I always found this arguement to be immpossible so iwanna see what u guy can come up with.
(considering time travel is possible)
If i go back in time and kill my grandfather, than since my grandfather doesnt exsist, i wouldnt exsist,so my grandfather would exsist again, because if hesdead i couldnt have gone back in time 2 kill him.
If u find this story confusing its basiclly saying that u cant kill ur grandfather, because if he didnt exsist u wouldnt exsist, and if u didnt exsist u couldnt have gone back in time 2 kill him. If u ca find a way out of this, please let me no.

Perturbation. You kill your grandad and the woman who would have been your grandmother marries his brother or his friend, and the version of you that later exists changes slightly.

But then its not u. If ur grandfather is killed by YOU then its not possible 4 him 2 have died, because he would be dead so YOU arent born so u cant go back in tim eand kill him, so both of u woul dbe the same as when u started

Time Travel - Fact or Fiction? (http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/time_travel.html)

Acutally from what ive read time travel would be possible if we could figure out how 2 survive a black hole. But if time travel was possible....would we really want 2 goscrew things up?

Originally posted by Addictive
Acutally from what ive read time travel would be possible if we could figure out how 2 survive a black hole. But if time travel was possible....would we really want 2 goscrew things up? Time and the universe care nothing for your opinion. ;)

what the hell is that supposed 2 mean.......if u change one thing in time the universe wouldnt be the same, and if u change the universe time wouldnt be the same, its not really just my opinion.

Originally posted by Addictive
if u change one thing in time the universe wouldnt be the
same, and if u change the universe time wouldnt be the
same, its not really just my opinion.
Do you mean like in the movie Back To The Future?

time occurs as a continually flowing path, so you cannot change the past merely influence it. because if you go back in time from era B to era A the when your present state was era B there was also a you from era A there at the same time,

if time travel is possible we might see someone tommorrow who has travelled back in time from the year 2040, without fail when the year 2040 comes back around we will send that person back to 2003 to complete the time flow it is not possible to go any other way.

The paradox might be considered a proof that travelling backwards in time can never be done.

Well, I really don't see that paradox as "proof" of anything, but the paradox may be an argument for multiple universes. It is theorized by some that for every random event (think quantum level events) a new universe is created/exists. This of course also extends to macroscopic events. This would mean that by going back in time, you've killed your grandfather, and in that timeline, you'll never be born. But that matter that is YOU, did not come from that timeline and thus still exists.

-AntonK

I decided awhile ago that, if possible, I would travel back in time and talk to myself in the current present. I wouldn't say "pollux, I'm you from fifty years from now." I think I'd leave a note or something--"how's life...well, gotta run, 2063 breaks for no-body!"

But nothing like that has happened. And it would have happened by now. So either within my entire lifetime time travel never becomes a reality, I never get access to it, or I decide not to travel back in time for one reason or another.

As for the whole grandfather paradox thing--simple: if you kill your grandfather, two different times branch out. One reality where your grandfather is alive and one where he isn't, and you probably aren't. You're part of the one where he did live.

still one thing no1 answered 4 me when u disagree.....is that ur grandfather is dead...so u couldnt have been born....so u couldnt have gone back in time 2 kill him!!!!! eeeepp. Now i gotta go look up guartums or w/e thanks 2 ummm some guy that i didnt read the post of 2 well.

Originally posted by Pollux V
But nothing like that has happened. And it would have happened by now. So either within my entire lifetime time travel never becomes a reality, I never get access to it, or I decide not to travel back in time for one reason or another. Or tomorrow, you get a *very* interesting letter in the post. ;)

Originally posted by Addictive
still one thing no1 answered 4 me when u disagree.....is that ur grandfather is dead...so u couldnt have been born....so u couldnt have gone back in time 2 kill him!!!!! eeeepp. Now i gotta go look up guartums or w/e thanks 2 ummm some guy that i didnt read the post of 2 well. Ok, consider two timelines... A and B. You are in B. You travel back and try to kill your grandad. There has been a conjecture put forward that time has many "one way streets" so to speak. Back when your Grandad was alive, the current timeline you are in didn't even exist. It forked off subsequently from events occuring after then. If you kill your grandad, another man will marry your gran, and the net effect to your genepool won't be all that different. It may be that the very second you kill your grandad, everything changes to catch up, indeed that your appearance changes, and you forget who the man you just killed is, since he would then have no link to you. It's all something we'll have to try at a later date when the tech becomes available.

ah merci beaucoup....i finally understand the arguement ^_^teehee....dont really like the idea,but it works.

This is what we call a paradox, no oen can answer one, and dont even think to try, cause yah cant

Originally posted by Siddhartha
Ok, consider two timelines... A and B. You are in B. You travel back and try to kill your grandad. There has been a conjecture put forward that time has many "one way streets" so to speak. Back when your Grandad was alive, the current timeline you are in didn't even exist. It forked off subsequently from events occuring after then. If you kill your grandad, another man will marry your gran, and the net effect to your genepool won't be all that different. It may be that the very second you kill your grandad, everything changes to catch up, indeed that your appearance changes, and you forget who the man you just killed is, since he would then have no link to you. It's all something we'll have to try at a later date when the tech becomes available.

I guarantee that would be illegal my friend, Because one persons life changes a million others, if Booth hadn't killed lincoln im sure some other person would have, and if not, we probably wouldnt still be the same as we are today

you cannot predict how time will react to an introduction of a 'foriegn material' or someone changing something, nature and the physics laws show continually laws like lenz's law, le chatliers principle and countless others where a system has reacted to minimise the change that has been induced upon it,
to contemplate how the arrow of time may compensate is mindblowing

What I want to know is if someone did go back in time and tinker about, how would anyone in the future/present even know things had changed?:bugeye:

they wouldnt know anything had change because the old past in their minds never existed, you cant remember something that didnt happen therefore, if we hypothesize a number of events then the people in the future could be continually changing the past and we would never know because every second our minds would adapt the new timeline and we would percieve no change merely a memory of what we just did;

a second before i wrote this word i might have beenout in the desert on the otheer side of the world, but as soon as that piece of past was changed then i am 'here' at this point in time and my memories trace back from my position here and i have no recolation memory of a desert becuase it never happened.

they wouldnt know anything had change because the old past in their minds never existed, you cant remember something that didnt happen therefore, if we hypothesize a number of events then the people in the future could be continually changing the past and we would never know because every second our minds would adapt the new timeline and we would percieve no change merely a memory of what we just did;
This is my thinking as well, so if you did go back in time & kill your parents, when you get back no-one would know who you are, you've detached from the timeline(?)

personally i like to think that if it werent for the aging process, or the fact that people are born and die, than time would be irrelivant...

people just created such a system to schedule their own little dooms, or pointless events like birthdays and such... rather than worry about watches and schedules i imagine people would have some alternate system of aranging dates and meetings...

my point? time is not a tangible substance, it is not a "thing" or an existance, it is a concept... no flowing ribbon, or odd metaphores, and i'm sure a few people will read this and say it's pure blaspheme, but thats just it...

but i'll bite: lets say you do go back in "time" and kill your grandpa, you wouldnt stop existing, and a new universe would not be created, you'd simply be someone elses child, your grandma would have married someone possibly cities away from your "grandfather".... you'd simply be there, with a gun in your hands and a carcas on the floor with no motive, and perhaps even a case of amnesia... i imagine once the deed had been done you'd snap and go all aloof and not even remember why you were there.

I believe everything ski wampas said.... except for his "ill bite" part.

oh but i will :D look at those big chompers :eek:

wampas your arguement is poor, we are here to discuss and understand you say its untangible and thus not worth exploring, i dont care about my death when or how it occurs any semi aware person will put together memories with the present and the poosible future and get a concept this concept is time, we are exploring the idea of travelling back through this concept kapeesh, if u dont like the concept go else where start another topic saying you dont like 'time'.


lets say you do go back in "time" and kill your grandpa, you wouldnt stop existing, and a new universe would not be created, you'd simply be someone elses child,


then you wouldnt be you any more, you are created out of the combination of two people to have a different grandparent would make you only 3/4 of you not to mention the fact that that is an entirely different person and that you grandmother might shoot herself with despair after your grandfathers death, how is she going to have you with someone else then??

I think the general consensus in the scientific community is that travel back to a time before the time machine was built would be impossible. If so what about travel into the future, what effects would that have?

that is not what i meant man, i didnt come in here thinking i'm gonna start some anti-time movement and argue with you about it.

i'm just saying that to me time travel seems illogical, you cant travel through a concept... i've invested alot of time and thought into this, and i'm sorry but it just doesnt seem like it'll ever be a possability

Perhaps the only time travel possible is:

1. You figure a way to go faster then the speed of light.

2. then overtake a light wave that has left earth.

3. as you go faster you will be able to see the past like playing a movie backwards.

4. So by just observing the past you wont be able to change anything.

i'm just saying that to me time travel seems illogical
I can't really grasp it either, too many questions:bugeye:

If Humans could time travel from future to present then we would have another tourist industry.

Timetravel,id say about 8000 to 8100.At The Moment we dont really know what change is,we havent really had huge changes, so by 8000 thier would be significant changes by then,we would have done most things,so we would probably concentrate on uncomplished things.

This is what I would do:

Get in my time machine and travel back in time about two weeks and THEN kill my grandfather. That way, I'd still be alive and I'd of solved the paradox.

great effort i dont think you would remember where you grandfather lived with that intellect

Every event that occurs happens in space/time is stamped as x,y,z,physical coordinates and a date/time group. Since everything is moving in the universe an event that has a certain space/time group can only be experienced if that space is revisited.

Once that x,y,z spot is revisited a way must be found to reproduce the event that occured there. Perhaps when that space was occupied by matter it was modulated by that matter and when that matter moved on it left behind reverberations that if detected can reproduce the original event.

Possible?

Greco
Possible?
---
umm
well kinda but what if you make a cake and forget to put the sweetner in
would you still call it a cake
if you understand my vauge reference
energy is also a factor but i suspect that such energy is not able to be harnesed to effect your exact concept
remember that to place yourself into the situation is to alter the very situation by its conception of purity.
so you will have to first build the living computer to calculate the possible variables
and that is not too close in the future :D
as many have documented observation is potentialy easy and non disruptive.

If time-travel is possible, because compatible to physics,
then I'm sure that the technique will be realized once on earth.
And then it's very probable that humanity in the past already had time-travellers as guests, either incognito simply because interested in history, anthropology, culture (?),
or time-travellers who actively secretly interferred to manipulate the timeline, and make history happen as it has happened in 3000000 years history of humanity, or even in 3000000000 yers of history of earth.

And it's even more likely that it has been achieved by some another intelligent alien civilizations in the Universe. And alien guests appearing on earth in the past, the present and the future would be very realistic, then.

Please don't forget the first sentence. All this supposes that time-travel IS POSSIBLE. None of it is matches if time-travel is impossible.

Look at www.johntitor.com
there a time traveller from 2036 accuratly explains why paradoxes dont happen.

While i have trouble believing he is a time traveller (its a bit of an open question)
i dont have any trouble with his explanation of how time works.

Either hes a lunatic(unlikely) or very very intelligent and knows his stuff and has a hidden adgenda for reasons of debate on the internet.

However,we will know whether time travel is possible and whether john titor really was a time traveller in 2 years.

According to him there is gonna be waco type events every month or so in 2004 which lead to america civil war in 2005,
so at least by the middle of 2006 we will know that we better get prepaired for the other main event in 2015 when russia launches most of its nukes all over the place.

Right now it dont seem to be feasable,but we will see.

Personally i hope to god he is wrong and/or he was not a time traveller,i cant take any comfort in finding out he is right and celebrating the notion of time travel.

There wont be any celebration at all,in fact if i find out hes right ill invest in a stockpile of food and water and build a shelter,im not gonna be going "yay time travel is possible" if them news reports reveal his predictions
im going to be saying "shit,shit,shit,this is terrible,shit ive gotta prepare"
the fact he was a time traveller means fuck all to me when that someone from the future has just basically told you half the planet is gonna get blown up.

@doom

Can we imagine that there is any other alternative way to know the future?

Would it be feasable to simulate the present and the future step by step in a supercomputer, like a climate or a weather simulation?

Of course the result would be have reliability decreasing the more far it is in the future.
And the computer model would need very precise and huge knowledge about present, especially about the character of key economists and politicians, and other categories of leaders.

Are economic, social, political events really random,
or do they follow a rational logic, so subject to possible modelling in functions and equations by a computer program???

Obviously there is a portion of random. An earthquake or something like SARS may have deep economic impact, and is absolutely unpredictable.

.

Nobody could ever timetravel because the journey through light would leave nothing on the otherside, no universe, no dimensions, nothing.Timetravel would unbalance the very nature of our universe and other universes alike.

According to mr.titor his unit moves through time not space,he said we would be correct to assume if you moved through space with it that youd no longer be on the planet.

Moving through time alone,no problem,he accuratly described the distortion and how it only is instantanous to where you end up however from your relative point of view it takes you 1 hour to move 10 years,he said a device checks the gravity around it to locate you in free space im guessing,and to keep divergence from this world line to the next at a minimum.

I think it makes great sci-fi although maybe thats all it is,you should look into it as its interesting,even as entertainment value it is one of the most interesting things i have seen on the web
HONEST this struck a chord.

I cant say to you i believe it,im sorry the rational part of my thinking cant accept it any more than i can accept god,i dont believe in god either.

However to disprove or prove is difficult,especially to the lay person,in a court of law with all evidence handed and a good lawyer id imagine this area would come unamously undecided
while everyone will agree nobody believes it.

As a lawyer id remind the jury that personal belief has nothing to do with evidence and proof.

Its the same thing if you took "god" to court,apparently god is imagined although the evidence can be said as the universe,it would certainly come out undecided.

Thats what happens when anything imaginary is invented.

For instance i cannot prove the afterlife does or does not exist untill after the fact,which im sorry to say means i can only prove it when im dead,dont do you much good.

In john titors story after the fact will be after 2005,2008 and ultimatly 2015.

Timetravel would still react with spacetime.

Actually from my UFO research, time travel is impossible as many have prooved, but using the type of dimensions we are using now.

What happens if i walk into a time machine go back 5 seconds then kill myself before i walk into the time machine :confused: :m:

Originally posted by moving
What happens if i walk into a time machine go back 5 seconds then kill myself before i walk into the time machine :confused: :m:

According to titor nothing happens to YOU on YOUR worldline,you have just killed the other you in another worldline.

He descibes the universe as a whole as being a multiverse,but more from the point of the big bang,like all physical probabilities exist within each worldline from that point.

One worldline exist where you are dead,he says theres no possible way of travelling in time on the same worldline,theres always a minimal % of what he calls "divergence" in other words the time you enter is the past of your worldline with certain divergence=difference.

A 100% divergence might suggest there is no earth,or things are so different they are nothing like where you came from.

Basically travelling to the past yeilds NO effect on YOUR future,you are only changing the future of an alternate history.

So yes under this hypothesis you could quiet easily kill your younger self/prevent yourself being born.

Although these theories predate mr.titor by about 20 years,its fairly old news to me,but might sound impressive talking to a lay person (no offence to lay people im technically one myself).

Although more recently the parallel worlds idea has become more possible,it started out fairly tongue in cheek but does explain certain things,id say the true scientists in this field of expertise are cut 60/40,60% believe this is how things are,while the other 40% are either not sure or think theres more to it/dont believe it.

Time travel is at least in theory possible,and if many histories/multiverse is interconnected it at least makes it plausable when dealing with paradoxes.

Ill go as far to say that time travel is actually natural.

Its like saying its unnatural to fly a plane,while this could be considered correct,it dont break physical law.

If time travel dont break physical laws,then the debate over if we do it or not may aswell be cancelled out,as you could say everything infront of you is not natural.

Would a laptop computer seem normal,possible,natural 200 years ago,no chance anyone would believe such a device could exist,perhaps they would even debate the physics.

Remember a computer only works on the basis of physical theory not really feasable till the beginning of last century.

We make new discoveries all the time,right round the corner from us that can change the way we percieve space and time.

Originally posted by MrMynomics
Timetravel would still react with spacetime.

Id like to point out that most people like you and probably 99% the people who look at his story argue it in the offence,attempting to prove its a hoax,hes a liar.

However the defence can be just as strong or stronger,you make a bad lawyer,or maybe youd make a bad laywer on the defence.

Mr.titor says he is not all that well up on physics or describing how it works.

His defence says "would you expect someone who flys a plane to know everything about aerodynamics and the inner working of a plane"

this argument is quiet strong,his knowledge of time travel may just rest on his knowledge of the hows and why's it came about with just a limited understanding of physics.

Its easy for the offence to then say "well thats convenient"

bad argument

In defence i would call upon people who fly planes and what knowledge they have and dont have,i would prove from that
that some of the people who fly planes have limited understanding of inner workings,but possibly more so on the history of how planes came about.

Id argue that mr.titor has seen the invention in his lifetime with the actual date of the invention in 2034.

While people who fly planes may know limited knowledge,they would certainly know more if it
a)all happened in there lifetime
and
b)the main device invented only 2 years prior to him time traveling.

The offence would stress he should therefore know more

Weak argument

The time period of mr.titors knowledge would be more relavent in longer periods of time,perhaps thats why he did know quiet alot

At this point the offence would probably attempt to call up people in the know that deal with "theories" to debunk anything titor has said

As the defence i would say that the knowledge of what a man has may not prevent or increase his ability to do his job.

In other words id argue that just because someone dont know every detail about the device dont mean he dont know how to use it.

Id also stress that mr.titor never said he invented the device and should not be expected to know how it works in any extreme detail any more than a lay person on the street wearing a watch knows how there watch works,i know how to operate a watch but ask me how it works and id be stumped,but maybe i know certain things but not necessarily accuratly.

Why hasnt he got any actual photos of the time machine, all he has is drawings.

Originally posted by MrMynomics
Why hasnt he got any actual photos of the time machine, all he has is drawings.

No he did,at anomalies

see:

http://www.anomalies.net/time_travel/PT5.jpg

http://www.anomalies.net/time_travel/fetch3.jpg

http://www.anomalies.net/time_travel/fetch4.jpg

http://www.anomalies.net/time_travel/PT4.jpg

http://www.anomalies.net/time_travel/PT3.jpg

the ibm computer
http://www.anomalies.net/time_travel/51101.jpg

Main link

http://www.anomalies.net/time_travel/john.html

I'm quite astonished about the time-travel machine of John Titos being powered by microsingularities.

In that case how were these micro-singularities created?

Natural origin and captured in space?


Created by charging from another source of energy, a thermonuclear reactor for instance?

How can the machine be lon-term stable?
The singularity could absorb gradually atomes from other components of the machine, which could then defect?

Technically, we're travelling through time right now. The earth is moving, and when you move, time slows down when compared to another speed (static space). So ever since the earth has been moving, we've been slowly travelling through time. We would only notice a difference though, ,if we compared now, to the time out in space where something is moving at a different speed. So yes, it is possible.

Originally posted by zira
I'm quite astonished about the time-travel machine of John Titos being powered by microsingularities.

In that case how were these micro-singularities created?

Natural origin and captured in space?


Created by charging from another source of energy, a thermonuclear reactor for instance?

How can the machine be lon-term stable?
The singularity could absorb gradually atomes from other components of the machine, which could then defect?

CERN is the place where time travel device is supposed to be developed,which makes sense as in my opinion CERN and GE are the only people id think of capable of doing it.

He says CERN find something out when there large hadron collider goes online.

According to CERN the LHC goes online in 2007.

He did predict certain things 6 months and 2 years before CERN or anyone else developed them.

In other words the seeds are being sown for time travel as we speak at CERN,this can be classed as the first year,
so according to him in 2034 CERN and GE have developed the device you see in the pictures.

I must admit im not so sure about the physics as he explains it,and the device could seem fishy.

Theres still something that bothers me about the whole thing,maybe its fear that its the real deal,ive said on many occasion that NOBODY would want to believe this is all true.

I suggest you look at these pages:

this one came out 6 months after john left
http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/2001/split/558-2.html


and this one 2 years
http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/2003/632.html


He did mention technology relating directly or indirectly to this

If Moores law hold up, barring any WWIII, by 2036, we should have a 40 petabyte hard drive in a 1024 128-bit processors motherboard running atleast 100GHz with raw memory of 512 GB.

That should be enough power to have your personal AI.

The 1024 x 128bit computer of year 2036 will be a nano-computer size of a coffee-cup,
no keyboard, no mouse, no TFT,

The computer will be integrated in sort of a helmet which you put on your head for use.

You will control the computer with EEG from your brain,
the computer will render information to you by ear-phones and by a semi-transparent plasma-visor in front of your eyes.

Maybe that the computer will be powered not with a hydrogen-capsule, but with a small quantity of milk you must fill in before you start it.

And maybe the computer will NOT produce heat and noise of fans while running,
but some bad-smelling liquid.
At the end you can then put that liquid into the toilet.

And the computer will certainly be not need a hard-disc.

Originally posted by zira
In that case how were these micro-singularities created?


You don't create microsingularities, silly, you catch them! Duh! ..............:p

Probably with a butterfly net.

Originally posted by passive observer
If Humans could time travel from future to present then we would have another tourist industry.

Where do you think all those UFO's come from?

They have a rule: DON'T INTERFERE WITH THE PAST!!! JUST OBSERVE!!!

oh well, a lot is falling in place rigth now :)

Originally posted by MrMynomics
Nobody could ever timetravel because the journey through light would leave nothing on the otherside, no universe, no dimensions, nothing.Timetravel would unbalance the very nature of our universe and other universes alike.

This would be the case DURING the travelling itself yes.

They should be verry carefull with creating these 'black holes' since they have an akward reputation of sucking their surroundings in them, no?

:) LOL

as the news brakes today we have an unusual happening over at the CERN lab: @ the place where it's suppose to be there's a great big hole in the ground, this mistery is mind bogling! What happened?

ROFLOL

I always found this arguement to be immpossible so iwanna see what u guy can come up with.
(considering time travel is possible)
If i go back in time and kill my grandfather, than since my grandfather doesnt exsist, i wouldnt exsist,so my grandfather would exsist again, because if hesdead i couldnt have gone back in time 2 kill him.
If u find this story confusing its basiclly saying that u cant kill ur grandfather, because if he didnt exsist u wouldnt exsist, and if u didnt exsist u couldnt have gone back in time 2 kill him. If u ca find a way out of this, please let me no.

Ok, consider this possibility. What if you could reverse everything that is happening in the universe down to the most minute detail. Let's also suppose that this reversal goes back one hundred years from 2004 to 1904.

So what you would have is not a parallel universe, but an isometry of the past. So another words you are still in the same universe and techniqually you are in the year 2104, but everything is actually reversed to exactly the same form as 1904 not only on earth but everywhere in the universe!!!

Was time reversed? At this point it may depend upon what you are talking about, but there are a few tricky problems with this one. If I go inside a time machine how can you reverse me and the materials that make up the time machine? One solution is to have a field which produces a quantum copy of everything that entered the machine to go out of it. Furthermore if you reverse time things would happen in the space that the machine occupies so things would have to be able to occupy the same space without interacting with that space.

One way around this is to go into outerspace which has the least interference and then reverse time and hope this doesn't change the 'past' to much! Then when things have been reversed enough, you can leave the time machine and visit your surroundings.

Another possibilty is that you may be able to actually go back in time and say kill your grand father and still exist but you might merely cease to have a genesis, that is a quantum appreance of you appears in the past. This may seem counterintuitive but so is teleportation.

Why is everybody that brings up a grandfather paradox so willing to kill their grandfather?

Imagine it like this, one day you might be a grandfather, do you want the son of your offspring coming back to bump you off? I think not.

You should note that the human mind is a great thing, since it is a "Virtual Machine" or at least has the capacity to act as a Virtual Machine. This is why we have the capacity to problem solve, why programmers are able to realise how the code of a program runs before it runs on through a real programming language interpreter and of course why we have the capacity to turn back the clock with our mind and envisage all the possibilities.

The thing is with your explaination of reversal of 100 years back by going forwards isn't something new, I've seen it crop up a few times and even I at one point thought of it too. If such a system was possible it could allow access to the same timeline, however if you from a future point were to cause any change in that timeline you would end up with a parallel.

You have to understand that matter is made up of string, and the suggestion for why this string exists is to apply that matter through multiple universe generating a multiworlds effect of multiple reoccurances generating solidity. If you generate a deviation you cause something similar to a Particle-Waveformation Duality (which is usually discussed as "Schrodingers Cat"), The normal state of the universe would be in particles however your interaction and creation of a paradox would generate the particle to act as a waveformation and in such a state it creates a "fuzzy" vector of existance as appose to being an outright particle.

Very small alterations within the universe could potentially allow for this "fuzzy" vector to coexist, considering that their would be alot more string defining the "Mean" of the universe. However you could question that if the nature of chaos was to begin to creep into the actual metaphysical outlay the very substance of your percievable universe could be threatened if not anticipated correctly.

What I mean here is that if you were to keep going back 1 minute before you first managed to generate a paradox and alter something in that universe in comparison to the previous one, you would generate so many differences within a localised space that eventually the universe you see would disappear into nothingness, yet still exist.

However this is all conjecture until either we as a human race grow up enough to be able to throw our differences aside for progress or we just give up looking to answer such things and kill each other like primatives.

What is a Quantum Copy?

If past is like a Page of a Published book, then you can only read it but not change it. You may scribble on one page, but the story does not change in the next page page. You may copy a few pages in a separate binder and add your own twist to the story - but that is a whole different story...

And the future? not yet written or more like not yet read....

It is impossible to alter the past. We can only alter the future, because a timetraveler can not meet his/her self in the past. Somebody going to the past gets problems with nature laws wich alter the body into chaos. Some people can vision the future and past in a meditational state or just see what is possible related on what is happening.

:rolleyes:

Shakespeare, that is what would be the case if there wasn't parallel universes.

The universe is a funny thing, it's suggested that the instance of the big bang was the universe rolling out multiple different eventuum's that all existed at the same point in space at that beginning point. It's suggested that the universe had already defined what would be our destiny, however any alteration to what our destiny would be would create alterations and shifts in no more a prominant place than a star, where without shift the universe would not have light.

So I suggest that a timetraveller could meet themselves from a different universe and in doing so increase light in the universe.

Stryder, interresting! Do we live also mirrored in one or more parallel universes? I believe in the big bang, but aren't the eventuums saperated from eachother or are they still connected with eachother? Is a blackhole an eventuum of a beginning new planet? If so, we can travel in time between them.

Do you believe in reincarnation? If there is some kind of reincarnation of species, where will the spirits go if there is a relation to time and appearance? Will the reincarnated spirits go back or further in time? Are they staying on their birth planet or will they go to an other planet?

I think life is connected with a progressive force between universes, that's why we live. What happens when i meet myself in the future, i haven't met myself in the past?

If there are connections with parallel universes via the subconciousness, that would explain alot about spiritual sides of consiousness.

I don't think it is possible for a timetraveller to meet his/her parallel self, only spiritual. Perhaps it can be in a further technological state.

:bugeye:

Changing future paradox vs. changing past paradox...

>It is impossible to alter the past. We can only alter the future, because a timetraveler can not meet his/her self in the past. Somebody going to the past gets problems with nature laws wich alter the body into chaos. Some people can vision the future and past in a meditational state or just see what is possible related on what is happening.

Seeing the future isn't it just similar to altering the past, and create similar paradoxes?

Suppose some people in Germany hat "seen" in 1919 what crimes against humanity a certain Adolf Schickelgruber and his gang would commit 20 years ahead, and then successfully shoot Adolf in his heart or his head,.... to cancel this future.
:eek:

We have the same paradox as for the timetraveller doing this? So, either the paradox theory is wrong, and seeing and doing works... or nothing works due to the paradox.
:confused:

Where as for timetravel to the past, there is the "emergency exit" of the "parallel universe theory",
this solution cannot apply to "seeing and changing".

My opinion is that the paradox theory is wrong.
:)

What is the paradox? It is a true story of being we, i and them. It's related to what? What is the being of state of us? We work for the future, no matter what it takes.

:cool:

What is the paradox? It is a true story of being we, i and them. It's related to what? What is the being of state of us? We work for the future, no matter what it takes.

:cool:

The Present, Future and Past exist contemporaneously. Time is only Relative to the observer. If you take a reference of time such as a photograph, that instant and all periods in time will always exist. The only thing that changes is the observer. This is proof that the future is always present yet dynamic. The past is always present yet fixed.

ok question....... since no one has ever time traveled how do we know for fact that we could not interact with one's self in the past or future........laws are alway broken!!

ok question....... since no one has ever time traveled how do we know for fact that we could not interact with one's self in the past or future........laws are alway broken!!

If you see yourself in the past then you will disrupt your future and the future you would start vibrating between different realities. Because any little change you effect on your past will have rippling effects through time.

The Present, Future and Past exist contemporaneously. Time is only Relative to the observer.

Feynman said it best in one of his lectures. We really can't even move freely in the present, much less the past. If you and I are standing in the same room and one of us shoots the other, the bullet doesn't strike the present... it strikes the future. Think of it like this: suppose the sun exploded. Right now. The sun is about 150 km from us and light travels at 299,792.458 km/sec. It will take a full 8 minutes for us to discover that the sun exploded. We don't even know what's happening now, how can we hope to travel to the past?

Feynman also points out that particles move forward and can have "cones" in which they affect other particles... since, due to the limitations of the speed of light, a particle cannot travel on the "now" plane, but has to also move forward as it moves toward another particle on the "now" plane. Much like that bullet. You shoot me, but it impacts me in the future, the bullet fires from the past. It cannot be fired and impacted in the "now."

<img src="http://www.lucasforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=1433763">

In this image (from Feynman's lecture), "o" is the "here & now" while "x" is the "now" plane. Regions 2 & 3 represent cones of influence in which a particle can travel from the past to intersect o or from o to a point in the future. Region 1 represents those regions that a particle cannot affect.

My explanation is very basic and novice, to be sure, but it is representative why I think time travel occurs only forward, never backward. The past no longer exists. All particles have departed. Now if you consider multiverse explanations, a form of pseudo-time travel might be possible in which you travel to an identical universe that is "running a bit later" than our own. But how do you get there... the next nearest universe is something like 10^26 km away.

If you see yourself in the past then you will disrupt your future and the future you would start vibrating between different realities. Because any little change you effect on your past will have rippling effects through time.

What's the math behind that hypothesis? :cool:

What's the math behind that hypothesis? :cool:

To travel into the past you have to travel faster than the speed of light. Light travels at a speed of 700 million miles an hour. If you can bend the fabric of space and not have to travel in a linear mode resulting in reduced distance thus you have just traveled into the past. It is possible I am recording the documentary that explains it in about an hour. It is showing on the Science Channel at 2:30 am central time US on 12/24/2004,

Wrong. To travel into the past has nothing to do with the speed of light, this is what people seem to get wrong every time.

Currently it's not possible to travel at the speed of light, let alone travel into the past. A suggested hypothesis does involve a spacial fold, however folding is like taking a "Side step" and therefore means moving from one timepoint to another without and lightspeed being necessary. However such spacial folds would cause a chain reaction of paradoxes and universal alterations in relationship to new physical boundaries being created.

It's suggested that if someone was to generate the mathematics to move from one timepoint to another, then the maths would only be correct for one journey, because straight after that paradox the maths would be made obslete by the universal changes that would insue through a Butterfly Effect. Therefore for such events to be created in the future it would suggest that science would attempt to keep the timeline and what occurs in it as "Pure as possible" or as most know it, as "Predestined as possible" just to make the mathematics easier.

However there is an alterantive hypothesis that suggests that perhaps creating as much chaos as possible would allow the universe to "Exist", since it would allow for all the physical rules that allows our universe to be what it is. (Basing the understanding on both Relativity and Causality. Where to exist doesn't necessarily mean we would exist without making our universe exist in the future, or something to that effect.)

To travel into the past you have to travel faster than the speed of light.


Which is fine for a particle of light, since photons don't have mass, but for anything else, objects with mass, you have to consider the increase in mass as the object gets nearer and nearer to c.

If you can bend the fabric of space and not have to travel in a linear mode resulting in reduced distance thus you have just traveled into the past.


Wrong. You haven't traveled at the speed of light, you've only cheated and cut a corner. Picture a figure-eight race track and, instead of continuing on course straight ahead at the intersection you turn left instead. You didn't increase your speed to get to the finish line, only changed the route.

How does one 'bend' the fabric of space? Is space bendable?

How does one 'bend' the fabric of space? Is space bendable?

According to SR it is and that was shown to be true when light originating from distant stars was bent around the sun during a solar eclipse. So it was thought that if light travels through the fabric of space then if space is bent light will also bend.
From what I understand from the new Theory worm holes are everywhere. The only problem is that they are smaller than the Atom. So If you can access the wormhole you would have to use energy to enlarge it until it would stretch from the size of smaller than atom to cover vast expenses of space.

I always found this arguement to be immpossible so iwanna see what u guy can come up with.
(considering time travel is possible)
If i go back in time and kill my grandfather, than since my grandfather doesnt exsist, i wouldnt exsist,so my grandfather would exsist again, because if hesdead i couldnt have gone back in time 2 kill him.
If u find this story confusing its basiclly saying that u cant kill ur grandfather, because if he didnt exsist u wouldnt exsist, and if u didnt exsist u couldnt have gone back in time 2 kill him. If u ca find a way out of this, please let me no.

its a never ending circle......

I haven't read the entire thread, but I am liking what the last few posts have said...

unless it has been said before...

the way out of changing past-future problem is multiple universes. Chance basically - every "decision" or possible different choices occurs in a different universe.

Flip a coin. in the infinity of universe, 50% of the time, it will land heads up, 50% of the time, it will land tails up. You are in just one of the universes. (they are not transversable) they are just emergent from chance.

Go back in time, kill grandfather - you cannot possible kill your own grandfather - you would never have done it. so, you kill the grandfather of yourself in another universe.

David Deutsch - "The Fabric of Reality"

Is time itself fractal? Is each instant in time its own interation? Does every instant that ever was still exist just behind one another? If in fact time is fractal it would mean that all time exists simultaneously, past present and future as one eternal now. The only thing that differentiates one time from another is point of reference. What is our point of reference? Well, to me it is me, to you it is you. We all have our own individual points of reference. Time fractals could explain all sorts of phenomenon such as alternate universes and dark matter. In fact there really are not alternative universes at all. It is all the same universe there are just points of reference. The reason we cannot travel back and forth through time is because we cannot become a different point of reference. If that were possible we could then we could traverse any time or become anyone else.

There really is no such thing as past, present, and future. There is just an eternal now. So everything that has happened, is happening and will happen is happening now all at the same instant. Also what happens in any time period effects every other time period, so when ever something happens in one it affects all the others. That is what is so powerful about free will because we can consciously change our present thus affecting everything from that point on.

Is time itself fractal? Is each instant in time its own interation? Does every instant that ever was still exist just behind one another? If in fact time is fractal it would mean that all time exists simultaneously, past present and future as one eternal now. The only thing that differentiates one time from another is point of reference. What is our point of reference? Well, to me it is me, to you it is you. We all have our own individual points of reference. Time fractals could explain all sorts of phenomenon such as alternate universes and dark matter. In fact there really are not alternative universes at all. It is all the same universe there are just points of reference. The reason we cannot travel back and forth through time is because we cannot become a different point of reference. If that were possible we could then we could traverse any time or become anyone else..

You can not become anyone else you can only obtain another reference in time. When you move out of the present you will not exist in the future. You will exist in the current past.

For every action there is a reaction. Not only are we in motion, we are reciving and sending matter at the speed of light. This sending and reciving is a focal point in space time and all you have to do to travel forward or backword in time is to ajust your focal point. This can be achieved by amplifying the Strong Nuclear Force.

There really is no such thing as past, present, and future. There is just an eternal now. So everything that has happened, is happening and will happen is happening now all at the same instant. Also what happens in any time period effects every other time period, so when ever something happens in one it affects all the others. .

What happens in the Future will not effect the past.

That is what is so powerful about free will because we can consciously change our present thus affecting everything from that point on.

Time is only reletive to the observer. To the observer at all times the future is dynamic and the past is static.