View Full Version : The space between.


sargentlard
08-17-03, 03:21 PM
Ok so i am assuming and percieving the info i learned in HS to be correct...the info that there is huge amounts of distance between the electrons and the nucleas of an atom. I was told a figure: that if you placed a pea in the middle of a football field, that pea would be the nucleus and the ends of the football fields would be where the electrons were.

If such is true then what is the space between the electrons and the nucleus composed of?....you know...what is between the distance from the end of the football field to the pea made of? It can't be air because air itself is made out of atoms. So what is it?

Persol
08-17-03, 03:26 PM
In a word, nothing. It's a vaccum (although I hesitate to call a space of that size a vacuum.)

phlogistician
08-18-03, 07:45 AM
The space is kind of made out of electron, ..... the 'orbits' for electrons are really just the places where the electron has a higher probabilty of being. They don't zoom round in nice little circles, but rather, just 'exist' all around the nucleus. The 'orbits' have shapes, from spheres, to dumb-bell shapes. So there isn't a defined electron, or orbit, it's all over the place, including the 'space'.

Not a great answer, but then, this stuff doesn't have easy answers.

MRC_Hans
08-18-03, 08:20 AM
Subatomic particles are not small solid balls buzzing around withing the atom, that is just an image made to help understanding. You might as well say that anything within the atom IS the atom. The reason we do talk about empty space is that we have found out that small particles like electrons may pass straight through an atom without interacting with it.

Hans

sargentlard
08-20-03, 05:25 PM
It could also be virtual particles filling the space...but i just realized i am too constraint in my thinking of the model of atom.

BetweenThePoints
09-10-03, 11:39 AM
The theory of a physicist named Hugh Everett way back in 1957 is that of the multiverse. Instead of there being one universe with all existence being confined to it, his thought was that there is an infinite number of universes simply "out there" in the multiverse. Every moment comprised a seperate and unique universe, sort of like a line being comprised of an infinite number of points, or, to put it in a simpler fashion, like the picture frames on film. These universes would interact with each other on the subatomic level.
Basically, this would mean that, because there are an infinite number of counterparts to the atom, then there would be an infinite number of electrons within it. In each universe the electron is in a different position, and, since every universe interacts with every other universe, this would explain what was in the "space between," our own nervous systems only alows us to directly percieve a single universe as we exist within it, and, as we move to another, it would appear to us that whatever object we are looking at, in this case an electron, would be moving, when infact we are actually witnessing the multiverse shift.
There is actually an experiment that Everett used as support for his theory, though the theory is still hotly contested among physicists. I won't go into any length about the experiment though, unless someone asks for an explanation.

river-wind
09-10-03, 01:53 PM
the multiverse theory is pretty cool, and accounts for many experimental results, such as the "splitting" of atoms when shot at a double slit paper, as well as the fact that light covers distance in the least amount of time, instead of the least amount of distance. How can a photon "know" which angle will take the least amount of time to travel? The multiverse theory explains it- interference with all exsisting things all the time.

Also explains the whole "a particle only receases a charge once it is observed", and more amazingly why "the other half of the particle recieves it's opposing spin the instant it's partner, where ever in the univers it may be is observed." But looking at a partcle peice here on earth, and finding out that it has an up spin, I am actually prompting both this particle and it's other half, out flying past jupiter, to assume reciprocal spins. Amazing to think about the implications.

BetweenThePoints
09-10-03, 03:39 PM
Reading about the Multiverse Theory really is an eye opener. It's changed my whole outlook on the relashionship between time and space. "Time" isn't what we assume it to be according to the Multiverse Theory, it's actually the shift that happens when new universes are created. Amazing. Movement doesn't really exist. Just an infinite amount of locations, and, since there are an infinite number of universes and an infinite number of the objects we are looking at, it is actually everywhere all at once. We only see it in certain locations and in certain universes.
That in and of itself is interesting aswell. The reason why objects appear to follow a path is because our consious thought can only exist in certain universes, and our brain is the thing that stores it when it is in one or another.

//drift
09-11-03, 05:04 PM
Do you have any particularly good links on this?

BetweenThePoints
09-11-03, 07:22 PM
Alas //Drift, I do not. I didn't learn about it online, I read about it.

sargentlard
09-11-03, 07:29 PM
Try this

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F1EDD-B48A-1E90-8EA5809EC5880000

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/istpep/multiverse

http://hs.riverdale.k12.or.us/~dthompso/exhib_03/matthewb/multiverse.html

Canute
09-12-03, 04:42 AM
Thanks for that - the first one is excellent.

wesmorris
09-12-03, 05:07 PM
technically i think the correct answer would be "space-time".

sargentlard
09-12-03, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by wesmorris
technically i think the correct answer would be "space-time".

Hmm but isn't space time made up of matter itself?

wesmorris
09-12-03, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by sargentlard
Hmm but isn't space time made up of matter itself?

Uhm, it's my understanding that matter is matter and spacetime has matter in it.

BetweenThePoints
09-12-03, 05:40 PM
wesmorris,

Have you ever heard of the Multiverse Theory? Well, if you haven't, or you have and don't quite know what it is, then check out the first site on the list of sites that sargentlard put up.

sargentlard
09-12-03, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by wesmorris
Uhm, it's my understanding that matter is matter and spacetime has matter in it.

Ok so working from your definition why would Time need to be involved in the space between. Could it have effects on the 4 forces working on the atoms?.....i know this is pretty speculative stuff but i am interested.

wesmorris
09-12-03, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by sargentlard
Ok so working from your definition why would Time need to be involved in the space between. Could it have effects on the 4 forces working on the atoms?.....i know this is pretty speculative stuff but i am interested.

Well, it's not my definition. I'd imagine someone more versed in physics might be able to tell you more. The standard model used in astrophysics kind of stuff says that reality consists of space-time. If there is otherwise "nothing", space-time should be the remainder.

wesmorris
09-12-03, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by BetweenThePoints
wesmorris,

Have you ever heard of the Multiverse Theory? Well, if you haven't, or you have and don't quite know what it is, then check out the first site on the list of sites that sargentlard put up.

Yeah I have, I'm a loyal subscriber of sciam. :) I'm pretty sure I've posted a link to that article before. Interesting stuff for sure.