Has Germany really changed?
It seems that war is so far entrenched in it's culture.

One thing is sure that they try very hard to tell us that they changed. there for allowing huge immmigration from Turkey.

Some say it is some of kind of a "punishment" ... since racial feelings is still very much hight in Germany towards the "other:

germany changed a great deal between ww1 and ww2

it was fairly democrtic in 1914, by the start of ww2 it was controlled by the nazi regime, and now it is a totally democratic state which is no worse then any other country in regards to discrimination and desire for world domination (in fact, it is better by far then some)

Ritri - The only common denominators of WW1 & WW2 is Germany.

I disagree. The French were still offended that they had lost the Franco-Prussian war which transferred from France to Germany political ascendancy over Europe, which the former, with only passing interruptions, had exercised for well beyond two centuries.*

The rise of Hitler was facilitated within Germany by resentment against the Treaty of Versailles. The punitive nature of the treaty, with severe requirements for reparations, was instigated at the behest of the French. Why? They were still smarting at the indemnities they had had to pay the Germans upon loosing the Franco Prussian war.

If you wished to say "the struggle for control of continental Europe was a common denominator of WW1 and WW2" then I could agree. Anything more specific than this would be misleading and inaccurate.


Alain, I am greatly puzzled by your contention that Germany was fairly democratic in 1914.I immediately think of the influence the Kaiser had on the conduct of the war, compared with the King of England; or the role of the Junkers, the Prussian landed aristocracy, whose powers were almost feudal, and whose influence was certainly anti-democratic.

ENSOR, Sir Robert, [B]England, 1870-1914[B] page xix, Oxford University Press 1962 ISBN 0-19-821705-6

Has Germany really changed?
Yes, I believe it has. And not only Germany has been subject to change, but the rest of Europe too. For example, most of Europe is tied in both NATO and the European Union. War between states associated with those organisations is deemed very unlikely.

It seems that war is so far entrenched in it's culture.
Why do you think that? The events that started both world wars are not so much fueled by a warlike culture, but rather by political motives, nationalism born out of discontent and alliances.

Germany changed after WWI, and WWII is proof to that. the situation was different, like others have noted. And yeah of course the war has overwhelmed their culture, but hey, can you blame them? if your country was responsible (whether fully or partially) for two of the most horrifying wars in history, wouldn't you still be looking at life like karma might come get you?

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it true in European countries that you can be arrested or fined for saluting hitler or etc?

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it true in European countries that you can be arrested or fined for saluting hitler or etc?
It means that Europe as a WHOLE has changed. cool.

ritri do you think it is cool for peoples rights to be repressed?. if i wanted to fly the flag upside down with a big middle finger on it that is my business. and if i did do something like that i would not worry about being fined or dragged out of my house.

"Alain, I am greatly puzzled by your contention that Germany was fairly democratic in 1914.I immediately think of the influence the Kaiser had on the conduct of the war, compared with the King of England; or the role of the Junkers, the Prussian landed aristocracy, whose powers were almost feudal, and whose influence was certainly anti-democratic."

compared to during the nazi regime, it was. The Reichstag controlled the money, which, during the start of the war limited the kaiser

you could also say that marxist/communist were a common factor in these wars...

Not to mention conservative minded capitalists. Now Zendrake, you'll have to try harder than that.
As for "Has Germany really changed?"
the answer is yes. Go talk to some Germans, see how much they want to invade other countries these days.

Go talk to some Germans, see how much they want to invade other countries these days.

I've noticed that some Germans tend to still dislike Slavs.

Hey, I've noticed some Germans seem to dislike USA'ians, and USA'ians dislike French, germans, Iranians, etc etc. Not to mention the English who dislike the WElsh, and the WElsh who dislike the English, and so on ad nauseam. One of these days we'll get past disliking people for no real reason.

I've noticed that some Germans tend to still dislike Slavs.
More than any racial hatred towards the other?

One thing is sure that they try very hard to tell us that they changed. there for allowing huge immmigration from Turkey.

Great. So we destroy Germans for guilt.

WWI was started by a Jewish Serbian assassin and a complex geopolitical situation. WWII followed from that.

Do you want to oversimplify anymore? History don't take kindly to that, youngun.

I've noticed that some Germans tend to still dislike Slavs.

...with good reason, given the history of WWI and what happened in East Germany.

If I ever get power, I'll cleanse the earth of Russians and people from New York City.

Germany changed after WWI, and WWII is proof to that. the situation was different, like others have noted. And yeah of course the war has overwhelmed their culture, but hey, can you blame them? if your country was responsible (whether fully or partially) for two of the most horrifying wars in history, wouldn't you still be looking at life like karma might come get you?

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it true in European countries that you can be arrested or fined for saluting hitler or etc?

I am German and currently also living in Germany. It's funny hearing you guys talking about what "germans" are thinking. The only people who give a fuck about WWII are the elderly and the politicians who are put into very visible situations where they "must" exhibit some kind of sympathy for what their country has done 60 years ago.

As time goes on, nobody will give a shit, and I certainly don't. I had nothing to do with the war and the people who did are slowly but surely dying out....soon there won't be any left. I happen to be a german humanist who believes in universal tolerance. I lived in the US for 15 years and that's where I got my education so far.

I think it's pathetic how some of my people still tend to feel so sorry about what happened and feel personally at fault simply because they were "born a german". Last time I checked, we do not get to choose where we are born....and therefore the new german generation shouldn't owe anybody shit about WWI and WWII........ok, i'm done now, peace on earth!

im an an american, living in western europe.
i fully agree with what the above poster has said. it represents very accurately the mindset regarding ww1 and ww2 in young folks.

I've noticed that some Germans tend to still dislike Slavs.
Who doesn't? Even slavs don't like other slavs. :D

russians especially look down on the polish, for example.
correct, hapsburg.