is a mechanical-electrical FMU- 143. The 1,925-pound bomb has a 550-pound tritonal high-explosive blast warhead. The BLU-109/B was always mated with a laser guidance kit to form a laser-guided bomb in Desert Storm.



Specifications
Class 2,000 lb. Penetrator, Blast/Fragmentation
Guidance Ballistic
Control Low Drag Fins/Air Foil Groups
Autopilot: None
Propulsion: None
Weight (lbs.) 1950
Length (in.) 98.54
Diameter (in.) 14.5
Explosive 535 lbs. Tritonal
Fuze FMU-143 Series
Stabilizer Fins and Airfoil Groups (Laser Guided Bombs)
Contractor Lockheed Missiles & Space
Unit Cost $2,126 (Warhead Only)
Aircraft F-117 F-15E F-16A-D F-111D-F

The BLU-109A/B used with the GBU-24 and GBU-31(V)4/B is a special purpose bomb

i.e. not the one used with GBU-28

That is this one:
The widely-used Lockheed Martin GBU-28 5,000 lb. 'bunker-buster' bomb with a BLU-109 penetrator head carried only by the Air Force's F-15E's and B-2s, contains 1.5 metric tons of depleted uranium, compared to only five kilograms in the 120 mm shell. According to the GBU-28 Bunker Buster animation on USA Today the warhead is "classified"

classified: means they don't want you to know what it contains

The new EGBU-28 (the “E” being for enhanced) replaces the GBU-37. This latest version of the “bunker buster” uses the Global Positioning System for guidance so that it can be dropped with accuracy at higher altitudes in foul weather. The amount of rock and concrete that the EGBU-28 can penetrate is classified
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/gbu-28e.htm


again, the amount of rock and concrete it can penetrate is classified

why?
http://www.princeton.edu/~globsec/publications/pdf/8_2liolios.pdf
Assessing The Risk from the Depleted Uranium Weapons Used in Operation Allied Force
Guided Bomb Unit-28 (GBU-28)
The Guided Bomb Unit-28 (GBU-28) is a special weapon developed for penetrating hardened command centers located deep underground. The GBU-28 is a 5,000-pound laser-guided conventional munition that uses a 4,400-pound
penetrating warhead. The bombs are modified Army artillery tubes, weigh
4,637 pounds, and contain 630 pounds of high explosives.


The US DOD estimates that 315 tons of DU were deposited in the Gulf War battlefield. This estimate is based upon an assortment of A-10 firing [15 missions per month, each mission 1,500 rounds] 200 GBU-24 bombs being dropped, 50 GBU-28 and GBU-37 bombs being dropped, and use of a variety of other DU-containing weapons [e.g., the AC-130s, AGM-130, etc.].
http://envirosagainstwar.org/know/read.php?itemid=357


The three properties that make depleted uranium useful in penetrating weapons are its:

Density - Depleted uranium is 1.7 times heavier than lead, and 2.4 times heavier than steel.

Hardness - If you look at a Web site like WebElements.com, you can see that the Brinell hardness of U-238 is 2,400, which is just shy of tungsten at 2,570. Iron is 490. Depleted uranium alloyed with a small amount of titanium is even harder.

Incendiary properties - Depleted uranium burns. It is something like magnesium in this regard. If you heat uranium up in an oxygen environment (normal air), it will ignite and burn with an extremely intense flame. Once inside the target, burning uranium is another part of the bomb's destructive power.
These three properties make depleted uranium an obvious choice when creating advanced bunker-busting bombs. With depleted uranium, it is possible to create extremely heavy, strong and narrow bombs that have tremendous penetrating force.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster.htm


Conclusion: The US is sending warheads packed with DU to Israel for use on Lebanese civilians.

BLU-109
The BLU series bomb bodies use PBNX-109 as explosive filler. The BLU-109A/B used with the GBU-24 and GBU-31(V)4/B is a special purpose bomb comprised of steel alloy used for hardened targets. The BLU-109/B (I-2000) is an improved 2,000-pound-class bomb designed as a penetrator without a forward fuze well. Its configuration is relatively slim, and its skin is much harder than that of the standard MK-84 bomb. The skin is a single-piece, forged warhead casing of one-inch, high-grade steel. Its usual tail fuze is a mechanical-electrical FMU- 143. The 1,925-pound bomb has a 550-pound tritonal high-explosive blast warhead. The BLU-109/B was always mated with a laser guidance kit to form a laser-guided bomb in Desert Storm.




Specifications
Class 2,000 lb. Penetrator, Blast/Fragmentation
Guidance Ballistic
Control Low Drag Fins/Air Foil Groups
Autopilot: None
Propulsion: None
Weight (lbs.) 1950
Length (in.) 98.54
Diameter (in.) 14.5
Explosive 535 lbs. Tritonal
Fuze FMU-143 Series
Stabilizer Fins and Airfoil Groups (Laser Guided Bombs)
Contractor Lockheed Missiles & Space
Unit Cost $2,126 (Warhead Only)
Aircraft F-117 F-15E F-16A-D F-111D-F
Oh no not again

No were do I see DU listed as a component of these bombs, and as far as a 4,400 lb. warhead, the weight of the bomb is 4,400 lb.

The bombs are modified Army artillery tubes, weigh
4,637 pounds, and contain 630 pounds of high explosives.

artillery tubes contain no Depleted Uranium, and it isn't required to penetrate reinforced concrete, the penetrating capability comes from the weight, velocity, and Ballistic Coefficient, the narrower the projectile the heaver the weight, the longer the projectile, the higher the velocity, the better the penetration, that is how it works,

If you go to this site, you will see the design of the BLU-109 it carries no DU only HE

BLU-109 - Dumb Bombs
The BLU-109/B (I-2000) is an improved 2000-pound-class bomb designed as a penetrator ... The BLU-109/B was always mated with a laser guidance kit to form a ...
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-109.htm

If you go to this site and click the search, you can name your ordinance and it will describe construction and function.

No were do I see DU listed as a component of these bombs, and as far as a 4,400 lb. warhead, the weight of the bomb is 4,400 lb.



artillery tubes contain no Depleted Uranium, and it isn't required to penetrate reinforced concrete, the penetrating capability comes from the weight, velocity, and Ballistic Coefficient, the narrower the projectile the heaver the weight, the longer the projectile, the higher the velocity, the better the penetration, that is how it works,

To make bunker busters that can go even deeper, designers have three choices:

1. They can make the weapon heavier. More weight gives the bomb more kinetic energy when it hits the target.

2. They can make the weapon smaller in diameter. The smaller cross-sectional area means that the bomb has to move less material (earth or concrete) "out of the way" as it penetrates.

3. They can make the bomb faster to increase its kinetic energy. The only practical way to do this is to add some sort of large rocket engine that fires right before impact.

One way to make a bunker buster heavier while maintaining a narrow cross-sectional area is to use a metal that is heavier than steel. Lead is heavier, but it is so soft that it is useless in a penetrator -- lead would deform or disintegrate when the bomb hits the target.

One material that is both extremely strong and extremely dense is depleted uranium. DU is the material of choice for penetrating weapons because of these properties.

If you go to this site, you will see the design of the BLU-109 it carries no DU only HE

BLU-109 - Dumb Bombs
The BLU-109/B (I-2000) is an improved 2000-pound-class bomb designed as a penetrator ... The BLU-109/B was always mated with a laser guidance kit to form a ...
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-109.htm

If you go to this site and click the search, you can name your ordinance and it will describe construction and function.

You are not paying attention

The BLU-109A/B used with the GBU-24 and GBU-31(V)4/B is a special purpose bomb.

Its not the same one.

looks like we got some weapons experts on the forum..hey guys wanna join my militia???... :D

looks like we got some weapons experts on the forum..hey guys wanna join my militia???... :D

Let's start a sciforums militia :D

Sam your are denying fact, I have given you valid sites. I have spent some time checking how DU is used in weapons and in none of the sites visited did I find DU made into casings, it is machined into projectiles, and one of the reasons that it not used in casing is the it corrodes easily which then weakens areas of the casing which then affects the distribution of the blast when the explosives are set off and then affect the destructive pattern of the weapon. Since your in the medical community have someone check if the health problems with DU, have more to do with heavy metal poisoning the radiation, a question that came to my mind in reading the information on the material.

The GBU-28 has been modified to increase the penetrating ability


U.S. Air Force seeks deeper penetrating "bunker-buster" weapon
By Kris Osborn
CNN Headline News
Tuesday, November 19, 2002 Posted: 11:16 AM EST (1616 GMT)

In the next few months, U.S. Air Force officials said Friday they expect to decide on a contract to improve the earth-penetrating capability of the 5,000-pound "bunker-buster" bomb.

The bomb, the GBU-28, was widely used in Afghanistan. According to experts, it is capable of penetrating up to 22 feet of earth and concrete before detonating. Military experts say many caves and other targets in Afghanistan were much deeper than that, demonstrating the need for a deeper-penetrating weapon.

"We will be producing more of the GBU-28s, improving the penetrating aspects of the weapon," said Air Force Maj. Steve Pearce who heads the GBU-28 development program at the Air Armaments Center at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida.

check if the health problems with DU, have more to do with heavy metal poisoning the radiation, a question that came to my mind in reading the information on the material.

What do you think DU is?

It's a heavy metal (uranium) which causes radiation poisoning

Sam, no they are all separate ordinance, that is connected to guidance systems, they cannot be piggy backed to one another.

Sam your are denying fact, I have given you valid sites. I have spent some time checking how DU is used in weapons and in none of the sites visited did I find DU made into casings, it is machined into projectiles, and one of the reasons that it not used in casing is the it corrodes easily which then weakens areas of the casing which then affects the distribution of the blast when the explosives are set off and then affect the destructive pattern of the weapon.

I think you are getting confused about what I am saying:

I am focused on the GBU-28 bunker buster with modified penetrating abilities currently used by the US.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/du.htm
In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium [DU] is ideal for use in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets. DU provides a substantial performance advantage, well above other competing materials. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a significantly greater distance. Also, DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for many years in both applications.


The three properties that make depleted uranium useful in penetrating weapons are its:

Density - Depleted uranium is 1.7 times heavier than lead, and 2.4 times heavier than steel.

Hardness - If you look at a Web site like WebElements.com, you can see that the Brinell hardness of U-238 is 2,400, which is just shy of tungsten at 2,570. Iron is 490. Depleted uranium alloyed with a small amount of titanium is even harder.

Incendiary properties - Depleted uranium burns. It is something like magnesium in this regard. If you heat uranium up in an oxygen environment (normal air), it will ignite and burn with an extremely intense flame. Once inside the target, burning uranium is another part of the bomb's destructive power.

These three properties make depleted uranium an obvious choice when creating advanced bunker-busting bombs. With depleted uranium, it is possible to create extremely heavy, strong and narrow bombs that have tremendous penetrating force.

Yes I know what DU is, I help bring it on line, my Unit was tasked with live firings of the projectiles, I have seen and taken reading with Geiger Counters in the test of the projectiles, and the reading were far below lethal levels, but one of my cousins on his farm got a bad load of feed that was contaminated with some type of heavy metal and it killed half of his herd, and he had to destroy the rest.

Yes I know what DU is, I help bring it on line, my Unit was tasked with live firings of the projectiles, I have seen and taken reading with Geiger Counters in the test of the projectiles, and the reading were far below lethal levels, but one of my cousins on his farm got a bad load of feed that was contaminated with some type of heavy metal and it killed half of his herd, and he had to destroy the rest.

The genotoxic properties of DU are far below those required for chemical toxicity.

It causes chromosomal breaks and DNA damage at very very low levels of contamination.

But look at the applications your post shows,

1. In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium [DU] is ideal for use in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets

2. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a significantly greater distance. ie: tanks and armored vehicles the farther out you can hit them the safer you are.

3. DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for many years in both applications.

none of these show use as bomb casings, and as I have stated in the reading that I have done, the corrosion factor of the material doesn't make it a suitable material for casing use.

But look at the applications your post shows,

1. In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium [DU] is ideal for use in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets

2. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a significantly greater distance. ie: tanks and armored vehicles the farther out you can hit them the safer you are.

3. DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for many years in both applications.

none of these show use as bomb casings, and as I have stated in the reading that I have done, the corrosion factor of the material doesn't make it a suitable material for casing use.


That was to explain depleted uranium; it is an old link.

Read this:
The widely-used Lockheed Martin GBU-28 5,000 lb. 'bunker-buster' bomb with a BLU-109 penetrator head carried only by the Air Force's F-15E's and B-2s, contains 1.5 metric tons of depleted uranium, compared to only five kilograms in the 120 mm shell.

And there is a lawsuit:

http://www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi/2067.html

Sam,

You are using the same sites as Foley was using. They all use the same source (the USA Today graphic) to claim that the weapon is filled with DU. No where does that Graphic show/claim that the weapon uses DU.

Tungsten and many other materials could be in there. No one knows- it is Classified.

So please stop claiming that their is DU in the GBU-28 because there is no way for you to know.


A lawsuit means nothing Sam. There is no proof to their claims. I could sue you Sam, doesnt mean I am right in my suit or that I would win. In the American Legal system you can sue anyone for anything.

A 5,000lb bomb being dropped and you are worried about possible DU LOL

Sam,

You are using the same sites as Foley was using. They all use the same source (the USA Today graphic) to claim that the weapon is filled with DU. No where does that Graphic show/claim that the weapon uses DU.

Tungsten and many other materials could be in there. No one knows- it is Classified.

So please stop claiming that their is DU in the GBU-28 because there is no way for you to know.


A lawsuit means nothing Sam. There is no proof to their claims. I could sue you Sam, doesnt mean I am right in my suit or that I would win. In the American Legal system you can sue anyone for anything.

If it was tungsten, why would it be classified?

Yes, it would, because of the way it may be shaped, length vs. width, ballistic coefficients, and just the military mind set. I have posted legitimate sites on the use of DU and how and what it is used for, and you are using a magazine whose reporters don't know the difference between a BLU-109 and GBU-28, and the fact that they are two completely different weapons systems, they cannot be piggy backed to one another just look at the design, the only thing the might have in common is the laser guidance system that guides them.

Yes, it would, because of the way it may be shaped, length vs. width, ballistic coefficients, and just the military mind set. I have posted legitimate sites on the use of DU and how and what it is used for, and you are using a magazine whose reporters don't know the difference between a BLU-109 and GBU-28, and the fact that they are two completely different weapons systems, they cannot be piggy backed to one another just look at the design, the only thing the might have in common is the laser guidance system that guides them.

I think you are confused.

To save time, practically all parts of the new bomb, designated GBU-28/B, were modified off-the-shelf components. The body of the BLU-113/B warhead was made of surplus U.S. Army M201 howitzer gun barrels, the nose cone and the explosive was from the BLU-109/B, and the WGU-36/B guidance package was a GBU-24/B Paveway III GCU with software modifications to handle the different aerodynamics of the new LGB. The final decision to go ahead with development and deployment of the weapon came on 13 February 1991, followed only 11 days later by the successful drop test of the first prototype. Another three days later, GBU-28/B prototypes number three and four were dropped on an Iraqi bunker.

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app5/index.html

Kinetic energy happens when objects meet at high speed, DU ignites when subject to heat and kinetic energy is dissipated in heat, the bomb contains explosives that are heat sensitive, under confinement, DU would not work as a bomb casing, as it would prematurely detonate the weapon, interfering with proper function and penetration, I can already figure out how to prematurely detonate a DU cased bomb. And as far as D.U. bombs in Kosovo, You will need to provide more proof than U.S. news, that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground about weapons systems.


Incendiary properties - Depleted uranium burns. It is something like magnesium in this regard. If you heat uranium up in an oxygen environment (normal air), it will ignite and burn with an extremely intense flame. Once inside the target, burning uranium is another part of the bomb's destructive power.

Kenitic energy happens when objects meet at high speed, DU ignites when subject to heat and kenitic energy is disapated in heat, the bomb contains explosives that are heat sensitive, under confinement, DU would not work as a bomb casing, as it would preamaturely detonat the weapon, interfering with proper function and penatration, I can already figure out how to prematurely detonate a DU cased bomb.
Incendiary properties - Depleted uranium burns. It is something like magnesium in this regard. If you heat uranium up in an oxygen environment (normal air), it will ignite and burn with an extremely intense flame. Once inside the target, burning uranium is another part of the bomb's destructive power.

But you don't understand chemistry. They can use an alloy. They need metals having a density of at least 15 gm/cc so there are many options, e.g., tantalum, tungsten, rhenium which can be used alongwith uranium to decrease its incendiary properties.
---------
And there are many uranium alloys possible
http://web.ead.anl.gov/uranium/guide/ucompound/propertiesu/table1.cfm

----------

And you can reduce its corrosion rate with alloys
http://web.ead.anl.gov/uranium/guide/ucompound/propertiesu/pic15.cfm


---------
And although that link says there are no effects of DU, recent studies have shown that there are:

And as far as D.U. bombs in Kosovo, You will need to provide more proof than U.S. news, thet don't know their ass from a hole in the ground about weapons systems.


Gulf veteran babies 'risk deformities'
Children of British soldiers who fought in wars in which depleted uranium ammunition was used are at greater risk of suffering genetic diseases passed on by their fathers, new research reveals.
Veterans of the conflicts in the Gulf, Bosnia and Kosovo have been found to have up to 14 times the usual level of chromosome abnormalities in their genes. That has raised fears they will pass cancers and genetic illnesses to their offspring. The study is the first to analyse chromosome deformation in soldiers.
'High levels of genetic damage do not occur naturally. It increases the probability of cancer, deformed babies and other genetic conditions significantly,' said Professor Albrecht Schott, a German biochemist who co-ordinated the research.
Schott collected blood samples from 16 British veterans last year. Fourteen had fought in the Gulf war, one of whom also served in Bosnia. Of the others, one served only in Kosovo and one only in Bosnia. Two of the veterans are women. The former soldiers have between double and 14 times the usual level of chromosome abnormalities. The average was five-and-a-half times higher than found in civilians. None had less than double the normal rate.
A spokesman for the MoD dismissed Schott's findings. 'We consider the tests neither well thought out nor scientifically sound,' he said.
Last month the MoD said it was launching an investigation after a study revealed 19 Gulf veterans had developed lymphatic or bone marrow cancers compared with 11 in a control group. (The Observer August 11, 2002)
-----------
Eight British veterans of the conflicts in the Gulf, Bosnia and Kosovo have high levels of deformed chromosomes, increasing the risks of cancers and abnormalities in their children. Six of the men saw action in the Gulf, and one of this six also served in Bosnia. Of the remaining two, one served only in Kosovo and one only in Bosnia.
Initial results of the study, investigating chromosome deformation in white blood cells of the soldiers, reveals genetic damage in the group at least 10 times greater than that found in the general population.
Professor Albrecht Schott, a retired chemist who worked at the Free University of Berlin until recently, is co-ordinating the research. His results will be published early in 2002. (The Express (UK) December 24, 2001)

The results of the study were published in March 2003:
Chromosome aberration analysis in peripheral lymphocytes of Gulf war and Balkans war veterans, by H. Schröder, A. Heimers, R. Frentzel-Beyme, A. Schott and W. Hoffmann, in: Radiation Protection Dosimetry vol. 103 no. 3, pp 211-220 (2003).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed

--------


And here is a patent for the BLU-109

Patent No:6,389,977
Dec 11, 1997
Shrouded Aerial Bomb [BLU-109/B and variants]

This is definitive patent for the outer casing of the upgraded GUB-15, 24,27, 31 and AGM-

130C warheads. The shroud contains the AUP-116 advanced penetrator.

This patent specifically identifies BOTH Tungsten AND Depleted Uranium penetrator versions

Claims:
5. The shrouded aerial bomb as claimed in claim 1, wherein
the penetrating body is formed of depleted uranium.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MIR306A.html

--------

And NATO has admitted the use of DU in Kosovo:
The use of depleted uranium shells by US forces in the current war in the Balkans was confirmed in a US Department of Defense News Briefing on May 3. It is the first direct confirmation from a representative of the Department of Defense.

http://www10.antenna.nl/wise/index.html?http://www10.antenna.nl/wise/511/5028.html

Here is the patent information:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=6,389,977&OS=6,389,977&RS=6,389,977

I have one question, in Bosnia the U.S. deployed tanks as a peace keeping force and they didn't fire 10 of thousand of rounds in Kosovo, the report mixes the Bosnian and the gulf war together, so I have to question the veracity of the report and the fact that they didn't post the supposed release from NATO, and again there is no proof in any publication that D.U. is used in aerial bombs, there is a statement that they are looking at it for advanced penetrators but those are not on line as of yet,in Iraq yes, they used D.P. projectiles in anti armor application, but again no proof that it was used in aerial bombs, so how about some site proof that shows that such bombs exist in the real world not on the drawing board or a reporters to vivid imagination.

One other thing use the measurement, dimensions and calculate the weight of the bomb against the known properties of D.U. and you will find that for the size the weight would have to be 30% heaver than the listed weights.

So the US Patent office, a peer-reviewed Pubmed paper and the Directory of GBU is a vivid imagination?

Well, there are none so blind as they who won't see.

One other thing use the measurement, dimensions and calculate the weight of the bomb against the known properties of D.U. and you will find that for the size the weight would have to be 30% heaver than the listed weights.

Well you're the expert.

"If it was tungsten, why would it be classified?"

Why would the US Military post the composition and design of one of its weapon systems? Does Iran post the composition and design of its Missles and bombs? Of course not.

I tell you what Sam, you get Iran to publish the design and capabilities of their ballistic missles and i'll get the US to publish the designs and capabilites of its bombs.

If anything the US provides MORE info than other countries on their weapons. Do you know of an Iranian site that posts as much info about their capabilities? Iran is building a nuclear reactor (we will not debate the purpose). Iran will have DU left over from the fuel cycle. How do you know that Iran will not put DU in their weapons? You think the Chinese and Russians dont??

Sam, the US is not the only country.

"If it was tungsten, why would it be classified?"

Why would the US Military post the composition and design of one of its weapon systems? Does Iran post the composition and design of its Missles and bombs? Of course not.

I tell you what Sam, you get Iran to publish the design and capabilities of their ballistic missles and i'll get the US to publish the designs and capabilites of its bombs.

If anything the US provides MORE info than other countries on their weapons. Do you know of an Iranian site that posts as much info about their capabilities? Iran is building a nuclear reactor (we will not debate the purpose). Iran will have DU left over from the fuel cycle. How do you know that Iran will not put DU in their weapons? You think the Chinese and Russians dont??

Sam, the US is not the only country.

The Iranians don't need the US specifications; they'll just buy them from China who buys them from Israel who buys them from the US :D

I was wondering how those TOW missles wound up in Hezbollahs hands...

I was wondering how those TOW missles wound up in Hezbollahs hands...

Well the US also sells to Angola, Chad, Colombia, Ethiopia, Israel, Pakistan, and the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Jordan, Afghanistan, and Bahrain. Never know where the arms are circulating.

Isn't democracy fun?

The TOW missile has been in production since 1976 in Iran, Iran under the Shah had a military trade alliance with us and had a lisence to produce TOW missile components as early as 1974.
During the Shah's time, the USA delivered over 3400 TOW missiles to IRAN and 250 launchers.
Additionally, the TOW and TOW2 missiles are used in over 40 countries. Any one of which could have transfered the technology to IRAN.

D.U. is Heavy metal and is poisonous and many of the symptoms shown by the soldiers are of heavy metal poisoning, which would also cause all the health problems showing up.


The genotoxic properties of DU are far below those required for chemical toxicity.
It causes chromosomal breaks and DNA damage at very very low levels of contamination.

Burkart,W
The radiological uranium and chemical properties of DU can be compared to those ... low levels of a multitude of genotoxic and non-genotoxic Burkart agents. ...
http://lib.bioinfo.pl/auth:Burkart,W



Properties, use and health effects of depleted uranium (DU): a general overview.
A Bleise, P R Danesi, W Burkart
Depleted uranium (DU), a waste product of uranium enrichment, has several civilian and military applications. It was used as armor-piercing ammunition in international military conflicts and was claimed to contribute to health problems, known as the Gulf War Syndrome and recently as the Balkan Syndrome. This led to renewed efforts to assess the environmental consequences and the health impact of the use of DU. The radiological and chemical properties of DU can be compared to those of natural uranium, which is ubiquitously present in soil at a typical concentration of 3 mg/kg. Natural uranium has the same chemotoxicity, but its radiotoxicity is 60% higher. Due to the low specific radioactivity and the dominance of alpha-radiation no acute risk is attributed to external exposure to DU. The major risk is DU dust, generated when DU ammunition hits hard targets. Depending on aerosol speciation, inhalation may lead to a protracted exposure of the lung and other organs. After deposition on the ground, resuspension can take place if the DU containing particle size is sufficiently small. However, transfer to drinking water or locally produced food has little potential to lead to significant exposures to DU. Since poor solubility of uranium compounds and lack of information on speciation precludes the use of radioecological models for exposure assessment, biomonitoring has to be used for assessing exposed persons. Urine, feces, hair and nails record recent exposures to DU. With the exception of crews of military vehicles having been hit by DU penetrators, no body burdens above the range of values for natural uranium have been found. Therefore, observable health effects are not expected and residual cancer risk estimates have to be based on theoretical considerations. They appear to be very minor for all post-conflict situations, i.e. a fraction of those expected from natural radiation.
J Environ Radioact. 2003 ;64:93-112 [Pubmed] [Scholar] [SelectDrop] [HideShow] cited: 1
On the mechanism of action of vitamin K in vertebrates and bacteria.
C Martius, W Burkart, R Stalder
FEBS Lett. 1971 Nov 1;18:257-260

From http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MIR306A.html (one of the sources listed)
The upgrade involves replacing a conventional warhead by a heavy, dense metal one.
Nope - a DU warhead in a bunker buster wouldn't explode...
GBU-28 is not one of those listed in that source as using DU (and AFAIK GBU-15 doesn't actually use DU either, it's very old weapon, especially the CWW version... The GBU-28 is made from old 8-inch gun barrels- hence the slimness.
Uranium can be engineered to be "self-sharpening" so that when it hits a target, it retains its punching point as material erodes off the warhead (titanium and tungsten will not do this). Uranium’s molecular structure can re-formed, using metallurgical and "nano-technologies" to deliver a selected range of ballistic features, including kinetic, thermal, pyrophoric, liquid metal and high-pressure/high-heat, plasma effects. from the same source. DU is naturally self-sharpening - but only against dense armour: kinetic, thermal, pyrophoric etc effects are inherent (it's a misch metal) and not caused by "nano-technologies". Titainium? Even the mention of that metal casts doubt on the credibility of the source - titanium was AFAIK never considered as warhead/ penetrator, too light. Tunsgten or osmium would be better.
"If it was tungsten, why would it be classified?"
Probably, almost certainly, because it's not pure tungsten - it's an alloy and the specific composition is what makes it so effective.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster.htm

After doing some checking and calculations this weekend I can state that the GBU-28 does NOT use DU at all, it's physically impossible to have any DU and maintain the weight limits of the weapon. Neither does any of the GBUs listed in that article or the BLU-109, and it should be noted that that DU use from AC-130 is an anti-armour weapon and would not be used to any extent Afghanistan.The guy who wrote the article about DU in Afghanistan was "less than accurate" on certain figures and assumptions.

Thank you Oli, I came up with the same figures in my calculations, plus the fact that I'm I have a fair amount of knowledge from personnel contact with the weapons systems, the only time I know of D.U. being used as a penatrator in anti armor use, and I still am finding information that leads me to the conclusion the most of the medical problems are from heavy metal poisoning, and that tungsten penetrators can cause problems if the micro dust is inhaled and absorbed in to the lung tissue and then into the blood stream, and lot more reading to do but working on it.

Hey you two! Stop finding factual information! Its making anti-American propaganda look bad...