U.N./Going to war w.o. approval

I looked around the first 3 pages for a thread relevant to this, couldn't find it..sorry if this is a repeat. But i'm wondering, WILL Bush have los cajones to go to war with Iraq without U.N. approval? And, if he does so, how will that effect things, really? Will there be sanctions..retaliation...resentment.... or will we get off scotch-free because of some BS reason?

 

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its not a case of WILL he, he WILL, he's already made it clear.
He only wants the UN resolution to make things easier, you know to placate the people.
Its the lube before he a$$ fecks Iraq and the rest of the world.
He's happy to go without it but expect a lot of screaming.

Unfortunatly though he hasn't made it as blatant, our Tony Blair has never the less made it clear he will drag britain kick and screaming along with him, after all he has been supporting the Incursions into the no fly zones for long enough which i dont even think are UN Sanctioned...I'll check that so don't quote me on it yet.

It will really proove to the world America consider them Police of the world and are happy to attack anyone they want no matter what the rest of the world or even their own people think and kill countless civillians while they are at it.
Yes i know thats a part of any war but the lengths they are going to, hitting iraq and its infrastructure with more bombs in the first 48 hours than the last gulf war used all together...theres no reason or justification for destruction and death on that level and then you have to consider they are itching for a reason to let a few nukes go in as well.

without a UN resolution Europe will go mad, Not at a government level maybe, but the people of Europe and even America will see it for what it is.
America flipping its finger and assuming the power to do what they want to anyone, that would include us.
As for the middle east and beyond, They will all see it for what it is, America has been let loose, Europe and the UN won't/Can't do anything about it, hell many even support them so they will rightly assume they are next and you don't need to guess the rest.
Terrorism will explode, Countries will deport American dignataries and close the consulates, they will attack american forces where they find them and America will use it as an excuse to carry on the war across the globe using bigger and bigger weapons dragging its "allies" along with it...until some of those allies themselves find themselves on the receiving side.

...at least thats what a subscriber to the Apocolyptic school of thought would say

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You mean “US/Going to war..” and not the U.N.

I personally don’t think that Bush has the “Cojones” to force an attack on Iraq. Not because he doesn’t have the madness to do it, but because his own government will step up and prevent it, not only because he has abused his powers, but because most of the things that he’s been doing are anti-constitutional while laying the anti-terror blanket to cover up social-economic degradation in our own land.

Summer in Middle East is approaching fast, and it will be suicidal to endeavor on an attack from the month of April onwards. The Turks have democratically spoke, also key European countries are expressing in most clear terms that the US formula is totally wrong.

For some months we were discussing the craziness of Bush with the Iraq issue, but as time goes by. It is turning into a total madness.
:m:

 

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Turning, Turning, turned.


His actions Unconstitutional...yep in fact they have pretty much ripped the constitution to peices already.
They have re-defined what it is to be human so they can just call you something along the lines of Terrorist or Disentest and you have no rights, your have no rights to vote....

Yes he needs to attack now or the heat will be suicidal for him which is why i think he may well go ahead very soon or he will be left sitting without a war for a long many months before his next window on Iraq to distract from the damage his policies have had on the American people and how far he had enroached onto their human and constitutional rights, also he will be left with no near sollution to the financal black hole America is in and he has gone out of his way to push it futher and deeper into that hole.

I wouldn't be suprised that even if his masters do Reign him in he will soon be turning on N.Korea or India/Pakistan etc but the Oil wells were kinda central to everything i think, once he had the Oil he would of had OPEC by the short and curleys and a good supply of Oil and influx of Contracts for rights to that oil in favour of America and American big business allowing him to start showing possotive face onto financial woes at home and buy back the support of large swarths of public opinion, it would be a lot easier for him...can i bring myself to belive that failing this the unbelivable will have happened..that the world still has enough sense to of pulled just short of the brink of self destruction...maybe....maybe....

 

Bush will not intiate the war in defense of UN resolutions/charter -- particularly resolutions the UN is not interested in enforcing by the granting of its authority to any such effort.

However, the US will act to defend its national security with a smaller coalition of nations feeling similarly about their own.

The UN has no responsibility for protecting the United States from its adversaries unasked, nor does it have any such authority to do so.

Nor does the UN have the authority to prevent the US from defending its national security.

But the UN does seem to have the authority to pass resolutions.

Thus is the rest of the gallery similarly relegated to spectator status.

Enjoy the show.

Have a nice day.

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A US-Iraq war is a done deal, it's not a question of if, but of when. My guess is that it will start within the next 2 weeks, we are getting dangerously close to Summer.

 

Let’s try not to confuse the subject unnecessarily.

UN can only enforce its resolutions by unanimous decision of its members, and not unilaterally. Israel has the largest violation of UN resolutions in record and no UN member has presented to the UN community a request for action/sanction against Israel. In same manner US has the largest number of utilizing veto, and yet they sounded alarmed at the possibility that Russia or France may use it.

Sure, but since they can not prove it (national security threat), and since the US has the worst record in proliferation of weapons of mass destructions. The rest of the world has also the right to defend International Security. This is exactly what the world community is doing in a democratic manner.

That fully correct, the International Community as represented by the UN has no authority and neither its their scope to protect a country that hasn’t been attacked
And simply claims to be molested by a dictatorship government that doesn’t like the US nor their policy in Middle East or bias support for the Israelis.

Obviously no, and neither does the US has the authority to destabilized a region against the will of nations or to attack another country on an unprovoked war.

In reality it is passing the will of nations in a democratic way without using executive orders, isn’t it? And just because this time it is against Bush’s pretensions, it doesn’t make it less legitimate, doesn’t it?

Yes, I think most people that watch it behind the stage curtain, ….we are enjoying it tremendously. Thanks!
:m:

 

Mr. G: ("Thus is the rest of the gallery similarly relegated to spectator status") I am a participant, not a spectator. This is far too important to the future of this world to be otherwise.

France, Germany, Russia, Turkey, and millions in unrepresented majorities in many other countries are participating.

To quote another Bush: "This naked aggression will not stand".

 

As for summer heat. Did Iraq and Iran call a cease fire every summer?

 

Absolutely right, Fudd: The occupation of Iraq, regardless of when the invasion ends, will get very, very hot in many ways.

 

For the time being, maybe. But are you a playa?

Obviously the "world according to the status quo" isn't about to be quo much longer. So much for its ability to keep the peace.

(Somewhere a butterfly must have flapped its wings because there's a storm brewing just offshore.)

Perhaps it is in the best tradition of rebelling against the tyranny of the majority that "a small, ragtag fleet", er, coalition of the willing, is going to exercise the democratic principle that minorities have a right to be playas, too.

Isn't relativism such a lovely concept? It can work for everyone, no one, and only the enlightened, all at the same time!

 

thank you all for the responses.. very informative

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Very nice, Mr. G. but you have thus far never debunked the "statusquonik" theories that the powers that be are heading for a disatrous failure, and their potential decline, in the MidEast.

 

To debunk such hypotheses they first must be subjected to testing for falsifiability.

I submit that you are premature in requiring an immediate conclusion one way or the other before testing even begins.

 

Every American intervention in the MidEast has been a test. The violent results have been the conclusion. Backlash and instability is to be expected in this most large-scale and unpopular one. Noone can claim conclusive prediction of the future, but the odds are overwhelmingly against acceptance of enhanced American-Israeli hegemony, especially with dubious international concurrance.

American Credibility
Arab Public Opinion and U.S. Foreign Policy
The Reasons for the Enmity and Hatred
Jordanian Polls
Palestinian Polls
Peace gets buried

 

"The Arab and Islamic world is divided."
This is the "overwhelmingly against acceptance of enhanced American....hegemony" you wish us to buy into?

I left out the "-Israeli" component for being such an obvious rhetorical device.

 

Bush awaits permission from the passive
I'm an Independent; this Conservative Republican pretty well sums up my attitudes on the matter, too.

 

Bush and Ashcroft have only added to the "shredding" of the 4th amendment. I agree. The UN? I do not care WHAT they think. They have proven themselves to be leftists. The nations they "speak for" did not have HUGE passenger planes crash into their buildings causing thousands of deaths. Bush has not forgotten. We will attack soon. I just hope we test the F-22 prototypes to see if they perform as they should.

 

Interesting links. That was quite a spectacle in Qatar, the dying bleat of the Iraqi Baathists, now on the Arab altar.

But the close of that chapter will have little bearing on the fact that empires have had their time. Now, a bloodbath will settle whether Arabs will value their differences over humiliation from American businessmen and their Israeli handlers. I know the answer, and if more westerners could see it, this whole disaster of unknowable scale would not have to happen. Haram. A deplorable waste and shame on us all.

 

Whats Iraq got to do with 9/11?