For all the porn lovers, porn haters, porn advocates, porn viewers, porn sluts, porn freaks, porn addicts, porn actor/esses, porn makers or the simply "pornless"...you get the idea...

In thinking about pornography and its influence on both men and women in todays society...is it more harmful then good? Does pornography perpetuate sexual stereotyping and violence or is it a form of free sexual expression that allows people to live out their fantasies in a harmless way? What can we learn from porn and what can't we? Is porn degrading to those who participate in its culture or does it give them the key to their own sexual power and others? In essence, should porn be embraced or eradicated?

There are many conflicting views on pornography and the influence it has on men and women of all ages, races, and backgrounds...

Here are three interesting quotes I found that take very different views and may help generate some ideas and arguments...

Kerwin Kay, a declared male feminist, says he agrees with this statement in many ways despite his fetish for porn...

"We must understand...that the nude women in the pornographer's mind is really only a denied part of himself which he refuses to recognize. But this is a part of himself that has a will to live, a will to expression, a will to being...Even the desacralized and humilated images of pornography must remind the pornographer of his lost self. Even by means of control, the images he has created, he feels himself losing control...Fearing that he will be transformed if he looks on beauty, the pornographer takes possession of a woman's body...he destroys her soul and makes her an object"

Camille Paglia, a well-known female feminist, says, instead, that pornography is a root of positive sexual power for many...a freeing of ones oppression from societies sexual 'norms'.

"You have to accept the fact that part of the sizzle of sex comes from the danger of sex. You can be overpowered...Pornography is human imagination in tense theatrical action; its violations are a protest against the violations of our freedom by nature"

Lastly, a quote from a male porno actor and his views on his work...

"My whole reason for being in the pornography industry is to satisfy the desire of the men in the world who basically don't much care for women and want to see the men in my Industry getting even with the women they couldn't have when they were growing up...So when we come on a woman's face or somewhat brutalize her sexually, we're getting even for their lost dreams. I believe this. I've heard audiences cheer me when I do something foul on screen. When I've strangled a person or sodomized a person or brutalized a person, the audience is cheering my action, and then when I've fufilled my warped desire, the audience applauds"

Do you agree with one or all or none? Do you identify with any of these quotes? Does pornography influence men and women differently?

Please discuss respectfully...

Im a guy but i have to say that the second quote makes the most sence. Further than that it also brings sexuality back to the for front of humanity. For centuries sexuality (especially female sexuality) has been demonised by various people (most noticably the catholic church). Look at some roman pitures and you will see basically what we would concider porn. Sex used to be a very important part of humanity both physically and spirtually and its that which brought about the wrath of the evolving church and to cesar. So i say its a good thing

Pornography is needed for men as it allows them to relieve sexual tension. In all healthy men the tension needs to be relieved and pornography allows it to be relieved efficiently. Many do not have access to sex, rape is illegal and immoral, men cannot just tell their body to stop wanting sex...so they must relieve the tension by other means. To some softcore is enough, to other porn is needed to visualize. This is crucial.

If porn is banned, expect to have more rapes coming up...because men would not be able to relieve the tension inside them.

i love how you compleatly ignore what females need. I guess in your mind girls dont like sex? dont need sex?

you should join the medievil catholic church

i love how you compleatly ignore what females need. I guess in your mind girls dont like sex? dont need sex?

you should join the medievil catholic church

in my mind...Asguard, no, in my belief girls do not have as great of a need for sex as men do. To girls sex is entertainment, not a need. And a way to get pregnant if they wish for it.

i sugest you go tell any 30 year old women she doesnt need sex

i sugest you go tell any 30 year old women she doesnt need sex

I know that at that age women start having a need for sex...but at that age they loose their ability to give birth.

Basically it is too late.

actually i suggest you ask any women who has already had sex if they could chose to give it up for good (no sex, no masterbation ect). Think you might be surpised by the answer you get (asuming they dont slap you)

actually i suggest you ask any women who has already had sex if they could chose to give it up for good (no sex, no masterbation ect). Think you might be surpised by the answer you get (asuming they dont slap you)

Asguard...

I can not ask anyone.

I am alone.

The internet is the only means of communications I have.

I don't talk with no one but here.

So the world I discuss here, the need for sex of others, is only that what I learn from you and the internet.

thats fine:p
Ask bells, orleander, shorty, LA ect if they could never have sex again:p

thats fine:p
Ask bells, orleander, shorty, LA ect if they could never have sex again:p

but they...

And shorty already has said "No to Porn"
Orleander has me on ignore
Bells hates me because I speak the truth she does not wants to hear
LA...she is a mom, she has more important things in life, then talking to me

http://www.tnpsc.com/images2/SleepingAngel.jpg

Asguard...

I can not ask anyone.

I am alone.

The internet is the only means of communications I have.

I don't talk with no one but here.

So the world I discuss here, the need for sex of others, is only that what I learn from you and the internet.

Well let me give you a woman's perspective...
YES! Women need sex just as much as men. I think that men and women's sexuality is different, of course, but I believe that porn should be just as much for women as it is men. The need is a basic human instinct...and since men and women are both human...

When it comes to rape, many would say that the lack of porn would diminish that act because porn can be seen as an 'intelligible language' for those who prefer sexual domination and violence. Ted Bundy, a notorious sexual murderer, blamed porn for his violent and 'deviant' behavior. I disagree. I don't think you can blame pornography or completely dismiss either. There has been no causal link between porno and sexual murder, but I find it interesting that you think rape will increase if it was taken away.

Do you think pornography is strictly 'male oriented' or do you think that women enjoy it as well? Is a woman's need only about getting pregnant?

Do you think pornography is strictly 'male oriented' or do you think that women enjoy it as well? Is a woman's need only about getting pregnant?

Yeah pretty much how I see it.

But don't mind me, I am just saying that because I never had a girlfriend, never kissed a girl, never had sex...and soon I will be 22. So porn or no porn, whatever. Softcore works for me. I guess women do find porn as entertaining sexually but it is not a need for them, like for men.

Im a guy but i have to say that the second quote makes the most sence. Further than that it also brings sexuality back to the for front of humanity. For centuries sexuality (especially female sexuality) has been demonised by various people (most noticably the catholic church). Look at some roman pitures and you will see basically what we would concider porn. Sex used to be a very important part of humanity both physically and spirtually and its that which brought about the wrath of the evolving church and to cesar. So i say its a good thing

I agree. I think Paglia, even as a feminist which many other feminists 'love to hate', has it right on point. Male and female sexuality may differ in ways, but the need for sexual freedom is the same.

i have to say that atitude is bilogically wrong. Sex drive actually has only a very small amount to do with procriation and ALOT to do with the amount of time human off spring are vulnerable. This is shown in nature where the length of time of infancy is long you get animals who enjoy sex like dolphins and other primates as well as humans.

As for your question wether porn increases antisocial behavor like rape and murder im sure there have been scientific studies done on this. The dificulty will be in wether the people doing the studies had a bias (ie anti porn) or not and there method. Oviously randomised controled trials wouldnt be possable in this which weakens the strength of evidence

even dominance\submission doesnt nessarly mean that there is anything 'perverse" or vilont (in the criminal sence) involved. Look at the amount of women who have rape fantisies. Even between lesbian and gay couples one partner tends to be dominant and the other submissive and it tends to be the oposite of there "real life" actions. Ie "strong" women tend to be submissive in bed and vis versa

http://dclips.fundraw.com/zobo500dir/sexy_lady_jurgen_01.jpg

even dominance\submission doesnt nessarly mean that there is anything 'perverse" or vilont (in the criminal sence) involved. Look at the amount of women who have rape fantisies. Even between lesbian and gay couples one partner tends to be dominant and the other submissive and it tends to be the oposite of there "real life" actions. Ie "strong" women tend to be submissive in bed and vis versa

Maybe you misunderstood me. I agree. I don't think that dom/sub behavior is perverse in any way as long as all is consensual. I think that porn can be a great avenue to explore sexual fantasies with oneself and with a partner, lover, or friend etc.

thats fine:p
Ask bells, orleander, shorty, LA ect if they could never have sex again:p

NOOOOOO!!!!!! DON'T EVEN JOKE!!!


LOL


joking aside i personally cannot live a sexless life, women need sex just has much has men do, and in some casses more so!

but they...

And shorty already has said "No to Porn"
Orleander has me on ignore
Bells hates me because I speak the truth she does not wants to hear
LA...she is a mom, she has more important things in life, then talking to me

http://www.tnpsc.com/images2/SleepingAngel.jpg

i do talk to you draqon........

i say yes to porn personally, it is a great avenue for couples who are living in a sexless marrage/relationship,

its amazing actually how porn can bring two people together!

in my mind...Asguard, no, in my belief girls do not have as great of a need for sex as men do.

Just 'cos women don't want to do it with you, doesn't mean they don't want to do it with the rest of us.

Maybe if you stopped being such a loon you'd get more? Just an idea.

Just 'cos women don't want to do it with you, doesn't mean they don't want to do it with the rest of us.

Maybe if you stopped being such a loon you'd get more? Just an idea.

I dont need more sex in my life cause I aint got none and the only sex I aim for is my sole love.

draqon, i asked PB to respond to this thread for you:p

wear a cup:p

draqon, i asked PB to respond to this thread for you:p

wear a cup:p

...yeaaaaahhhhh...

right

I dont need more sex in my life cause I aint got none and the only sex I aim for is my sole love.

Then don't make speculations about the sexual urges of women, until you actually have some experience. Even then, it will a very small sample size, and of some freak that wants to get jiggy with a loon like you, so hardly representative of womankind. It's probably just best if you stay silent on the subject.

Then don't make speculations about the sexual urges of women, until you actually have some experience. Even then, it will a very small sample size, and of some freak that wants to get jiggy with a loon like you, so hardly representative of womankind. It's probably just best if you stay silent on the subject.

phlogistician I will not stay silent on the subject as the subject interests me everyday and I will surely speculate all I can about it since I have no experience in it at all. As for women, I find it that it is me who is not taking steps further for a more intimate relationship with them, I am too insecure currently. But at the same time I cannot just not think about it, because I got needs and so does everyone.

Yes to porn. But not child porn, apparently, it can create pedophiles as well as encourage them.

phlogistician As for women, I find it that it is me who is not taking steps further for a more intimate relationship with them.

Dude, women like coy. There must be something else putting them off. Like your personality.

Dude, women like coy. There must be something else putting them off. Like your personality.

Whats putting them off is me not showing any interest in them whatsoever. I feel like I am attracted to them sexually but I hate their personalities.

I mean, all my life I have been read and said of to be very courteous with girls, to not hurt them, not touch them, not violate their space, to not look at them too much...to the point that I felt like they were these "bombs" or something and that if I did touch a girl or spoke to one she would explode and I would be sued or something. Plus I got this fear that a girl can sue me whenever she decides to...I mean lets say I am interested in a girl and we talk and than I do a handshake and than she calls it sexual harassment and I will be sued...I got no rights at all...I cant prove the the court that I never did it. Of course nothing like this happened to me, but an idea that it can makes me fear girls alltogether that I avoid them.

Whats putting them off is me not showing any interest in them whatsoever.

Like I said, coy, or disinterest works. There must be something else putting them off.

I feel like I am attracted to them sexually but I hate their personalities.

Ah yes, maybe they can tell you just want to fuck them, but not get to know them. It's your personality that puts them off then.

Jesus Draq. I've known you long enough here on sci to know that you can attract as much girl action as you can handle.

You can be a cheeky little bastard ( that can get heaps of attention)
You are naturally offbeat and witty( that can get heaps of attaention)
You are not physically unattractive in any way (unless of course you smell like predigested babyfood but I don't even think that's a problem)

Man, you are so on the cusp of being a sexual dynamo, just slap yourself in the face a couple of times, give yourself an uppercut for good measure, grwol at yourself in the mirror, don't shave for a week, whatever it takes to grizzle yourself up a bit and go out and pull yourself some that gorgeous honey out there..( Asian girl, Black girl, White girl, doesn't matter, just bloody well engage them in some conversation and repartee and have a good time)

p.s, the pre-requisite is to GO OUT..leave the scimorons to fight out whose shoulder chip is the larger.

I enjoyed Grey Bloke's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNN-krUx2Eg) take on internet porn.

There are only two kinds of men; men who enjoy looking at pretty women, and men who enjoy looking at other men. Men are visually oriented, which becomes obvious with a glance at any magazine rack. I once read that over half of the readership of Playgirl magazine were gay men. Women are free to have a female counterpart to Playboy, but most don't seem to be interested.

This American Life had an episode dedicated to testosterone, http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=220 . The female to male transsexual's experience with it is very enlightening (and very much counter to social constructivist dogma).

so is there any actual physical harm done as a direct consequence of porn? The way I see it, it helps people out (men and women), many women don't mind doing it for the money, it probably does prevent potential rape cases.

I think the reason that Playgirl doesn't really sale with women is because (so I heard) women are not really all that aroused by a naked man unless they are involved in a sexual situation regardless of what the man is actually doing. As long as everyone is consenting I don't see anything wrong with porn and I don't think there is any link between porn and sexual crimes.

I think the reason that Playgirl doesn't really sale with women is because (so I heard) women are not really all that aroused by a naked man unless they are involved in a sexual situation regardless of what the man is actually doing. As long as everyone is consenting I don't see anything wrong with porn and I don't think there is any link between porn and sexual crimes.

Tell us, CutsieMarie, are you " aroused by a naked man"? Enquiring minds want to know....

in my mind...Asguard, no, in my belief girls do not have as great of a need for sex as men do. To girls sex is entertainment, not a need. And a way to get pregnant if they wish for it.

I wish.

I think if I went for more than 48 hours without, um, 'abusing myself', I'd end up in the insane asylum.

VI why do you wish you didnt want sex?

its natural and i find it sad that people call masterbation "self abuse". What a sad situation where enjoing onse self is concidered abuse

visceral, we don't want you in the insane asylum, perhaps you should up the frequency.

Seriously, sex is a natural and necessary part of life. Why do people, especially Americans, have such an issue with this? I mean, puritanical, maybe, but why instill such a mindset on our children?

I am new to SciForums, but this topic (sex, and all its permutations) seems to just beg the extremists here to gather armes. Is it that big a deal? Are none of you getting any?

VI why do you wish you didnt want sex?

its natural and i find it sad that people call masterbation "self abuse". What a sad situation where enjoing onse self is concidered abuse

I dont call masterbation "self abuse", more of a tedious need.

As for sex...I wish...I wish...ehhh whatever, I just want to find my true love for whole life to cherish.

As for sex...I wish...I wish...ehhh whatever, I just want to find my true love for whole life to cherish.

You will, draq, you will. Patience...

Tell us, CutsieMarie, are you " aroused by a naked man"? Enquiring minds want to know....

lol. Well it depends what he is doing and how physically appealing I find him to be. The naked guys that I used to look at when I worked at the clinic... not so much. :p

cutsie is that because of there look though or because of clinical desensisation?

Actually clincal desesitsation is a good thing to be honest, it would be REALLY embarisioning to get aroused because we had to cut a young girls shirt off to shock her:p

cutsie is that because of there look though or because of clinical desensisation?

Actually clincal desesitsation is a good thing to be honest, it would be REALLY embarisioning to get aroused because we had to cut a young girls shirt off to shock her:p

Both. Even though I may not be sexually aroused by women I find the female form much more beautiful.

I'm a hypocrite when it comes to porn. I like watching it, but I would throw a holy hissy fit if either of my children wanted to do it.

i love how you compleatly ignore what females need. I guess in your mind girls dont like sex? dont need sex?
I think you're being a little hard on the Beaver. Porn is mostly made for men. His statement wasn't that outrageous at all. Remember my more porn=less rape thread?
Some members of this forum have an extreme aversion to porn. Feminists have suggested that porn causes women to be objectified and therefore increases sex crimes. A recent study shows just the opposite:
First, porn. What happens when more people view more of it? The rise of the Internet offers a gigantic natural experiment. Better yet, because Internet usage caught on at different times in different states, it offers 50 natural experiments.

The bottom line on these experiments is, "More Net access, less rape." A 10 percent increase in Net access yields about a 7.3 percent decrease in reported rapes. States that adopted the Internet quickly saw the biggest declines. And, according to Clemson professor Todd Kendall, the effects remain even after you control for all of the obvious confounding variables, such as alcohol consumption, police presence, poverty and unemployment rates, population density, and so forth.
That's a pretty powerful effect. Increase internet access 10% for a 7% drop in rape. Almost one to one. But, you might say, increased internet use doesn't necesarily mean increased use of porn! Maybe they're just surfing the web instead of out commiting crimes. Well, what about this:
OK, so we can at least tentatively conclude that Net access reduces rape. But that's a far cry from proving that porn access reduces rape. Maybe rape is down because the rapists are all indoors reading Slate or vandalizing Wikipedia. But professor Kendall points out that there is no similar effect of Internet access on homicide. It's hard to see how Wikipedia can deter rape without deterring other violent crimes at the same time. On the other hand, it's easy to imagine how porn might serve as a substitute for rape.
http://slate.com/id/2152487/
Another thing about this study is that it belies the old myth about rape not being about sex. If rape isn't about sex, why should giving someone another outlet for their sexual urges decrease rape?
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=74132&highlight=porn+rape

umm mad im sorry but i honestly have no idea what your talking about:( im involved in alot of threads at the moment

I looked through the thread and cant find ANY bever

umm mad im sorry but i honestly have no idea what your talking about:( im involved in alot of threads at the moment

I looked through the thread and cant find ANY beaver
Sorry for the confusion. Just a catch phase from that old TV show
http://www.tvcrazy.net/images/beaver.jpg
Leave it to Beaver. I was actually refering to Dragon. You were being a bit hard on Dragon.

oh draqon. No i dont think i was being to harsh at all. As i said ask any of the women around here which of us is closer to being right. LA, and the origional thread starter have both said i was right for starters:p

I think you're being a little hard on the Beaver. Porn is mostly made for men. His statement wasn't that outrageous at all. Remember my more porn=less rape thread?

In regards to your previous thread about Net and rape...all the study showed was a 10% increase in Net access. A 7% decrease in REPORTED rapes does not equal a 7% decrease in ACTUAL rapes. Just because something isn't reported doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This study proves nothing. Unless they can prove the amount of actual rapes is decreased by Internet access (and then prove that it was further decreased by viewing of Porn via the Internet), I don't see how it is very relevant. Many studies have been done on whether porn creates sexual violence, just as studies have been done on whether increased video game violence increases violence in real life in children. Many people have different theories, but they are all conflicting. The point is, what makes one person think something because of what they saw and what makes the other person ACT on something they saw. There is a difference. My question is, whether porn negatively/positively influences men/women and if so, how? Do you actually think porn decreases rape?

also it doesnt prove in any way that rape is about sex not power. Lets say for aguments sake that your right and there was a 7% drop in rapes with a 10% increase (for argument sake) in porn.

Well porn is a huge catigory as is the reasons why people watch it. It could be a 10% increase in people watching kenderdy style girl on guy porn (which would suggest that your right) or it could be a 10% increase in guys who hate women and want to see them degraded watching full on female denigration (which would sugest that the sexual componant is secondry to the power componant). The only way to be sure would be to do a full randomised double blind trial and thats just not possable

also it doesnt prove in any way that rape is about sex not power. Lets say for aguments sake that your right and there was a 7% drop in rapes with a 10% increase (for argument sake) in porn.

Well porn is a huge catigory as is the reasons why people watch it. It could be a 10% increase in people watching kenderdy style girl on guy porn (which would suggest that your right) or it could be a 10% increase in guys who hate women and want to see them degraded watching full on female denigration (which would sugest that the sexual componant is secondry to the power componant). The only way to be sure would be to do a full randomised double blind trial and thats just not possable

I agree. If they could PROVE rape was decreased by Internet via porn viewing of whatever specified kind, why wouldn't they pimp it to all the pedophiles and rapists in prison and those on parole? Does viewing child pornography decrease child molestation? Many studies have said no. If porn was proven to help in the area of rape and molestation, you think it would have been noted and then put to use.

In regards to your previous thread about Net and rape...all the study showed was a 10% increase in Net access. A 7% decrease in REPORTED rapes does not equal a 7% decrease in ACTUAL rapes. Just because something isn't reported doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This study proves nothing. Unless they can prove the amount of actual rapes is decreased by Internet access (and then prove that it was further decreased by viewing of Porn via the Internet), I don't see how it is very relevant.Do you have any reason whatsoever to predict that there would be a disparity in the effect internet access has on reported/unreported rape? Can you even come up with a theory as to why internet access would decrease reported rapes and not all rapes?

I can provide a theory as to why the effect of internet access would, in fact, be greatest on unreported rapes (which would mean that the effect of internet access is being understated in the study).

For instance, I would expect that acquaintance rapes/date rapes are the most likely to not be reported. These are the kinds of rapes most likely to be purely about sex. So the availability of another outlet for these urges should decrease these rapes the most.

That's just a theory, but it makes sence. Can you come up with any plausible reason that the population of unreported rapes would be affected in a way that would actually magnify this apparent effect? Or make it appear that there is a correlation when there isn't one?
Many studies have been done on whether porn creates sexual violence, just as studies have been done on whether increased video game violence increases violence in real life in children. Many people have different theories, but they are all conflicting.The problem with most of those studies (re: Porn) is that they have some guy watching porn, getting all worked up, and not jacking off. Then they have him fill out a survey about his attitudes towards women. Of course a guy with blue balls will have negative attitudes towards women!

On the other hand, when a guy watches porn @ home, he's jacking off. When it's done, he's relieved.

The attitudes of a guy who just watched porn but didn't get to masterbate (as in most of these studies) is going to be quite different than when the guy watched porn in private.

I know from personal experience that a porno can seem incredibly fascinating before you cum, and seems idiotic a minute later.
My question is, whether porn negatively/positively influences men/women and if so, how?The potential negative influence would be paying too much attention to porno and not enough to your real life partner. Also, it might decrease the motivation of those without a mate to go out and find one.Do you actually think porn decreases rape?Most definitely. Sex, in men @ least, is a hunger that grows the longer we've been denied. Take away the relief valve of porno, and those urges may well express themselves in less savory ways.

but they...

And shorty already has said "No to Porn"
Orleander has me on ignore
Bells hates me because I speak the truth she does not wants to hear
LA...she is a mom, she has more important things in life, then talking to me

http://www.tnpsc.com/images2/SleepingAngel.jpg

What makes you think I hate you? I'd have to actually have liked you first to then hate you. No I don't hate you. I just think you're a bit of a loon who needs to get out more.

And yes, women enjoy, like, love, need and desire sex, as much as men do.

But it's ok if you want to think women don't like sex. Might make it easier for you seeing you're not getting any.:D

now THAT was harsh bells:p

What makes you think I hate you? I'd have to actually have liked you first to then hate you.
I've never bought into that indifference is the opposite of love business. I hate Osama bin Ladin, and I never loved him. I hate beets, yet I never love them.

Nope, the opposite of love is hate and you don't need to have loved someone to hate them.

What makes you think I hate you? I'd have to actually have liked you first to then hate you. No I don't hate you. I just think you're a bit of a loon who needs to get out more.

And yes, women enjoy, like, love, need and desire sex, as much as men do.

But it's ok if you want to think women don't like sex. Might make it easier for you seeing you're not getting any.:D

you just confirmed my statement, Bells. I do however am thanksful to you for changing your avatar to a more moral one.

Porn should be used sparingly - lest you diminish your sensitivity and seek more devious stimulation.

Porn should be used sparingly - lest you diminish your sensitivity and seek more devious stimulation.

your right it shold, but porn can also be used has a tool for a better sex life!! and it should not be flamed for being bad and wrong, how many people have sex, why is it wrong to record it? why is it wrong to make films and sell them!!

would you be ok with your daughter becoming a porn star?

would you be ok with your daughter becoming a porn star?

we've already covered this in anouther thread, if she was happy, safe and sure thats what she wanted to do then yes it would be ok with me, if i said "NO YOU CANNOT DO THAT" the chances are she would do it anyway!

that makes me sad.

that makes me sad.

what can you do, you have kids, if you tell your kids no enough times they will go and do it anyway!!

but at the end of the day it is up to the kids and not us, i wouldnt be happy about it, but its better than loosing her to some scum bag!!

what can you do, you have kids, if you tell your kids no enough times they will go and do it anyway!!

but at the end of the day it is up to the kids and not us, i wouldnt be happy about it, but its better than loosing her to some scum bag!!

I tell my kids no all the time. Every time we walk past the belly-button piercer in the mall, I turn to my daughter, stop, point, and say "NO!". Over and over they hear NO!
I am not about to say "go ahead and drink, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and do drugs, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and...."
When it comes to my kids, I am the law.

I tell my kids no all the time. Every time we walk past the belly-button piercer in the mall, I turn to my daughter, stop, point, and say "NO!". Over and over they hear NO!
I am not about to say "go ahead and drink, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and do drugs, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and...."
When it comes to my kids, I am the law.

no your right, piercings are for when they are old enough, and drinking is also for when they are old enough, has is sex, but somtimes its best to let your kids, when they are adults go of and expierence new things

Asguard, I was being tongue in cheek when I called it self abuse. I don't think it's wrong at all. If there were some good slang words I'd call it something else.

I tell my kids no all the time. Every time we walk past the belly-button piercer in the mall, I turn to my daughter, stop, point, and say "NO!". Over and over they hear NO!
I am not about to say "go ahead and drink, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and do drugs, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and...."
When it comes to my kids, I am the law.

Agree with the navel piercing thing! I got that done when I was 17, I thought I had finished growing, but I grew some more and it migrated upwards. It's more of a surface piercing now.

I think porn, is ok.

If we didn't have it, i speculate that rape would be higher.

But i feel there is also going to be greater demands for the general public for porn, because in the end of the day, guys and girls, have you ever found yourself getting bored of the same porn, to the point it does not satisfy completely your needs? The outcome will be that we find ourselves buying even more porn, to satisfy out kinky hidden desires.

I tell my kids no all the time. Every time we walk past the belly-button piercer in the mall, I turn to my daughter, stop, point, and say "NO!". Over and over they hear NO!
I am not about to say "go ahead and drink, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and do drugs, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and...."
When it comes to my kids, I am the law.

oh yeah and for the record i had my first piercing done when i was 10, my nose, then my ears at 11

You pierced your nose before your ears?

Anyways, there are things I still don't do for fear of my Mom finding out. I'm more afraid of her than I am of prison. lol

I think most peopel have filmed themselves having sex. It aint pretty. It looks nothing like real porn.

orleander in order to be a porn star in 90% of countries you have to be over 18. Which means they are legally adults and you as there parent lose all legal control. You can try to talk them out of it but they can also tell you to stick your head up your ass, thats just life. after 18 a parent is there as an advisor in whatever roll the "children" chose rather than as an inforcer. This lessens even further once they move out and start there own lives (and im dam sure a porn star would have enough money to buy a house)

orleander in order to be a porn star in 90% of countries you have to be over 18. Which means they are legally adults and you as there parent lose all legal control. You can try to talk them out of it but they can also tell you to stick your head up your ass, thats just life. after 18 a parent is there as an advisor in whatever roll the "children" chose rather than as an inforcer. This lessens even further once they move out and start there own lives (and im dam sure a porn star would have enough money to buy a house)

OMG Really?! :eek: They can't be a minor while making porn? WHEW! I was sure worried about my 10 yr old daughter. My kid is an adult at 18 and I have no legal recourse? None? Can I smack the crap outta her when she tells me to stick it up my ass? Or is 18 the cut off for that? I can't drag her out of that gang bang? Damn. Well, maybe I should start being an advisor on her career and maybe she will buy me a house then.
Thanks for the info. I always know I can go to you for great parenting advise. :thumbsup:

OMG Really?! :eek: They can't be a minor while making porn? WHEW! I was sure worried about my 10 yr old daughter. My kid is an adult at 18 and I have no legal recourse? None? Can I smack the crap outta her when she tells me to stick it up my ass? Or is 18 the cut off for that? I can't drag her out of that gang bang? Damn. Well, maybe I should start being an advisor on her career and maybe she will buy me a house then.
Thanks for the info. I always know I can go to you for great parenting advise. :thumbsup:

I was rerfering to this:

I tell my kids no all the time. Every time we walk past the belly-button piercer in the mall, I turn to my daughter, stop, point, and say "NO!". Over and over they hear NO!
I am not about to say "go ahead and drink, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and do drugs, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and...."
When it comes to my kids, I am the law.


Thats great right up to the point where they turn 18 and can do whatever they want even if its just to spite you:p

....Thats great right up to the point where they turn 18 and can do whatever they want even if its just to spite you:p

LOL, You're killing me!!! :xctd: You actually think my kids can do whatever they want?! LOL! I suppose legally, in a perfect world, yes, they can. Your mother and I are obviously worlds apart. Never at any time have I raised my kids to think they can do whatever they damn well want.

actually i live a state away from my parents (not because i dislike them but because my partner lived over here and i had to make a choice as to who to live with)

In the end its MY decision wether i get a tat, get peirced or do porn (or even prositute myself) not theres.

You pierced your nose before your ears?

Anyways, there are things I still don't do for fear of my Mom finding out. I'm more afraid of her than I am of prison. lol

yes i did!

and i owe my mum nothing so she hasnt got a say in what i do!! unfortunatly i would like to think that my kids would have more going for them than making porn films!

but if they want to do it, when they are adults then all i can do is stand by them and make sure they are safe and happy

we've already covered this in anouther thread, if she was happy, safe and sure thats what she wanted to do then yes it would be ok with me

..and after few years in 'porn heaven' and got 'spent' and when none is interested to watch her or her movies, she will see you as the 'madame' of a whorehouse not a mom..

I tell my kids no all the time. Every time we walk past the belly-button piercer in the mall, I turn to my daughter, stop, point, and say "NO!". Over and over they hear NO!
I am not about to say "go ahead and drink, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and do drugs, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and...."
When it comes to my kids, I am the law.

I think what Lucifer means is that once your offspring are of legal age, you have no real veto power. Sure, you can give them nasty looks and do a lot of posturing, but at the end of the day you have no actual legal power over them. Hard life, huh?

..and after few years in 'porn heaven' and got 'spent' and when none is interested to watch her or her movies, she will see you as the 'madame' of a whorehouse not a mom..

and everneo, thats not a bad job either!!

i dont see why people are kicking me for saying this, but when she is 18 i will have no say in what she does/says/wear/ who she has sex with!

and everneo, thats not a bad job either!!

i dont see why people are kicking me for saying this, but when she is 18 i will have no say in what she does/says/wear/ who she has sex with!

What? Of course a parent has a say! I don't quit being a parent just because they had a birthday. :bugeye:
My kids sleep with a married person, they are gonna hear about it. They stay in a relationship with an abusive person, I'm gonna say something. They sleep with 20+ a month, they are gonna hear about it.
I don't understand the whole "well, they are 18, so what can I do?" attitude. Parents can do a lot.

What? Of course a parent has a say! I don't quit being a parent just because they had a birthday. :bugeye:
My kids sleep with a married person, they are gonna hear about it. They stay in a relationship with an abusive person, I'm gonna say something. They sleep with 20+ a month, they are gonna hear about it.
I don't understand the whole "well, they are 18, so what can I do?" attitude. Parents can do a lot.

yeah sure we have a say, but at th end of the day, its up to them!!

I think what Lucifer means is that once your offspring are of legal age, you have no real veto power. Sure, you can give them nasty looks and do a lot of posturing, but at the end of the day you have no actual legal power over them. Hard life, huh?

at last someone gets my point

yea they have a say to:p
wether to actually give you there phone number or not:p

LA i was agreeing with you:(

and everneo, thats not a bad job either!!

i dont see why people are kicking me for saying this, but when she is 18 i will have no say in what she does/says/wear/ who she has sex with!

yeah sure we have a say, but at th end of the day, its up to them!!

???? So do you have a say or not? :shrug:
Maybe this is why I'm not understanding your point.

What? Of course a parent has a say! I don't quit being a parent just because they had a birthday. :bugeye:
My kids sleep with a married person, they are gonna hear about it. They stay in a relationship with an abusive person, I'm gonna say something. They sleep with 20+ a month, they are gonna hear about it.
I don't understand the whole "well, they are 18, so what can I do?" attitude. Parents can do a lot.

You're welcome to express your opinion regarding your grown offsprings behaviour. No doubt such a thing is important to you, since you're such a worthlessly opinionated individual.

But at the end of the day, once your child is of legal age, the ultimate decision rests in their hands. You can try to influence them by bitching, but if you try to dominate them too much, they might just cut contact. You should know this, you aren't exactly on good terms with your mother (from what I gather). Do you attempt to keep in touch with her? Spend lots of quality time together? Or do you stay as far away as possible, hoping that controlling old woman doesn't mess with you?

I mean, guys with homophobic parents have grown up to ream other guys in the ass, despite the fact that their parents probably disowned them. You think that once your daughter is adult, you can stop her from having a belly piercing? Dream on. Your iron grip will slip, and that's excellent. Part of being an adult is making your own stupid decisions, and taking the consequences. What a miserable life we would all lead if mummy and daddy dictated our every move until death.

???? So do you have a say or not? :shrug:
Maybe this is why I'm not understanding your point.

She's saying that a parent is welcome to input (aka. the right to express your opinion) on their grown child's decision, but at the end of the day the child will do whatever the fuck they want. Why is that concept so hard for you to grasp? :bugeye:

LA i was agreeing with you:(

yes i know, sorry asgaurd,

???? So do you have a say or not? :shrug:
Maybe this is why I'm not understanding your point.

wedo can have a say in what they do, but if they are absolutly sure that porn is where they want to go, then at the end of the day we can't do anything about it, i am sure has hell not going to disown my child because of what job they do

but they...

And shorty already has said "No to Porn"
Orleander has me on ignore
Bells hates me because I speak the truth she does not wants to hear
LA...she is a mom, she has more important things in life, then talking to me



That's right and I still say No to porn.

Yeah pretty much how I see it.

But don't mind me, I am just saying that because I never had a girlfriend, never kissed a girl, never had sex...and soon I will be 22. So porn or no porn, whatever. Softcore works for me. I guess women do find porn as entertaining sexually but it is not a need for them, like for men.

dude get a hooker. you need the incentive to chase some tail, you need to know how fun sex is.

This thread sucks without pics

I tell my kids no all the time. Every time we walk past the belly-button piercer in the mall, I turn to my daughter, stop, point, and say "NO!". Over and over they hear NO!
I am not about to say "go ahead and drink, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and do drugs, you're gonna do it anyways. Go ahead and...."
When it comes to my kids, I am the law.

you're just showing them the forbidden fruit. i would have gotten a tattoo but my parents were cunning, when i brought it up as a young teen they said they wouldn't care, but they thought i'd regret it later. there was nothing for me to rebel against. of my friends with controlling parents, one rebels just to spite them, and the other is barely her own person, her parents run her whole life.

"when it comes to my kids, i am the law" - for now, maybe. keep dreaming, maybe.

you're just showing them the forbidden fruit. i would have gotten a tattoo but my parents were cunning, when i brought it up as a young teen they said they wouldn't care, but they thought i'd regret it later. there was nothing for me to rebel against. of my friends with controlling parents, one rebels just to spite them, and the other is barely her own person, her parents run her whole life.

"when it comes to my kids, i am the law" - for now, maybe. keep dreaming, maybe.

I know my kids will have a life of their own and make their own choices. That wasn't what I was disagreeing about. I was disagreeing with the part that as soon as they are 18, the parent has no say.

"well, if they want to work in a whore house, what can I do?" :shrug: NO! Have you read about the parents that manage their daughters porn career? How supportive of her daddy to make sure he is on every set watching his baby girl get gang banged. He just wants to make sure she's safe.

And how I dealt with my kids and tattoos, I explained how many needles are in a tat gun and how many times they will get stabbed. :D

Have you read about the parents that manage their daughters porn career? How supportive of her daddy to make sure he is on every set watching his baby girl get gang banged. He just wants to make sure she's safe.

Very concerned pimp... err.. Dad.

I was disagreeing with the part that as soon as they are 18, the parent has no say.


well at what point does someone become their own person? i like the idea that once they're mature enough you let them, but some parents won't recognise maturity, will be over-protective etc. i think once they're 18, as a parent you should help them by giving your honest opinions rather than controlling or coercing.

the parent maintains a voice, rather than final say.

in my mind...Asguard, no, in my belief girls do not have as great of a need for sex as men do. To girls sex is entertainment, not a need. And a way to get pregnant if they wish for it.

OH YES WE DO!!!

Women need sex just has much has men do, don't you think women get sexually frustrated aswell???

And how I dealt with my kids and tattoos, I explained how many needles are in a tat gun and how many times they will get stabbed. :D

What's wrong with tattoos when they're old enough?

OH YES WE DO!!!

Women need sex just has much has men do, don't you think women get sexually frustrated aswell???

Seconded.

I'm sick of hearing how women don't need sex.

i agree, i would LOVE for draqon to come here and tell PB that she shouldnt bother me cause we dont have sex much, that she should be thankful for that because "women dont need sex":p

I wonder if he would leave with his head still atached:p

i agree, i would LOVE for draqon to come here and tell PB that she shouldnt bother me cause we dont have sex much, that she should be thankful for that because "women dont need sex":p

I wonder if he would leave with his head still atached:p

Its so true. all a woman needs is a good book and a vibrator and to loudly proclaim all men think with their dicks. Ask my wife!!!!:)

Seconded.

I'm sick of hearing how women don't need sex.

to draqon i would have to to ask, if women dont need sex then why can we buy dildos, vibrators, strap ons, walk about vibrators, remote control vibrators, love eggs?

perhaps he thinks that cause he hasnt had sex yet because he cant find a girl who wll have sex with him?

LA a better question would be if women dont need sex why are there lesbians?:p

BTW LA, you ever seen a dolphin?:p
I bought one for PB a while ago, unfortunatly she broke it:p

This thread sucks without pics

That can be fixed !

http://www.humoronline.com/weird-news-pictures/fat-woman-sex.jpg

Want to see the rest tomorrow ?

Asguard...

I can not ask anyone.

I am alone.

The internet is the only means of communications I have.

I don't talk with no one but here.

So the world I discuss here, the need for sex of others, is only that what I learn from you and the internet.

What the hell?, is that some form of sarcasm or are you locked in some sort of basement dungeon.......?


peace.

EmptyForceOfChi

i sometimes think its the black dog keeping him locked up

DRAGON:

"The internet is the only means of communications I have..."


I imagine you sit on a toilet with a nutrient I.V. running into your arm and eyelids held open with special devices or merely cut off? Good times, I've wanted that privaledge for a long time now. :-P

LA a better question would be if women dont need sex why are there lesbians?:p

BTW LA, you ever seen a dolphin?:p
I bought one for PB a while ago, unfortunatly she broke it:p

i have dolphin statues in my house my daughter collects them personally i prefer dragons

umm

i was talking about dolphin vibrators:p

They are popular because the shape is umm enjoyable?:p

What exactly are dolphin vibrators?!

I'm conflicted on the matter. I'll explain.

Most people are experienced to the point that they've seen pornography and have probably masturbated before they ever have sex (or engage in sexual contact) with someone. There's fascination & excitement, but no 'wonder'. In most cases they're not seeing something for the first time, and they generally know what they're getting themselves into. The blissful ignorance going into sex is something that is forever lost to us -- we can no longer be pioneers of our own bodies, as the information is out there and readily accessible. I know what I mean.

Then there are the social consequences.. the obsession with size, vocal (usually faked) orgasms, a standard of behavior, etc. When a guy or gal whose only experience in the area comes from porn tries to envision sex, it's inherently (and probably permanently) influenced by the various actors & actresses they've seen banging away at each other. Girls who see women in both pornography & mainstream Hollywood experiencing fantastic orgasms are naturally let down due to the inexperience of their partners.

The preoccupation of society with sexual performance mirrors that of our desire for perfect sex symbols (Actors/Actresses, Supermodels, etc), which is directly contradicted by the rising numbers of unhealthy & obese people in the world. Both sexes generally fail to live up to the expectations of the other, and those who succeed often die young because of the health hazards involved -- anorexia, HIV/AIDS..

Oh. Wow. I kinda got off on a tangent there.. I'll stop.

Simply put, the sexual freedom that porn has given us has come at the cost of increased sexual/societal pressure.

VI, they are shaped like a dolphin both because of the natural shape of the animal and because dolphins are cute

there are 2 types that i have found, one looks like the head of a bottle nose and sits on the end of your finger (its just a vibrator) then there is the vibrator combined with a dildo

I'm conflicted on the matter. I'll explain.

Most people are experienced to the point that they've seen pornography and have probably masturbated before they ever have sex (or engage in sexual contact) with someone. There's fascination & excitement, but no 'wonder'. In most cases they're not seeing something for the first time, and they generally know what they're getting themselves into. The blissful ignorance going into sex is something that is forever lost to us -- we can no longer be pioneers of our own bodies, as the information is out there and readily accessible. I know what I mean.

Then there are the social consequences.. the obsession with size, vocal (usually faked) orgasms, a standard of behavior, etc. When a guy or gal whose only experience in the area comes from porn tries to envision sex, it's inherently (and probably permanently) influenced by the various actors & actresses they've seen banging away at each other. Girls who see women in both pornography & mainstream Hollywood experiencing fantastic orgasms are naturally let down due to the inexperience of their partners.

The preoccupation of society with sexual performance mirrors that of our desire for perfect sex symbols (Actors/Actresses, Supermodels, etc), which is directly contradicted by the rising numbers of unhealthy & obese people in the world. Both sexes generally fail to live up to the expectations of the other, and those who succeed often die young because of the health hazards involved -- anorexia, HIV/AIDS..

Oh. Wow. I kinda got off on a tangent there.. I'll stop.

Simply put, the sexual freedom that porn has given us has come at the cost of increased sexual/societal pressure.

Ya, but that is a problem with people, not porn.

I can enjoy porn, but I don't feel the need to put pressure on anyone else because of it.

actually i suggest you ask any women who has already had sex if they could chose to give it up for good (no sex, no masterbation ect). Think you might be surpised by the answer you get (asuming they dont slap you)

of course we need sex... and saying that men need it more is just a common misconception.. maybe im wrong and men need it more.. well in that case i ust be the exception to the rule then.. i crave sex everyday.. but unlike a man i can channel those feelings into something else.. it doesnt mean i need it or want it less. it just means that i can use those feelings to better myself in other aspects of my life..

I used to want sex A LOT less than my husband. But it was because the fear of getting pregnant was always at the back of my mind. He got snipped and our sex life ramped up big time.

but unlike a man i can channel those feelings into something else..
Men can't? :confused:

orleander out of intrest were you using condoms, the pill, some other form of BC or nothing at all?

the reason i ask is that the pill can lessen a womens sex drive. pb recently changed her pill from levelen ed to diann 35 in an effort to help her pollycystic overian syndrome (her endrocronlogist recomended this pill for her). her sex drive went from massive (WAY above my own) to zero in a week

yep, the pill. I know I had a voracious sexual appetite while pregnant. I figured it was because I knew I wasn't gonna get pregnant (I already was). It could have been because I wasn't on the pill anymore. Hmmmm, wonder why my doctor didn't tell me that.

Men can't? :confused:

ok.. wrong choice of words.. men can.. i should have said.. men who end up raping women.. and men who ruin relationships by wanting nothing as much as sex. forgive my choice of words.:o

i love how you compleatly ignore what females need. I guess in your mind girls dont like sex? dont need sex?

you should join the medievil catholic church
Because we're talking about pornography. Go to an adult bookstore. How many women do you see there? Compare the circulation of porno mags for men to porno mags for women. Compare the number of strip clubs with female performers to those with male performers. My city alone has like 15 strip clubs featuring female dancers and zero strip clubs featuring males!

Or how about this survey of what to do with that extra hour from day light savings time:
A new survey says women would prefer sleep while men would prefer sex with that extra hour we get by setting back the clock this weekend. But it reinforces gender stereotypes and "doesn't help couples," says a Vancouver sex therapist.

The survey, conducted by an advocacy group for mattress manufacturers, found that 55 per cent of women would prefer to get more sleep with that extra hour compared to only 31 per cent of men.

It also found that nearly 57 per cent of men would prefer to be having sex in that extra hour compared to only 32 per cent of women. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081029/sex_survey_081029/20081029?hub=TopStories
Men want sex more than women. That is an indisputable fact. Hell, why do you think AIDS spread so quickly among male homosexuals versus heterosexuals? Because homosexuals have no woman in the equation to say no. If women wanted sex as much as men, there'd be no need for porno because we'd all be fucking all the time.

MAW, don't you think that's more of a social construct than a biological one?

Seriously, we need to form a Sciforums Commission, because--


Men want sex more than women. That is an indisputable fact. Hell, why do you think AIDS spread so quickly among male homosexuals versus heterosexuals? Because homosexuals have no woman in the equation to say no. If women wanted sex as much as men, there'd be no need for porno because we'd all be fucking all the time.

--that one ought to win a prize.

Brilliant. Truly, amazingly, unspeakably brilliant.

Lindy West, film editor for The Stranger, finally attended her first HUMP!, which is a local amateur film festival sponsored by the newspaper. Her review of last year's HUMP! was called, "Twenty-One Things I Learned at My First HUMP! Ever (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=703394)"

It was, on the whole, a very instructive evening. Here is what I learned:

1. A lot about the human butthole ....

.... 10. About the human butthole again—the human butthole is STURDY ....

.... 21. You, Seattle, are super hot. And funny. And fucked-up, in all the good ways. You live in a country where, unfortunately, a sizable portion of the population thinks they have the right to directly interfere with your sex life. But fuck 'em. You also live in a city where hundreds and hundreds of supportive, sexy people can get together and watch each other have sex and laugh and cry and maybe vomit and then laugh again. So fuck the religious right, right in its collective butthole. (Which, as I mentioned, is extremely sturdy and pliable.) And make sure to vote.

It ain't as sturdy as what Lindy's got. But, yes, recta are amazing things, so it makes for a fun joke.
____________________

Notes:

West, Lindy. "Twenty-One Things I Learned at My First HUMP! Ever". The Stranger. October 21, 2008. TheStranger.com. Accessed May 1, 2009. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=703394

Simply based on how many forum members that claim to be women that have contributed to this thread pornography is a very important issue for women, oh they need a squeeze now and then, that is all.

I might have posted in this thread already but I can't remember, so I'll just reiterate for anyone else who wants to jump into the fray:

I'm in favour of pornography unless it involves something degrading, or anything other than sex between consenting adults.

I might have posted in this thread already but I can't remember, so I'll just reiterate for anyone else who wants to jump into the fray:

I'm in favour of pornography unless it involves something degrading, or anything other than sex between consenting adults.

How about simulated pornography, prono generated by computers, or if you want to get simple enough, cartoon porn?

How about simulated pornography, prono generated by computers, or if you want to get simple enough, cartoon porn?

hentai rules. or are u talking about the 3D thing?

How about simulated pornography, prono generated by computers, or if you want to get simple enough, cartoon porn?

why not?

Ok, how do you feel morally about the possibility that some day robotics will be advanced enough to make lovebots, designer gigolos and hos made to represent what ever race, age, gender the customer wants?

hentai rules. or are u talking about the 3D thing?

Both.

why not?

Are you sure, cuz I say if its simulated porn of say a child, or of rape, etc

Are you sure, cuz I say if its simulated porn of say a child, or of rape, etc

I said, I'm in favour of pornography unless it involves something degrading, or anything other than sex between consenting adults.

I said, I'm in favour of pornography unless it involves something degrading, or anything other than sex between consenting adults.

Yes, but some definitions of pornography do not include pornographic images that are artificial, but require a real human model.

mad that was the stupidist comment i have ever herd. i could just as easerly say "women want sex more because there aee 1000 times more sex toys dildos, vibrators ect sold in sex shops than there are blow up dolls or because there is 1000 times more lingure for women compared to men"

as for AIDS please telll me you arnt that stupid. the virus is more easerly transmited anally than vaginally and homosexuals have lower condom use than hedrosexuals because there is no pregnancy risk

mad that was the stupidist comment i have ever herd. ...

:confused: stupider than this one??
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2237270&postcount=15

i just say yes to porn if its hot.. by hot i dont mean rape or animals or kids.. or old people.. pretty much porn between to adults..(consenting)

Why is Mad so determined that women don't like sex much, no matter what any of the female posters in here say?

I wish I had as low a sex drive as Mad insists women must have. Especially as I have that tendency to hyperfocus on something for hours at a time....now when you translate that to thinking about sex....You don't want me to finish this sentence.

Because MAW's own wife doesn't want to nail him.

Why is Mad so determined that women don't like sex much, no matter what any of the female posters in here say?

I wish I had as low a sex drive as Mad insists women must have. Especially as I have that tendency to hyperfocus on something for hours at a time....now when you translate that to thinking about sex....You don't want me to finish this sentence.

Because us women obviously dont understand such things as this.. im so glad that have people to tell us that we dont need as much sex. i dont know what i was thinking.. to think that it is possible that women need sex as much as men..

Because we're talking about pornography. Go to an adult bookstore. How many women do you see there? Compare the circulation of porno mags for men to porno mags for women. Compare the number of strip clubs with female performers to those with male performers. My city alone has like 15 strip clubs featuring female dancers and zero strip clubs featuring males!

Well why dont you go to grocery store.. you see a majority of women there... does that mean that men are less inclined to eat?.. no.. maybe women have this sense of embarrassment at the fact that we crave sex because people tell us that we dont or shouldnt..

please do in graphic detail:p

but as to your question i would GUESS that its social conditioning. sort of like a sort of male shame that even though the girl has just stripped herself and you,npushed you down and jumped on you that she doesnt REALLY want itl she is just doing it to please you. why do you think so many men will ridicule a male victom of rape or even pretend its impossable.

of corse it could be the oposite, a sort of male pride that you can dominate the women into submitting to something she doesnt wantbto do.

either way its buried deep in the psychie so i doubt you will see him (or anyone else admit it) but look at the way tiassa talks about hedrosexual sex as a good example. it compleatly defies biology (ie the g spot and clit) and even logic but *shrug* hundreds of years of the catholic church raming the supression of female sexuality down sociaties throat takes a long time to get rid of

Because MAW's own wife doesn't want to nail him.


Yep, he says it because of the women he know's. And there is a supposed female here who is opposed to porn. He is also probably going off that as well.

Well why dont you go to grocery store.. you see a majority of women there... does that mean that men are less inclined to eat?.. no.. maybe women have this sense of embarrassment at the fact that we crave sex because people tell us that we dont or shouldnt..

we are just choosier about it. We can afford to be since men are so freakin easy. We don't go around begging for sex because we don't need to.

seems logical.

yeah, you would think teh men here would listen but they just say "no, you don't like sex. I get that told over and over" No dude, we like sex, we just like it with you.

in my mind...Asguard, no, in my belief girls do not have as great of a need for sex as men do. To girls sex is entertainment, not a need. And a way to get pregnant if they wish for it.

that makes no sense dragon.. i have sex because i crave it.. not because i crave being an 18 year old with a baby,

Why is Mad so determined that women don't like sex much, no matter what any of the female posters in here say?

I wish I had as low a sex drive as Mad insists women must have. Especially as I have that tendency to hyperfocus on something for hours at a time....now when you translate that to thinking about sex....You don't want me to finish this sentence.
Seriously, we need to form a Sciforums Commission, because--
--that one ought to win a prize.
Brilliant. Truly, amazingly, unspeakably brilliant.

mad that was the stupidist comment i have ever herd.
Because MAW's own wife doesn't want to nail him.
Because us women obviously dont understand such things as this.. im so glad that have people to tell us that we dont need as much sex. i dont know what i was thinking.. to think that it is possible that women need sex as much as men..
Yep, he says it because of the women he know's. And there is a supposed female here who is opposed to porn. He is also probably going off that as well.
Who knew that the idea that the female sex drive is lower than it's male equivalent was so controversial. Tiassa's post ignores the fact that any discussion of human behavior is talking about the average individual. There will always be exceptions. So his tail of exploring the limits of the human anus is irrelevant. As to my wife wanting to nail me, it's true that she doesn't want sex as much as I do; but we certainly do have sex. Just not once or twice a day, as I'd prefer.

As to all the various comments about my claiming that females don't like sex, I never said that. I simply said that the male sex drive is higher. Do all of you honestly dispute that the male sex drive is, on average, much stronger than the female sex drive? I mean, sure, there are always individual variants who don't follow the pattern so anecdotal data can be misleading. But any search of the available evidence reveals the truth. Here's a nice summary:
Birds do it, bees do it, and men do it any old time. But women will only do it if the candles are scented just right -- and their partner has done the dishes first. A stereotype, sure, but is it true? Do men really have stronger sex drives than women?

Well, yes, they do. Study after study illustrates that men's sex drives are not only stronger than women's, but much more straightforward. The sources of women's libidos, by contrast, are much more difficult to pin down.

It's common wisdom that women place more value on emotional connection as a spark of sexual desire. But women also appear to be heavily influenced by social and cultural factors as well.

"Sexual desire in women is extremely sensitive to environment and context," says Edward O. Laumann, PhD, a professor of sociology at the University of Chicago and lead author of a major survey of sexual practices, The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States.

Here are seven patterns of men's and women's sex drives that researchers have found. Bear in mind that individuals may vary from these norms.
1. Men think more about sex.

The majority of adult men under 60 think about sex at least once a day, reports Laumann. Only about one-quarter of women report this level of frequency. As men and women age, each fantasize less, but men still fantasize about twice as often.

In a comprehensive survey of studies comparing male and female sex drives, Roy Baumeister, a social psychologist at Florida State University, found that men reported more spontaneous sexual arousal and had more frequent and varied fantasies.
2. Men seek sex more avidly.

"Men want sex more often than women at the start of a relationship, in the middle of it, and after many years of it," Baumeister concludes after reviewing several surveys of men and women. This isn't just true of heterosexuals, he reports: gay men also have higher frequency of sex than lesbians at all stages of the relationship. Men also say they want more sex partners in their lifetime, and are more interested in casual sex.

Men are more likely to seek sex even when it is frowned upon or even outlawed:

* About two-thirds say they masturbate, even though about half also say they feel guilty about it, Laumann says. By contrast, about 40% of women say they masturbate, and the frequency of masturbation is smaller among women.
* Prostitution is still mostly a phenomenon of men seeking sex with women, rather than the other way around.
* Nuns do a better job of fulfilling their vows of chastity than priests. Baumeister cites a survey of several hundred clergy by Sheila Murphy in which 62% of priests admitted to sexual activity, compared to 49% of nuns. The men reported more partners on average than the women.

3. Women's sexual inclinations are more complicated than men's.

What turns women on? Not even women always seem to know. Northwestern University researcher Meredith Chivers and colleagues showed erotic films to gay and straight men and women. They asked them about their level of sexual arousal, and also measured their actual level of arousal through devices attached to their genitals.

For men, the results were predictable: Straight men said they were more turned on by depictions of male-female sex and female-female sex, and the measuring devices backed up their claims. Gay men said they were turned on by male-male sex, and again the devices backed them up. For women, the results were more surprising. Straight women, for example, saidthey were more turned on by male-female sex. But genitally they showed about the same reaction to male-female, male-male, and female-female sex.

"Men are very rigid and specific about who they become aroused by, who they want to have sex with, who they fall in love with," says J. Michael Bailey, a Northwestern University sex researcher and co-author with Chivers on the study.

By contrast, women may be more open to same-sex relationships thanks to their less-directed sex drives, Bailey says. "Women probably have the capacity to become sexually interested in and fall in love with their own sex more than men do," Bailey says. "They won't necessarily do it, but they have the capacity."

Bailey's contention is backed up by studies showing that homosexuality is a more fluid state among women than men. In another broad review of studies, Baumeister found many more lesbians reported recent sex with men, when compared to gay men's reports of sex with women. Women were also more likely than men to call themselves bisexual, and to report their sexual orientation as a matter of choice.
4. Women's sex drives are more influenced by social and cultural factors.

In his review, Baumeister found studies showing many ways in which women's sexual attitudes, practices and desires were more influenced by their environment than men:

* Women's attitudes towards (and willingness to perform) various sexual practices are more likely than men's to change over time.
* Women who regularly attend church are less likely to have permissive attitudes about sex. Men do not show this connection between church attendance and sex attitudes.
* Women are more influenced by the attitudes of their peer group in their decisions about sex.
* Women with higher education levels were more likely to have performed a wider variety of sexual practices (such as oral sex); education made less of a difference with men.
* Women were more likely than men to show inconsistency between their expressed values about sexual activities such as premarital sex and their actual behavior. http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare?page=3
Here's a really interesting article that discusses the evolutionary theory behind the male female sex drive disparity and suggests ways to remake society to "square" them:
Will the male and female sex drive ever square? http://www.asiatour.com/sex-drive.htm

The web site I found that second article on was pretty interesting. He suggests (in his manifesto) that the purpose of life is:
I have stated initially that the primary, philosophical values in life are a gentle death (or, in more general terms, the absence of suffering) and optimal orgasms (or, in more general terms, sexual happiness). The second-tier values are safety and freedom.
http://www.sexualfront.com/kreutz-manifest.htm
And here are several studies/articles regarding male/female sexuality:

On visual stimulation/sex drive: men had greater activity in the amygdala and hypothalamus than did women, writes Hamann. Women showed no significant activation in these regions.
Stephan Hamann, PhD, Nature Neuroscience.
The cover story for the May 29, 2000 issue of Newsweek Magazine was "The Science of Women's Sexuality." The lead article devoted most of its space to the fact that no one had yet come up with a solution to the problem of female sexual desire. Testosterone, the only known aphrodisiac, is plentiful in men and scarce in women, which helps explain the difference between male and female sexual desire.
After eight years of tests involving 3000 women, Pfizer, the company behind Viagra, the little blue pill that has transformed some men's sex lives, has abandoned efforts to prove that the drug works for females, too.
Its exhaustive research has concluded that men and women have a fundamentally different relationship between arousal and desire. A women's arousal is triggered by a network of emotional, intellectual and relationship-based factors rather than the simple physical response required by a man.
Dr Mitra Boolel, the leader of the company's sex research team, says: "The brain is the crucial sexual organ in a woman." While a man's arousal almost always led to a desire for sex, there was no such obvious corresponding factor with women, he says.
"There's a disconnect in many women between genital changes and mental changes. This disconnect does not exist in men. Men consistently get erections in the presence of naked women and want to have sex. With women, things depend on myriad factors."
Sex drive - it's not a subject that most women feel comfortable discussing amongst themselves or sometimes even with their partners. However, low sexual libido, a previously understudied condition, is starting to gain more attention from women and medical researchers alike.
This diminished sexual desire often occurs in both men and women with advancing age and can result from a number of biologic and psychological circumstances. For women, who are twice as likely as men to experience low libido.
http://www.naturalpathhealthcenter.c..._learnmore.asp
Libido, although mediated by sex hormones, really is a function of the brain. Specific areas of the brain have been identified in animals as essential for sexual receptivity. When one of these areas are experimentally destroyed, sexual behavior is lost regardless of hormone levels. In female hamsters, with their ovaries removed, estrogen supplementation alone is insufficient to restore sexual receptivity. Progesterone is also required. The inference is that estrogen "primes" the brains cells and progesterone "turns on" the sex drive. http://www.sheld.com/lifeflo/1libido.html
It's generally accepted amongst sex therapists that the female libido is more complicated than the male libido. While sex is a physical desire in both males and females, a woman's sex drive is as much psychological as it is physical. q=differences+in+male+and+female+libido&first=11&F ORM=PERE

Female sexual dysfunction — low libido, slow arousal, difficulty reaching orgasm, and painful intercourse — occurs in about 43% of women. While that exceeds the number of men who report sexual dysfunction — 31%
J Womens Health Gend Based Med. 2001;10(4):389-4

Female Libido higher during most fertile days
Biological factors appear to increase the likelihood that a woman will have a higher female libido and engage in sexual intercourse during her most fertile days rather than at other times, according to the results of a new study.
J Womens Health Gend Based Med. 2002 Mar;11(2):155-62.
Progesterone is produced by the female body at ovulation.
And womens sex health issues are specifically related to the menstrual cycle. Driven by progesterone and estrogen production, normal womens sexual health involves a feeling in the woman that she wants to have sexual relations at a time when it's most likely to result in pregnancy.
So - if you have lower levels of progesterone in your body, it stands to reason that you will have less feelings of well-being nor desire. Womens sexual health declines. Also, testosterone is one of the hormones responsible for womens sexual health. The ovaries and the adrenal glands are responsible for maintaining adequate levels of testosterone in women.
The levels of testosterone decline as we get older, but this hormone declines the most at menopause. Normally women make only about one tenth the amount of testosterone that men do.
We know that men and women can have differing sex drives. Men and women, for instance, both have a hormone called testosterone, but this is present in much higher amounts in men. Women have high amounts of hormones called estrogen and progesterone. Testosterone is known to cause facial and body hair and larger muscles, but it can also cause certain emotions, like aggression and increased sex drive. Young men, for example, have strong sex drives, most likely due to the increase in testosterone that occurs at puberty.
http://www.obgyn.net/women/articles/libido_dah.htm[/I][/INDENT]

this guy had the most satisfactory answer so far... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090401052902AAdHDwr

Porn isn't what happens in private. It's the graphic depiction of every form of sex you can imagine and those yet to be invented. It's a friggin' business or a hobby in some cases.

So pornography tackles the varied world of sex but it wouldn't be pornography if it wasn't available for all to see. Pornography is far from anything natural. It's calculated to play on your emotions, wants & desires even if considered perverse, and it can educate as well. Its a marketable product and is not just the domain of professionals. Plenty of amateurs produce reasonable good porn but it is no different than singing karaoke, some are good at it and some are bad.

A married guy I know went on a weekend fling with a young tart. No sooner get in the door then she's going down. What does the idiot do while she's busy, why nothing more than film the action on his cell phone. Trouble is he took it home and put it on his computer to send to his buddies. One of his buddy's wives saw it and called the guy's wife but that's another story. What I'm saying is that the sex here was not pornographic until it's imagery became public.

A good marriage doesn't need pornography, although nowadays it is difficult to escape it because it is even out on the streets, schools, and shopping malls.

Who knew that the idea that the female sex drive is lower than it's male equivalent was so controversial

With some people it is. When it gets down to the individual level, women are going to resent men's reliance on stereotypes to define them. One might suggest that it is easy enough for a couple to just talk these things through, but those discussions are themselves fraught with distorting superstition. For instance, the state of love and trust is such that I've known women to hold back their sexual impulses because of the risk their intimate partners would pose if they knew. It's not a uniform circumstance by any stretch of the imagination, but I've never known a heterosexual man who has faced the inherent question. Partner A recognizes a desire for, oh, let's say, anal penetration, but is unwilling to express this to Partner B because A doesn't know if it's actually going to be pleasurable, and also recognizes from experience from little things like pulling hair or putting hands over the throat that once an aspect of sexual expression is explored, B automatically adopts it into the repertoire. Partner A knows from prior experience that if anal penetration is allowed once, it will be expected, and this disrupts the positive development of the relationship.

Now, I've known a couple of guys who faced similar circumstances, but not quite the same. The way I see it, if you tell your wife that you get off on her getting off with other guys, don't be surprised if you don't always know who she's fucking.

In these cases, it's the nature of the relationship between individuals more than it is the fact of men and women. But the war of the sexes does play out; the actual complications are invested in stereotypes and baseless presuppositions.

Among some, the difference between a hard, stabbing rutting and a slowburn is significant of a difference in sex drives, with the less painful being viewed as characteristic of a lower sex drive.

It's not always the fact of someone generalizing the lower female sex drive--although in many cases it is--but also what people do with it.

Tiassa's post ignores the fact that any discussion of human behavior is talking about the average individual. There will always be exceptions. So his tail of exploring the limits of the human anus is irrelevant. As to my wife wanting to nail me, it's true that she doesn't want sex as much as I do; but we certainly do have sex. Just not once or twice a day, as I'd prefer.

No, I'm not irritated that you missed the point. Indeed, I expected you to. But that's only because I was trying to be ... uh ... what's the word? Oh, yeah, "concise". Something like a clear thesis? That's just wasted words.

Anyway, the tale of exploring the limits of the human anus is relevant specifically because you brought it up:

"Hell, why do you think AIDS spread so quickly among male homosexuals versus heterosexuals? Because homosexuals have no woman in the equation to say no."

So, really, what is it you said? Once or twice a day, as you'd prefer? If I could get nailed twice a day I would definitely attempt to maintain the relationship. And that's significant in my personal context. But here's the thing: I couldn't get nailed twice a day. At least, not by what I prefer. Really, my body just couldn't take it. Now, maybe if it was small and took the right strokes, but we'll skip the technical details, eh? My point being that after even a mere week or two my anus would show remarkably greater wear and tear than Lindy's--or your wife's--cooch.

And all I was getting after with that is that you're overlooking some important details about the spread of HIV among homosexuals in the 1980s. Sure, it made for something of a funny line, but in this case the simple difference of the nature of HIV transmission--the difference between a vagina and an anus, how much less of a pounding your buttflesh can take over the long run, how many more pathways that provides the virus--is pretty obvious.

And, yes there are more subtly influential factors like civic response to HIV, cultural prejudices, and the behavioral characteristics of a constricted community struggling with drugs and hopelessness, but let's not let these trifling details get in the way of the real reason.

That's all I'm after.

Tiassa, I never really paid much attention to you until this post, but good job.

And all I was getting after with that is that you're overlooking some important details about the spread of HIV among homosexuals in the 1980s. Sure, it made for something of a funny line, but in this case the simple difference of the nature of HIV transmission--the difference between a vagina and an anus, how much less of a pounding your buttflesh can take over the long run, how many more pathways that provides the virus--is pretty obvious.

And, yes there are more subtly influential factors like civic response to HIV, cultural prejudices, and the behavioral characteristics of a constricted community struggling with drugs and hopelessness, but let's not let these trifling details get in the way of the real reason.

That's all I'm after.Certainly the other things you mention also played a role. No doubt a significant one. But you can't deny that high levels of promiscuity among male homosexuals also played a role. One study of male homosexuals in the 1970's reports that 40% reported over 500 sexual partners (A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women; New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978). Other's showed fewer, but all showed much higher numbers of sexual partners among male homosexuals than heterosexuals. Total lifetime partners for male heterosexuals average around 6 to 8. Whereas the same study cited above found only 3% of male homosexuals reporting fewer than 10 partners.

Bath houses, glory holes, sex clubs, etc. Surely these things (which, back in the seventies, seemed like just good, clean fun) played some role. Who else is at increased risk? Excluding IV drug users and recipients of blood products, Prostitutes. Is that because prostitutes engage in anal sex more than non-prostitutes? They probably do. But I'd wager it's the increased number of sexual partners that is part and parcel of their trade that increases their risk. Just as the increased number of sexual partners among male homosexuals, especially back in the days when we didn't know of the risks, played a role in the increased risk of HIV among that group.

Certainly the other things you mention also played a role. No doubt a significant one. But you can't deny that high levels of promiscuity among male homosexuals also played a role.

Not at all. But that's also a far different proposition than the original.

I'm just busting your punch line. I mean, it works fine for a chuckle, but it's not much for an actual argument. Remember, all this starts with Draqon's assertion (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1894716&postcount=3) that pornography makes masturbation more efficient for men. I mean, really?

Seriously.

And, apparently, it's needed for masturbation.

And, furthermore, women don't have this problem.

At least, according to Draqon.

Might I suggest that in waiting nine or ten months to take your second crack at Asguard's admittedly unexpected response to Draqon, you might have lost a bit of your grasp on the context? I mean, your first attempt (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1897455&postcount=46) was actually a good one. Tragic, that beaver thing, eh?

I, personally, believe that men have a higher sex drive in some objectively measurable way, such as devoting a greater portion of our personal resources--money, thought, action, whatever--to attending and gratifying it. But look at what simple treatment of the idea has led to. Men are viewed as oversexed, women as sexless. And this leads to all manner of confusion, frustration, and eventually hostility. You know, they're all just teases. Dressing up like they're begging for it. Leading you on. But, you know, they're women, so they don't actually like sex.

But neither is sex drive the sole source of such outlooks. There is also the smoldering resentment that comes from the fact that if men were, as a general rule, better fucks, women would be more interested in fucking us. It's not so much the whole milk and cow thing, but rather something about wanting the cow, an underage gymnast, a wily hooker, a mother, maid, and wet nurse, and those twin Mormon girls who roller skated around their daddy's drive-in to bring you all the goddamn milkshakes you can cram down your throat all wrapped up in a single woman.

I would say something about masturbation being mandatory, but I'm a liberal so you might miss the fact that it's a joke and voice your outrage at the tyranny of the orgasm. I wouldn't go so far as to require anal plugs, but I really do think they would do some good for the majority of the population.

And, you know, there's a diverse range of plugs, too. I wouldn't be so demanding as to prescribe an official plug. There's the slender lily-pad looking things, or the one that looks like a clown's nose. Sorry, don't mean to ramble. I'm just looking for a way to work the phrase "Captain Honky" into the post. Mission accomplished.

Might I suggest that in waiting nine or ten months to take your second crack at Asguard's admittedly unexpected response to Draqon, you might have lost a bit of your grasp on the context? I mean, your first attempt (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1897455&postcount=46) was actually a good one. Tragic, that beaver thing, eh?
Er. Perhaps you have a point there. Thanks for reminding me of it. The best part about the Beaver comment was Asgard's response:
umm mad im sorry but i honestly have no idea what your talking about:( im involved in alot of threads at the moment

I looked through the thread and cant find ANY beverLOL. Now that's funny.

to mad

i guess you got the 'grab your torch and pitchforks' response after saying women have a lower sex drive due to how your assertion has been used in the past. you did present a lot of studies to support your argument.

i was looking at a psychology book which said that men are more likely to be peeping toms because the sexual reward is more accessible (we wank quicker). maybe a woman's sex drive is on par with men, but the harder to reach orgasm puts them off, and so their desire isn't accurately reflected by their behaviour?

to mad

i guess you got the 'grab your torch and pitchforks' response after saying women have a lower sex drive due to how your assertion has been used in the past. you did present a lot of studies to support your argument.

i was looking at a psychology book which said that men are more likely to be peeping toms because the sexual reward is more accessible (we wank quicker). maybe a woman's sex drive is on par with men, but the harder to reach orgasm puts them off, and so their desire isn't accurately reflected by their behaviour?

also a reason that i don't go begging..

my gf's hillsong neighbour gave her family a christian doco on porn and how it makes you a serial killer and ruins your life. so we can add that to the cons list.

Oh god.. maybe its to late for me..

A good marriage doesn't need pornography, although nowadays it is difficult to escape it because it is even out on the streets, schools, and shopping malls.

LOL. Need? Maybe not, but it sure gives ya great ideas. And I've never seen porn in the streets, schools, or mall.

Neither have I. I think that was just an angry exaggeration.

So, really, what is it you said? Once or twice a day, as you'd prefer? If I could get nailed twice a day I would definitely attempt to maintain the relationship. And that's significant in my personal context. But here's the thing: I couldn't get nailed twice a day. At least, not by what I prefer. Really, my body just couldn't take it. Now, maybe if it was small and took the right strokes, but we'll skip the technical details, eh? My point being that after even a mere week or two my anus would show remarkably greater wear and tear than Lindy's--or your wife's--cooch.

Huh. All the homos I know fuck like animals. They have some of the best blogs ever.

They say the best part about being gay is how easy guys are.

Pornography has been around as long as fucking.
It's bloody human nature.
The extreme forms of pornography however, are a more modern deviant.

Pornography has been around as long as fucking.
It's bloody human nature.
The extreme forms of pornography however, are a more modern deviant.

Rape has been around as long as fucking.
It's bloody human nature.

Rape has been around as long as fucking.
It's bloody human nature.
More than that, some have argued that sexual dimorphism exists in humans to facilitate rape.

More than that, some have argued that sexual dimorphism exists in humans to facilitate rape.

????

More than that, some have argued that sexual dimorphism exists in humans to facilitate rape.

That doesn't make sense. Rape would discourage that sort of sexual dimorphism. In species where "rape" is common, the females develop physical defenses. For instance, female bedbugs mate with multiple males, and then fertilize eggs from different mates. To get around this fitness barrier, males evolved penises to bore through the female's abdomen straight to her ovaries. In response to this, females evolved shield-like plates to prevent this, males evolved sharper, better boring penises, etc etc.

I think sexual dimorphism exists in humans largely due to selection on the immune system. Masculine traits are signs of a healthy immune system and good development. Chimps and orangutans, for instance, are immensely more powerful than humans, but lack all the stupid looking muscles that men grow to impress women. Being big and buff aren't really indicators of how strong or tough you are. The toughest, strongest people on earth look like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Wadshagga-Tribesman.jpg

not this:
http://www.homeworking.ws/megalightning,%20mummy,%20flying%20saucer/freak.jpg

More than that, some have argued that sexual dimorphism exists in humans to facilitate rape.

That's even better than rape among fruit flies.

To Porn!

The easiest way to get stimulated. :-P

i sugest you go tell any 30 year old women she doesnt need sex

why i go after older women :)

More than that, some have argued that sexual dimorphism exists in humans to facilitate rape.

while i am glad we have stopped arguing about other things.. i was wondering if you stand behind this if thats what your opinion is or are you just citing?

[To Porn or Not to Porn?]

For all the porn lovers, porn haters, porn advocates, porn viewers, porn sluts, porn freaks, porn addicts, porn actor/esses, porn makers or the simply "pornless"...you get the idea...

The very term porn is rather loaded. Wikipedia defines it as "Pornography or porn is the depiction of explicit sexual subject matter for the purpose of sexually exciting the viewer. Pornography makes no claim to artistic merit, unlike erotica which does."

But that's not a full description. Put simply, not everything that's classified as porn was recorded 'for the purpose of sexually exciting the viewer'. Conversely, some stuff that is -not- meant to sexually excite anyone does. Sometimes laws are based on this fact. What sexually excites or arouses a person is highly variable and frequently the person has little if any control over what arouses them, although they may be able to theorize as to the reasons that they are aroused by one thing or another.

Another issue which I think is crucially important is this divide people have between doing something (and obviously seeing it if you're one of the involved parties) and allowing it to be recorded; that is, at times, it can be illegal to record something but legal to do it. MadAnthonyWayne has brought the subject up before in his sexting threads and there's also the example of nude beaches.

As to erotic recordings, I think the issue is whether the people in question are benefitting on the whole both from the event as well as from the recordings. If the answer is yes to both, then it's good. If not, then it's not.

The very term porn is rather loaded. Wikipedia defines it as "Pornography or porn is the depiction of explicit sexual subject matter for the purpose of sexually exciting the viewer. Pornography makes no claim to artistic merit, unlike erotica which does."

But that's not a full description. Put simply, not everything that's classified as porn was recorded 'for the purpose of sexually exciting the viewer'. Conversely, some stuff that is -not- meant to sexually excite anyone does. Sometimes laws are based on this fact. What sexually excites or arouses a person is highly variable and frequently the person has little if any control over what arouses them, although they may be able to theorize as to the reasons that they are aroused by one thing or another.

Another issue which I think is crucially important is this divide people have between doing something (and obviously seeing it if you're one of the involved parties) and allowing it to be recorded; that is, at times, it can be illegal to record something but legal to do it. MadAnthonyWayne has brought the subject up before in his sexting threads and there's also the example of nude beaches.

As to erotic recordings, I think the issue is whether the people in question are benefitting on the whole both from the event as well as from the recordings. If the answer is yes to both, then it's good. If not, then it's not.

but do both people have to benifit?

actually i suggest you ask any women who has already had sex if they could chose to give it up for good (no sex, no masterbation ect). Think you might be surpised by the answer you get (asuming they dont slap you)

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! give up sex?? JEEZ NO WAY!!!! That whole idea gives me shivers down my spine

Give up masturbation? Do you want to see me in a padded cell, screaming and thrashing myself against the walls? :D

I gave up sex, almost! :D Masturbation? Not giving that up.

but do both people have to benifit?

Ofcourse. Don't you think that's how it should be?

Ofcourse. Don't you think that's how it should be?

yes... i just wanted to clarify.

yes... i just wanted to clarify.

Ok :-)

"Pornography or porn is the depiction of explicit sexual subject matter for the purpose of sexually exciting the viewer. Pornography makes no claim to artistic merit, unlike erotica which does."

I though it worth pointing out that the Wikipedia definition you provided is political. That pornography makes no claim to artistic merit is, in the first place, bullshit and, to the other, a statement intended to characterize pornography against the Roth Standard, which is a bar for judging obscenity. One of the key elements of the Roth Standard. From Roth v. United States:

All ideas having even the slightest redeeming social importance -- unorthodox ideas, controversial ideas, even ideas hateful to the prevailing climate of opinion -- have the full protection of the guaranties, unless excludable because they encroach upon the limited area of more important interests. But implicit in the history of the First Amendment is the rejection of obscenity as utterly without redeeming social importance. This rejection for that reason is mirrored in the universal judgment that obscenity should be restrained, reflected in the international agreement of over 50 nations, in the obscenity laws of all of the 48 States, and in the 20 obscenity laws enacted by the Congress from 1842 to 1956. This is the same judgment expressed by this Court in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 ....

(Brennan (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0354_0476_ZS.html))

To reiterate: But implicit in the history of the First Amendment is the rejection of obscenity as utterly without redeeming social importance.

This is what whoever wrote that bit for Wikipedia was aiming at.

(I'm aware of a user-generated pornography website that recently claimed it was facing a lawsuit for allegedly violating some user's rights. Their explanation was brief—excuse me, concise—but never did explain the core legal issue. One thing I do recall, though, was the strange explanation that the complainant had come to the site because he thought he had a small penis and was searching pornography sites in order to confirm this and understand the notion of an average penis, or some such. But it literally had to do with a guy with a small penis claiming to be trying to view other penises, and how the site treated galleries featuring any penises. Really, it gets strange trying to figure out what the alleged tort actually was, but the point is that there are plenty who would assign some sort of redeeming social value to pornography.)
____________________

Notes:

Brennan, J. William. "Opinion of the Court". Roth v. United States (354 U.S. 476). Supreme Court of the United States. June 24, 1957. Legal Information Institute at Cornell University Law School. Accessed May 5, 2009. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0354_0476_ZO.html

I though it worth pointing out that the Wikipedia definition you provided is political. That pornography makes no claim to artistic merit is, in the first place, bullshit and, to the other, a statement intended to characterize pornography against the Roth Standard, which is a bar for judging obscenity.To determine whether or not pornography is "art", one must first decide what art is. To me, art is a representation of something presented in such a way that it induces an emotional response. Great music, for instance, can definitely induce an emotional response. Muzak, on the other hand, can not. Pornography? In as much as lust is an emotion, I say it is art.

lets break it down to where people can understand...shall we?

your eating dinner with your family (including your children) you have a nice window table at the restaurant and along comes an old man and proceeds to play with himself.

is that art?

your sitting at the same table with your family and along comes an old man who sits down and starts playing a fiddle.

is that art?

Pornography? In as much as lust is an emotion, I say it is art.

As a general principle, I agree. But the particulars are a bit more complex, as diverse opinion on the subject suggests. The obvious example is child porn. We actually throw art out the window on that one, and I tend to agree in most circumstances.

Or, perhaps ... well ...

Content Warning

Ellis, Warren. "America Broke Sex". Sunday Hangover. November 4, 2007. SuicideGirls.com. Accessed May 5, 2009. http://suicidegirls.com/news/culture/22595/

For most people, there is a limit. And while those limits are marked all over the Universe, what would the Venn overlap look like?

Is shitting on a retarded woman (the "Hot Carl") art? I mean, I can actually conceive of circumstances where it might be, but presented for sexual gratification? How about trying to kill a woman by beating her skull in while fucking her in the ass? Does it evoke an emotional response? Sure. Is it art?

Art is dynamic. Fixing the boundaries of artistic expression has, historically, proven problematic. The outcomes are occasionally hilarious. Check out porn mangas. I mean, okay, so two pre-teen boys with enormous cocks show up at their aunt's house and gang rape her. And, of course, she decides she likes it. (Isn't that always the way with women?) And yet, despite the horrible dialogue, the cookie-cutter sex scenes, and the obsession with a childish outlook on sexuality, what the Japanese worry about is genitalia. For all these comic books offer, there is this tiny black stripe over the genitalia. Apparently, if you redact the urethral opening, you're not actually seeing the genitalia.

This is how extreme it is: You're familiar with the digital masking that hides genitalia, or people's faces, or a controversial logo on a t-shirt, right? It's not even that. Take a page out of a comic book, get a flair pen, and draw a thin black line directly over the urethral opening. Sure, you've got a couple of children with nine-inch cocks double-ending their own aunt, but you've moved beyond obscenity with that. Literally, 1/16" line over your pee-slit is all the difference in the world.

And, yes, that's a Japanese standard, but I think the underlying point is still valid: Fixed boundaries for decency and obscenity just don't work. And trying to create a fixed definition of art amounts to the same.

The problem is that anyone can assert art, and at some point we must judge the validity of that assertion if we intend to censor or otherwise prohibit it. Now, perhaps one might say that the child rape story in which the victim screams and fights until she realizes how much she likes being gang-banged by all the men in the family has artistic merit in depicting the folly of the myth that women like to be raped, but if you repeatedly fail to deliver that conclusion, people will eventually conclude the statement is bullshit.

I have a fairly broad definition of art. Did you ever see Steve Martin in L. A. Story?

Harris: (viewing a painting) I like the relationships. I mean, each character has his own story. The puppy is a bit too much, but you have to over look things like that in these kinds of paintings. The way he's holding her ... it's almost ... filthy. I mean, he's about to kiss her and she's pulling away. The way the leg's sort of smashed up against her ... Phew ... Look how he's painted the blouse sort of translucent. You can just make out her breasts underneath and it's sort of touching him about here. It's really ... pretty torrid, don't you think? Then of course you have the onlookers peeking at them from behind the doorway like they're all shocked. They wish. Yeah, I must admit, when I see a painting like this, I get emotionally... erect.

The painting, as I recall, was a not-quite monochromatic red square. On the one hand, Martin was making fun of the pretentious art crowd. To the other, the red square is still art.

We have somewhere in storage a painting by a guy named Reynolds. It's a picture of a bridge in some port town somewhere, dominated by strange shades of green and orange and gold. Known that painting all my life; we never took great care of it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was molding in a storage unit somewhere. In my late teens, I encountered another Reynolds painting hanging in a gallery. A black canvas with bright oils spattered and smeared. I recognized the brushstrokes from afar, and when I got close enough to see the name scrawled in the corner, I grinned. And then I saw the price tag. $5,000.

I prefer the one we have. At least it has form. But holy shit, five grand? At least Wilson and Cannetti made forms out of their splatters.

But it's all still art. Might be a hard case to make, a bunch of bright, formless spatters on a dark canvas, but it's not as tough a case to make as shitting on a retarded woman, or trying to donkey punch a whore into the grave.

I though it worth pointing out that the Wikipedia definition you provided is political. That pornography makes no claim to artistic merit is, in the first place, bullshit and, to the other, a statement intended to characterize pornography against the Roth Standard, which is a bar for judging obscenity. One of the key elements of the Roth Standard. From Roth v. United States:

All ideas having even the slightest redeeming social importance -- unorthodox ideas, controversial ideas, even ideas hateful to the prevailing climate of opinion -- have the full protection of the guaranties, unless excludable because they encroach upon the limited area of more important interests. But implicit in the history of the First Amendment is the rejection of obscenity as utterly without redeeming social importance. This rejection for that reason is mirrored in the universal judgment that obscenity should be restrained, reflected in the international agreement of over 50 nations, in the obscenity laws of all of the 48 States, and in the 20 obscenity laws enacted by the Congress from 1842 to 1956. This is the same judgment expressed by this Court in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 ....

(Brennan (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0354_0476_ZS.html))

To reiterate: But implicit in the history of the First Amendment is the rejection of obscenity as utterly without redeeming social importance.

This is what whoever wrote that bit for Wikipedia was aiming at.

(I'm aware of a user-generated pornography website that recently claimed it was facing a lawsuit for allegedly violating some user's rights. Their explanation was brief—excuse me, concise—but never did explain the core legal issue. One thing I do recall, though, was the strange explanation that the complainant had come to the site because he thought he had a small penis and was searching pornography sites in order to confirm this and understand the notion of an average penis, or some such. But it literally had to do with a guy with a small penis claiming to be trying to view other penises, and how the site treated galleries featuring any penises. Really, it gets strange trying to figure out what the alleged tort actually was, but the point is that there are plenty who would assign some sort of redeeming social value to pornography.)
____________________

Notes:

Brennan, J. William. "Opinion of the Court". Roth v. United States (354 U.S. 476). Supreme Court of the United States. June 24, 1957. Legal Information Institute at Cornell University Law School. Accessed May 5, 2009. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0354_0476_ZO.html


Perhaps something to consider is this; when the words are stripped away, all we have are actions. I think that someone untouched by the hardships of life would only want depictions of people consenting to pleasurable things. However, most people have, in fact, been touched by the hardships of life, to varying degrees. As extreme examples, you get some of the recordings that you mention in a later post.

I think the rule I mentioned earlier should apply to 'good porn': that is, if the people depicted benefit, then it's good, if not, then it's not. There is, ofcourse, also the issue of the audience. What happens between 2 people may be beneficial to them, even if it's recorded and seen by others. But is it always good for those who see it?

Ofcourse, these are what one might call 'moral niceties', when reality is as at times as you describe in the post above this one.

The main problem with porn is actual sex isn't photogenic. People having intense orgasms look like they are in agony and the positions which are the most stimulating in reality don't show anything to an on looker. So you get these weird goofy shots with people who are desperately faking it. Add in cookie cutter actors, poor acting, no plots and poor productions values and the only people who could possibly get excited about porn are religious prudes.

Hell, why do you think AIDS spread so quickly among male homosexuals versus heterosexuals?

World wide AIDS has spread more quickly through heterosexual populations. It just initially spread through the gay population in the US.

we'd all be fucking all the time.

You mean you aren't?

The main problem with porn is actual sex isn't photogenic. People having intense orgasms look like they are in agony and the positions which are the most stimulating in reality don't show anything to an on looker. So you get these weird goofy shots with people who are desperately faking it. Add in cookie cutter actors, poor acting, no plots and poor productions values and the only people who could possibly get excited about porn are religious prudes.

I think you're thinking of mainstream porn, which I have generally found to be rather dull. Amateur porn, which is found much more easily online, is different. As to looking like agony, perhaps if a person has never actually had sex; however, if one has, I think that that one would know what's really going on. Note that I'm not getting into the BDSM stuff, something that I generally don't like.

Wow, someone resurrected my porn thread!

Wow, someone resurrected my porn thread!

KernNeart

As to looking like agony, perhaps if a person has never actually had sex; however, if one has, I think that that one would know what's really going on.

You haven't seen many good orgasms, have you?

You haven't seen many good orgasms, have you?

We may differ on what good is, but remember my caveat; if you know what's going on, you don't see it in the same way then if you don't. Or are you getting into the BDSM thing?

did someone say ORGASM????????
fap,fap,fap. :)

did someone say ORGASM????????
fap,fap,fap. :)

fap?

wow.

fap?
yeah.
wow.
that's what she said.

fap?

giyd!

fap?

giyd!

You're enjoying this aren't you :-p?

fap?

yeah.

I looked it up. That is just.. laugh ;-).

We may differ on what good is, but remember my caveat; if you know what's going on, you don't see it in the same way then if you don't. Or are you getting into the BDSM thing?

facettes de la petite mort
http://www.beautifulagony.com/

KernNeart

do you think i can do it again? what about old people porn?

Are you Porn AGAIN!!!

Take baby Jesus into your ...

http://www.divine-interventions.com/baby.php