US 911 Victim Families
Hold Vigil In Baghdad
By Huda Majeed Saleh
1-8-3


BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Lighting candles and singing songs of peace, relatives of victims of the Sept. 11 attacks Wednesday visited a Baghdad shelter bombed during the Gulf War.

"Suffering is universal. It connects us and we've bonded together in that suffering," said Kristina Olsen, a nurse from Massachusetts, as she sat among Iraqi children on the steps of al-Amiriyah shelter where more than 400 civilians burned to death in February 1991.

Olsen, 44, is one of four women members of Peaceful Tomorrows, an anti-war group founded by families of Sept. 11 victims, visiting Iraq on a six-day peace mission.

"I do not want to see the beauty of the world wasted on us, that is simply why we are here ... we want to do everything within our power to prevent this war against Iraq," said Olsen, who lost her 49-year-old sister Laurie on September 11, 2001.

Washington is massing troops in the Gulf and has threatened to attack Iraq unless it gives up its alleged chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Iraq denies having such arms.

"My heart has been ripped open and healing has taken place within me today," she said. "I hope that some sort of healing is taking place for some other people, the Iraqi people who have shared their stories with us and who have received our love and compassion."

Playing a guitar, Olsen, also a singer and songwriter, sang about compassion and understanding.

"If you want to sum up why we are here, understanding is the key. In coming and meeting people, in hearing their stories and listening to them," she said.

Terry Rockefeller of Massachusetts said Americans did not realize how much they had in common with the Iraqi people.

"I am concerned that there are people back in America who do not know enough about the Iraqi people. I think my job is to return and share my story of what I've learned," said Rockefeller, who lost a sister in the hijacked airliner attacks.

She said the team spent the day visiting a hospital and the home of an ordinary Iraqi family.

"I've found immediately an understanding of what we have gone through which is something that you do not always find in America," said New Yorker Colleen Kelly, who lost her brother William in the World Trade Center.

"We are here meeting with the Iraqi families but we are equally concerned for service people around the world who would be involved in any kind of a military operation," Kelly said.

That's pretty stupid. They're holding a vigil in Iraq who actively sponsors terrorist attacks on Israeli and US targets. I hope they rott.

Originally posted by Kyle_S
That's pretty stupid. They're holding a vigil in Iraq who actively sponsors terrorist attacks on Israeli and US targets. I hope they rott.

Oh yes, Iraq actively sponsors terrorists... mhmm...

I think you may be missing the point, Kyle. These people were directly effected by what happened on Sept. 11th yet they are preaching a message of peace - especailly with the place that inflicted it - in that I mean the Middle East. They are not crying out for revenge! They are telling the world that these are a people who have also experienced loss and pain and that continued violence won't solve anything - it just perpetuates loss and pain.

It's about time we consider that lives of a lot of innocent people are at stake here. If you want to be angry - then fine be angry. I can't stop you - but realize that that blind hate is what causes things like the Sept. 11th attack in the first place. And, I'll tell you right now, I can guarantee they have a hell of a lot more to be angry about than you do!

Originally posted by Kyle_S
That's pretty stupid. They're holding a vigil in Iraq who actively sponsors terrorist attacks on Israeli and US targets. I hope they rott.

Prove it.

i agree

it requires more courage to preach peace than war

i admire them as much as that guy who stood on the steps of the tasi court and said that he was glade that briant didnt get the death penelty

Originally posted by Kyle_S
That's pretty stupid. They're holding a vigil in Iraq who actively sponsors terrorist attacks on Israeli and US targets. I hope they rott.

Your statements are very stupid. If Sadam and his government sponsor terrorist attacks that does not mean that people of Iraq are responsible. US (and UK) are going to bombard people of Iraq (like they did in 1991.) and not Sadam and his accomplices.
I hope you'll think about it. ;)

Originally posted by Kyle_S
That's pretty stupid. They're holding a vigil in Iraq who actively sponsors terrorist attacks on Israeli and US targets. I hope they rott. No prove that Iraq was involved in 9/11, no prove that they maintain Al-Quaida , they may sympathize by a common enemy. But sympathizes should not be a crime. They invaded
Kuwait for own reason that are really worth to take in retrospective since during the Iraq-Iran war, Iraq & Kuwait were the protectorates of US and England. ..I was there! After the war with Iran, Iraq find out that Kuwait and US had separated deals were Iraq was secretly pushed aside.
In Islamic values Kuwait was a traitor and they decided to attempt in changing the Kuwaiti government. …what’s the crime in that?
Sadam used own people as guinea-pigs for biological tests? So did the US, during the 50’s to 60’s exposed thousands of troops to radioactive tests. Few died on the spot and thousands died from the side effects years later.

So, …400 or so blown to pieces in a shelter and we are wondering why do we have terrorists?

Terrorism is obviously a by-product of our actions and the actions we allow to take place by simply by-standing.

Originally posted by Adam
Prove it. So bombing Israel during the Gulf War wasn't terrorism? Donating $25k to the families of suicide bombers isn't supporting terrorism? Trafficing weapons with no military purpose?
Originally posted by Adriatic
Your statements are very stupid. If Sadam and his government sponsor terrorist attacks that does not mean that people of Iraq are responsible. US (and UK) are going to bombard people of Iraq (like they did in 1991.) and not Sadam and his accomplices.
I hope you'll think about it. ;) You're right, the people of Iraq don't actively support the policies of Saddam. So we'll do them a favor and kill saddam, occupy their nation, and rebuild it. Sound good? I thought so.

We'll distribute the food that seems to never make its way to the population, we'll build industry that gives their economy something other than oil, and we'll plant a constitution to our liking.

Originally posted by Kyle_S
So bombing Israel during the Gulf War wasn't terrorism? Donating $25k to the families of suicide bombers isn't supporting terrorism? Trafficing weapons with no military purpose?
You're right, the people of Iraq don't actively support the policies of Saddam. So we'll do them a favor and kill saddam, occupy their nation, and rebuild it. Sound good? I thought so.

We'll distribute the food that seems to never make its way to the population, we'll build industry that gives their economy something other than oil, and we'll plant a constitution to our liking. You seem to be referring to the Red Cross!

US have never done that, what make you so convinced that it will happen this time? …The petrol?

Originally posted by Microzoft
No prove that Iraq was involved in 9/11, no prove that they maintain Al-Quaida , they may sympathize by a common enemy. But sympathizes should not be a crime. They invaded
Kuwait for own reason that are really worth to take in retrospective since during the Iraq-Iran war, Iraq & Kuwait were the protectorates of US and England. ..I was there! After the war with Iran, Iraq find out that Kuwait and US had separated deals were Iraq was secretly pushed aside.
In Islamic values Kuwait was a traitor and they decided to attempt in changing the Kuwaiti government. …what’s the crime in that?
Sadam used own people as guinea-pigs for biological tests? So did the US, during the 50’s to 60’s exposed thousands of troops to radioactive tests. Few died on the spot and thousands died from the side effects years later.

So, …400 or so blown to pieces in a shelter and we are wondering why do we have terrorists?

Terrorism is obviously a by-product of our actions and the actions we allow to take place by simply by-standing.

The difference between me and you is blame; I don't care who is at fault for terrorism or what the root causes are. Your claims are unsubstantiated and don't reflect the psychology of the situation. But regardless it doesn't matter why terrorism began, it only matters that it ends.

And as such, Iraq represents one of the many problems of the region. It's dominated by an oppressive elite which actively propagates the anti-western sentiments of the region. This in itself is unacceptable. The fact that they go out of their way to subvert efforts for peace with Israel and seeks nuclear weapons merely stack the cards against them.

The problems of the region are relics of the cold war, and are spurred by the success and influence of US culture and the only way to eradicate those sentiments is to destroy the type of regimes that infect places like Iraq. In the ashes of Saddam's regime will be a new government with freedoms and tolerances forced on the population. The rights of women will be mandated, because they will have the most to lose if the system falls into chaos.

When we remove the influence of extremism in Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc, then the situation with the Palestinians will collapse along with the tension between India and Pakistan.

On a side note, don't you people ever proof-read the shit you write? I don't expect perfect posts, but for christ's sake, you could atleast correct some basic errors.

Microzoft incoherently blurted out:
You seem to be referring to the Red Cross!

US have never done that, what make you so convinced that it will happen this time? …The petrol?I don't get what you're saying. The US actively uses special forces troops, among others, to distribute food in various regions of the world.

Try not to smoke :m: before posting, dood.

Originally posted by Kyle_S
So bombing Israel during the Gulf War wasn't terrorism? Donating $25k to the families of suicide bombers isn't supporting terrorism? Bombing Israel was not terrorism, it was bombing one more allied of US during the war.

Giving asylum in our country to Murders and Dictators is not supporting criminals???

Arming the Afghans extremists against the Russians was not supporting terrorism?

Arming the “Bandillas” in South America knowing that they have wiped out villages with innocent people is not supporting terrorism???

Giving social security to families of murders and criminal in US jails, is not supporting murders??
:rolleyes:

Do you ever think that this elitist, ubberman view that most Americans have of themselves, is the same arrogance that pisses people off in the first place?!

There are a lot of atrocities in this world. The United States' goal has never been to help out the Iraqi people nor any other people is it doesn't suit their political agendas! Civil Rights organizations have been pointing out violations in Iraq for years and the US has done nothing. Now that it benefits them - the media is covering "the horror caused by Saddam".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dynpagename=article&node=&contentId=A62531-2002Dec2&notFound=true

Please note the sentiments of Amnesty Internationl:
"There's no question that the regime has an appalling human rights record," said Amnesty spokesman Kamal Samari, who said the group had collected the names of as many as 170,000 Iraqis who had "disappeared" over the past two decades. "But what we don't want to see for Iraq or any other country is that the human rights record is used selectively in order to achieve political goals."

Also, what makes you think that the Americans can do any better anyway? They sure helped out the women in Afganistan.

Check out:
http://www.coveworld.net/mqtcowi/articles/howWeForgotAfghanWomen.txt

And, as if that's not enough, if the documentary that was citied in the thread "German TV airs documentary charging American war crimes in Afghanistan" holds any truth - which really, I'm sure it does - than the American presence holds no better treatment for the people.

I think it's about time Americans got over themselves! I seems to me that ya'll don't exactly have the best record on human rights either. In fact, Amnesty International has ranked the US as the leader in human rights violations following the Sept. 11th attacks.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun2002/amne-j08.shtml

Believing that the United States is the defender of the weak and protector of the innocent and the answer to the worlds problems, is just plain stupid!

The bottom line is that this is all political and will probably do more harm than good - and that most of what is going on in the media internationally is a smokescreen for what is going on in your own country.

Okay, I think that's enough ranting for one day. :)

So bombing Israel during the Gulf War wasn't terrorism?

No, it was an act of war against a state supplying the US war machine with air bases and more.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15183

In fact, like the USA claims to be doing, Iraq was fighting against terrorism. They were among the first to actively engage in this holy little War On Terror (tm):
http://193.194.138.190/Huridocda/Huridoca.nsf/TestFrame/8f7263238243f95ac1256bab00517b66?Opendocument
http://leb.net/~bcome/palestine/no_killed.html



Donating $25k to the families of suicide bombers isn't supporting terrorism?

Are you sure you're not confusing Saddam Hussein with Yasser Arafat?

In any case, as I've pointed out before, relatives of serial killers and mass murderers in the USA are capable of receieving social security payments, pensions. The state gives money to such people. Why? Because in theory at least, there is no guilt by association.


Trafficing weapons with no military purpose?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. Perhaps you could clarify?

Originally posted by Adam

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trafficing weapons with no military purpose?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. Perhaps you could clarify? Adam, I think he is referring to that boat confiscated by the Israelis. Apparently with armament and shipped from Iran to Palestine. “not exactly proven”

He seams to have a different concept for Trafficking. …..Probably he is thinking that Palestinians can continue with the stones for eternity!!

....You have no idea how difficult is to hit a tank with a stone!
:D

Kyle, if you attack terrorism without dealing with the cause of it then it will grow, and more people will join these groups.

To me the root of terrorism is the US foreign policy. Until America changes it's way, until it stops the wholesale slaughter of people to put in their puppet governments, and the list of what it does goes on and on and on. Until that happens these people are going to use every way open to them to fight for their freedom, and that is what they are doing. America can't win against terrorists. All the military in the world couldn't fight an enemy that you don't know who they are or where they are.

Originally posted by RichardJA
To me the root of terrorism is the US foreign policy. Until America changes it's way, until it stops the wholesale slaughter of people to put in their puppet governments Yeah, I'm sure these palestinians are fighting a noble crusade (oops!) against american foreign policy and justice for all. It has nothing to do with their religious extremism, and consistent refusal to accept Israeli peace plans when they were offered.

again i say that for it to be TERRIOUSM it must be POLITICAL and NOT religious

that is the definition


and you go live where you have no rights and see what its like

ops you soon will

well dont cry poor when the world goes "SO?" to you when your "dimocrays" becomes a TRUE dictatorship (its so oviouse watching from the out side if you know ANYTHING about the fall of the republic of rome)