the basic grounds for this debate will be directly dealing with the nature of existence in terms of time and creation, or non creation. it basicaly breaks down into 2 standpoints, on one side something comes from nothing where the birth of existence comes into action, on the other an eternal universe that has always existed in the same form or constantly changed in cycles of birth and death but is still eternal in cyclic form.


i take the stance of an eternal universe and existence which was never created from nothingness, how will the rules of this debate be layed out?, and who will participate?.


peace.

this sub forum is crap by the way i just felt pitty for its useless existence, nobody was posting in it.


peace.

I propose a counter-debate: should one care how things came into existence?

You must realize that if you discover that answer, to the creation of everything, your boredom will be piqued and you will have to kill yourself. I suggest you find something more plausible to waste your time with. 'tis simply not animalistic to think such things.

screw, eat, kill; those are your duties

I don't see a debate of this subject going anywhere. We have no experience whatsoever of something coming from "nothing". There is no evidence one could present that the universe "came from nothing", or what it "came from". Cosmologists are only now beginning to speculate on whether they could find evidence of what preceeded T = 0. Like, is the universe the result of brane interactions?

But claiming the universe "came from nothing" is just as indefensible as saying it came from brane collisions or vacuum fluctuations or whatever.

before the universe there was no such thing as time so therefore the universe was the beginning of time.

should one care how things came into existence?

Should you care about anything? About art, music, starving childeren in another part of the world?

I think you are not taking this seriously.

this sub forum is crap by the way i just felt pitty for its useless existence, nobody was posting in it.


peace.

For what it is worth should Admin chose to set this up as a debate "You are on".

I don't care for the (4) post restriction but until it is changed I'll deal with it.

For what it is worth should Admin chose to set this up as a debate "You are on".

It's not up to "Admin" to set it up. How it works is clearly explained in the sticky threads in this forum.

Once you agree who the debaters will be, and what the rules will be, and who will go first, the first debater can simply start a "Debate" thread.

I don't care for the (4) post restriction but until it is changed I'll deal with it.

The rules are not set by God. You can mutually agree to any rules you like, provided the debate remains a formal debate.

Wouldn't the proper counter argument be "the universe has never existed?"

EFC:

Are you still interested in debating this topic?

Yes, I believe the Universe has always existed, since energy can not be created or destroyed, and since atomic matter is electrons protons and neutrons properly arranged...

I'll even take it a step further, since our Universe IS so large and VERY VERY VERY OLD, there must have always been a place for intelligent life somewhere, always existing.

AND since the electromagnetic force is so much stronger than the force of gravity, I believe that atomic matter can only be compacted so much since the force governing the protons electrons neutrons distances is the strongest force in the universe, and thus, the big bang is a big farce, since the power of the resistance between the individual atoms and molecules is so much stronger than gravity. ( it is 10 38th power times stronger than gravity ) Hence, the universe has always existed and has always had intelligent life forms since it could indeed, have absolutely no beginning and no end. In that case, life forms are a condition of matter which is integral to the universe, and thus "we" are the universe being aware of itself! My God!

Perhaps this "section" of the universe came from a super large super nova, but just because our telescopes can't see the whole universe, doesn't mean we can assume that ALL of it, what we can see and what we CAN'T came from a mysterious explosion...

Universe is cyclical, the future created the beginning...the Big Bang goes and it expands, and than a force is born that drags matter back to each other and universe collapses like a black hole into itself, the second it collapses everything into itself it oncemore expands in a Big Bang

furthermore...these so called oscillations of expansion and contraction of universe give rise to another universe in a bubble and allow it to start this cycle...

I agree the universe has always existed in one form or another.

Something does come from nothing. Nothing is unstable. The universe is made of roughly equal amounts of positive and negative energy, so no energy was required to create it. Cause and effect only apply on the macro scale.

Universe is cyclical, the future created the beginning...the Big Bang goes and it expands, and than a force is born that drags matter back to each other and universe collapses like a black hole into itself, the second it collapses everything into itself it oncemore expands in a Big Bang

furthermore...these so called oscillations of expansion and contraction of universe give rise to another universe in a bubble and allow it to start this cycle...

Yes exactly, our universe is a massive free energy machine of cosmic proportions

right so if we all know this...why are we even debating?

Indeed... if only we could harness this free energy and let go of oil forever....

Zero point energy ?

Indeed... if only we could harness this free energy and let go of oil forever....

yo UTAH...what energy? we are talking about universe and not energy. And if we are this so called energy which is the universe than we would be harnessing ourselves for our own energy needs.

I say lets capture all the neutrinos and use their energy

or have like sacrificial rituals, were a human will spontaneously combast and turn to plasma ball and the energy will be used to generate food...

The universe is not only our present state of natural laws, it is also the nothing where it resides. That means there might be many universes with different properties. The nothing always existed, which makes sense.

The nothing always existed, which makes sense.

Yeah that basically makes perfect sense. :p :rolleyes:

Well, the universe is composed of electrons protons and neutrons, as you know, and also as you know, each atom has an electric charge which moving around the nucleus, at a frequency that is so high it cannot truly be comprehended, these charges are ALWAYS moving... I believe this is the Zero Point Energy flux which keeps balance... so if a theoretical device puts out more energy than is put into it what is actually happening is that the Universes "electrical osmosis" system is supplying the extra energy. On the other hand, "free energy devices" is a crazy subject which, if it were true at all, the oil companies would slam down on such a bankrupting idea, which leads to conspiracy theories and thats just a mucky non-scientific subject... But we do know for sure, that the universe is a free energy machine itself.... perhaps we merely have not fully discovered the advanced technology to harness it....

LOL I HATE the never ending stories movies, lets keep that shit out of this! hahaha

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This thread seems to be debating the topic, but in an informal way. Such discussions are best carried out in other subforums.

Thread closed.