View Full Version : US Crowd Control in Iraq.


EI_Sparks
07-21-03, 02:59 PM
Yup, this is how you win hearts and minds...
From Reuters (http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3122122)

http://billmon.org/archives/protest.gif

U.S. Troops Fix Bayonets Against Iraqi Crowd
Sun July 20, 2003 04:07 PM ET
By Miral Fahmy
NAJAF, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. Marines fixed bayonets on Sunday to disperse an angry crowd of 10,000 Iraqi Shi'ites in the holy city of Najaf after tempers flared over rumors of U.S. harassment of a radical cleric.
Marchers dispersed after two hours but some of the Shi'ite cleric's supporters warned of an "uprising" in the city if the Americans failed to pull out within three days.
"If they don't leave, they will face a popular uprising," said Sayed Razak al-Moussawi, an aide to the anti-U.S. cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.
Protesters presented the U.S. forces with a list of demands.
Under a fierce sun, aides to Sadr struggled to restrain his supporters and the show of force by the Marines halted the march on the U.S. administration office in the dusty and impoverished city, 160 km (100 miles) south of Baghdad.
In heated negotiations, nose-to-nose with one of Sadr's aides, the U.S. commander in Najaf, Lieutenant-Colonel Chris Conlin, denied reports his men had surrounded Sadr's house on Saturday and warned his men would respond if threatened.
Passions sparked by the incident were indicative of problems facing U.S. troops among the long-oppressed Shi'ite majority. Attacks on U.S. troops since the fall of Saddam Hussein have mostly been by Sunni Muslims.
Many protesters were bussed into Najaf from Baghdad's poor Shi'ite bastion, Sadr -- formerly Saddam -- City. Others rode in on battered pick-up trucks and even ambulances.
"Moqtada, have no fear, your army of volunteers is here," they chanted, rhythmically beating their chests in a traditional Shi'ite ritual. "We would sacrifice our lives for you."
The demonstration set off from the gold-domed Imam Ali mosque. Carrying banners, the crowd circled the mosaic-encrusted shrine, inspiring worshippers to join in their political chants.
"Long live Sadr; America and its government in Iraq are infidels," cried Ayyad Abdullah, who like many protesters, wore the white shroud in which Muslims are buried. "Moqtada can give the Shi'ites everything they want. We'd happily die for him."
Conlin said he believed Sadr had limited support in Najaf, where other, more senior religious figures are based.
Sadr, a young cleric with limited religious authority, denounced the U.S. occupation of Iraq in a sermon on Friday and condemned U.S. efforts to launch self-rule by a new Governing Council.

DJSupreme23
07-21-03, 03:06 PM
What our dear Sparks fails to mention is:

Had Saddam still been in power, every one of these 10.000 demonstrators would end up with a bullet in the skull. Morte. Dead. Auf wiedersehen.

But Sparks still manages to spin this as a negative thing.

Carnuth
07-21-03, 03:12 PM
live free or die

free from saddam or the us, it doesnt matter

aghart
07-21-03, 03:17 PM
Against a crowd like that normal (ulster) style action would have caused massive escalation, with the crowds in that sort of frenzy.

Sparks, Fixing baynets is a good pscyological move. It makes even the most frenzied crowd think twice and could be the difference between protest and a bloodbath. The US forces are in quagmire they can't get out of. The blame must be put on the very slow progress the US administration in Iraq is making of returning the country to the Iraqi people. They have got to pull their finger out, then they can pull the army out.

EI_Sparks
07-21-03, 03:21 PM
Interesting point aghart, though I'd point out that fixing bayonets against a civilian crowd in Belfast would have been one of the last orders given by a british officer in northern Ireland - if the crowd hadn't had a fit, then the newspapers would. Someone would have been given marching orders rather sharpish.

Plus, these were not british troops with crowd control training - these are the same troops that have been shooting unarmed civilians since the start of the invasion.

SuperFudd
07-21-03, 03:30 PM
Looks like Iran is making it's move.

EI_Sparks
07-21-03, 03:44 PM
Looks like Iran is making it's move.
:bugeye:

Now the explaination for that is something I've just got to hear...

DeeCee
07-21-03, 04:28 PM
Those crazy Iraqis!
Why can't they just settle down and get jobs at Mc Donalds for minimum wage? I mean the 'Hulk' is out now at their local multiplex and Justin Timberlake has a new single so there's plenty for them to look forward to. IMHO they're just a bunch of racist anti Americans. Help me out here Jarrek!

:D :D
Dee Cee

Ghassan Kanafani
07-21-03, 04:49 PM
Looks like Iran is making it's move.

Sure Superfud , no way it can merely be the Shia population of Iraq that suffers under everlasting Imperialist occupation because of the USA ......... no its obviously the axis of eeeeeeeeeeevil making moves .

So lets invade Iran then , no ? Come on , it may not be on to-be Israeli territory but it surely is annoying and sits on loads of oil ....

So tell us Superfud , what do you think that should be done ?

Had Saddam still been in power, every one of these 10.000 demonstrators would end up with a bullet in the skull.

There would not be such demonstration in the first place . Your point DJ ?

aghart
07-21-03, 10:56 PM
There would not be such demonstration in the first place . Your point DJ ?

The point he is making is that the Iraqi people would not have dared make a protest like that, and also the fact that a protest has to be organised which would have been impossible in Iraq under Saddam because the secret police would know about it within seconds.

GuitarToadster
07-22-03, 01:21 AM
Noooooo, you are missing the point. If Saddam was still there tempers wouldn't have flared from rumors of the U.S. harrassing a cleric. Simple. This was not a revolt against a government official but rather a revolt at (rumored) unfair treatment of a cleric by scared, stupid American soldiers.

If anything we should know by now, don't mess with Muslims' beliefs in ANY WAY! Duh!

Muslims simply don't mosey down to church on Sunday to pray... they LIVE what they believe. Eat, sleep, breathe it, get a clue!

Screw around with their clerics and faith and you have what happened.

Make your comments based on what actually happened, not what you think wouldn't/would have happened if it was a different situation. "Maybe if the Fairy God Mother was the Leader of Iraq" type of statements do not contribute anything but humor. Unfortunately for you, you were not being funny.

Ghassan Kanafani
07-22-03, 03:10 AM
Aqhart
The point he is making is that the Iraqi people would not have dared make a protest like that, and also the fact that a protest has to be organised which would have been impossible in Iraq under Saddam because the secret police would know about it within seconds.

No the point is that Iraq did not get "liberated" for the privilage of demonstrating against occupyers who harass clerics because of tewrowrorists or whatever .

Guitar :
they LIVE what they believe. Eat, sleep, breathe it, get a clue!

We even live it without believing . But hey most of us arent so crazy as those Shia loonies :D

Most Sunni r actually laid back really ....

But in any ways yes ..... weither practiced intensly or laid back , Islam = Deen , an entire system of life .

As for those Shia , they'll have an uprising eventually ....
:(

That could get really ugly , and IMO its not the way to go .