CANADA would not support a US attack on Iraq without UN authorisation, Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien has said during a US visit.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5983301%255E401,00.html

Canada and the great majority of the Security Council. Bush is really going to explode after this, and I hope his mental instability will become more and more obvious to the world as his frustration increases.;)

Will Canada send people to war? Will Canada has conscription again?? Anyone knows???:confused:

Funny how folks rant at the US: they abhor US unilateralism toward Irag (the US really isn't alone in its Iraq policies, it's just not gonna sacrifice its national interest to fickle politically correct unanimity) but advocate for US unilateralism toward N. Korea.

"You can't do it alone with Iraq (no one-on-one with Saddam)! You must do it alone with N. Korea (you must do a one-on-one with Kim)!"

Too funny.

You nailed it, Mr. G.

"Will Canada has conscription again??"

No. It's set up, thank god, so that basically the only way that can happen is if there is a true "homeland threat". Our government does not consider Iraq a homeland thread.

Originally posted by Mr. G
Funny how folks rant at the US: they abhor US unilateralism toward Irag (the US really isn't alone in its Iraq policies, it's just not gonna sacrifice its national interest to fickle politically correct unanimity) but advocate for US unilateralism toward N. Korea.

"You can't do it alone with Iraq (no one-on-one with Saddam)! You must do it alone with N. Korea (you must do a one-on-one with Kim)!"

Too funny.

Who exactly is saying such things? I mean, I'm sure you'd have a point, if you could back that up.

Canada would be foolish not to side with the US. They are economically tied such that the US would find ways to financially gouge Canada and bring their economies to a grinding halt; the softwood lumber dispute being a perfect example of such economical pressure.

Washington is calling to Canada for major reforms to its faltering immigration policies and to apply more pressure to seek out activists operating within its borders.

Security officials in Canada are in complete agreement with the US demands. They obviously understand the full implications for such a course of action and are not advocating the position held by Canada's Prime Minister.

Canada must handle this delicate situation and make careful decisions as to whom they will provide their support, or lack thereof.

Tyler,
No. It's set up, thank god, so that basically the only way that can happen is if there is a true "homeland threat". Our government does not consider Iraq a homeland thread.
Gooood...

You are wrong. Your economy sucks and ours is booming. How can that be? Is it that people don't want to invest in countries that so blatantly and ignorantly want to start a war? Please enlighten us. ***


Moderator Edit – insulting other members is unnecessary

My last post wasn't meant as putting down ALL Americans-just you! I have met many good Americans in my life. It's too bad the minority, you, make the majority look bad. Case in point-after your government figured it was Al-Qaeda, Arabs, the minority in your country decided to prosecute American Arabs! Basically, putting all the apples in one basket.

Norad

Canadian dollar is about 60 cents comparatively – and will drop further. Inflation is running rampant therefore the Bank of Canada will increase interest rates in second quarter. Canadians pay on average 15-20 percent more income tax and approximately 10 percent more sales tax. Natural gas is almost depleted and spiked up 38 percent last week due to cold snap in the east and it is estimated to double. At the pumps, Canadians pay 80-90 cents a liter – US pays about 70 cents. The Retirement fund is almost completely depleted and it is thought the trailing edge baby-boomers will never see a dime of it by the time they retire.

Canada is one of the highest taxed nations in the world. Your infrastructure can't maintain the population.

The youth are fleeing in droves to the US because they’ll never be able to afford buying a house.

We’ll be buying your country 10 cents on the dollar in no time at all.

Yeah, you guys are doing great!

Please enlighten because you seem like the typical arrogant, ignorant American!

Gee, I thought Canadians were a friendly bunch.

67 cents and holding strong, actually.

We pay between 70 and 80 cents a litre, and that's because of your war.

Most of the youth hate America.

The US may well do that, but none of the rest of the world is going to trade with you in the case of a war. If the US wants to punish everyon that won't side with them, the world is going to do the same right back. The US is strong, but it can't stand up against the entire world.

I'm proud of my PM. He made a good point. He is worried about where the US "regime changes" are going to stop. And I don't blame him. Someone needs to knock America off their ass.

Q, NICE reply!

Norad, easy on the name-calling. It seems to detract from even the most intelligent responses.

Again, you show your ignorance. Our economy is booming, I live here, you don't. Therefore, you don't have a clue! Yes, some people are moving to the U.S. Why? Probably because they're pussies and can't take the cold! Yes, we are heavily taxed, but free healthcare costs a lot of money. DUH! Yes the dollar is low. Is it because of our economy? Doubt it very much. It's the boys in the back room doing all of this dirty work, but the thing is because of the low dollar, we are doing better economically! Q, usually Canadians are friendly, but not to ignorant, arrogant people such as yourself. As I stated earlier, the minority of Americans, you, make the majority look bad.

Norad, you seem to contradict yourself with that last response.

Yep, I guess I have, but when people start making comments such as: Canada would be foolish not to side with the US. They are economically tied such that the US would find ways to financially gouge Canada and bring their economies to a grinding halt; the softwood lumber dispute being a perfect example of such economical pressure-that just makes me see red. As stated, our economy is doing a hell of a lot better than south of the border. The softwood lumber dispute just shows America's cry baby ways. Not Americans in general, but the American government. Do you have any idea Immane1 how many pop cans are thrown away in the U.S.? 1 Billion a week-enough to make 34 737's in a year! That shows the arrogance and ignorance of America, and the world sees that too. What, they haven't heard of recycling?

Nightpoet

You got me on the 67 cents. Maybe someday it will reach 70 cents, but I doubt it considering the news items below.

B.C. premier announces 3.5-cent gas tax hike
British Columbia's Liberal government will raise gas taxes next month by 3.5 cents per litre to help pay for $944 million in transportation projects, Premier Gordon Campbell said Wednesday.

Canadian gas prices may spike at $1 per litre
Analysts say gas prices could spike at $1 in some Canadian cities and they predict consumers likely won't get relief until later this year, when global events have taken their course.

Gas prices hitting record highs across Canada
Over the past year, the national cost of gasoline has soared more than 43 per cent. Heating oil jumped nearly seven cents, to 68.3 cents a litre, again on a national average.

Heating oil, gas prices soar
Prices for heating oil and gasoline are soaring and likely to keep rising as energy markets cope with a colder than expected winter, the loss of Venezuela's production and worries about war with Iraq.

http://www.garnetknight.com/gas/

Most of the youth hate America.

Question: What does the United States have that Canada doesn't?

Answer: Thousands of Canada's most talented young minds.
If they hate it so much, why are they all moving there?

I'm proud of my PM.

Is this the same guy who promised to bury the GST in the last election, or was it the election before that. And isn’t he the same guy who just bought a couple of multi-million dollar jets to attend social functions on Saturday nights at a cost of $8000 dollars an hour. Isn’t this the same guy who stuck up for one of the members of parliament who “lost” a billion dollars? And didn’t that MP get re-elected in the last election?

Will you people ever learn?

Someone needs to knock America off their ass.

Hey, thems fightin’ words! ;)

Norad

free healthcare costs a lot of money.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention your failing healthcare system. How long will it be before it bankrupts your country? Those 18 month surgery waiting lists will allow how many people to die?

usually Canadians are friendly, but not to ignorant, arrogant people such as yourself

It’s too bad you have to resort to personal attacks. But since your argument is so weak, I guess you have no choice.

Yep, I guess I have, but when people start making comments such as: Canada would be foolish not to side with the US. They are economically tied such that the US would find ways to financially gouge Canada and bring their economies to a grinding halt; the softwood lumber dispute being a perfect example of such economical pressure-that just makes me see red

You don’t read the papers much, do you? Instead of taking your hostilities out on me, try sending your complaints to your local MP because those words came from your own government representatives. Your own internal agencies (CSIS) are the ones who are trying to get your Prime Minister to see the light, so to speak.

Once again, all of our oil/gas problems are caused by the fact that your president is choosing to go to war with Iraq.

I am proud that my PM actually took a stance on this and is not bowing down to the Americans. Every leader makes mistakes.

And my name is NIGHTPOET

And my name is NIGHTPOET

Oops - my mistake - sorry.

Personal attacks? What the hell is you don't read the papers much do you? You didn't read my whole post, Q. The healthcare system really isn't failing, you should know better than that. It's the mismanagement of the system that needs to be fixed! And Q, seriously, if I put faith into everything I read in a newspaper which is controlled by government in a lot of aspects, I would be a total fool. Einstein didn't think along the realms of mainstream science, and look at what he accomplished. It's my opinions about a country I love, and that gets screwed over by your country because you're cry babys! Poor USA can't get it's way so it has to play the bully on the playground of the planet. Boo hoo.

I am proud that my PM actually took a stance on this and is not bowing down to the Americans.

Actually, he’s being wishy-washy.

Tell you what, I’ll mail him a nice crisp one-dollar bill – then he might be able to afford to buy a spine.

Let's hope that dollar bill doesn't have cocaine crystals in it!

Norad

This statement:

The healthcare system really isn't failing

contradicts this statement:

It's the mismanagement of the system that needs to be fixed

And this statement:

if I put faith into everything I read in a newspaper which is controlled by government in a lot of aspects, I would be a total fool

contradicts this statement:

It's my opinions about a country I love

You’re a plethora of contradiction.

that gets screwed over by your country

Actually, your own politicians on every level of government are screwing you over.

Einstein didn't think along the realms of mainstream science

This is totally wrong.

Yep, whatever, Q. Your post about the healthcare system failing never mentioned mismanagement. To me, that isn't failing. That is stupid beauracracy. There is a difference. It's just like your government spending your tax dollars in the Iran-Contra scandal. Did you ask for that? Probably not, just like I haven't asked my government to waste my tax dollars on foolish fixes in the healthcare system, which is what they are doing-looking for a quick fix instead of looking for the long term goal. You say Quantum mechanics was mainstream science? Don't believe it was! For Einstein's famous quote: God does not play dice! Even Einstein didn't want to believe it, but he helped pave the way for Quantum mechanics, which was not mainstream science at the time.

I just recently read that the Canadians spent about a BILLION dollars on a ridiculous gun registry. This story was from the CBC, not the NRA. I say it is ridiculous, because last I checked, criminals do not register their guns.

I know, and the majority in this country think it's a good thing! Law abiding gun owners don't shoot people, this is a fact. It was supposed to cost 2 million dollars. Like I said about the healthcare-mismanagement of taxpayers money. Just like any other government. And really Immane1 it wasn't Canadians that wasted that money. It was the government-a minority.

Tell you what, I’ll mail him a nice crisp one-dollar bill – then he might be able to afford to buy a spine.

So then he can bow down to King Dubya? What would you be saying if he flat out refused to side with the Americans? You'd still be calling him a coward, and probably pointing out Canada's failings in WWII. I'm not gonna be ashamed of a PM who is trying to find a peaceful solution to the mid-east situation.

immane1-we just found out about the billion dollar thing as well. And, like norad said, its not like we wanted that much spent on the gun registry.

norad,
You seemed to make careful responses to my replies on the Canada thread just earlier. Now this! I give up. I'm going to bed now.

Damn! Made a response on the wrong thread! How embarassing, especially given the subject matter!:o

Embarrass. Me thinks I should have gone to bed an hour ago.

Hey Immane1:

I know the thread you speak of, I think, but I did it just to get a rush from you! That's all. We're all people, just like Q, and I find it amuzing to tick people off-I just do it for fun. Call me an old 'prick' if you wish, but really, water off a duck. I have been called worse, and I have been in worse predicaments i.e. jail. So, all in all no hard feelings towards you or Q or any other 'bastard' as a minister in the Liberal cabinet called Americans. Parrish is her name. Don't know if you knew this or not, but she said, "Damn Americans. I hate the bastards." Stupid bitch said it when the microphone boom was right by her. It's all right for her to voice her opinion, just like everyone else, but with a micrphone on? That's the type of politicians we deal with here, just like in the US of A. George W. the brightest 3 watt light bulb in the western hemisphere!

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Will Canada send people to war? Will Canada has conscription again?? Anyone knows???:confused:

I think despite their stance they already have people in place for the war dont they?

Nightpoet

What would you be saying if he flat out refused to side with the Americans?

Bad idea. As I said previously, the US would simply put up an “economic wall” placing a stranglehold on imports and exports, most likely in the form of tariffs and taxes. As well, they would slow down the progress of truckers bringing goods across the border that would in effect devastate their bottom line.

You'd still be calling him a coward

Canada’s PM is a two-bit thug - he always has been and always will be. He and his cronies have been putting Canada into a tailspin from which it will take years to recover, if at all. Yes, he is a coward – most dictators are.

I'm not gonna be ashamed of a PM who is trying to find a peaceful solution to the mid-east situation.

You actually believe that is his intent? Watch him squirm.

we just found out about the billion dollar thing as well. And, like norad said, its not like we wanted that much spent on the gun registry.

It’s hilarious; those who own guns are not registering anyway, in protest. By the time the dust settles and the registry is buried, 2 billion dollars will have been flushed down the toilet.

No shit! Duh. Jeez, buddy you must think everyone is stupid except for you! You are right though, Chretian is a dictator, but any PM that is voted in acts like this. It's the god damn way the system is set up here, and if you knew better, you would know that. As for the economic wall, yes, that definitely would hurt us, but I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Unlike USA, Canada really doesn't have too many enemies. So, if we had some half decent people in power with half a brain, I'm sure we could weather the storm.

Now, it's pretty funny Q calling the PM a two bit thug. And what would you call Bush? A no wit, two bit thug? Don't forget, Q, that your prez when governor of Texas had the most inmates put to death, if memory serves correctly. Bush is not happy unless he has the pleasure of ordering people to kill others. So, what would you call that Q? A hero? More like the two bit slime ball Bush really is. If the shoe fits, wear it. Oh, I forgot, you cry baby Americans can't take slander, but you can dish it out. ***


Moderator Edit – profanity

Please enlighten because you seem like the typical arrogant, ***
My last post wasn't meant as putting down ALL Americans-just you!

Maybe you should choose your words more carefully next time. If you weren't putting down all Americans, why did you say he was the 'typical' arrogant, ***

So, you have to be American to be an arrogant, ***?

Surely Canadians can be arrogant, *** too. ;)

...what's wrong with the word ignorant?

Darn tooting! Especially me. Damn proud of it too, but you are right VaKemp, I shouldn't bunch everyone into one group.

Dang, boys. Hate to see such animosity between cousins. I've always liked Canadians myself.

What a delicious irony: the Ugly Canadian. :D

Yum.

Norad

And what would you call Bush?

In comparison, Cretin makes Bush look like a professor.

Oh, I forgot, you cry baby Americans can't take slander, but you can dish it out- ***

hehe. The Canadian intellect at its best.

Norad - take a deep breath before your next post. Continue with the profanity
and insults and I will start deleting whole posts rather than editing.

Goofy fish: And what would you call the crap that these guys are dishing out. Candy? I'll leave it at that Goofy!

Norad bleats:

And what would you call the crap that these guys are dishing out.

Facts. Opinions.

It’s not our fault the truth hurts.

Stop trying to blame the US on your own governments incompetence.

Listen here, Q. What do you call Ugly Canadian? Like I said you can dish it out but can't take it. Obviously Mr. G was looking in the mirror when he thought of that one!

Facts and opinions are one thing. Does Bush look better than Chretian? Your opinion and mine is different and you can't stand that, can you?

*yawn*

Originally posted by norad
Goofyfish: And what would you call the crap that these guys are dishing out.... If you have a problem with another's post, please use the button
to report it, or send a PM to me or Pollux and we will deal with it.

LMAO I have never seen a Border before, just men with sticks protecting an imaginary line.

Listen here, Q. What do you call Ugly Canadian? Like I said you can dish it out but can't take it. Obviously Mr. G was looking in the mirror when he thought of that one!
norad:

For ages, Americans have been characterized as Ugly Americans -- you know (your words, this thread): blatant, ignorant, don't have a clue, arrogant, cry babies, bullies, bastards -- by people around the world, or even next door, who see themselves as our betters: superior.

Then they open their mouths and turn out to be little different, even the same.

That's where you'll find the irony of Ugly.

In the mirror.

We think we're superior? Huh, I think you were looking in the mirror again, Mr. G, when you thought of that one!

Back to the topic, or should I lock this one up?

Lock down!

(Q),

Killing people for a monetary gain (or to prevent monetary loss) is good politics?

Die for oil, sucker!

Killing people for a monetary gain (or to prevent monetary loss) is good politics?

Some are right. Some are wrong. In my opinion, you're wrong. That doesn't make me right though. Do you see anything wrong with that?

Who knows what the real motive is (a rhetorical question)? You can speculate, meditate, constipate over the question, but you probably won't get any closer to the answer. It all depends on what you think his intentions are. Maybe it isn't a coincidence that Bush is in the oil business, and he's attacking Iraq. I'm sure you'll find quite a few websites supporting your claim. I can come up with a few that argue that claim. In the end, who's right and who's wrong? We're all puppets being influenced by others. You certainly have your own opinions, and I'm sure you will find a group that will make you feel comfortable by sharing those views.

So good luck in your quest for knowledge! You will either end up unwaivering in your opinions, or confused as hell!

Isn't Paul Martin in the oil business?

Didn't Cretin give him the boot as Finance Minister?

Do you think if Paul Martin were PM, he would side with Bush?

Hmmm....

Nebula

Killing people for a monetary gain (or to prevent monetary loss) is good politics?

Are there any skeletons in your closet?

We may not agree on a lot of things, but this one I have to agree whole heartedly! Bravo! But to correct you, shipping business.

Norad

Yes, shipping business - and some oil and coal holdings. Apparently though, most of his vessels carry… oil.

http://www.saltspring.com/bobmcginn/paul_martin_disclosure.htm

See, we were both amicable. I didn't die, you didn't die, so I guess we can be amicable towards each other. Too be honest, not sure what his ships carry, but some probably do carry oil.

Perhaps I should have been more specific in my post. I’m not saying that Bush has a hidden economic reason for war, although it is plausible. That’s a different issue.

What I meant to imply was this: is it “right” for Canada to declare war purely out of fear of possible economic sanctions?

I don’t deny for a second that back-scratching takes place in Canada. I’m just asking whether it’s really “foolish” for a country to remain neutral despite looming economic threats.

Besides, what’s a more distressing thought: that Canada is willing to imperil its economy in the name of peace, or that the US is willing to economically harm a country that wishes to remain neutral?

There’s a leader to be proud of...

Man, alot of Canada bashing going on here. Don't forget that we are the only ones who ever beat america in a war. ;)

What's even greater is HOW! :D

There may be many different motivation in the governements themselfs. And that is the problem, they are diveded even in them selves. United we stand divided we fall. The UN is falling apart. It is the uncertainty of the evidence that the U.S. is presenting. The worst part is that I understand why they cannot show the world all of there intteligence reports. That would ferret out all of there intelligence officers. That would be tactical stupid. The problem is how can the world act on faith. So the question is: Is the a war for oil or a war to protect the world.

Personally I think that Saddam should be ousted, he has caused much suffering and will continue to do so. The problem is the reprecutions for the region. How can you make ammends to a country who's family was killed in the name of protecting there people? It is a trick stituation. Deciding what is the best decision with the best possible out come is a hard thing to do.

The U.S. will lose face and appear to be war moggers if they just go with out global support, they will be diminshed in the eyes of the world if they fail. The best possible out come I could see is Saddam steping down, though I doubt that will happen. What is left?

But in the end I lean allot more ot the U.S. possition. It is hardly a question of would Saddam support terrorisme it is do we know with out a doubt. It seems to me that he would very likely support terrorist groups. So I tend to lean towards the U.S. on this one. In my eyes they may not be the most jsut country in the world, and I am not a big fan of the republican party but my opinions a side I tend to right now side with the U.S. Thought I do not like how this has come to be, and I do not trust the republicans to handle this situation. If anything it should be int he hands of the U.N., the united states should act and support there reasons for conflict but leave the power of the opperation in the hands of the united nations.

Thats all I got to say about that....and by the way I am a canadian.

Though I would never turn my back on a Republican.

Dragon, it will all be moot soon, but it is impossible to put Saddam's terrorism-threat level in perspective without understanding the ideological differences between Saddam and Arab/Islamic terrorists. Saddam wants glory credit for anything he does. Saddam is selfish. Saddam is self-absorbed. Saddam is a secularist. Saddam is Satanic to any Islamic fundamentalist. Why do you think the US propped him up, and provided billions in weapons to him? And why did it come to an end? Saddam is a famous double-crosser, not a little reckless, and nobody wants to get near him. Kinda like the growing international perception of the US.

Now, compare Saddam's dingy, declining police state with Saudi Arabia's gleaming, politically teetering, rich, seething incubator for terrorism.

You might say "well, then we'll just go in there, too!"

We already are there:eek: And that's the problem: This ill-advised, ignorant W. Bush rampage is going to give Middle Eastern Terrorism its biggest bonanza in history. Iraq has no perceivable terrorist activity now. Soon, it will have a great deal of it.

Hmmm..interesting. The big concern that I have is the freedom and wellbeing of the Iraqis people. The question that beggs is how can we improve this situation. Help to unite the world and not to divide it. There is much to be done and unless the world is united, we will fail. The enviroment issues, the humanitarian issues... There is much work to be done, but it can only be accomplished if we unite as one people. We are not longer seperated by great spaces and seas, we are now truley a global village. Now it is time unite with single minded intent of changing the heart of the world. How can we come to this? It is only through our United Nations can this be accomplished, all this war on terrorism is doing is dividing us. We need to unite as people of this earth for the betterment of all mankind.

Like I said even if the U.S. is powerfull it must know its place. It has a place as one of the greatest nations of humanity, but not the best or the greatest. We must all act as equals if we are to accomplish anything productive. Humilty is a lesson that needs to be learned by all nations. It is only through humilty, perseverance, tolerence, empathy and acceptance that anything will thing ever change.

The human race has been fighting among ourselves for over 5000 years (Give our take). We have everything we need to start a new begining for our people. So why waste that chance? If we are divided we will all perish, but if we stand united we will all be victorious and one day these dark ages will finaly be lifted. The future can be so bright, and it is within our very grasp. So how can we let it slip through our grasp?

...whenever we pick up weapons to "make peace": That's how.

Two more Canadian vessels depart for the Persian Gulf. Is Canada waffling or what?

HMCS Iroquois left port on Wednesday morning, resuming a journey to the Persian Gulf that was aborted last week when a Sea King helicopter crashed onto its flight deck.
Steaming out of port at the same time was HMCS Fredericton, a frigate also slated for duty with Operation Apollo.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/05/ships_sail030305

I don't know what it is. Is it that the government of Canada is almost certain the UN will say to the U.S. take the sucka out? Not sure. And the SeaKing thing. That was funny, but thankfully no one was hurt. I do believe Q that it is time for a civil war in my country-this I'm not joking about. My great grandfather always said that this will happen, but it would be over taxes. This, I can definitely see, but with this gun registry crap, I'm sure the powers that be have some dirty shit up their sleeves! Like law enforcement coming into homes a year or two later to confiscate the weapons. My brother didn't register all of his because he thinks along the lines that I do. I'm sure the militiamen in Ontario didn't register theirs either.

Now we are sharing an antique aircraft between two ships! That is really pathetic on my governments part especially since they purchase 2 jets for the PM and his cronies in Ottawa. Something to the effect that the other ones were not safe, but the dickhead expects our military to fly obselete aircraft.

Not sure how many know this, I certainly didn't until I watched it on the Discovery Channel. Those frigates that we have are pretty mean fighting machines. 4 harpoon missles-surface to surface range 120-130 mile range, torpedos for submarines-range 7 km-a little over 4 miles, 16 sidewinders, the gun on the deck, which by the way the turret is plastic-it's controlled by the control centre just below the numbers of the ship and this gives it great speed to swivel from left to right or vice versa-and the R2D2. If a missle threat is coming in, the ship has 4 defense mechanisms. First, it fires off these missles that deploy tin foil pieces. So, if the missle is a radar guided one, this may fool it. If this doesn't work, they fire the sidewinders, 15 mile range. If this doesn't work the gun on the front is used. If this doesn't work they use the R2D2 which in most, if not all, cases will take it out.

The armor on the hull is strong enough to take a direct hit from a missle without even phasing it, that's if it's not an armor piercing one. The propellers are designed in such a way, which is classified information, that those frigates can be going top speed 40-45 kts and come to a complete stop in under a minute.

Norad,
You almost seem proud of their destructive power. Hmmmm.

Well, not really, more proud of the fact that we actually have half decent ships that can defend themselves, and deal a blow if necessary.

They will readily burn and sink in Norfolk, San Diego, or the Straits of Hormuz. $10k in explosives can take out $billions in shock-and-awe-inspiring floating monuments to hubris- most vulnerable, whenever they are confined in waters too small for defensive formation (ports, straits, canals). Naval battles are history now, and these vessels are only useful for escalating resentment and global assymetrical conflict. Aden was fair warning.

Sure they could, if confined in a small area.

Can't stay in blue water forever.

Norad

Now we are sharing an antique aircraft between two ships! That is really pathetic on my governments part especially since they purchase 2 jets for the PM and his cronies in Ottawa. Something to the effect that the other ones were not safe, but the dickhead expects our military to fly obselete aircraft.

I remember reading that when Cretin first came to power as PM, one of his agendas was to kill a proposal to buy new helicopters to replace the ailing Sea Kings because he wanted to save the government money. Killing the deal cost taxpayers a half billion dollars and 80 million dollars a year since then to keep the Sea Kings in reasonable shape. Now that’s saving money!

Q, I know, don't remind me. What's even funnier is that the new frigates doors were not built big enough to take the EH 101's that were in that contract that Jean Putin killed. I say Putin because there was a skit done by Rick Mercer asking U.S. politicians what they thought of Jean Putin. It was too funny!

For a minute there I thought you were saying they were going to run a ground like the Exxon Mobile Captain, but then I saw what you meant by 'blue water.'

norad-So, what you're saying is that we actually do have some non-defective military equipment?? Dude!
I'd still prefer we stay neutral, though. And I though the ships were deployed for the "war on terrorsim?"

Yep, believe it or not we do! It really shocked the hell out of me when I watched this program. It was done on board the HMCS Winnipeg. They did an exercise where they needed to hit five incoming targets. 5 sidewinders were fired off simultaneously, and according to the exercise, all targets were hit! It was amazing to see these babies launch from one of our ships! I still don't believe it. And I live in Halifax, right by the base. I can see these ships from my balcony! You're right though, it would be nice to be neutral in this. And they say terrorism, but they are going to the Persian Gulf. And that scenerio I put in my post about the ship's defense mechanisms? All of that occurs in a matter of 30 seconds or less. Not much time when you have a missle coming in at you!I actually knew they were preparing the ships for the gulf because I watched them loading them with supplies. I knew this about 2-3 weeks ago.

Ya, I have actually heard from someone (I can't remeber who) that our military is not as in bad shape as the media claims it is (sorry for hte akward wording). Dunno if there's truth to that, but I do have some hope!!

Hope can get us in a lot of trouble. A fabulously-equipped and valiant military alone does not win in these conquests- these require more than one generation of viciousness. That is not all that the West cannot afford, because we have so much farther to fall than they. The Prize under the sand can buy new friends when the Americans, Brits and Canadians become adversaries. We may succeed in bombing much of the region back into the early Industrial Revolution, and galvanizing their hate, but they can steadily shatter our illusion of being more civilized, slowly break our taken-for-granted alliances (what is Canada really in this for, anyway?) bring down our interdependant economies, and leave us reeling. No outsider fights for mere fuel like a man fights for his home and his pride.

We have the coyotes! They were essential in Afghanastan. Heck, even the American soldiers were impressed with them; they were at the Canadian camp checking them out. I find that amazing, since the Americans have all the hardware, but yes Nightpoet, we actually do have a few things in the military that are of use and very capable-minus the Sea Kings, and jeez, even the CF-18's are not as capable as they were. They need outfitting badly! It's too bad, because I really do like the Hornet. It's an amazing aircraft-the only one in the world that can keep it's nose up at a 45 degree angle and cruise along at 100km an hour-it might be a little less (90kmh), but still pretty agile. This is while still remaining at the same altitude.

I was at the Nova Scotia International airshow a couple of years ago, and watched an Auroa, which is a turbo-prop aircraft, go backwards! I think the Hercules can do the same.

We could have a half decent military if the government of Canada had some vision and balls to change the infrastructure. I do have some ideas, but not sure how they would fly. What about some of you Americans out there? What does health insurance cost, and is it working? I've heard so many stories from spin doctors-Romano report etc.-I really think I need to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak. Is your health insurance system in shambles? Are there some insurance companies going belly up? It's a tricky situation from what I understand since these companies rely on investments to make money-at least that's my understanding of it.

The problem with health insurance is that insurance companies hardly ever pay up, and when they do they are as cheap as possible. They would argue policy while you die.

Insurance as a whole is becoming a joke and more of an idiot tax than it even was before.
They take your money but put in as many clauses and arguments to try to shaft you out of them paying you back as possable and drag their feet that even when they do pay it can be years later.
Having this on Cars etc is alone bad enough.
To force and entire nation to rely on this system for their health care is a sick joke.

Norad, as soon as the Iraqis will see coyotes going backwards in turboprops they will certainly all drop their weapons and have a unanimous referendum asking to become the 54th State in the Union (right after the conquest of Canada).

Norad, as soon as the Iraqis will see coyotes going backwards in turboprops

Huh? Read my post again Hypewaders. You have a combination of things in there. Coyotes don't use turbo-props:) They are more of a reconnassaince/armored personal vehicle with great capabilities to cover terrain-like in Afghanastan. That's why the American soldiers were impressed. I believe it was a colonel or general that said, and I quote: They have the Coyotes!

The Auroa does go backwards-as stated in my post I watched it with my own eyes, so does the Hercules aircraft. If you haven't been to an airshow, I suggest you check it out. You may actually get the privilage of seeing one of these turbo-props backing up!

By the way, guys, thanks for letting me know about the health insurance situation. I'm sure that's what the government of Canada is heading for, but by the sounds of things, it may be a mistake.

I had a quick panic when you said (Letting me know) i would of thought being that close to America you would of known it and even more i'm worried the people in America themselves don't seem to realise whats being done to their health system, their pensions, their future...The fog of war seems thickest at home.

Love the name!

I've heard so many stories from spin doctors-Romano report etc

This is way I really asked. The Romano report I believe was the one that mentioned the state of insurance to the south of us. That's why I really wanted to know if it was just a 'spin'-Romano is ex-premier, Saskatchewan I think. So, obviously, I'm very cautious when any polichicken opens his/her mouth or makes any suggestions.

Who killed thousands of his citizens with chemical warfare; who shot his own relatives in cold blood; who invaded his neighbors and shot scud missiles at Israel?

Who has played a cat-and-mouse game with the UN for the last 12 years?

Who would come to Canada’s aid should they be attacked? Saddam?

If it were not for the US and strength of leaders like George Bush and Tony Blair, Canada would be walked over and taken over long since by the bullies and terrorists of this world.

To take protection and bite the protector is a special kind of ungratefulness and mean spiritedness that belies a jealousy and envy that is neither admirable nor necessary.

The world will be much better off without the Saddams and Osamas and Kim Jongs of this world, but we would sorely miss a Bush or Blair. They should have the respect due their difficult task.

It takes a special kind of fortitude to withstand the UN blathering and self-serving rhetoric now going on. The uninformed, ignorant of this world may never know what is being done on their behalf (especially political leaders in Canada) but it does not make that effort any less outstanding and wonderful.

Place the blame where it belongs: At the feet of the butchers of this world and more specifically, Saddam Hussein!

The US, no matter how ill-behaved their neighbors of the north to be, will come to Canadas aid willingly and happily. They could ask for no better neighbor and friend.

It is about time they acted like they knew that and appreciated that!

Huh? What brought that on?

norad

Label it a "wake up call" if you will - Canadians should lift their heads up from their beer glasses for a moment and have a look round. That is of course if their able to see through the glaze.

;)

Too funny. I'm guilty of that at times. I definitely like my beer!

http://americanpeace.eccmei.net/
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.htm

p.s.
...always trying to find the positive, first link -> 2002-> search for sheep

The last people I remember trying to invade Canada was the US.

Of course the US is going to protect Canada, and Canada would protect the US. But hte war on Iraq is not an atack on the US. It is an attack by the US on Iraq.

The world has survived thusfar without Bush or Blair, and I think it will do just fine once they are voted out.

Nightpoet

The last people I remember trying to invade Canada was the US.

Please remember that when a major terrorist attack happens in Canada and you and your political leaders are scurrying for cover.

But hte war on Iraq is not an atack on the US. It is an attack by the US on Iraq.

Ah, you are of the “wait-and-see-what-happens-first” pact. America already made that mistake once. You know – once bitten, twice shy.

The world has survived thusfar without Bush or Blair, and I think it will do just fine once they are voted out.

Will you remain so passive when Saddam knocks over YOUR glass of beer?

Look you two-and I know Q is going to get a chuckle out of this re: earlier posts.

You know both countries, Canada and the USA both have positive and negative, but we shouldn't look at it like that. The Halifax explosion, which occured in 1917, is an example of how the U.S. helped us. Follow here: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/halifax_explosion021225.html

sorry, don't know how exactly that is done with the links

After 9/11, Canada showed the USA it's gratitude. Follow here:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWSSept11/sep11_speeches-cp.html

Q, this is why I settled down. Should we all not just take a deep breath and reflect the links I just put here?


RE
sorry, don't know how exactly that is done with the links
Never mind, they work! :)

'The US must bear some of the responsibility for the attack on the World Trade Center.”

"When you are powerful [like America], it is time to be nice."

Jean Chretien September 11, 2002

Cretin insisted that global poverty and high-handed American foreign policy were among the fundamental causes of the murder of more than 3,000 people on September 11.

As far as that is concerned, a "nicer" America - one which donated billions extra in Third World aid and helped poor countries get richer - would not have made any difference at all. Poverty has nothing to do with it: Osama bin Laden isn't poor, the hijackers weren't poor, and none of them evinced any desire to improve the lot of the world's starving.

The view that there is a foreign policy, which if America followed it, would have forestalled the attacks on September 11, is surprisingly widespread. Still, it is surprising to hear it from the supposedly grown-up prime minister of the country that shares its borders with the United States.

How can Canadians take this moron seriously?

Well, I for one certainly don't take him seriously. I never voted for him. ;)

Q: Comparing all of Canada to Chretien is like comparing america to nixon or clinton. Please don't assume that we blindly follow him, although that may be hard for you to understand seeing how you blindly follow bush. Canada has many political parties, the liberals are just voted for by people who don't care nowadays (as oppsed to in america where they would just not bother voting).

while morally commendable to bring freedom to iraq it is political suicide for bush. Canada is bright to sit this out. It shows not only their commitment to the war on terror but also to freedom, peace, prospierity of the world.

The US support for Israel is causing a lot of problems in the middle east.
Q-why did the 9/11 attacks happen? Since you seem to know everything (including me, very accurate assumptions!) I would love to know.

because we are seen as the super power. As such we have a responsibility to use our power to uplift the people of earth to a new age of materialism. This is seen as evil by the fundamentalists and our actions with saudi arabia and isreal was used to bang the war drums. That is what caused 9-11. I blame both extremism and american foriegn policy.