An interesting thread that I would have continued, it comes from the thread labeled Photos of US soldiers raping Iraqi women (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=35585&page=1&pp=20). All quotes are by Undecided unless otherwise noted.

I don't believe that most American soldiers support this. But what scares me is that here you have apologetics for the unapologitical.

Then you present an illogical paradox, Undecided. There is no apology you consider to be great enough in magnitude, so any attempts at apology "scare you." Would you prefer we just turned our backs and said nothing at all?

The US has taken a beating on this, and so she should. What do you expect the international community to do?

Not be so blatantly hypocritical. Condemning American offenses - which America actually apologizes for and makes an attempt to atone for and takes steps to ensure doesn't happen again - with the amount of malice that they have been condemned with, all the while ignoring or playing down or giving the amount of criticism that should be applied to what we have done to the far worse abuses rife throughout the rest of the world - is blatantly hypocritical on the part of the "international community."

Be like some people here and scoff, and dismiss all this?

Do you mean like they dismiss the ethnic cleansing and two million dead so far in the Sudan? Or maybe the openly repressive nature of Arab society, the discrimination and oppression of women and religions that aren't Islam. Or maybe the Palestinian policy of taking "collaborators" out into the street and summarily executing them.

The US military is a professional one, but elements exist in it that raises serious questions on how much emphasis the US places on ethics.

At least we claim to have some ethics. The only thing I can for the other side is that they make no bones about their brutal religious fascism.

It also lends credence to the idea that the US alone cannot be trusted to regulate itself.

Frustrating? Yes, I suppose it would be. But I don't see how nonviolent sexual abuse and hand-to-hand beatings compares in any way morally to hands being cut off, whippings, being fed feet first into a wood chipper, summary executions because the prisons are overcrowded ( http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5773), use of chemical and biological weapons, decades-long prison terms, electroshock torture, annihilation of entire families, and a host of other techniques that were in full and regular employ in Saddam's Iraq. Where is Saddam's apology to the survivors of entire families that he nearly wiped out, the mothers still waiting for their husbands or sons to come home from work, now fifteen years after the government spirited them off the streets? Where is the "international community's" apology for opposing the ending of it?

Also, another statement thta would be false is that irregardless of what Country A's soldiers to do Country B's soldiers who have been captured, Country B is still required to treat any captured Country A soldiers humanely.

And we don't expect any of our captured soldiers to be treated humanely. Quite frankly, the U.S. military expects for any captured soldiers to end up dead, sooner or later. If we applied this in reverse, the standards of those who take hostages in Iraq of soldiers and civilians, to the prisoners we have...

P.S. I don't see jubilant Americans pouring into the streets celebrating this or any other killings of Arabs by Americans the way Arabs pour into the streets whenever a few Americans are knocked off somewhere.

Eng Grez you are one sad character, is this what you do with your spare time?

Ahh well, I guess but no option but to shame:

Then you present an illogical paradox, Undecided. There is no apology you consider to be great enough in magnitude, so any attempts at apology "scare you." Would you prefer we just turned our backs and said nothing at all?

No what I would have preferred is that the US like most other developed nations stopped being such a hypocrite and sign on to the ICC. If the US wants to be taken seriously when she says she doesn’t do x, to prisoners, or civilians. Then I don’t see why the US wouldn’t join the ICC, is it because of some deep seated fear that the façade of American “benevolence” is really just that a façade, and that should the world independently investigate the crimes that been committed all across the world by the US (Abu Gharib is only part of the story of course), the US will be shown for what it really is a liar. If America really meant what she said, then no need to fear the world.

Not be so blatantly hypocritical. Condemning American offenses - which America actually apologizes for and makes an attempt to atone for and takes steps to ensure doesn't happen again - with the amount of malice that they have been condemned with, all the while ignoring or playing down or giving the amount of criticism that should be applied to what we have done to the far worse abuses rife throughout the rest of the world - is blatantly hypocritical on the part of the "international community."

Well of course some nations should be scoffed at when they condemn American human rights abuses, but others have ever right to bitch. The British weren’t too happy, the French bitched, frankly the whole European Union they have the most progressive human rights laws on that face of the Earth, so “international community” connotates many different things. America mein friend has also been the epitome of hypocrisy, the most blatant example being the citing of Saddam gassing the Kurds in 1988, and the State Department claiming it was Iran when she knew full well it was Iraq, or in 1986 when the US took Iraq off the terrorist state list, then the US has the audacity to site the 1988 attacks as some justification for her actions. Shame on you America, the world is not as ignorant as you may think we are, we remember.

At least we claim to have some ethics. The only thing I can for the other side is that they make no bones about their brutal religious fascism.

Exactly that’s why the other side has a more legitimacy then the US. At least they don’t prance around to be liberators from the torture chambers like Bush said. You are the liars in this instance, you lied when you said the “torture chambers are closed”, the other side makes no bones and they deserve at least some respect for not being a pretentious bunch of ideologues. Just because you claim to have ethics, doesn’t necessary mean you have them.



Frustrating? Yes, I suppose it would be. But I don't see how nonviolent sexual abuse and hand-to-hand beatings compares in any way morally to hands being cut off, whippings, being fed feet first into a wood chipper, summary executions because the prisons are overcrowded

I see the common defense mechanism for the indefensible, we absolve our sins because our torture is better. Ah yes the pathetic rules of the mind, it’s like saying “I only rapped that one little girl, you raped twenty I’m a saint”. Your sins cannot be compared to others because their sins are not yours, and visa versa. The US shouldn’t even be dealing with situation in the first place, but your verge fascist gov’t in office has taken the law into its own hands for example the “combatants” nonsense, at least now the Supreme Court has recognized that your appointed govt has stretched its legal limits.

Also, another statement thta would be false is that irregardless of what Country A's soldiers to do Country B's soldiers who have been captured, Country B is still required to treat any captured Country A soldiers humanely.

You aren’t dealing with countries here, get a clue.

P.S. I don't see jubilant Americans pouring into the streets celebrating this or any other killings of Arabs by Americans the way Arabs pour into the streets whenever a few Americans are knocked off somewhere.

Oh but Americans have a long history of hate crimes, don’t worry. Again don’t absolve your sins by pointing the finger to someone else, you know what my mother always said: “Remember when you point there are three fingers pointing back at you, so be careful.” So Eng get an argument then we shall discuss, adieu.

goddamn. everyone is so harsh. :m:

bogus!
undecided, you do not miss a beat. i'll post my shit even tho you covered it all

Eng Grez

all the while ignoring or playing down or giving the amount of criticism that should be applied to what we have done to the far worse abuses rife throughout the rest of the world - is blatantly hypocritical on the part of the "international community."

what are these "worse abuses" that are being neglected? how do you go about quantifying the "amount of criticism"? headlines? can you really compare this "shock and awe" to any other regional conflict?

At least we claim to have some ethics. The only thing I can for the other side is that they make no bones about their brutal religious fascism.

naturally we should. may i remind you that we are well established nation with a constitution that garauntees that sort of thing. it appears you compare the usa to some ragtag terrorist organizations. why?

regardless, all these laws we are supposed to abide by have been sytematically and deliberately violated by this "war on terror".

why is it a cause for pride if the inhumanity of one's actions differs only in degree from another? should we not aspire to higher standards instead of.."they do it and so shall we!"

that kind of reasoning is rather immature.

Frustrating? Yes, I suppose it would be. But I don't see how nonviolent sexual abuse and hand-to-hand beatings compares in any way morally to hands being cut off, whippings, being fed feet first into a wood chipper, summary executions because the prisons are overcrowded

there are 47 cases of iraqi deaths while in custody of the us. these are currently under investigation.

explain to me how you would engage in "non violent" sexual abuse.

I don't see jubilant Americans pouring into the streets celebrating this or any other killings of Arabs by Americans the way Arabs pour into the streets whenever a few Americans are knocked off somewhere.

that mentality is present when you are fighting an aggressor. successful resistance is always cause for celebration. besides, those mutts like dancing anyway.

oh, americans are now too busy feeling guilty at the murder and mayhem they have caused in iraq.

But I don't see how nonviolent sexual abuse and hand-to-hand beatings compares in any way morally to hands being cut off, whippings, being fed feet first into a wood chipper, summary executions because the prisons are overcrowded

WARNING, GRAPHIC PHOTOS

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/images/abu-ghurayb-prison-abuse01.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iraq/images/abu-ghurayb-prison-abuse21.jpg

I don't see it either,

http://www.resourcecon.com/images/monkey.gif

I didn't see that. 4 More Years!

No what I would have preferred is that the US like most other developed nations stopped being such a hypocrite and sign on to the ICC. If the US wants to be taken seriously when she says she doesn’t do x, to prisoners, or civilians. Then I don’t see why the US wouldn’t join the ICC, is it because of some deep seated fear that the façade of American “benevolence” is really just that a façade, and that should the world independently investigate the crimes that been committed all across the world by the US (Abu Gharib is only part of the story of course), the US will be shown for what it really is a liar. If America really meant what she said, then no need to fear the world.

Despite the either-or logical fallacy in full employ here, Undecided, I eagerly await your condemnation of Russia's and China's refusal to join the ICC either, with as much volume and magnitude that you condemn America. Chechnya, the One Child Policy, a hundred other human rights abuses far worse than anything America has ever committed.

So where is your outrage there? It's nonexistant, because to acknowledge that America is better than anyone else in any way would compromise your self-serving, hypocritical crusade against the United States.

Well of course some nations should be scoffed at when they condemn American human rights abuses, but others have ever right to bitch. The British weren’t too happy, the French bitched, frankly the whole European Union they have the most progressive human rights laws on that face of the Earth, so “international community” connotates many different things. America mein friend has also been the epitome of hypocrisy, the most blatant example being the citing of Saddam gassing the Kurds in 1988, and the State Department claiming it was Iran when she knew full well it was Iraq, or in 1986 when the US took Iraq off the terrorist state list, then the US has the audacity to site the 1988 attacks as some justification for her actions. Shame on you America, the world is not as ignorant as you may think we are, we remember.

What the hell's your point, Undecided? Your definition of hypocrisy leaves a little bit to be desired, seeing as how France and Russia and Germany were far closer bedfellows with Saddam than we were.

We have the "audacity" to list the massacre of 5,000 Kurds using chemical and biological weapons as justification for removing the man responsible for it? Ah, we have reality-denial in full effect here!

Exactly that’s why the other side has a more legitimacy then the US. At least they don’t prance around to be liberators from the torture chambers like Bush said. You are the liars in this instance, you lied when you said the “torture chambers are closed”, the other side makes no bones and they deserve at least some respect for not being a pretentious bunch of ideologues. Just because you claim to have ethics, doesn’t necessary mean you have them.

ROFL

Good day, sir. You've fully gone off the edge. The day mass murderers have more legitimacy than any Western nation is the day that I bow down to Mecca five times a day.

I see the common defense mechanism for the indefensible, we absolve our sins because our torture is better. Ah yes the pathetic rules of the mind, it’s like saying “I only rapped that one little girl, you raped twenty I’m a saint”. Your sins cannot be compared to others because their sins are not yours, and visa versa. The US shouldn’t even be dealing with situation in the first place, but your verge fascist gov’t in office has taken the law into its own hands for example the “combatants” nonsense, at least now the Supreme Court has recognized that your appointed govt has stretched its legal limits.

Where did I attempt to defend it? You use what happened as ammunition in the racist attacks upon the United States, and I call you on it. I'm tired of pussyfooting around it, Undecided. You, like most Muslims one sees speaking on TV blasting America and trying to rationalize far greater Muslim offenses, are generalizers that Goebbels would have been proud to know.

You aren’t dealing with countries here, get a clue.

Gee, Undecided, I never expected you, of all people, to become a neocon mouthpiece.

Oh but Americans have a long history of hate crimes, don’t worry. Again don’t absolve your sins by pointing the finger to someone else, you know what my mother always said: “Remember when you point there are three fingers pointing back at you, so be careful.” So Eng get an argument then we shall discuss, adieu.

Don't dodge, Undecided, it insults you. Name me one time Americans have gone into the streets in the thousands to celebrate Americans killing Arabs.

And let's see, Undecided, if you like taking cheap shots as well as you like dishing them. Try this one:

How do you feel about the Jews? You know, the Jews. How does a Muslim feel about Jews, Undecided? After all, Muslims have a long, long history of hate crimes against Jews specifically.

Didn't like reading that? I didn't think so. It's an incredibly ignorant and bigoted generalization.

Which is maybe why you should stop making incredibly ignorant and bigoted generalizations about Americans.

I don't see it either,

You're deliberately twisting what I said, Undecided, and we all know it. I don't see violent sexual abuse there. I said nonviolent sexual abuse and physical abuse, which is by definition violent. I acknowledged violent abuse, but you didn't bold that part. I wonder why?

Despite the either-or logical fallacy in full employ here,

Show me, I need a laugh, name of the fallacy (real name) and pointed out.

Undecided, I eagerly await your condemnation of Russia's and China's refusal to join the ICC either,

Did I not say developed states? Those states aren’t developed states, and unlike the US they won’t join because they admit they do bad shit. It’s not like the US who prances around like an innocent. Also why are we changing the subject, can’t take the heat. Why doesn’t the US join the ICC? Because she is scared shitless that her façade will be broken, nice try trying to shift the subject but answer my question not your imaginary positions. Why go on a tangent? Oh I know because you have no cognitive defense for your "position". Tangents only show your inability to stay on message. :rolleyes:

So where is your outrage there?

Firstly you should not talk Bull Shit like you are now, secondly I have condemned the actions of Russia in Chechnya so don’t speak bull shit you know nothing about, thirdly China has a bad policy but I understand what China has One Child Policy, I think anyone here would. Fourthly the one child policy is an internal matter thus is not in the discretion of the ICC, so get a new point there little one/ At least China does it to her own people, and not to foreign innocents. And more tangents to come:

It's nonexistant, because to acknowledge that America is better than anyone else in any way would compromise your self-serving, hypocritical crusade against the United States.

Take your untermenschen words out of mouth please, they taste like the shit they are.

What the hell's your point, Undecided? Your definition of hypocrisy leaves a little bit to be desired, seeing as how France and Russia and Germany were far closer bedfellows with Saddam than we were.

Ahh but was it France, Germany, and Russia who was pretentiously screaming about Saddam? Was it the three who were there who used the WMD as an excuse no, so they aren’t being hypocrites. Secondly the three did not actively defend Saddam like the US did in the 80’s with the gassing, yet today uses that as an excuse to do its bidding. You have to either, mentally retarded, or schizophrenic like the US not to see how hypocritical the US has been.

We have the "audacity" to list the massacre of 5,000 Kurds using chemical and biological weapons as justification for removing the man responsible for it?

Yes you do, because it was you who gave Saddam satellite photos so he could gas, you gave Saddam WMD, you gave Saddam a blank check to do his bidding on the Kurds, and now you have the audacity to complain about it! Get a brain, and get a clue.

Ah, we have reality-denial in full effect here!

Mind pointing it out here?

Good day, sir. You've fully gone off the edge. The day mass murderers have more legitimacy than any Western nation is the day that I bow down to Mecca five times a day.

They are mass murders? Do you know what mass murderers are? Hitler is a mass murderer, Bush’s adventure in Iraq killed up to 12,000 innocent Iraqi’s yet you call them mass murders? Irony at it’s best here untermensch!

Where did I attempt to defend it?

By stating that your torture is nothing compared to others, that the US’ actions weren’t that bad. That is a defense:

But I don't see how nonviolent sexual abuse and hand-to-hand beatings compares in any way morally to hands being cut off,

That’s a defense of American actions, by absolving your sins on the hands of others, too bad it’s so anti-intellectual only a child would use it.

You use what happened as ammunition in the racist attacks upon the United States

Being American is racial, that’s a new one. Your so ignorant!

You, like most Muslims one sees speaking on TV blasting America and trying to rationalize far greater Muslim offenses, are generalizers that Goebbels would have been proud to know.

Ermm…I have condemned the actions of Muslims as well here. Why do you insist to talk out of your ass? Have you read all of my posts? If not then STFU! Secondly I’m not a Muslim, thirdly I am not rationalizing anything I am merely telling you where you are wrong.

Gee, Undecided, I never expected you, of all people, to become a neocon mouthpiece.

Like that tried to make sense?

Don't dodge, Undecided, it insults you. Name me one time Americans have gone into the streets in the thousands to celebrate Americans killing Arabs.

Oh well Americans are much more sinister in their expression of hatred:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_hate.htm

How do you feel about the Jews? You know, the Jews. How does a Muslim feel about Jews, Undecided? After all, Muslims have a long, long history of hate crimes against Jews specifically.

Actually Jews are being victimized by their own, Muslims and Jews have a history of tolerance. It is the Christian/Jewish connection that has caused the most tension. If I remember correctly it was Christians who gassed 6 million Jews, not Muslims. Real Jews support freedom of Arabs on what is their land, but I digress this is a totally different thread, a tangent. This tangent obviously indicates your lack of argumentation against me, so try again there champ.

Didn't like reading that? I didn't think so. It's an incredibly ignorant and bigoted generalization.

You give yourself way too much credit.

Which is maybe why you should stop making incredibly ignorant and bigoted generalizations about Americans.

I have to see an actual refutation of what I said, half of your post was against me not the topics at hand. Secondly what bigotry have I exposed, I wanna see some quotes, and then I ask other Americans if they feel I am being a bigot.

You're deliberately twisting what I said, Undecided, and we all know it. I don't see violent sexual abuse there. I said nonviolent sexual abuse and physical abuse, which is by definition violent. I acknowledged violent abuse, but you didn't bold that part. I wonder

Because your proceeding sentence indicated that in the American torture chambers extreme cases of violence did not occur, I merely showed the masses how you are an ignoramus of infamous proportions.

Take your untermenschen words out of mouth please, they taste like the shit they are.

I'm not the one parroting der Fuhrer and Herr Goebbels.

Being American is racial, that’s a new one. Your so ignorant!

Americans are clearly a distinct social group from, say, Canadians or Mexicans. Their ethnic makeup is irrelevant.

But let's just state the obvious: it's those white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant Americans who support Israel and got tired of standing there and letting themselves be hit by Muslims are the Americans you have a problem with. There's your "racial," Undecided. It's we rich WASPs you have a problem with.

Come back when you have something better than pale imitations of arguments that were killed sixty years ago and the typical Muslim rationalizations for terrorism and ignorant racist attacks against Americans.

Like that tried to make sense?

You said the exact same thing the Bush Administration has been saying: that we're not dealing with countries.

Oh well Americans are much more sinister in their expression of hatred:

This is the best you can come up with as proof of ingrained hatred for Muslims on the part of Americans? 20 incidents over a 7 year period? An average of just under 3 incidents per year?

Compare this to:

2 million dead in the Sudan from the Muslim government's attacks on the Christian and indigenous religion-dominated South, with recent focus being on the Darfur region, where hundreds of thousands could starve to death and over a million people are refugees.

http://www.unwire.org/UNWire/20031204/449_11014.asp
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/antisemitism/nf/nb.html

From 1994 to 2001, the link you posted showed 20 anti-Muslim incidents in the US, an average of 3 per year, just about.

Meanwhile, Britain alone averages nearly 300 anti-semitic attacks against Jews per year, and France isn't much better. Synagogues have been burned and vandalized, a new addition to a Jewish private school in Paris was burned, Jews have been attacked, Germany told its Jews to hide any obvious signs of their religion for their own protection, a monument in France commemorating the French Jews who died in the battle of Verdun was vandalized, the list simply goes on and on Undecided, with everyone acknowledging that the majority of those responsible are recent Arab and Muslim immigrants from North Africa.

Actually Jews are being victimized by their own, Muslims and Jews have a history of tolerance. It is the Christian/Jewish connection that has caused the most tension. If I remember correctly it was Christians who gassed 6 million Jews, not Muslims. Real Jews support freedom of Arabs on what is their land, but I digress this is a totally different thread, a tangent. This tangent obviously indicates your lack of argumentation against me, so try again there champ.

Good to know you've gotten a bit fundamentalist. Allahu Akbar, as the Muslims say. Or, how about just a good old secular Sig Heil?

I have to see an actual refutation of what I said, half of your post was against me not the topics at hand. Secondly what bigotry have I exposed, I wanna see some quotes, and then I ask other Americans if they feel I am being a bigot.

You generalize Americans as anti-Muslim bigots, and then bring up an amazing average of 3 anti-Muslim incidents per year as proof. Three. That's an average of .00000008 anti-Muslim attacks committed by each of this country's 294,000,000 inhabitants. Bravo! You've exposed America's massive racism against Muslims!

I'm not the one parroting der Fuhrer and Herr Goebbels.

Well at least we know your slave mentality is alive and kicking.

Americans are clearly a distinct social group from, say, Canadians or Mexicans.

Right… so being “distinct” culturally makes you a race I suppose? I suppose that DNA has no role in determining a race? Hmmm….

Their ethnic makeup is irrelevant.

Especially when your dealing with races!

But let's just state the obvious: it's those white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant Americans who support Israel and got tired of standing there and letting themselves be hit by Muslims are the Americans you have a problem with. There's your "racial," Undecided. It's we rich WASPs you have a problem with.

Too bad that you said “Americans” there are 280 million Ameircans, 7 million being Muslim, and there are more Catholics in the US then Protestants I believe so, to avoid sounding like more of an idiot I would suggest next time you use the proper terminology when you are trying sound somewhat intellectual, kay?

Come back when you have something better

Frankly now your not even dealing with the meat of the debate, after I raped you on the first 2/3’s of the argument you come and blast more ignorance into my face, and you are disservice to humanity.

than pale imitations of arguments that were killed sixty years ago and the typical Muslim rationalizations for terrorism and ignorant racist attacks against Americans.

I will ask you again genius show me a “rationalization”?

You said the exact same thing the Bush Administration has been saying: that we're not dealing with countries.

And you aren’t, Kerry, Putin, Chirac, anyone with a brain will tell you that. Unless of course Al Q is a nation? If I were sounding like a neo-con I would say “you aren’t dealing with a nations, but we should invade those that ‘support’ (whatever that means) the terrorists” have I said that? No so again STFU.

This is the best you can come up with as proof of ingrained hatred for Muslims on the part of Americans? 20 incidents over a 7 year period? An average of just under 3 incidents per year?

That was pre-9.11 of course, now there are much, much more. Also it does seem to prove my point that Americans don’t have to have nice large marches, no rather they can merely terrorize members of their own society into submission.

2 million dead in the Sudan from the Muslim government's attacks on the Christian and indigenous religion-dominated South, with recent focus being on the Darfur region, where hundreds of thousands could starve to death and over a million people are refugees.

And this has to do with our conversation because? You are again going onto another tangent that has no reason for being here. Are we talking about the Sudan, no we are discussing the US so stop being a pussy and deal with the situation.

Meanwhile, Britain alone averages nearly 300 anti-semitic attacks against Jews per year, and France isn't much better. Synagogues have been burned and vandalized, a new addition to a Jewish private school in Paris was burned, Jews have been attacked, Germany told its Jews to hide any obvious signs of their religion for their own protection, a monument in France commemorating the French Jews who died in the battle of Verdun was vandalized, the list simply goes on and on Undecided, with everyone acknowledging that the majority of those responsible are recent Arab and Muslim immigrants from North Africa.

And this has to do with our conversation because? You are again going onto another tangent that has no reason for being here. Are we talking about the Jews, no we are discussing the US so stop being a pussy and deal with the situation.

Good to know you've gotten a bit fundamentalist. Allahu Akbar, as the Muslims say. Or, how about just a good old secular Sig Heil?

Ok now I don’t anyone takes you seriously, how am I a fundamentalist point it out please. Secondly, as I said I am not Muslim reject, thirdly I’m not a Nazi. You are being even more categorical and worse then Hype was with Bushevik retard, you are a hypocrite of biblical proportions.

You generalize Americans as anti-Muslim bigots, and then bring up an amazing average of 3 anti-Muslim incidents per year as proof.

No I didn’t generalize anything, what I merely showed you is that some Americans have a better way to deal with people they don’t like. Actually I did the opposite of generalizing because I showed specific facts so try to learn how to read.

Bravo!

Indeed, you destroyed your own argument, that was easy.

That was pre-9.11 of course, now there are much, much more. Also it does seem to prove my point that Americans don’t have to have nice large marches, no rather they can merely terrorize members of their own society into submission.

This is a typical rear-guard action for when someone is forced to rapidly backpedal from a position. Saying "That was pre-9.11 of course. Now there are much, much more" leaves it to the reader's imagination to fill in just how many "much more." The implication by the author is that the number is significant, but he does not actually provide any on his own.

The outright declaration that Americans are largely racist, particularly against Muslims, is the typical persecution complex you do especially well on. Very nice, Undecided. Nothing like generalizing and calling the Muslims the victim while claiming to be against generalizations!

And this has to do with our conversation because? You are again going onto another tangent that has no reason for being here. Are we talking about the Sudan, no we are discussing the US so stop being a pussy and deal with the situation.

I was merely pointing out the fact that you and your manufactured self-righteous indignation at the alleged injustices of the United States are a bit, shall we say, selective in what you choose to bring to our attention in your posts?

And this has to do with our conversation because? You are again going onto another tangent that has no reason for being here. Are we talking about the Jews, no we are discussing the US so stop being a pussy and deal with the situation.

I'm not discussing the US. I'm discussing this entire planet, Undecided, and the apparent inability of Muslims anywhere, except here, in the West that is allegedly waging a war against Muslims, to get along with anyone who isn't Muslim.

Ok now I don’t anyone takes you seriously, how am I a fundamentalist point it out please. Secondly, as I said I am not Muslim reject, thirdly I’m not a Nazi. You are being even more categorical and worse then Hype was with Bushevik retard, you are a hypocrite of biblical proportions.

If it quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, smells like a duck and generally acts like a duck, then it's a duck.

Right… so being “distinct” culturally makes you a race I suppose? I suppose that DNA has no role in determining a race? Hmmm….

So now we're going to argue over semantics?

Fine, I won't call it racism. I'll call it ignorant, prejudiced anti-American bias. How does that sound?

Especially when your dealing with races!

Especially when your prejudice is obvious!

Too bad that you said “Americans” there are 280 million Ameircans, 7 million being Muslim, and there are more Catholics in the US then Protestants I believe so, to avoid sounding like more of an idiot I would suggest next time you use the proper terminology when you are trying sound somewhat intellectual, kay?

To avoid sounding like more an idiot I would suggest next time doing something called backing up your claims. I know its hard, what with your claims being so blatantly and deliberately ignorant of reality and formed by your blind, laughable anti-American bias, but make an effort, k?

Frankly now your not even dealing with the meat of the debate, after I raped you on the first 2/3’s of the argument you come and blast more ignorance into my face, and you are disservice to humanity.

I'm not the one calling an entire nation of people racist... but hey, when it comes down to ad hominems, you know well! Congratulations.

I will ask you again genius show me a “rationalization”?

Actually Jews are being victimized by their own, Muslims and Jews have a history of tolerance. It is the Christian/Jewish connection that has caused the most tension. If I remember correctly it was Christians who gassed 6 million Jews, not Muslims. Real Jews support freedom of Arabs on what is their land, but I digress this is a totally different thread, a tangent. This tangent obviously indicates your lack of argumentation against me, so try again there champ.


rationalization

a defense mechanism by which your true motivation is concealed by explaining your actions and feelings in a way that is not threatening

I suppose, actually, that quote is more of a "blaming the victim" fallacy.

"The Jews, they brought it on themselves!"

A stunning level of tolerance and intellectual power you showed there, bucko.

eng:

Despite the either-or logical fallacy in full employ here, Undecided, I eagerly await your condemnation of Russia's and China's refusal to join the ICC either, with as much volume and magnitude that you condemn America. Chechnya, the One Child Policy, a hundred other human rights abuses far worse than anything America has ever committed

1) take your pop-philosophy "logical fallacies-by-the-numbers" cribsheet elsewhere.
you think this over used trick adds gravitas to your argument?

2) I suggest you read Howard Zinn's "A people's history of the united states"

god bless amerikkka....ya'll have a nice day now.

This is a typical rear-guard action for when someone is forced to rapidly backpedal from a position.

Mind explaining that to me because not only did I not backpedal, rather I merely reinforced my former position. Not only are some Americans racist to Muslims now, they were prior to 9/11 even happened.

Saying "That was pre-9.11 of course. Now there are much, much more" leaves it to the reader's imagination to fill in just how many "much more."

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/civilrights/a121102.htm

The FBI's 2001 Uniform Crime Reporting Program's Hate Crime Statistics said anti-Islamic incidents, "previously the second least reported, … became the second highest reported among religious-bias incidents," with a total of 481 episodes, second only to anti-Jewish incidents which totaled 1043.
So yes indeed much, much more. So now go reside from the hole you came from. 481 in just one year.
The outright declaration that Americans are largely racist, particularly against Muslims, is the typical persecution complex you do especially well on. Very nice, Undecided. Nothing like generalizing and calling the Muslims the victim while claiming to be against generalizations!

Look above you ignorant bloke, and be shammed you untermenschen fool.

I was merely pointing out the fact that you can’t have a cognitive argument, to defend your position you tried to change the conversation from the US to other nations that have nothing to do with this conversation, yah we aren’t as stupid as you.

I'm not discussing the US. I'm discussing this entire planet, Undecided, and the apparent inability of Muslims anywhere, except here, in the West that is allegedly waging a war against Muslims, to get along with anyone who isn't Muslim.

Well this conversation which you started was about the US, obviously you are schizophrenic because you are thinking and talking in dualities. You could talk about China, or the Moon for all I care. If you want this conversation to remain relevant, stop being a little girl about it, stop crying, and deflecting the conversation and stay on topic, or STFU and admit your cognitive surrender.

If it quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, smells like a duck and generally acts like a duck, then it's a duck.

I asked you to show me all these characteristics so I can verify that I am a “duck”, if you cannot then I kidly ask you to cease and dissest before I shame you more. I know your type, you will post continuously trying to salvage your lost pride, so I urge you to post more because boy the only person making you look stupid is yourself.

So now we're going to argue over semantics?

No we are arguing over the proper use of the English language, please show me anything that suggests that culture determines race, if not then you only make yourself look like an imbecile like you are.

Fine, I won't call it racism. I'll call it ignorant, prejudiced anti-American bias. How does that sound?

Sounds like you.

Especially when your prejudice is obvious!

My prejudice for speaking the English language properly, yah I know.

To avoid sounding like more an idiot I would suggest next time doing something called backing up your claims. I know its hard, what with your claims being so blatantly and deliberately ignorant of reality and formed by your blind, laughable anti-American bias, but make an effort, k?

What is wrong about my above claims? I DARE you to call them wrong little one, or shall I shame you the next time as well?

I'm not the one calling an entire nation of people racist...

Neither did I, I stated that were segments of the American population which are. You sir were the one who generalized the Islamic world by stating they all go out and protest in the streets, so look in the mirror next time you barf idiocy kay?

I suppose, actually, that quote is more of a "blaming the victim" fallacy. .."The Jews, they brought it on themselves!"

Oh and I can prove it so I suggest you don’t even go there.

A stunning level of tolerance and intellectual power you showed there, bucko.

Oh I am not even trying, noticing how long it takes me to reply to your overly simplistic threads, and how long it takes you to reply. It takes me, 10 minutes, you a whole day. You are one slow puppy. This is too easy.