hey guys i'm new to politics and this forum... i was wondering if any one could shed some light for me on this matter.. my co worker here says that for a while now the u.s. has been "protecting" israel and for no apparent reason.. he is trying to tie this in with the bible and all but i was wondering if any one could explain or post up some links that would explain what is going on in israel... thank you very much for your time reading this!

Oh wow .................

A picture is worth a thousand words right ?

http://abbc.com/cartoons/bush-please.jpg

http://abbc.com/cartoons/us-aid.jpg

http://abbc.com/cartoons/usa-aid.jpg

The USA protects Israel military and politically because that is the system that USA has found itself in because of the Zionist influence within the USA on the right positions . These positions deal with governments , economics , media , movieindustry etc .

I dont think those biblical-baptist reasons are that relevant , I think $ runs USA not any God .

But you are asking bookloads of information here , is there a specific detailed relation you are looking for one some level ?

Here's one on the political side of things :

Paul Dundes Wolfowitz - Deputy Secretary, Department of Defense

Richard Perle - Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy.

Ari Fleischer - White House Press Secretary
Josh Bolten - Deputy Chief of Staff
Ken Melman - White House Political Director
Jay Lefkowitz - Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of
the Domestic Policy Council

David Frum - Speechwriter
Brad Blakeman - White House Director of Scheduling
Dov Zakheim - Undersecretary of Defense (Controller)
I. Lewis Libby - Chief of Staff to the Vice President

Adam Goldman - White House Liaison to the Jewish Community
Chris Gersten - Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families at HHS

Elliott Abrams - Director of the National Security Council's Office for Democracy, Human Rights and International Operations

Mark D. Weinberg - Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs

Douglas Feith - Under Secretary of Defense for Policy
Michael Chertoff - Head of the Justice Department's criminal division

Daniel Kurtzer - Ambassador to Israel
Cliff Sobel - Ambassador to the Netherlands
Stuart Bernstein - Ambassador to Denmark
Nancy Brinker - Ambassador to Hungary
Frank Lavin - Ambassador to Singapore
Ron Weiser - Ambassador to Slovakia
Mel Sembler - Ambassador to Italy
Martin Silverstein - Ambassador to Uruguay


Its not that all the others (Rummie Cheney Bushy etc) would feel any differently , their interests are exactly the same ......

Thats the most direct reason why USA is protecting Israel within this current USA government ........ but dont think its any better with the democrats however . Its more like , right-USA with right-Israel , left-USA with left-Israel .

thank you for the reply jihadalif, i guess more specifically, what does the u.s. have to gain from their "protection" of israel? i see you mention money and politics and the zionist influence.. could you elaborate or guide me to some reading? what money, for what politics and what exactly is the zionist influence? thank you again!

The US protects isreal in the sense that it supplies them with weapons etc, infact theres a saying: isreal never runs out of bullets. America would not go to war on isreals behalf but will for example get more planes there if they are needed.

1) The Jewish are politicaly important in america, they can swing votes in certain areas they also hold a quite wealthy portion of the vote, So there support is always tried to gain by US parties.

2) Isreal's a traditional ally of America, e.g. most middle eastern countries chose to support the soviet union e.g. iraq, siria etc but isreal was certainly on the west's side during thre cold war, so it is in affect a US agent in that part of the world.

3) Historicaly they are similar people, isrealis are like Americans and Europeans, after all they did spend a lot of time in europe and have a lot of connections to america and western countries etc.

Its not really about gain and loss , because its not a traditional 2 states who can profit from oneanother situation . Its a system the USA is in , and that system is totally infiltrated with as well jewish as Non-Jewish peoples who have interests in Zionism , and in the existance of Israel . In the end it is simply $ they care about , and when the system becomes in the way that the path of the $ is the path of Israel , then it simply works itself .

Todays democracy's arent run by a few individuals , but by many individuals who are indirectly related in the field of interest with the political perspective , and USA and Israel have developed to be in such a situation . Ofcourse the first Zionists who come into relevance are the Jewish ones , and it is quite obvious that Zionist Jewry is not like religious Jewry but oftenly very active in the fields that matter , within the USA .

The link is simply the Jews who hold positions and combine their benefits with their Ideal of Zionism (the State of Israel) , followed by others who are dependent of these peoples who cannot do but follow in the interest of the $ .

You shouldnt think of some sort of conspiracy , its just how things work , the peoples themselves are hardly even aware of it . If you would research the position of USA-Jewry within these properous and decisive positions , you would gain an insight on how it is possible for a state as the USA to absolutely always have a political policy that is in accordance to the wishes of those peoples , which is Zionist Israel .

Israeli PM Ariel Sharon has been caught admitting that the Jewish peoples are the ones who are relevant in USA .

god-of-course :

I wouldnt deny your points , they are very true . Ofcourse there is cultural and historical and strategical relevance , but without all of this Israel would still be USA's priority #1 . Its all about NYC baby ...

BTW , its not that the Ashkenazim Jews of Europe have spent much time there , they originate there racially .....but thats a different subject .

Some interesting points about USA-Jewry , continuing on a political base (and I dont think this one is the most relevant , but it the most direct) :

The Bush State Department site provides a list of principle officers, the policy planning staff and a list of Assistant Secretaries and those of equivalent rank , to give a total of 59 names . 17 (29%) are Jewish

The Council on Foreign Relations is a little publicized, extremely powerful group--almost a shadow government, according to some."The CFR is the establishment. Not only does it have influence and power in key decision-making positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also finances and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitution Republic into a servile member of a one-world dictatorship." In the list of 39 officers and directors, 33% of them are Jewish.

The Defense Policy Board is charged with "providing the Secretary of Defense, Deputy Secretary and Under Secretary for Policy with independent, informed advice and opinion concerning major matters of defense policy. It will focus upon long-term, enduring issues central to strategic planning for the Department of Defense... " This is the powerful advisory panel that Daniel Perle chaired, which post he was forced to resign because of a conflict with his business interests. Not forced off the board, though. In the list of 30 members, 27% of them are Jewish.

The Jewish Institute for National Security affairs is a sort of Fifth Column for Israel, made up of High Ranking American military men and Jews. "Only one think tank puts the U.S.-Israel strategic relationship first - JINSA! " Of the 48 officers and directors, 39% are Jewish.

Be aware that only 2% of USA's population is Jewish . I am sure that there is hardly any denial in the relation between secular and succesfull Amerikan Jewry and Zionism , be it leftist or rightist zionism .

IMO the US at this point cannot give up on Israel. The US has entrenched herself so much with Israel that her co-operation is far more intergrated that than with NATO. The US military-industrial complex is grateful to the Israeli's they buy billions of dollars worth of arms (well Americans buy it for Israel) but never the less the corporations get lots of $$$. Israel for the military industrialists is a cash cow, look at Iraq. One big reason for that war is to protect Israel, the new pusch towards war in Iran and Syria, which are the stanchest anti-Israeli states. The US is becoming increasing militaristic, for Israel not for America. It's $$$.

Does that list of "Jewish" named people in the US government mean that they are all Zionists? Are their political decision made for protecting Isreal before serving their own country? Sounds like a conspiracy theory simliar to "the Jews are taking over the world, they're evil"

The reason the US has been backing and protectin Israel for so long all started with the Cold War. The USSR was planting strong ties with Arab nations in the middle-east, so the US had to get a foothold before the middle-east and oil was influenced by their archenemy, the USSR. By giving lots of weapons and political backing to Israe the US would stake it's claim in the middle east; expanding it's influence while trying to stop the influence of Communism from expanding further into the middle-east.

Israel was happy to get all the attention and weapons from the US because Arab countries have hated the idea of a Jewish state, and have attemtped, numerous times, to overrun Israel. So the US benefits by looking strong on it's stance with Communism as well as having an ally in such a vital area, where the oil comes from. And Israel gets money, weapons, and political backing (i.e nuclear bombs) to do what it pleases.

The Cold War against communism has supposedly ended only 10 years ago. 10 years isn't enough for the US to get out of it's huge investment they've put into Israel...that's only if the US government wants to get out. There is something called tied-aid. It's when the US gives money (taken from the "forgien-aid" budget) in return for US corporations to make much money by selling things to the same country and creating strong ties inside it.

Israel cotinues to be the biggest reciever of tied-aid from the US. Who knows if Cheney, Bush, past presidents, past Heads of State, and other government officials are invloved in the corporations that are entwined into these tied-aid programs. The oil connection to Cheney has been remotely publicized.

If you like to lean towards the "Jews are evil" reason or this "Corporate" reason for the US protecting Israel it'll all lead to the same conclusion. The US government is self-serving for its employees. As long as the government's image to it's people is peachy, the government may do what it pleases, including giving "aid" to the troubled (and morally suspicious) nation of Israel. Also each reason for the US protecting Israel lays largely on speculation and conspiriousy theory.

Grazz :
Does that list of "Jewish" named people in the US government mean that they are all Zionists? Are their political decision made for protecting Isreal before serving their own country? Sounds like a conspiracy theory simliar to "the Jews are taking over the world, they're evil"

Not really , and its seriously laughable that you even after what i posted would bring in "evil Jew", please .......

Yes they all are zionists , and guess what , all those who are NON-Jewish involved are zionists as well , thats just how the system works . But hey ......when even proved Jewish influence is being dealt with as "evil jews-conspiracy" , then what the hell ......

Then I could provide you tons of lists of companies and influential positions filled with obvious secular Jews who OBVIOUS have interests in the same line as Israel , who promote investments in israel , who bring forth positivity about Israel and who lead politically assistance to Israel .

Zionism isnt some scary thing like nazism , its been natural/normal/acceptable policy in the West for the last 55 years . Serving their own country ? What fairytales you believe in , nobody is serving anything than his own pockets , and the deal is that within this system of capitalism as it is today , $ is being made when your ass is helping Israel in one way or the other . Its almost inevitable , that doesnt mean they are all hardcore-ideological zionists , it means they're interests can nothing but collide with hardcore ideological zionists .

The reason the US has been backing and protectin Israel for so long all started with the Cold War. The USSR was planting strong ties with Arab nations in the middle-east, so the US had to get a foothold before the middle-east and oil was influenced by their archenemy, the USSR. By giving lots of weapons and political backing to Israe the US would stake it's claim in the middle east; expanding it's influence while trying to stop the influence of Communism from expanding further into the middle-east.

Surely the cold war is indeed a valid and very big reason for Israeli support , but there is no cold war today is there ? In the meantime within this system of cold war , obviously it is more profitable for a person to grow within his system when he actually supports it somehow , perhaps there is even truth in the cold war for the reason there is so incredibly incredibly incredibly lots of Jewish power in USA . I mean seriously , thats an undeniable fact ..... and perhaps it has its roots in the cold war as this allowed such a development to take place , but other factors are very necesarry as well . Cultural identity , simple sociological reasons and the average image one had of Israel ..... its nice for holiday .

Israel was happy to get all the attention and weapons from the US because Arab countries have hated the idea of a Jewish state, and have attemtped, numerous times, to overrun Israel. So the US benefits by looking strong on it's stance with Communism as well as having an ally in such a vital area, where the oil comes from. And Israel gets money, weapons, and political backing (i.e nuclear bombs) to do what it pleases.

Surely , but please dont deny that funding for Israel exceeds the "budget" as implemenmted by USA (aid) a thousand times , this isnt totalitarianism where the governments hold everything , they hold absolutely nothing compared to the companies .

10 years isn't enough for the US to get out of it's huge investment they've put into Israel...that's only if the US government wants to get out. There is something called tied-aid.

Ok come on now , so they're stilll asside with Israel because of some investments ? Get real , if they pull out their zionists rebell and the land seriously goes to shit . But to understand this you need a clear picture of how exactly the zionists function in USA ...... and it doenst seem that you have such a good picture .
Hell , you're even denying relevance with Jews holding thgese essential positions ........ I mean whats left after that ? Coincidence ? lol

Who knows if Cheney, Bush, past presidents, past Heads of State, and other government officials are invloved in the corporations that are entwined into these tied-aid programs. The oil connection to Cheney has been remotely publicized.

A strong connection between the government and the companies only prooves my point better .

If you like to lean towards the "Jews are evil" reason or this "Corporate" reason for the US protecting Israel it'll all lead to the same conclusion. The US government is self-serving for its employees. As long as the government's image to it's people is peachy, the government may do what it pleases, including giving "aid" to the troubled (and morally suspicious) nation of Israel. Also each reason for the US protecting Israel lays largely on speculation and conspiriousy theory.


Im sure you've read one or 2 things Ive posted here before and Im sure that if you're honest You'd know Im not the "Jews-are-evil" kinda guy . Quite the opposite really :rolleyes:

I do however hold what you call *corporate* reason , it is fact that they have immense influence , and it is fact that this influence is used for positiveness toward Israel in any way (investments etc) . If you are denying the power coorporations have nowadays ...... then I dunno where you've been living , mars maybe ?

If you're telling me that peoples like Stevo Ballmer who run co'ops like Microsoft

http://bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2000/5/ballmer.jpg

doesnt spent one of his 25 B $ in some Shekels , then you're just lying to yourself man .......

Im in the need for some actual demography on who exactly has how many $ , that way we can draw the map . Im sorry but its really a joke to deny that USA works on interests and peoples in right positions , and Im sorry but its a fact that those peoples who support Israel (in any way , consicously or not) are peoples in the right positions .

Nothing conspired about that ........

The USA and Israel have been allies for a long time, it is not very much about money but we played a big part in creating israel after World War 2. Does anyone think that the good reason is the real reason? Do you have to be negative?

US will always follow the route that leads to it's best interest. It is not evil to follow your best interest, it's evil to do otherwise. US doesn't care about the religion crap or the fact that they helped Israel form a country, or whatever. US is simply supporting and protecting Israel because it's in it's best interest politically, economically, and in conducting overseas policy.

Believe it or not, Israel is currently acting as a strong stabilizing force in the middleeast. Without Israel, the arabic countries would be in chaos and extremly hard to deal with. Israel is doing the US a political favor by defocusing the arabs off their internal chaos to a unified problem of Palestine occupation. All other issues always dimish when compared with the 50 year occupation. It's much easier for US and Israel to deal and control one wound in the middle east over many uncontrolled wounds.

If US sees it that the zionist movement is not as effective any more, they'll change directions in a heart beat.

How interesting :

US will always follow the route that leads to it's best interest.

We know this , its un-avoidable in a capitalistic system . The question however is who are the peoples who are considered countabale as representatives of USA's interest ?

It is not evil to follow your best interest, it's evil to do otherwise.

Yes very interesing , Ethical Egoism correct ? I agree with much of it when it comes down to an individual way of things , but when we're talking societies and world-economies ...... its just , selfish ... Ethical Egoism is about the only theory that considers this *good* , let me ask you Flores , maybe you can fill me in ......
what does the Qu'ran and Hadith say about Ethical Egoism ?

US is simply supporting and protecting Israel because it's in it's best interest politically, economically, and in conducting overseas policy.

Couldnt have said it better myself , again the question remains why is it Israel that is in USA's best interests , and who represent those interests ?

Without Israel, the arabic countries would be in chaos and extremly hard to deal with. Israel is doing the US a political favor by defocusing the arabs off their internal chaos to a unified problem of Palestine occupation. All other issues always dimish when compared with the 50 year occupation. It's much easier for US and Israel to deal and control one wound in the middle east over many uncontrolled wounds.


But the USA already has shown that it has capability in controlling Arabia without Israel . Do we need to mention Ba'ath ? The oil states ? Saudi ? Jordan ? Mubarak ?

Israel as a foreign state brought them 9-11 , and I doubt that any purely *political* relation would hold 2 more of those .

If US sees it that the zionist movement is not as effective any more, they'll change directions in a heart beat.

And how are they gonna do that ? Letting go of Israel means a very very high risk for Israels existance , it would give the militas hope and they would change their policy from retalliation to conquer and subdue , the Arabs as peoples would lean toward this and you might have a state or 2 that would get involved as well .

Now how exactly would all those peoples who are in essential positions daling with diplomacy , economics and media etc take this ? Many might have family there , at least an emotional tie , and much is invested there , if everybody lets go the USA collapses .

Not that this will stop them eventually , they'll just do the German-dance , there are ghetto's already in NYC so its not that hard even . :bugeye:

I really feel kinda sorry for the arabs. Nearly all of thier countries are essentially under occupation by US(propped up puppet regimes and millitary aid to keep em safe) and Israeli forces, and the ones that aren't are under constant threats of occupation.

Why do I believe that US protects Israel? Well it is a combination of several seperate layers and dynamics of tribalism. You have the jews who do anything to benefit thier own group ahead of others, and who have firmly entrenched themselves into some nice positions in american politics and power. Then you have all the old wealth british families who are really a similar beast. And then you have joe whitey in his trailer with an automatic bias towards favoring Israeli because they look and sound slightly more similar. Now this is a pretty simplistic analysis, and their are some further dimensions, but I think this would be the root of the plant.

1. The U.S supports israel as it as the sole democracy of that region. Since The U.S policy isn't "sitting on the island and waiting" but getting and influencing other places to its own interests (and the lesson of pearl harbor, WTC and the like can show why), such a democracy is a natural ally.

2. Israel has an economic system that suits U.S. While the U.S has too much supplies (at least concerning food, weapons and entertaining products), Israel doesn't have enough (and Israel's growing inflation over it 50 years might show it). Those who will check how the aid is going will see that Israel has to spent about half of it in american products.

3. The jewish lobby is quite big (about as israel itself) in population, and most of them see donating to Israel the only way to contribute without getting there. An halt to the israeli-U.S relations may cause a great jewish immigration, making the U.S lose both capital and power.

4. The U.S aid made israel depend on U.S a lot. This helps the U.S, enabling them to pressure Israel. For example, one can see how threats of stopping the aid made Israel help Clinton's plans in the middle east. The peace beetwen Israel and Jordan is a part of such a plan that worked.

Btw, the U.S aid is not to Israel only. Turkey and Egypt are great examples for countrys that are leaning towards democracy and recieve aid as well.

Originally posted by Alagar
Btw, the U.S aid is not to Israel only. Turkey and Egypt are great examples for countrys that are leaning towards democracy and recieve aid as well.

Sure if you call Egypt with a president who has been sitting for over 20 years and preparing his son to take over a democracy....Egyptians majically vote for him with 99.999% approval every 4 years.

Alagar

as it as the sole democracy of that region

1)Lebanon
2)Flores's coment + other NON-democratic nations are USA supported (Jordan , Saud , Kuweit etc)

WTC

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
:(

Those who will check how the aid is going will see that Israel has to spent about half of it in american products.

If you check a bit better you would probably find out as well that the deals made with those companies Israel spents on are Jewish-tied .

3. The jewish lobby is quite big (about as israel itself) in population, and most of them see donating to Israel the only way to contribute without getting there.

What do you consider the lobby ? The entire community ? The 5 M ? Then your dead wrong , because half of Boroughpark for instance doenst even own a dime to support Israel with . No no , its just a few . Happens to be they are RICH and essential , and there's alot of'em .

The U.S aid made israel depend on U.S a lot

Haha , before 48 Israel didnt even exist to depend on somebody . I say its the other way around , not on Israel , but on its influential Zionists who hold the strings and who are bound to make shit collapse if they let go .

Let them make NYC official .....oh I hope they would do so , the entire US economy would just collapse into chaos .

example, one can see how threats of stopping the aid made Israel help Clinton's plans in the middle east.

Clinton's cabinet was 1/3 Jewish

leaning towards democracy

LMAO

Go take a cold shower Alagar you need to wake up , what have they been telling you there in Yeretz Isroel ?