View Full Version : US Secretly Funding Chavez Opponents


jps
03-27-04, 10:12 PM
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=04/03/25/0128532
US Revealed to be Secretly Funding Opponents of Chavez

Sunday, Mar 14, 2004

By: Andrew Buncombe, The Independent/UK

March 13, 2004, Washington—Washington has been channeling hundreds of thousands of dollars to fund the political opponents of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez - including those who briefly overthrew the democratically elected leader in a coup two years ago.

Documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that, in 2002, America paid more than a million dollars to those political groups in what it claims is an ongoing effort to build democracy and "strengthen political parties". Mr Chavez has seized on the information, telling Washington to "get its hands off Venezuela".

The revelation about America's funding of Mr Chavez's opponents comes as the president is facing a possible recall referendum and has been rocked by a series of violent street demonstrations in which at least eight people have died. His opponents, who include politicians, some labor leaders, media executives and former managers at the state oil company, are trying to collect sufficient signatures to force a national vote. The documents reveal that one of the group's organizing the collection of signatures - Sumate - received $53,400 (£30,000) from the US last September.

Jeremy Bigwood, a Washington-based freelance journalist who obtained the documents, yesterday told The Independent: "This repeats a pattern started in Nicaragua in the election of 1990 when [the US] spent $20 per voter to get rid of [the Sandinista President Daniel] Ortega. It's done in the name of democracy but it's rather hypocritical. Venezuela does have a democratically elected President who won the popular vote which is not the case with the US."

The funding has been made by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) a non-profit agency financed entirely by Congress. It distributes $40m (£22m) a year to various groups in what it says is an effort to strengthen democracy.

But critics of the NED say the organization routinely meddles in other countries' affairs to support groups that believe in free enterprise, minimal government intervention in the economy and opposition to socialism in any form. In recent years, the NED has channeled funds to the political opponents of the recently ousted Haitian president Jean-Bertrand Aristide at the same time that Washington was blocking loans to his government.
The hypocricy here is astounding. In a nutshell: A group called the "National Endowment for Democracy" of all things, who's funding comes entirely from the US government, is working to undermine democratically elected left-wing governments, while the US government is making the argument(which most US citizens accept) that we had to go to war on Iraq to bring them democracy.

Its interesting to note that Chavez is one of several world leaders who refuses to recognize Haiti's new dictator, asserting that the countries democratically elected President is still the rightful head of state, which much be especially annoying given the US governments assertion that their carefully orchestrated military coup is a "triumph for democracy"

Given the US' long history of overthrowing democratic governments and installing brutal dictators in their place, any suggestion by any US president that they are bringing democracy anywhere should be met with great skepticism, if not laughter. Its unfortunate that the media doesn't see fit to report on these things and allows the citizens of the US to base their opinions and votes on all available information.

The fact that most people do accept bringing democracy to Iraq as a justification for war while their country has just overthrown a democratically elected government and is working to overthrow another is a good example of how the corporate media make the US a de facto plutocracy. People watch the news, read the papers, and listen to the radio, and then consider themselveswell informed about current events, and go and vote based on the information they gleaned from those sources, which, more often than not, is so biased that anyone basing their views on them cannot help but have certain opinions.

Undecided
03-27-04, 10:40 PM
Is this supposed to shock and awe? The US, and Latin America, you tell me?

jps
03-27-04, 11:02 PM
If you read my comments you'll see that the post is not just about the well-established fact that the US tends to overthrow democracies in latin america.

This may seem unsurprising to people here and nothing new, but the fact that most US citizens accept that the US has legitimacy in claiming to be any kind of force for democracy shows that this information would shock and awe them.

Imagine if you will the following situation. China recruits, arms, and back 300 insurgents in Taiwan to overthrow the government, then sends in troops to disarm the insurgents and declares that it is a great day for democracy. Then it starts sending money to groups in india working to stage a coup against the democratic government there. Then it invades North Korea which the alleged intent of installing democracy.
What do you think the response of the world community would be?

Undecided
03-27-04, 11:10 PM
What do you think the response of the world community would be?

Well in the case of China, who cares? I hate comments like those as well, but in this instance I must say it. Who is going to challenge the Chinese in the future? Not even the US, so the same principle applies to the US. The US is propagating the same failed foreign policy that has created, and fuels the anti-Americanism that has swept the world like a fire. Remember every effect has it cause. Only the US is responsible for this hatred, replacing democratically elected gov'ts from Iran, Chile, to now it seems Venezuela. The US is a world power unlike another in history, its power lies in the hands of the ppl of the country, and they are directly accountable for the actions of their gov't.

but the fact that most US citizens accept that the US has legitimacy in claiming to be any kind of force for democracy shows that this information would shock and awe them.


I really don't think so, Americans no matter what will believe that they are the "good force" in this world. If some “unknown nation” stands in her "goodwill, and benevolent" path of "Freedom, and democracy" then it must be rid of. *Flowers and kisses*. Americans like the NK's are fighting for good in this world...*rolleyes* can’t you see?

jps
03-27-04, 11:19 PM
The US is a world power unlike another in history, its power lies in the hands of the ppl of the country, and they are directly accountable for the actions of their gov't.
Except that we have a de facto plutocracy, as I explained.

I really don't think so, Americans no matter what will believe that they are the "good force" in this world. If some “unknown nation” stands in her "goodwill, and benevolent" path of "Freedom, and democracy" then it must be rid of. *Flowers and kisses*. Americans like the NK's are fighting for good in this world...*rolleyes* can’t you see?
As long as all the informatio available to them supports that position of course they will, but a real understanding of the countries history and current events would change that.

Undecided
03-27-04, 11:30 PM
As long as all the informatio available to them supports that position of course they will, but a real understanding of the countries history and current events would change that.

Let's face some facts here empirically on this site. You see certain posters reject reality, vehemently! The American ppl are not the smartest bunch on earth, no fault of their own. The US media has monopolized the American intellect, and the Media is thusly controlled by some mega-billionaires at the top. The American education system makes their pupils rather ignorant on things like Geography for a reason. In these days of international polarization, America is stuck in a rut of sorts; it is equally split btwn the right, and left. The Depeche Mode Song said it best Get the balance right which is not happening here. The American ppl care about three things:

- Consumer products
- Quality of life
- Patriotism.

Venezuela (if Chavez does go on his 100 year embargo?) can greatly destabilize the US economically, and the normal American will have their quality of life go down. Gas prices are already very high (by a consumers standpoint), and at $40 a barrel, further destabilization in Venezuela will cause the US to cut its economic growth. Venezuela has been Latin America's true Plutocracy if you want to talk about that. I would not be surprised if another one is installed "democratically" of course.

jps
03-27-04, 11:39 PM
Thats mostly true enough, although I'd characterize American politics as equally split between far-right and moderate-right. However, what if the media started reporting objectively and unselectively? What if the article I posted appeared on the front page of the NY Times? The people of the US are not stupid, they are ignorant, and ignorance can be corrected by the proper application of information.

As for Chavez, I agree that we're likely to see a "triumph for democracy" in Venezuela in the near future.

otheadp
03-28-04, 12:32 AM
Purpose of Infoshop.org: ... Infoshop.org exists as an ecumenical online resource for the anarchist movement, which aims to promote all forms of anti-capitalist anarchism to the greater public.
taken from the site JPS provided

Stokes Pennwalt
03-28-04, 12:41 AM
http://webpages.charter.net/rylandpage/hegemonycricket.gif

jps
03-28-04, 12:54 AM
taken from the site JPS provided

By: Andrew Buncombe, The Independent/UK
Taken from the article i posted. You can read it at their site too if you pay for it.

otheadp
03-28-04, 01:38 AM
omg...... me actually paying to read that rag? lmao!
no thanks

Undecided
03-28-04, 03:01 PM
What was the intellectual merit of the last 4 posts? Says a lot children, says a lot.

otheadp
03-28-04, 03:11 PM
this coming from a 17 year old

Undecided
03-28-04, 03:12 PM
Excuse me oth, you have shown you are nothing more then a racist, a source for about half the logical fallacies committed on this forum, and you almost got banned. You are not the smartest of the bunch and you and you alone show it. Alas this thread...do you want me to explain things to you again? :cool:

otheadp
03-28-04, 03:16 PM
means a lot coming from a 17 year old (who by the way did get banned and had to change his nickname)

otheadp
03-28-04, 03:17 PM
wanna start another thread about your maturity? lmao

Undecided
03-28-04, 03:21 PM
I will stop the intellectual bankruptcy here, it was fun to see how you don't have ANY argumentations against ANYTHING your intellectual superiors throw at you. Good day! *Tips hat*

jps
03-28-04, 03:23 PM
I think defending the veracity of my source has merit.
I'm rather dissapointed that this post has gotten so few serious responses.
Although it shouldn't be a surprise to any educated person that the US is working to undermine democracy in latin american countries, what isn't as often discussed is the seemingly obvious effect this must have on the credibility of any US claims of supporting democracy elsewhere.

otheadp
03-28-04, 03:29 PM
I will stop the intellectual bankruptcy here
good. time for your afternoon nap

I think defending the veracity of my source has merit.
this article, it seems, only says "US funds Chavez's opponents"

i have some questions though -
how much money is spent by Chavez per voter?
do the other parties in Venezuela have any power at all? is Chavez undermining them from within?

jps
03-28-04, 03:47 PM
i have some questions though -
how much money is spent by Chavez per voter?
do the other parties in Venezuela have any power at all? is Chavez undermining them from within?
I don't see why it matters how much Chavez or his opponents spend per voter if they're not recieving money from foreign governments.
The other parties clearly have some power if they've managed to force a recall referendum.

otheadp
03-28-04, 04:28 PM
i don't know much about the subject. from first look it seems like US is interfering with another country's democratic government, which they shouldn't do.

but i have to see the other side of the story before i make a balanced judgement.

why do you think the US would fund Chavez's opposition?

Undecided
03-28-04, 04:33 PM
why do you think the US would fund Chavez's opposition?

Hmmmmmmmmm...one can only wonder as to why? Why oh why? Get a clue oth, its been said repeatedly in this thread.