http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/061010/061010_fence_hmed_330a.hmedium.jpghttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15201000/

What's the purpose? $10 for a set of bolt-cutters at HomeDepot and you can cut your way through at night, move the barriers, and drive right through without anyone seeing you.

What's the purpose? $10 for a set of bolt-cutters at HomeDepot and you can cut your way through at night, move the barriers, and drive right through without anyone seeing you.

Ahhh, but you see Home Depot is on the NORTH side of the fence...

Not if they make the fence electrified. And have a moat on the other side. With crocodiles.

Just spray liberally mines around. On the mexican side of course!

Just spray liberally mines around.

Those liberal mines takes ages to detonate, they have to discuss everything.

Well they have to decide whether or not to blow up the jaguar that accidently stepped on it.

Come to think of it, will the fence harm migration routes used by animals?

Come to think of it, will the fence harm migration routes used by animals?

No american students can still fly to Cancun for springbreak.

all they have to do is tell the republican farmers to stop hiring illegal immegrants for illegal employment and then the tax money for building the fence would be saved.

The Feds have to look strong against immigration, while they are actually for it, since it keeps wages low. They actually support making all of North America a free trade zone like Europe, where non-union Mexican truckers can drive from non-union ports in Mexico all the way across the US or Canada.

all they have to do is tell the republican farmers to stop hiring illegal immegrants for illegal employment and then the tax money for building the fence would be saved.

So that's where humanity's been going wrong all these years!

We should just tell Kim Jong Il he's been a naughty boy and his toys will be taken away if he doesn't behave.

Let's spank Ahmadinejad if he plays with uranium when we told him he couldn't.

The mexicans should have a time out if they're caught coming across the border. Tell them it's just not on, they can't behave like that and if they do it again they'll be in big trouble.

there are h ome depots in mexico, there jsut raining facilities thats all.

there are home depots in mexico, they're just training facilities that's all.Do they have little shelters in the parking lot to pick up day laborers from Guatemala?

The purpose of the fence is to force our southern neighbors to do more work for less money than they can make at home doing less work.

Business is business. ;)

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h197/absane/inyourcountry.jpg

Says it all.

PUT UP A FUCKING GREAT WALL OF CHINA. SIMPLE. DONE.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h197/absane/inyourcountry.jpg

Says it all.

PUT UP A FUCKING GREAT WALL OF CHINA. SIMPLE. DONE.No. How 'bout keeping the Mexican illegals and deporting the racists and conservatives? Sounds like a far better idea. The White Right has done more damage to this country than any hardworking illegal from the 3rd World ever could.

Some of the fences that they're putting up are much more secure (defensive?) obstacles then the one I posted. But my point is that these fences are ridiculous. They are not a barrier. Especially in the case of the one I posted. I just couldn't help but laughing at how ridiculous that one was/is!

Here in Arizona, the Sonoran desert is a much greater obstacle than the fences are and about 200 illegal aliens die each year trying to cross it once they get past the border. This, in part, fuels the flames to give amnesty to them. Some activists groups have even set up posts along the way to give illegal Mexican immigrants water in the desert! Other groups, as you may have heard of, have armed themselves and posted vigilante groups to stop them.

I think Absane has the best idea: "Put up a Great Wall of China." In this case you would have a wall high enough that one or a small group of individuals could not scaffle over, with sentries posted about every quarter mile or so to signal to the main post to quickly come with reenforcements. In modern age, these sentries are easily replace by infrared cameras. I bet this is what will happen in the near future.

Some of the fences that they're putting up are much more secure (defensive?) obstacles then the one I posted. But my point is that these fences are ridiculous. They are not a barrier. Especially in the case of the one I posted. I just couldn't help but laughing at how ridiculous that one was/is!

Here in Arizona, the Sonoran desert is a much greater obstacle than the fences are and about 200 illegal aliens die each year trying to cross it once they get past the border. This, in part, fuels the flames to give amnesty to them. Some activists groups have even set up posts along the way to give illegal Mexican immigrants water in the desert! Other groups, as you may have heard of, have armed themselves and posted vigilante groups to stop them.

I think Absane has the best idea: "Put up a Great Wall of China." In this case you would have a wall high enough that one or a small group of individuals could not scaffle over, with sentries posted about every quarter mile or so to signal to the main post to quickly come with reenforcements. In modern age, these sentries are easily replace by infrared cameras. I bet this is what will happen in the near future.Again though, when the US is majority Hispanic who pays to tear down the Race Wall? Let's spend our money more wisely.

If they set up automated turrets to open fire at anyone who approached the border, a few people would get killed. But I'd bet they would learn fast.

No. How 'bout keeping the Mexican illegals and deporting the racists and conservatives? Sounds like a far better idea. The White Right has done more damage to this country than any hardworking illegal from the 3rd World ever could.

For one they are not even paying taxes. Two, I have nothing wrong with Mexicans in the US. I have a problem with ANYONE coming into this country illegally.. and right now our biggest problem is the US/Mexican border. Three: diseases.

It's so insecure lots of other unwanted people could come into this country. Smuggle a nuke, anyone?

Also.. are you aware of this? http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-b10_2apprenticeoct13,0,6859639.story?track=rss

I mean.. WTF? If you can cross the border TWICE like that.. I wonder what else could pass through...

This isn't a problem of racism. Sure, racists have a louder voice than those that aren't racist that want the same problem fixed... but the problem needs to be fixed.

Again though, when the US is majority Hispanic who pays to tear down the Race Wall? Let's spend our money more wisely.
Being against illegal immigration is not racist. Most hispanics in the US are against illegal immigration. Including me.

For one they are not even paying taxes.

So they are republicans. republicans are humans too you know.

For one they are not even paying taxes.

Don't be so sure about that.
If they have social security numbers and whatnot, they're going to do what they need to do to keep their identity safe. That means that they pay their taxes.

After all, most people get their taxes taken out from their paychecks and get money back in April.

Illegals rarely file for income tax returns.
They're overpaying.

Of course, some work under the table. But, so do a lot of citizens.

Don't be so sure about that.
If they have social security numbers and whatnot, they're going to do what they need to do to keep their identity safe. That means that they pay their taxes.

After all, most people get their taxes taken out from their paychecks and get money back in April.

Illegals rarely file for income tax returns.
They're overpaying.

Of course, some work under the table. But, so do a lot of citizens.

Most of those I have come across (or forced to work with) were paid cash.

Yes, there are some that are illegally employeed by regular businesses (I think Wal-Mart got in trouble for this). However, most of them are just paid with cash or personal check.

They tend to average about $10 per hour UNTAXED.. to us that pay taxes, that is about 14$ an hour. I could live off that money.

What stops you from doing the same job?

What stops you from doing the same job?

Nothing as of right now. But if you have X number of jobs, and (making up a figure here) 20% are taken by those that are not here legally.. how about those extra number of those here legally that cannot get that job?

Do you invite animals into your house that you did not invite?

I like workers ants in my house. They clean for me.

Deear Posters

what i find amusing about all of this mexcian immigration is that The US see that they need to build a wall to keep the mexicans out of their country, which in fact means that they cant control their ownborders, so who the hell do they think they are trying to tell Syria to stop Iraqi insuregents moving across their border and saying Syria is aiding the insurgency by letting it happen..

the words Black, kettle and pot spring to mind.

#################
take care
zak

I heard someone say that, if white legals picked the tomatoes they would cost 25$ each instead of 25 cents. That is an exaggeration, but true in some sense.

I heard someone say that, if white legals picked the tomatoes they would cost 25$ each instead of 25 cents. That is an exaggeration, but true in some sense.

Supply and demand would fix that. If someone wants a job and they are charging too much to do it, either that person will find another job or lower their price.

Though, we also need to fix the mentality that every kid is going to grow up and get a nice cozy job in an office and would never have to lift a finger. That's just bullshit.

And parenting.. sheesh.

Nothing as of right now. But if you have X number of jobs, and (making up a figure here) 20% are taken by those that are not here legally.. how about those extra number of those here legally that cannot get that job?


last time I checked unemployment figures of the US didn't show anything to worry about: 5.1%

5.1% is exactly the unemployment figure companies like have. It keeps wages down, but there is not too much unemployment to cause instability.

Hence I don't really see your concerns. Please go an start plucking oranges for 10$ an hour. You merely support your economy. You keep prices low. You spend your hard earned cash in the USA supporting american companies.


Do you invite animals into your house that you did not invite?

Would I invite someone into my house I did not invite? Surely if I didn't invite them I didn't invite them.

Mexicans on the other hand you did invite. Moreover you pay them to come. This is beyond a friendly invitation, this is a bribe. Come please. We need you. We will pay you!

And I really cannot appreciate the analogy of mexicans being depicted as animals or servants. Unless in the same analogy Americans are beasts.

The Mexicans that bring the illegal immigrants over are called "coyotes" and the illegal Mexican immigrants are called "pollo,"or "chicken." The coyotes are the most vicious criminal element and corruption at its lowest level. Paying coyotes is like paying a drug dealer for your kids because this ultimately where the money goes - back to drug dealers in Mexico who then transfer this money to send drugs to the open market in the U.S. Furthermore, many of the pollo who are caught and then sent back to Mexico are either forced into debt slavery and end up doing agricultural work for virtually no money (several slavery rings have even been discovered in southern Florida), or are deported back to dangerous areas where they are killed by gangs.

On the other hand, undocumented migrants are actually an asset to the U.S. because they are willing to do the menial jobs for low pay that almost all Americans would refuse to do. Thus they are helping our economy! Unfortunately, after 9-11, undocumented migrants are now perceived as a threat to national security as their presence represents a breach in the border.

In the evening, they slip back into the make-shift covers and overhangs that they have fashioned out of plastic tarps and discarded rope. They pass the time playing cards and watching a television they power with a car battery. All the money they make is sent back home to Mexico as none of them could ever afford even the meagerist cost of rent in the U.S. These are the Mexican "maquiladoras."

"Since 2000, Border Angels has placed and maintained 340 "water stations" throughout the region as well as a large number of "winter stations" within the local mountain areas. Marked with the words "water" and agua, the stations are simple boxes filled with one-gallon water containers in the summer. In the winter, food, clothing and blankets are added. Morones contends that the stations are a last resort and not a lifeline for border crossers. Anyone who crosses should be prepared for the worst, no matter what. With temperatures reaching as high as 127 degrees in the desert in the summer and plunging below freezing in the mountains during the winter, the stations can mean the difference between life and death to ill-equipped migrants. "We're seeing signs that what we're doing is helping people," said volunteer Jim Fife. "Every empty box is uplifting, it generally means that someone's life has been saved. When it comes to this organization, it doesn't matter if you're pro or anti-immigration, it's all about saving people's lives." http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/migrant/20030621-9999-border.html

The USA has enough production capacity to supply the entire world with recreational drugs. If Americans are buying them from Mexican gangsters--or from American gangsters for that matter--you can thank the Nanny State and its illegal war on drugs.

Reread the chapter on supply and demand in your Econ 101A textbook.

last time I checked unemployment figures of the US didn't show anything to worry about: 5.1%

5.1% is exactly the unemployment figure companies like have. It keeps wages down, but there is not too much unemployment to cause instability.

Low unemployment drives inflation up.

It's believed the United States rate of unemployment is at, or ver close to, its natural rate. That means that the 5.1% of Americans who are currently looking for a job are doing so not because the economy can't employ them, but because they either just entered the job market, they were fired (for being unsuited for their job), or are searching for a better job.

Low unemployment drives inflation up.

It's believed the United States rate of unemployment is at, or ver close to, its natural rate. That means that the 5.1% of Americans who are currently looking for a job are doing so not because the economy can't employ them, but because they either just entered the job market, they were fired (for being unsuited for their job), or are searching for a better job.

I read it the other way around. 5% relieves companies from salary pressure. If everybody had a job the people can ask whatever they want for a salary. If there are enough unemployed people circulating the companies can dictate better what salaries to pay.

This is making me sleepy, grrrrr.

I think Mexico should become part of the US, they're on the same land afterall anyways. Why not merge them with us, then develp their country / land so we become vastly stronger then we currently are.

This is making me sleepy, grrrrr.

I think Mexico should become part of the US, they're on the same land afterall anyways. Why not merge them with us, then develp their country / land so we become vastly stronger then we currently are.

speechless...

the reson mexicans are crossing the borders is the free trade agremeent thing that they has sighned iwht the U.S becuaseo f it, we cae in and started mass prducing htings, the U.S sells corn in mexico for 30% less then it costs ot MAKE it.
there ocmmnig ot the U.S becuase of the free trade agrement hting.... ( NAFTA?)

i dont have a place to sorce my information, all i can say is i heard it in a lecture i went to lsitne to at a colloge for bonus points in my high schoo lworld cultures class, so you might think my 2 cnets is invalid, indead you may be write, lectures can be one sided but anywho....

*my 2 cents*

This is making me sleepy, grrrrr.

I think Mexico should become part of the US, they're on the same land afterall anyways. Why not merge them with us, then develp their country / land so we become vastly stronger then we currently are.

Amazing insight.

No only will the US become WEAKER and even more corrupt (the Mexican gov't is very corrupt), but by your logic all of Europe and Asia could come together.

I think Mexico should become part of the US, they're on the same land afterall anyways. Why not merge them with us, then develop their country / land so we become vastly stronger then we currently are.We could annex Mexico but just make it a territory like Puerto Rico. All the Mexicans would become U.S. citizens. They wouldn't have to learn English. We'd have an obligation to improve the place but not to try to bring it up to the standards of Ohio, or even Mississippi. Just the abolition of tariffs would improve their economy. We'd clean up their government but not quickly or completely and after all our standards in that regard aren't so high. We would at least do something about the racism that keeps their Indians down. We'd probably give them land for reservations and they could build their own casinos just like our Indians. Mexicans would be welcome up here but if life there were only somewhat better I'll bet there wouldn't be nearly as much interest in doing it. If it were part of the U.S. more Americans would go live there because it would be cheaper and they could have servants.

And we'd only have to build a fence along that tiny border with Guatemala, it would save us so much money.

I read it the other way around. 5% relieves companies from salary pressure. If everybody had a job the people can ask whatever they want for a salary. If there are enough unemployed people circulating the companies can dictate better what salaries to pay.

Have you ever left one job to look for another job? That contributes to unemployment. And that's a nice thing about capitalism. You can choose where you want to work.

How would the tens of thousands of US employers conspire to set a 5% minimum wage?

The USA has enough production capacity to supply the entire world with recreational drugs. If Americans are buying them from Mexican gangsters--or from American gangsters for that matter--you can thank the Nanny State and its illegal war on drugs.

Reread the chapter on supply and demand in your Econ 101A textbook.What does production capacity have anything to do with the availability of illegal substances??? The reason we import pot and cocaine from Mexico and Central and South America is because THEIR governments aren't as vigilant as ours, nor are the penalties for laws that enforce the illegalities of producing it vigorously enforced as much as they are here. So American users turn abroad to supply the demand. Supply and demand is a two way street and there are equal arguments on each side of the coin to debate this. Read your Econ 101A textbook.

When I was in Cancun on Isle de Mujeres one of the soldiers at a small military base there told me that the crates on board the ferry near the back contained marijuana that was being flown up North from the base. This was quite a while back, but is quite exemplatory as to how governments South of the border just turn the other cheek.

Bush signed a deal to implement the border fence. TEAR DOWN THE WALL!

Link: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061026/D8L0D9HG0.html

Have you ever left one job to look for another job? That contributes to unemployment. And that's a nice thing about capitalism. You can choose where you want to work.

No, I never have. I always had the other job before I quit.


How would the tens of thousands of US employers conspire to set a 5% minimum wage?

They don't. It's how it works.

Why do France, Germany and other European countries with stricter labor laws (presumably laws to protect workers) have such high unemployment?

The US has less regulation and more jobs, Europe has more regulation and fewer jobs.

Why do France, Germany and other European countries with stricter labor laws (presumably laws to protect workers) have such high unemployment?

The US has less regulation and more jobs, Europe has more regulation and fewer jobs.Jobs in Western Europe pay much better. They also have excellent health insurance and other hard won benefits American workers lost when the profiteers in power sent jobs to the 3rd World, thus lowering the US living standard.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h197/absane/inyourcountry.jpg

Says it all.

PUT UP A FUCKING GREAT WALL OF CHINA. SIMPLE. DONE.

Ahem. Are you fucking serious? Yes, they are taking jobs, but honestly, they're not jobs any white person would want. They do some of the dirtiest shit for the lowest wages. Even if you got paid good wages, you really wouldn't want to do what they do. They're not taking over your jobs; you're just fucking racist and have forgotten the fact that at one point (unless you're a Native American) your ancestors were immigrants to this country also.

Ahem. Are you fucking serious? Yes, they are taking jobs, but honestly, they're not jobs any white person would want. They do some of the dirtiest shit for the lowest wages. Even if you got paid good wages, you really wouldn't want to do what they do. They're not taking over your jobs; you're just fucking racist and have forgotten the fact that at one point (unless you're a Native American) your ancestors were immigrants to this country also.I mean jobs that went to southeast Asia, China, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Electronics, clothing, customer service/tech jobs. Not fucking farmhands dumbass:rolleyes:

And yeah, my great-great grandparents came to NYC from Sweden. My other side is 5th generation American coming from The Netherlands & Britain.

Ahem. Are you fucking serious? Yes, they are taking jobs, but honestly, they're not jobs any white person would want. They do some of the dirtiest shit for the lowest wages. Even if you got paid good wages, you really wouldn't want to do what they do. They're not taking over your jobs; you're just fucking racist and have forgotten the fact that at one point (unless you're a Native American) your ancestors were immigrants to this country also.

Ok. I have a few points.

One, what person wants to work anyway? Should illegal immigrants take all of our jobs?

We want to be paid, say $14 per hour to help build a house. In a fair market, this would work out. Taxes make this a REAL wage of about $10 an hour. We pay illegal immigrants $10 per hour to do the job. What happened to the taxes? How did they get social security without paying?

If I am paid fair market value for a job, I have no room to bitch about the pay.

People are lazy. People are dishonest.

I am not racist.

I am not Native American. And even they immigrated to to America.

We want to be paid, say $14 per hour to help build a house. In a fair market, this would work out. Taxes make this a REAL wage of about $10 an hour. We pay illegal immigrants $10 per hour to do the job. What happened to the taxes? How did they get social security without paying?Perhaps you personally are an honorable American and would work for a fair wage, but there are plenty who give us a bad name. My buddy wanted to finish his basement. Nothing fancy, not a studio apartment, just some drywall so it could be used as a rumpus room. A licensed union contractor looked him straight in the eye and offered to do it for thirteen thousand dollars. It would take a couple of weeks.

He didn't want to do it but he was pissed. He found four Latinos with a truck and took them to Home Depot. He bought his own drywall and they schlepped it to the site. They finished the job in one day. He handed them a thousand dollars and they were embarrassed. They each counted out a hundred and thanked him -- $12.50 an hour. Then he was embarrassed. He had been chatting and knew a bit about their families. So he handed the first guy the other $150 and said it was so he could buy something nice for his wife Lupe. Then $150 to the next guy to buy something for his son Danilo, etc. $31.25 an hour and everybody in the room thought it was the best bargain they'd ever seen.

He says he actually felt good about helping to put the rip-off contractor out of business. Some people deserve to have their jobs offshore-outsourced. I guess I understand why people shop at Wal-Mart.

Jobs in Western Europe pay much better. They also have excellent health insurance and other hard won benefits American workers lost when the profiteers in power sent jobs to the 3rd World, thus lowering the US living standard.

What good is that when upwards of 10% of the work force is unemployed, most of them chronically?

It's difficult to get a job in europe.

Why do France, Germany and other European countries with stricter labor laws (presumably laws to protect workers) have such high unemployment?

The US has less regulation and more jobs, Europe has more regulation and fewer jobs.

Is that strictly true?

According to the definition used by the Dutch Statistics Agency CBS, unemployment is at 5.5% of the labour force. By Eurostat standards however, unemployment in the Netherlands is at only 3.8% - the lowest rate of all European Union member states (figures: June 2006).

According to the definition used by the Dutch Statistics Agency CBS, unemployment is at 5.5% of the labour force. By Eurostat standards however, unemployment in the Netherlands is at only 3.8% - the lowest rate of all European Union member states (figures: June 2006).

That's Europe, not France and Germany, two countries exemplary of the cost of high unemployment benefits, high minimum wage, and laws that force long labor contracts on businesses.

If benefits for unemployment are high, people stay unemployed longer, driving up the natural rate of unemployment. Empirical evidence shows this to be true.

If there's a minimum wage, cost of production goes up, and fewer people are employed. This means a higher natural rate of unemployment. Empirical evidence shows this to be true.

If companies have to hire workers for a minimum of a year or 6 months or some length of time (I'm unsure what the precise laws are in these two countries), then companies will be less willing to hire new employees, as there's a high level of risk involved. If they hire an employee that sucks, they have to keep him or her on the job for the next year before they can get rid of them. It also makes it hard for companies to adapt to fluctuations in the market. If demand suddenly drops, the company still must keep on workers to produce a product they can no longer sell.

While some Western Europeans may have great social welfare programs, they're not working for significant portions of the population. These 8 to 10 percent unemployed are often chronically unemployed, going without jobs for years or even decades.

That's Europe, not France and Germany, two countries exemplary of the cost of high unemployment benefits, high minimum wage, and laws that force long labor contracts on businesses.

If benefits for unemployment are high, people stay unemployed longer, driving up the natural rate of unemployment. Empirical evidence shows this to be true.

If there's a minimum wage, cost of production goes up, and fewer people are employed. This means a higher natural rate of unemployment. Empirical evidence shows this to be true.

If companies have to hire workers for a minimum of a year or 6 months or some length of time (I'm unsure what the precise laws are in these two countries), then companies will be less willing to hire new employees, as there's a high level of risk involved. If they hire an employee that sucks, they have to keep him or her on the job for the next year before they can get rid of them. It also makes it hard for companies to adapt to fluctuations in the market. If demand suddenly drops, the company still must keep on workers to produce a product they can no longer sell.



So that includes the netherlands then. The empirical evidence that proves your point appears to be disproven by empirical evidence.