....haunting, contemplative, embrosial or downright heart breaking. In the last century so much has been engraved, so much has been set in stone through the lense of a camera and every now and then a picture is taken which stops most of its viewers in their tracks.

One example of a such picture for me is of the burning monk. The self immolation of Thich Quang Duc.

http://www.vietnampix.com/bilder/fire5e2.jpg

http://www.buddhistinformation.com/thqudc.jpg

On June 11, 1963, Thich Quang Duc, a Buddhist monk from the Linh-Mu Pagoda in Hue, Vietnam, burned himself to death at a busy intersection in downtown Saigon, Vietnam.. Eye witness accounts state that Thich Quang Duc and at least two fellow monks arrived at the intersection by car, Thich Quang Duc got out of the car, assumed the traditional lotus position and the accompanying monks helped him pour gasoline over himself. He ignited the gasoline by lighting a match and burned to death in a matter of minutes. David Halberstam, a reporter for the New York Times covering the war in Vietnam, gave the following account:

"I was to see that sight again, but once was enough. Flames were coming from a human being; his body was slowly withering and shriveling up, his head blackening and charring. In the air was the smell of burning human flesh; human beings burn surprisingly quickly. Behind me I could hear the sobbing of the Vietnamese who were now gathering. I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think…. As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him."


source (http://www.buddhistinformation.com/self_immolation.htm)


Another picture which always manages to crawl under my skin is.

http://img.thefreedictionary.com/wiki/9/96/SharbatGula1984.JPG

Her name is Sharbat Gula. She's the married mother of three girls and living in a remote ethnic Pushtun region of Afghanistan with her family. National Geographic is keeping her exact location secret to protect her privacy.

This is highly revered image which is just amazing. It is sad that living in such a harsh land has taken a toll on most of her piercing beauty.

source (http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/mar/girl/)

Another picture which always disturbes me is

http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/Vietimages/VCadams.jpg

General Nguyen Ngoc Loan excuting a viet cong prisoner.

But when Brig. Gen. Nguyen Ngoc Loan raised his pistol on Feb. 1, 1968, extended his arm and fired a bullet through the head of the prisoner, who stood with his hands tied behind his back, the general did so in full view of an NBC cameraman and an Associated Press photographer.

And when the film was shown on television and the picture appeared on the front pages of newspapers around the world, the images created an immediate revulsion at a seemingly gratuitous act of savagery that was widely seen as emblematic of a seemingly gratuitous war.

The photograph, by Eddie Adams, was especially vivid, a frozen moment that put a wincing face of horror on the war. Taken almost at once with the squeeze of the trigger, the photo showed the prisoner, unidentified and wearing black shorts and a plaid shirt, in a final grimace as the bullet passed through his brain. Close examination of the photo, which won a Pulitzer Prize in 1969, showed the slug leaving his head.

source (http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/Vietimages/vcexec.htm)

I don't know what I could say about this image that hasn't been said or what the image itself can't portray.



So what are some of the most chilling, shocking, awe inspiring etc etc images or vidoes have you seen?

First picture has always filled me with shadenfreude- a monk on fire for his stupid idealism.
Good for him.

Second picture of the Green Eyed Afghani Girl- a haunting tribute to the filthy waste of the ignorant. They found her recently, yes? Her cheeks were bloated and scratched and her home was pregnant with children that have sucked the life out of her.
Let that picture remind you why it is the poor will always be poor.

What I have always found haunting: There is a surrealist film called "The Andalusian Dog" that opens up with a scene of a human eye getting cut in half with a knife.
Like, Kewl!

There is also this provocative painter who painted the macabre and disfigured popes, among other things- Mr. Bacon.
Took me a while:
http://www.francis-bacon.cx/popes/figurewithmeat.html

The nicest one I could find, if you care to:
http://www.queer-arts.org/bacon/bacon.html

First picture has always filled me with shadenfreude- a monk on fire for his stupid idealism.
Good for him.

Its not really why he did it, it is more: how he did it. Thats what scares me. To have unreleting flames rip through your every fiber of existence.....how could he muster the courage? Such passion, such devotion for one's cause and one's ideals disturbs me...those people scare me.

I just can't understand how much discipline he must have fostered inside to not even let forth a miniscule squeal while pure energy wasted him away. Every time I look at this picture (partly because it is on the cover of Rage against the machine's debut album) it manages to give me goosebumps.


Let that picture remind you why it is the poor will always be poor.

Again it is what is in the picture that is captivating. Those eyes are a gift, a genetic gift whihc I presume no one around her ever cared to appreciate. Everything, from her expression, her face, her eyes to the composition, is just....mesmerizing

What I have always found haunting: There is a surrealist film called "The Andalusian Dog"

Un chien andalou 1929?

http://www.transmissionfilms.com/media/stills/avantgarde/12.jpg

As for Francis Bacon...I am going to have to further look into him.

Sorry so large... doesn't quite have the same effect any other way.
Atomic test on the island of Mururoa
http://home.deds.nl/~rolandvb/Bombs/Nuclear_Mururoa.jpg

Yeah dude but some of those pictures are some of the greatest pictures of all time. But the afghan woman is a fantasic shot. Just look at her eyes they are amazing.

Yeah dude but some of those pictures are some of the greatest pictures of all time. But the afghan woman is a fantasic shot. Just look at her eyes they are amazing.

Hence the reason they are here.


Here is another highly disturbing picture I found.


http://www.fotografya.gen.tr/issue-12/fotoetik/etikdata/pulitzer.JPG

The photographer who took this picture killed himself from all the torment of taking this picture and all the heart breaking sadness he saw.

This is a picture of a vulture waiting for that Sudanese child to die from starvation.

This is a picture of a vulture waiting for that Sudanese child to die from starvation.

I wonder if the vulture waited for the boy to die? It's a commonly known fact nowadays that all scavengers will predate when the situation calls for it. Such as a weak yet living victim.

Poor little blighter. Why didn't someone kill that vulture and feed it to the boy. Would serve the fucking scavenger right.


Edit: And why the hell did the photographer kill himself? Fucking pussy. If he felt so strongly about the heartache, he should have done something. Anything. He may not have been able to save everyone, but he sure as hell didn't do any of them any good by commiting suicide. Bah. Fucking cowards.

A little judgmental, don't you think?

Edit: And why the hell did the photographer kill himself? Fucking pussy. If he felt so strongly about the heartache, he should have done something. Anything. He may not have been able to save everyone, but he sure as hell didn't do any of them any good by commiting suicide. Bah. Fucking cowards.


After taking the picture he ran the vulture away and ran with the child in his arms back to the camp...it was too late for the child though.

For this picture he recieved many death threats for years on end because it opened peoples eyes up to the horrors of the world outside. He was told to be ashamed of himself for taking such a horrible picture.....years of that took a toll on him.

It is a pultizer prize winning picture which started a lot of charity work for Sudan....he should be proud of this picture despite it's heart wrenching content.

A little judgmental, don't you think?

Probably so. But, I don't agree with suicide. You have to agree that he could have helped had he not killed himself and instead dedicated himself to helping however he could.

Don't you think?

It is a pultizer prize winning picture which started a lot of charity work for Sudan....he should be proud of this picture despite it's heart wrenching content.

I understand. My offense was more at his cowardice in suicide than regarding the picture.

Sorry to be harsh, but I really can't stand suiciders. It's weak. A knee-jerk reaction, I'm sure, but that's the way I see it.

Yes good point that is why they are there...

invert_nexus

I am convinced that it is every person's right to commit suicide, and I do not believe it is ever a craven action, though it must often be irresponsible (as you've described this case to be).

Staying alive would've been a more dutiful action, I do suppose, but I do not suppose that we can understand the photographer and his lot.
I will not judge him. Really, I do not think you meant to, either. Revulsion is understandable.

You're right, I have no place to judge him. No right. But, I wouldn't allow myself to fall prey to such a thing (or so I'd like to think). As I said, he (I) could have turned that anguish to the pursuit of saving those he could rather than selfishly ending his (my) life.

I suppose it is everyone's right to commit suicide and perhaps they should even be encouraged to do so. The world doesn't need more quitters.

Personally, the only suicide I find acceptable is in case of debilitating disease. But, I really have no right to judge.

... ug this thread is diguesting

The photographer who took this picture killed himself from all the torment of taking this picture and all the heart breaking sadness he saw.

This is a picture of a vulture waiting for that Sudanese child to die from starvation.
Ok, now that is disturbing.

They always tend to show you the children in garbage dumps or sucking on diapers, but something like that at least makes you...stop.

Did the photographer really kill himself? How would you know he killed himself for *that* reason? Did he leave a note saying so?

Ok, now that is disturbing.

*blink*

Wasn't expecting that.
(You're probably worried about the poor vulture choking on such stringy child-meat? Kidding.)

I'm glad you ressurected this thread. It needs more additions. Come on. Sargentlard. What other horrors do you have to show us?

Wasn't expecting that.


Ever seen Magritte's juxtapositions?
Disturbing in that sense.

You're probably worried about the poor vulture choking on such stringy child-meat? Kidding
If its any consolotion, there's a charitble you in the background who'd actually kill that vulture to feed the boy.

Ever seen Magritte's juxtapositions?
Disturbing in that sense.

Yes. I have.
Or rather, I'd seen many of his works before without knowing the artist. I've just reacquainted myself with them.
And I don't understand you. Is it disturbing in the sense that there is 'something wrong with this picture'? That you don't look to see vultures predating on humans and so it's disturbing in the sense that it is not what one would think to be 'natural'? (Ludicrous, I know. Little can be more natural than a vulture and it's carrion.)

If its any consolotion, there's a charitble you in the background who'd actually kill that vulture to feed the boy.

I suppose you'd rather have them placed into a pit and allowed to fight it out for survival? Winner eats the loser?

First picture has always filled me with shadenfreude- a monk on fire for his stupid idealism.
Good for him.

Even so. You got to admit that it's an amazing thing. The will power that it took to do that without flinching.

I suppose you'd rather have them placed into a pit and allowed to fight it out for survival? Winner eats the loser?

And I suppose you'd rather rescue him and have him grow to breed a million more like him?
Is it disturbing in the sense that there is 'something wrong with this picture'? That you don't look to see vultures predating on humans and so it's disturbing in the sense that it is not what one would think to be 'natural'?
Presto.

Its usually a pasty human, all rough and stuff with his rifle, grr, with his eye on the animal.
Not the other way round.
Becuase you know, we're not animals.

Even so. You got to admit that it's an amazing thing. The will power that it took to do that without flinching.

I don't think so at all. It is our Western *interpretation* that this is about "will power".

I even doubt the monk thought about his act as "ending himself".

It is the stuffy European, the "concerned" American who would go out and kill himself in public, "for an idea", "to protest". Fucking egomaniac victims.


Did anyone ask that monk why he did it?
What we have here is the report of the photographer, what the *photographer* saw, not what the *monk* thought.

What happened to the pictures? :confused:

Water,

It doesn't matter if the monk thought of it as 'ending himself' or not. The point is that being burned alive has got to be an excruciating experience and he didn't even flinch. That takes a strength of mind.

What he killed himself for is secondary as far as my point goes. I'm unsure what his reasons were. I'd think that his reasons would be the oppression of buddhism by the communists. I suppose I could google it. The answer has to be out there.

Anyway, I just spent some time looking up another group of suiciders with minimal success. There is a tribe of natives called the Kaiowas in the Brazilian rainforest that are constantly being forced off their land and into smaller and smaller reserves. These natives have some of the highest rates of suicide known. There is a song by Sepultura entitled Kaiowas dedicated to one particular village that committed mass suicide as a protest against their lands being taken. Unfortunately, I can't find an article detailing this on the web anywhere. I have found plenty talking about their high suicide rate and even one about a village that is threatening to commit mass suicide. This was in 1998. After the event Sepultura spoke of occurred.

Members of an Indian group in Brazil are threatening to commit mass suicide if authorities evict them from what they claim is their ancestral land, said a Brazilian Indian rights group. The story was published originally by CNN on August 26.
/.../
"Suicide has always been an option of the Guarani-Kaiowas,"...

http://www.stcecilia.br/pages/online/international/1998/03/p3.htm

There are also other occurrences of similar things happening in other parts of the world but I can't recall any particulars.

One very notable example would be the suicide bombers of muslim countries. Of course, they generally believe in taking people out with them, so it's not quite the same mentality.

I must admit that I agree with on the general thought process of the common suicider though. It's a violent and cowardly act in most instances.

But still. Burned alive without moving a muscle. Not a grunt. Groan. Whimper.
Shit.

Gendanken,

And I suppose you'd rather rescue him and have him grow to breed a million more like him?

I must admit that I'd likely fall victim to this philanthropic urge.
You know me.

Becuase you know, we're not animals.

We both know the truth. Animals and nothing more.
Damn fine animals, though. At least we can be.
So much potential.


Arkon,

What happened to the pictures?

Nothing. They're there.

And, while I'm at it, might as well add a picture.

http://img204.exs.cx/img204/6042/nuclearmururoa9kt.jpg

I don't remember where I picked this up exactly. I know it was from Stokes Penwalt. Think it's his avatar. But I don't recall the thread where he posted this.

This is Mururoa.
A pacific atoll.
France detonated some 178 nuclear bombs between 1966 and 1996 at Mururoa and nearby Fangataufa.

I don't recall which one this is. I think it was one of the later ones if I remember right. Maybe Stokes will happen by and can enlighten us. Either that or maybe I'll go digging and see if I can find where he originally posted this.

I must admit that I agree with on the general thought process of the common suicider though. It's a violent and cowardly act in most instances.

A lot of people who are too afraid to pull the trigger, who are too afraid to dash their brains against the rocks below, they console themselves thus. They call it a cowardly act. In most instances. He was not afraid to kill himself. His life was never his to begin with.

Why didn't someone kill that vulture and feed it to the boy. Would serve the fucking scavenger right.
What the fuck? Why?
That vulture's a soldier, he's on top of his game, he's exhibiting top of the line vulture attributes. While the child's clearly a miserable failure.
You remind me of the mother who takes the toy off the dirty kid with bandaids on his knees and gives it to the fat shiney kid just because he's throwing a tantrum.
The vulture deserves that child. He's earned his seat at this event. He's gone fucking hungry, you best believe that. But he made his way through the hard times in that harsh environment because he's a remarkable specimen.
If I was there and someone even tried to bury the child before the vulture got a taste, I'd kick them in the head.

Looking at that vulture fills my heart with joy, I'm not even kidding. It litterally gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. No I'm not focussing on the child's suffering, the vulture itself is so beautifully refreshing.
It's so honest compared to the delusional crap I'm barraged with all day everyday from humans.
He just sits there stoicly waiting for his meat to be prepared, he's done it a thousand times before, he's completely oblivious to your outrage, and if he could hear it and mentally grasp it he'd laugh at you for a while before being disgusted.
I'm glad animals can't understand us, understanding our smug ignorance when it comes to reality and noticing the pedestals we've decided to place ourselves on would be torturously irritating to endure.

Well. Looky looky. I've found a cookie.

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/3945/uca0lk.gif

And a link if you care to download the entire film. It's 159 megabytes.

http://epc.buffalo.edu/sound/mp3/sp/bunuel_luis/UN%20CHIEN%20ANDALOU.mpg

The picture of the burning monk gives me the creeps.

Seeing the picture invert_nexus posted reminded me of this video.
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=atomicbomb.wmv

Another picture which always disturbes me is

http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/Vietimages/VCadams.jpg

General Nguyen Ngoc Loan excuting a viet cong prisoner.



source (http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/Vietimages/vcexec.htm)

I don't know what I could say about this image that hasn't been said or what the image itself can't portray.



So what are some of the most chilling, shocking, awe inspiring etc etc images or vidoes have you seen?

I read that the guy doing the shooting knew his prisoner. He had raped and killed his wife and kids and so was taking his revenge. Still a very powerfull image though. I remember seeing it as a kid and it having a really strong effect on me. It was probably the first time i had ever seen an image of real death.

I actually heard the shooter had raped and killed the victims wife and kids.
I also heard that 2 days after shooting the victim the shooter won the lottery.

That movie with the atom bomb is amazing, it's truly frightening when the trees suddenly whiplash back, such power. Anyways, the gun that shot it was Atomic Anne, It's now located in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, It's massive. :eek:

I don't recall which one this is. I think it was one of the later ones if I remember right. Maybe Stokes will happen by and can enlighten us. Either that or maybe I'll go digging and see if I can find where he originally posted this.
Actually the one I posted was of Castle Romeo, which was an American test. :)

That's a French test. Which one it is I am not certain, but it looks like the Murorua Atoll in French Polynesia. That would have been around 1960-62.

This is Castle Romeo, the test that is depicted in my avatar:

http://www.temple.edu/history/images/bikini.jpg

Taken around 05:20, it was still pretty dark (although this is through a heavily filtered lens so even the sun would look dull brown) but the explosion presents a great contrast against the background. It also illuminates the clouds, and you can even see the columnar halo floating above the mushroom head in a perfectly symmetrical ring.

I think it's the most photogenic test they ever conducted. Operation Castle was conducted on the Bikini Atolls (part of the US Marshall Islands) in the spring and summer of 1954. The yield of the Romeo shot was 10.4 megatons, if I remember right. It was a "wet" hydrogen weapon with a U238 tamper.

Ugh, that vulture picture is... ugh.

What I have always found haunting: There is a surrealist film called "The Andalusian Dog" that opens up with a scene of a human eye getting cut in half with a knife.
Like, Kewl!
Aren't you a regular debaser.

It doesn't matter if the monk thought of it as 'ending himself' or not. The point is that being burned alive has got to be an excruciating experience and he didn't even flinch. That takes a strength of mind.

So we think.

But look: He has been doing all those Buddhist practices all his life, staring in the cups filled with water for hours and all that.

All his life, he was doing all sorts of things that would be "excrutiating" to us.

Burning himself was just another one of those "exercises".

He was conditioned, it took years of practice, into experiencing pain, and "not flinching".

To us, seeing only a tiny tiny bit of his practice, knowing a minuscule part of what his life was like and compare it to ours -- sure, it seems overwhelming to be burnt alive and not flinch. Oh how composed and controlled one must be! Bah.

It's not about control, it's about letting go of control.

Westerners don't flinch because they are controlling themselves.
Buddhists don't flinch because they have let go of all control.

You can calculate for yourself who is capabale of what to an outside observer looks like "enduring more".


What he killed himself for is secondary as far as my point goes. I'm unsure what his reasons were. I'd think that his reasons would be the oppression of buddhism by the communists. I suppose I could google it. The answer has to be out there.

Find it!

And I don't think it's secondary why he killed himself.


Anyway, I just spent some time looking up another group of suiciders with minimal success. There is a tribe of natives called the Kaiowas in the Brazilian rainforest that are constantly being forced off their land and into smaller and smaller reserves. These natives have some of the highest rates of suicide known. There is a song by Sepultura entitled Kaiowas dedicated to one particular village that committed mass suicide as a protest against their lands being taken. Unfortunately, I can't find an article detailing this on the web anywhere. I have found plenty talking about their high suicide rate and even one about a village that is threatening to commit mass suicide. This was in 1998. After the event Sepultura spoke of occurred.

As "a protest"? Who said that? CNN?

They killed themselves because they had nowhere to live. I think this is how they experienced their land being taken away.

They are like wild animals: Put a wild animal in captivity, and it will refuse to eat, eventually, it will die. In effect, we would call that "suicide".


One very notable example would be the suicide bombers of muslim countries. Of course, they generally believe in taking people out with them, so it's not quite the same mentality.

Of course it's not the same mentality!


I must admit that I agree with on the general thought process of the common suicider though. It's a violent and cowardly act in most instances.

I wouldn't say it is cowardly. I think it is unclear. It is an act of inconsistency.

Ugh, that vulture picture is... ugh.
Really? I'm quite surprised by people's reactions to that photo.
If I knew about that picture I would have used it to aid my arguments against compassion, as I think it's really hard to argue with.
I would have predicted that picture to have a sobering effect, rather than the effect it's having.

I now have to wonder what exactly are you thinking about when looking at that photo? Does it go beyond that particular individual child and your basic emotional reaction to it's state?
I can't imagine it does, as just a teency bit of thought after that initial reaction makes one shake their head and snap out of it. To me it seem's the vulture's there specifically to snap you out of it and remind you of the reality of the real world. And it plays it's part so well.
You can't stay mad or upset, at least i can't. If the vulture had a speach bubble "what the? This shouldn't be man.... I'm freaking out" I might be inclined to fear the universe is off it's rails. But no, quite the contrary, the vulture couldn't be calmer and more at ease with the situation. He reassures me that everything is a-ok.

If the vulture wasn't there I might lose my head, and experience a poorly thought out knee jerk reaction to the image of a familiar animal's suffering. I might put myself in his loose skin, and get upset thinking about what it would be like to be him blah blah blah.
Basically head off in irrelevent directions.
But the vulture's the pillar of common sense, and yes, it makes me feel warm and cosy. Like the feeling you get when you remember the world will inevitably burn to an unidentifyable crisp and it's matter will become one with the void of space.
The vulture just represents something so much greater than "look sad child make me sad". That's such a transparent, insignificant little thing. It's just a little behavioural trait we have left over from when it aided us in being successfull tribes of hominids(I won't even go into how it's been manipulated and exploited by religion).
The vulture is revealing the sheet music behind the universe if we look closely enough, it's our duty to acknowledge the majesty in that as we might be the only ones who can.
Interupting the vulture or shaking your fist at it is just petty in light of everything, sad even. Just the thought of that is seriously alot more depressing to me than the photo.

Like imagine if an oaf ran out and tackled martin luther king on the podium while making silly noises and goofing off just because he wanted to be on TV (not that I personally find that historical moment to be particularly significant, but I'm trying to help others relate to what I'm talking about).

I can't imagine why the vulture would add to one's ugh-factor???
What is the reasoning behind that?
I'm curious.

Stokes,

Actually the one I posted was of Castle Romeo, which was an American test.

Hmm. Coulda swore that I picked that up from you somewhere. Wonder where I got it then? Oh well.


Water,

It's not about control, it's about letting go of control.

You got a point with this. Much of transcendentalism is about giving up of the self. But even so. Still impressive.

And don't think that I'm idealizing him. Here is this guy who has this strength of will (I still say it takes strength of will to not react to pain) to do this but what good does he do with it? What good have any of them done with it? Sit around and contemplating nothingness. Really does a lot of good for the earth, doesn't it?

Find it!

Ok.
"In June 1963 Buddhist monk Quang Duc became famous when he was photographed setting himself alight in a suicide protest against the South Vietnamese government then under Ngo Dinh Diem."
So. It was a protest against the South. Not the North. Interesting.
He wasn't alone in his protest, either.
It seems that is was the in thing to do there for a while.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/31/newsid_2973000/2973209.stm

And I don't think it's secondary why he killed himself.

It is to the point that I was making.

They are like wild animals: Put a wild animal in captivity, and it will refuse to eat, eventually, it will die. In effect, we would call that "suicide".

But they're not wild animals. They're wild humans. Yes. Still animals. But more than animals. They have the ability to plan out a suicide. They talk about commiting suicide. They make statements that they will commit suicide if they don't get their lands back. The tone of the quotes from tribal members was one of protest.

I wouldn't say it is cowardly. I think it is unclear. It is an act of inconsistency.

It's cowardly because it's an assault on the living. An assault which can't be counterattacked. You can't attack the dead. Suicide is getting the final word.

I just don't see the big deal about Sharbat - what, a modern day Mona?

Naah. What was the big deal about Mona, anyway?

Sharbat was simply some girl in 1984 staring into the lens of a some passing western cameraman, her eyes no different to those of a few hundred of the inhabitants of Kandahar, no different to thousands of of her modern day Greek peers, whose ancestors were members of Alexander'rs army, ('Alexander', 'Kandahar', get it?) were given permission to make free with the local women, and probably raped her great great great etc grandmother.

She's a recluse now, so what's the big deal?


Jaybee

Yowsa.
You found an app to show these people what I'm talking about- Dali cutting out an eyeball.

Pay closer attention though- they show you a woman, but the actual cutting of the eyeball is done on a cow. Look at it.

Lola:
The vulture is revealing the sheet music behind the universe if we look closely enough, it's our duty to acknowledge the majesty in that as we might be the only ones who can.

The 'sheet music' behind the universe is revealed to you every time you get a cavity.

We fight off all our instincts and odors with clever technology- and we still come out with b.o.
So, this sheet music is also revealed to you everytime you smell body-funk.

I hereby bet a hundred dollars that Dr. Lou is sitting there listening to tons of sheet music.

Water:
It's not about control, it's about letting go of control.

Actually, it is about control.
Not in the sense that they whittle their minds down to nothing for hopes of Nirvana, but in the sense that these people have been known to die just by sitting for hours and willing it.

Fuck.
Can't find a link. Will later.

Doc,
Ugh because it's natural that seeing my species losing out to another hurts me as an animal. I also gave it to a friend to, eh, cheer him up. He's actually a faggot, and I don't think he liked it. :(

I also said ugh cause that's a picture that me and my ancestors haven't seen in almost half a millenium. It's a vivid role reversal of my typical life, my typical experience. It's sobering, because it reminds me of what life was. It was also somewhat tittilating, but I thought I'd let yourself rub all against it. You're much better at articulating how dead babies turns you on.

Bust most of all I wanted to squeeze in some Pixies but also pertain to this thread.

Gendanken,

Pay closer attention though- they show you a woman, but the actual cutting of the eyeball is done on a cow. Look at it.

Yeah. They could have done much better disgusing the fact. I mean the least they could have done was put some mascara on the cow. I mean, come on. But, I bet in the days when this was avaunt garde it probably made people sick to the stomach. They were unused to looking for such sleight of hand techniques. Today we must expend energy to actively suspend disbelief, even in footage of beheadings and such. (Have you seen any of the mujahadin's beheadings videos? I watched the NIck Berg one.)

But, even so, knowing that it is a cow, and seeing that it's obviously not the same eye as it was moments ago, the effect is still somewhat chilling.

And it's a .gif not an app. It's just a little tiny animated file. Hell, if the avatar size limits were larger you could use it for an avatar. I wonder what it'd look like resized to 40x40. Want me to try? It's about time you had an avatar, don't you think?

Vert:
Yeah. They could have done much better disgusing the fact. I mean the least they could have done was put some mascara on the cow. I mean, come on. But, I bet in the days when this was avaunt garde it probably made people sick to the stomach.

No.
Actually it made them overjoyed with that pedant's lust to be 'different'.
This was the time of the Dadaist where people embraced something like feces and dead babies for its fashion.

Made bad art good by being so bad- peep this.
Mona took us through every hole in her body,
http://www.brynmawr.edu/anthropology/sdiamond/kellychew/page11.html

Ick.
They call this art.

But, even so, knowing that it is a cow, and seeing that it's obviously not the same eye as it was moments ago, the effect is still somewhat chilling.

That's what I don't get in people.
Why "chilling"?
Why not "interesting" or "nicely disturbing"?
It makes more sense- something interesting is interesting because its rare. Roadkill and animal torutre is common, human death isn't (for us).

Yet you people don't find something like a vulture about to gobble a boy up
as interesting, you find it displeasing or hurtful.

(Have you seen any of the mujahadin's beheadings videos? I watched the NIck Berg one.)

Bet you winced and felt all sowy for him.
Want me to try? It's about time you had an avatar, don't you think?
Nope.
Which reminds me, must change my sig.

Roman:
Ugh because it's natural that seeing my species losing out to another hurts me as an animal
No, it hurts you as a philosopher.

Lou, I hate to admit, does have a point.
The vulture is kind of cozy.

Gendanken,

Actually it made them overjoyed with that pedant's lust to be 'different'.
This was the time of the Dadaist where people embraced something like feces and dead babies for its fashion.

While looking for copies of the film or images from it, I saw multiple reviews about how it introduced true Avaunt Garde film-making. A whole new genre. Lean on story and all about strange visuals. It's these weird sorts of movies that trick people into thinking that there is some type of meaning to be found and so they spend time and effort cogitating the possiblities. But, I think that in this case at least they've been fooled. Nothing but flash and glitter.

Embracing difference, as you say. Just trying to be 'weird'.

Mona took us through every hole in her body,

Mmm. Sexy. Mona's got some hot holes.

I'm somewhat surprised to hear you say 'ick' like that. Why so? What's so icky about it?
I guess you wouldn't stick cameras up your holes if given the opportunity then?
Think about it.
Gendanken's Holes.
You'd be famous.

That's what I don't get in people.
Why "chilling"?
Why not "interesting" or "nicely disturbing"?
It makes more sense- something interesting is interesting because its rare. Roadkill and animal torutre is common, human death isn't (for us).

Empathy. The slit eyeball isn't even about human death. It's about pain and torture. I do find it interesting. And 'nicely disturbing' would also cover it. But, even so it's chilling. Why? Because it gives me the shivers. When I see it, I can feel the razor sliding across and through my eye. The fluid draining out. The pain and the wetness. I can feel it. And this causes a shivering sensation which translates to chill.

Little aside: When I was a child, I was running after my older brother and sister. We were at my dad's girlfriend's place up on the top of the mountain. I was a fat little fuck and couldn't keep up but I was trying hard. Well, there was this barbed wire fence. BUt, I was running so fast I forgot about it. It was about eye height. I put my eye out. Big ragged hole in it and it was draining. They had to take me to the hospital, sew it up, and refill the eyeball with fluid. I really don't remember it other than brief flashes. But, I distinctly remember asking my father plaintively, "Is my eye going to die?"
Funny.

Anyway. I suspect that some of the sensation of that event actually creeps into this equation.

Yet you people don't find something like a vulture about to gobble a boy up
as interesting, you find it displeasing or hurtful.

As to the vulture. Not really. The most disturbing element of that photo isn't the vulture. It's the boy. The vulture is, as you said, disturbing in the sense that it's a 'what's wrong with this picture' type of thing. I mentioned it in my first post about it, yes. But only insofar as to alleviate the starvation of the boy. To alleviate the empathy that I feel while watching this poor child devouring himself from the inside out and dying in a dusty land with no one there to even cradle him or to tell him to hush or to do anything for him other than to take a picture.

The vulture is secondary to the reaction.
Now, if it was a vulture actively snaking it's head into a human's body, then it'd be another story. But, at this point it would be more clinical than plaintive.

Bet you winced and felt all sowy for him.

A little. It was done poorly. They butchered him. I feel that the least they could have done was let him know beforehand what was to happen so that he could come to some type of terms with it. Even to write some final letters and such. And they also botched the job. They took forever hacking and slicing. They cut the video and turned it back on minutes later because they were fucking it up so bad. It was a gruesome way to die. And, again, I felt the knife on my own neck.

I didn't really feel too sorry for him, in particular, for one because he's a dirty jew (kidding.)
But seriously, I didn't because he placed himself in this situation. He wasn't innocent in this. I didn't care for the needless brutality of it, but he knew the risk. And he took it.

Nope.
Which reminds me, must change my sig.

Why don't you like avatars? Any particular reason?
And, you still need to change your sig.

Invert:
I'm somewhat surprised to hear you say 'ick' like that. Why so? What's so icky about it?

Number one- its a woman's poon I'm being exposed to.
Number two- she's got crud.
Number three- I'm hetero.
Number four- this idea of the cognoscenti praising this as 'art'.

Flashback to high school and college 'art' classes, sitting around watching professors ridicule my art in praise of Greek junk.
I say again.
ICK.
Empathy. The slit eyeball isn't even about human death. It's about pain and torture. I do find it interesting. And 'nicely disturbing' would also cover it. But, even so it's chilling. Why? Because it gives me the shivers. When I see it, I can feel the razor sliding across and through my eye. The fluid draining out. The pain and the wetness. I can feel it. And this causes a shivering sensation which translates to chill.
Gotcha.

Only once have I seen the gullotine used- in New Guinea. I felt the slice of metal through my jugular.
Little aside: When I was a child, I was running after my older brother and sister. We were at my dad's girlfriend's place up on the top of the mountain. I was a fat little fuck and couldn't keep up but I was trying hard. Well, there was this barbed wire fence. BUt, I was running so fast I forgot about it. It was about eye height. I put my eye out. Big ragged hole in it and it was draining. They had to take me to the hospital, sew it up, and refill the eyeball with fluid. I really don't remember it other than brief flashes. But, I distinctly remember asking my father plaintively, "Is my eye going to die?"
Funny.

Suh- weeeeeeeet.
Lastly-
As to the vulture. Not really. The most disturbing element of that photo isn't the vulture. It's the boy. The vulture is, as you said, disturbing in the sense that it's a 'what's wrong with this picture' type of thing. I mentioned it in my first post about it, yes. But only insofar as to alleviate the starvation of the boy. To alleviate the empathy that I feel while watching this poor child devouring himself from the inside out and dying in a dusty land with no one there to even cradle him or to tell him to hush or to do anything for him other than to take a picture.

We're so....different.

Its not that I don’t empathize, in fact I feel I feel things more than most.
But something in me will always see that boy in context- he's always lived in carelessness.
He exists because of carelessness.
If I had him, I'd love him to tears but in this world between vulture and boy, there's more of the latter than the former.
And its always the latter that's given priority, which, to me, is why he ends up dying that way.
That's the irony.

But something in me will always see that boy in context- he's always lived in carelessness.
He exists because of carelessness.

Yes. But see, here's the thing. This all comes after the initial emotional response. The knowledge of carelessness is logical and rational. But emotions are first. The desire to reach and pick him up. The anger at the cameraman for taking a picture instead of doing something. The anger at the self for not being there to be able to help.

This is the difficulty of modern human existence. We are aware of things like this occurring halfway across the globe. Locations in which we have no direct presence and are unable to do anything about. We see this image of this dying boy and we can't do anything for him. Nothing.

Primitive peoples have often thought of the camera as a stealer of souls.
Maybe sometimes it is.