http://www.responsibleopposing.com/comment/lasttime.html

*Note: This isn't my article


The Last Time I Hit A Woman
Guest Article by Adam Evenson

PART 1

I will never forget the intensity and range of emotions I experienced the last time that I hit a woman.

I know now, as I knew then, that it doesn't matter:


That she had attacked me first, verbally and emotionally;

That she was the first to begin shouting and intimidating;

That she was much bigger and much stronger that I;

That she hit me first; or,

That I only hit her once, with an open hand rather than with a clenched fist, and that my blow probably struck her on the arm though she had hit me in the face with great force.
I remember immediately feeling intense shame for what I had done. And I remember feeling very anxious. I loved that woman very much and I was dependent on her love and care. I remember the terrifying dread that went with the thought that she would withdraw her love completely because of what I had done, that she might even abandon me because of my violence.

I remember the shocked look on her face. It was the first time I had hit her in spite of her many provocations during previous arguments, and in spite of her other acts of violence toward me.

I knew that I had crossed a line and that it would be very difficult, and perhaps impossible, to ever return to the other side.

And then she said the words which I most feared hearing:

"You go to your room and stay there until your father comes home!"

I was only seven years old at the time and I had struck my mother.

I sat in my room for hours, waiting anxiously. I did not think that my father would hit me because of what I had done to my mother. I expected that he and I would talk through what had happened, and I knew that I could not defend or justify what I had done.

I was anxious because I could not think of a way to resolve the situation which had developed and because I could not think of a way to effectively make amends.

I also knew that my mother would probably be expecting him to physically punish me and that she would be pressuring him to "teach me a lesson I would never forget", but I trusted my father to be fair and reasonable, and not to use violence to try to teach me not to be violent.

What I feared most about the conversation I would have with my father is that I would have lost his respect because of what I had done. And, even at the age of seven, it was very important to me to be respected and loved by both of my parents, and my mother's love and respect had always been very conditional, even before I had hit her this one and only time.

My father came to my room soon after he arrived home from work. We talked. We reasoned. We analysed.

One outcome of our long talk was that I never hit my mother again, in spite of ongoing and repeated provocations, and I have also never hit any other woman.

My father did not attempt to shame me for my part in what had happened. My father did not attempt to intimidate me or terrorise me.

My father talked with me about his view of the differences between men and women. And, because much of what he told me does not conform to politically correct thinking, I will not report all of what we discussed.

I will relate the part of our conversation which dealt with what I would have to do to resolve the situation that had developed.

He made it clear that I would have to apologise to my mother for hitting her. I already knew that, but I wanted to know if she would have to apologise to me for hitting me.

My father explained that the world requires men only to be responsible and accountable for their thoughts, their feelings and their actions. Women, he suggested, are always permitted to blame others for what they think and feel and do. My mother, he explained, would maintain her belief that I had "made her hit me first" and would insist that I needed to change so that "she wouldn't have to yell at me or hit me ever again."

I remember saying that I did not think that was fair. My father explained that fairness is a male value which most women do not understand or appreciate.

During my apology to my mother, as my father had predicted, she demanded that I acknowledge that I had caused her to hit me, that her violence was my fault. My father had advised me not to argue that point even though, objectively speaking, it is not true.

He explained I could use logic and rationality to devise an acceptable response to her demand without having to lie to her by falsely admitting that I thought her violence was my fault. He advised me to keep my logic to myself, explaining that women do not highly value logic at the best of times and that they detest it when they are emotionally upset. (I told you that much of our discussion was not politically correct.)

Knowing that I had not been responsible for her violence and that, except in very special circumstances, I could not be responsible for any future acts of violence she might commit against me, it was acceptable for me to promise that:

"I will never again do anything which will cause you to hit me."

My mother seemed to infer that this promise contained some acknowledgment that I felt responsible for what had already occurred and, after telling me how much I had disappointed her, and after telling me what a "bad little boy" I had been, she allowed that I might one day again earn her respect and her trust.

My father then bore the brunt of her unresolved rage. That night she threatened to leave him because she thought that he should have disciplined me physically and that he had let me off too easily.

PART 2

In my life I have found that my father's politically incorrect perspective does not only apply to intimate relationships.

I remember an incident with a teacher when I was 11 years old. My female math(s) teacher had graded a test the whole class had taken and had distributed our test papers with our scores. It was a 20 question test. My grade was 95%. It appeared that I had got one of the answers wrong.

I was a child prodigy in math(s) and it was unusual for me to get a wrong answer when doing tests with students my own age. I rechecked the answer that had been marked wrong. I found that my answer was correct.

I brought this to the attention of the teacher. I asked her to re-grade my paper and credit me with a score of 100%.

She checked her scoring sheet and it showed an answer different than mine. I said that the answer sheet had to be wrong and that I would do the problem on the black board to show why my answer was correct.

She flew into a rage. She started yelling at me in front of the class and attacked me for even suggesting that the answer sheet could possibly be wrong. She said that every teacher who used the same text book we used would be using the same answer sheets we were using and that "they" would never allow an error on an answer sheet which is so widely used in schools.

I calmly offered again to do the problem on the black board so that I could show the correct answer.

Then, to my amazement, she began to argue that there could be more than one correct answer to a math problem and that the answer given on the answer sheet was probably more correct than the answer I had got.

We were working with numerical calculations, not with the math of quantum physics, and I told her there was only one correct answer in this case and that it was different than what was shown on the answer sheet. I offered again to work it out on the board.

Her response was to send me to the principals office for discipline.

As fate would have it, this particular principal was a gifted math teacher. He allowed me to do the problem on paper and acknowledged that my answer was correct and that the answer given on the answer sheet was incorrect.

He and I agreed that many students would have been given a grade 5% lower than they had earned.

He then explained to me that he was not going to require, or even ask, the teacher to regrade the test papers. He said that the rightness or wrongness of the answer had now become a side issue and that the central issue was that I had challenged the authority of the teacher in the classroom.

The resolution was to be that I would be required to apologise to the teacher for disrupting her class and no mention was to be made of the correct answer to the disputed question. If I did not want to apologise I would be suspended from school and would only be allowed to return when I was ready to apologise unconditionally.

This betrayal by a trusted adult male was a valuable and important lesson for me. As well as being a math teacher, the man was the coach of the school football team and a referee for senior football matches involving other schools in our region, and I still think that he should have had a better understanding of what constitutes fairness and objectivity in resolving disputes.

He had his own problems. He had to supervise and support a female math teacher who, unlike the many competent female math teachers I have known, did not actually understand math.

It was the first time in my life I had witnessed a man in a position of authority willingly disregarding matters of fact in order to take a position favourable to a female in a subordinate position.

Though he had acknowledged that the answer on the answer sheet was incorrect he was wholly unwilling to acknowledge the error. For him, a 5% error on just one math test which would corrupt the scores of both male and female students equally was unimportant when compared to the need of the teacher to maintain control in her classroom. He actively reinforced her determination to remain in error at the expense of all of her students lest acknowledging that I had been right about the error might undermine the other students confidence in the teacher.

I cannot say that he would not have done the same thing to protect an incompetent male math teacher. It may or may not have been a gender issue. It is, however, a pattern of behaviour I have observed in many males when gender is a possible factor in disputes they are asked or required to mediate.

PART 3

In spite of lessons learned early in my life, I still managed to marry a woman who during our ten years together was frequently violent, both emotionally and physically. I never responded to her violence by becoming violent myself. As I stated near the beginning of this, I have not hit a woman since I was 7 years old.

When I finally accepted that my partner was not going to acknowledge that her violence was a problem, and that she was not going to make any efforts to change, I left the marriage.

During the "sorting out" process over the next several months, we disagreed about something and she flew into a rage. She made a comment which helped me to finalise the distancing process. She screamed:

"I have never forgiven you for the way you looked at me the first time I hit you."

"How did I look?" I asked.

"You looked hurt and shocked and angry and disgusted."

"How should I have looked after you hit me?" I asked.

"I needed for you to understand how I was feeling at that time. I needed your support, not your anger," she said.

I understood then why she had never apologised for that act of violence or for any of her many other violent assaults.

She never knew that she had a problem. No one could tell her that she had a problem. No one could help her with a problem she does not know about and cannot be told about.

The answer on the answer sheet says that men are most often the perpetrators of violence, so there are very few programmes for women who act out violently, and very little acknowledgment of the extent of women's violence.

The answer on the answer sheet is wrong. Ample evidence exists to show that the answer is wrong.

I didn't go looking for the evidence until I started trying to come to terms with my own experiences. I was aware of all the propaganda about male violence. Like many males who have been in relationships with violence prone women, I thought I was an exception to the rule. Like most males who experience women's violence, I did not report her behaviour to anyone, officially or unofficially.

The vast majority of women's violence toward men is not reported, except to researchers who ask in an environment which protects men and women from any immediate consequences resulting from their violence. In those situations both men and women admit the extent to which women perpetrate violence in relationships.

Results from research projects of this type need to be acknowledged in any programme aiming to teach adolescent males about violence. Many of those males also will want to learn how their mothers can be helped to become less violent.

I would never punch a woman in the face, or punch a woman, period. However, if she takes a swing at me, whether it be with her fist or a weapon, I would have no problem defending myself.
If the woman is being emotionally and verbally abusive, leave.

Whenever I had an argument with my Ex, we would never raise our voices to each other. If voices are raised then we both agreed to leave for a short while and return 2 hours later. But we never had to leave. I would never hit a woman no matter what she did to me for I know the power I can throw and it would hurt her very, very badly. Controlling ones temper/emotions isn't easy and that's why it is better to leave any situation that you think is getting out of hand.

As far as hitting women outside the context of taekwondo class (where some of the other students are women, and you're supposed to hit each other) I never hit, nor will ever hit a woman. There is too much stigma attached to it, and I want no part of that stigma.

......and obviously, the last time I actually DID hit a woman was in Taekwondo class

I would never punch a woman in the face, or punch a woman, period. However, if she takes a swing at me, whether it be with her fist or a weapon, I would have no problem defending myself.
If the woman is being emotionally and verbally abusive, leave.

Did you even read the OP? :confused:

An excellent piece, I thought.

Violence by women is indeed overlooked.

If a woman hit me all I would do is leave OR tie her up and call the police.

That would be back in about grade 7 or 8 lol

That would be back in about grade 7 or 8 lol

ditto, and she was my sister.

I've never hit a woman. Hit plenty of men though. Long time ago, however; mellowed out in my old age. *sigh*

Shorty and her (girl)friend apparently beat the shit out of some big guy in Junior High, I always got a laugh from that one.

My dad used to tell this story of a lil' guy married to a huge cow of a woman, travelling on the rigs in 50's Alberta. he was the tool push or something. Anyways, if he came home drunk, she would beat the living shit outta him - within a hair of his life sometimes. Well the whole Trailer park would hear this and then laugh. They'd even say "rough night last night Les??? HAHAHA.

Anyway things have come a long way for lil guys married to large women since then...

Apparently real men can take a beating from their wife, shrugging off her blows and bites.

Of course, that entirely misses the point. Some abuse by men against women doesn't rate high on the pain scale. Pushing and slapping come to mind. What makes a woman cry is the blatant disrespect and betrayal that comes from a slap, from the betrayal. From the humiliation of being dominated like a child.

Men feel exactly the same way. I've talked to several males who have been abused by their girlfriends, and they all put the blame back on themselves, or try to rationalise 'She has a problem, and I need to help her through it'.

My ex used to get violent when he drank alot......I took some good blows over the yrs......but that is why he is my EX

What finally made you leave?

Too much violence in the world generally. Is there soemthing we can do about this?

Kill the violent ones?

Too much violence in the world generally. Is there soemthing we can do about this?

Give everyone you meet a smile. And a flower (but that can get expensive):thankyou:

i believe that if the woman hits the man and vise versa then they should expect to be slapped back, yes yes i know men are "generally" stronger but shouldnt they be big enough to take a slap back if they are big enough to give it ?

Kill the violent ones?

:worship:

Give everyone you meet a smile. And a flower (but that can get expensive):thankyou:

My luck I'd be meeting Kumar (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=71039). lol

:roflmao:

I stay away from that thread :crazy:

If a girl hits me, I have every right to rip her heart out and eat it. Seriously now, she's a woman, not an idiot - she can tell right from wrong.

If I ever caught my man cheating on me, the last thing he'd be worry about is if I would hit him.
He'd better worry if I have a knife on me.

If a girl hits me, I have every right to rip her heart out and eat it. Seriously now, she's a woman, not an idiot - she can tell right from wrong.

yeah i agree, if someone hits you, you have the right to defend yourself!

If I ever caught my man cheating on me, the last thing he'd be worry about is if I would hit him.
He'd better worry if I have a knife on me.

do you know what, i would just walk away because it wouldnt be worth going to prison for men come and go, but if you kill someone then thats it, you go to prison

I'm pleading temporary insanity.

I've never hit a guy. Mainly because guys are a hell of a lot bigger than me and I'm not that stupid.
I have been slapped and kicked unconscious by one man. I hope he enjoyed his jail time and deportation.

Give everyone you meet a smile. And a flower (but that can get expensive):thankyou:

Are you a Hippy, SAM?

:)

The only girl I ever hit was my sister...but we were kids...and she deserved it. :) According to my rules of chivalry, a man should never hit a woman, unless she starts throwing closed fist punches that could actually do damage...at that point she gives up all "rights" and should be treated just as any man.

The only girl I ever hit was my sister...but we were kids...and she deserved it. :) According to my rules of chivalry, a man should never hit a woman, unless she starts throwing closed fist punches that could actually do damage...at that point she gives up all "rights" and should be treated just as any man.

and unfortunately I think men have a harder time convincing the arresting officer that its self-defense than women do.

Are you a Hippy, SAM?

:)

Something like that :p

If thou of fortune be bereft,
And in thy store there be but left,
Two loaves, sell one, and with the dole,
Buy Hyacinths to feed thy soul
~Muslih-uddin Sadi

The only girl I ever hit was my sister...but we were kids...and she deserved it. :) According to my rules of chivalry, a man should never hit a woman, unless she starts throwing closed fist punches that could actually do damage...at that point she gives up all "rights" and should be treated just as any man.

Like I said earlier, I wouldn't hit a woman with a closed fist, but if she swung first, she's likely, at the very least, getting thrown to the floor and held down until she calms down.
I know several guys (one was even a cop) that said they would not hesitate to deck a girl if she took a swing at them first.

and unfortunately I think men have a harder time convincing the arresting officer that its self-defense than women do.
That's when you let her pop you in the eye once, then put her down and hold her until the officer arrives. When the officer sees your black eye and no marks on her....

What finally made you leave?

What made me leave?

Well too much drinking....which I tried helping him the best I could with. It continued to the point where one night I got a phone call from the police station. He smashed into a telephone pole knocking it down. He didn't hurt anybody thank god.......but there were ppl out walking in that area.


After hearing what the police told me, I could no longer spend my life like that. This was not the person that I once loved. I should have left after the first time he hit me.....second or even third time......but when he wasn't drinking things were good and I would make excuses in my mind. One time he seriously hurt me and I left for 2 days. He was so worried when I returned because he didn't even remember what he had done. I finally came to my senses and left him which is the hardest thing to do when you have kids. My life has been alot better ever since. My only regret is waiting too long to leave. I was so stupid to put up with his behaviour when at the time I had many men asking me out.......I still shake my head about that one.

I very often feel like beating my mother very violently. But I don't do it. Not because she's a woman, but because she is my mother. I would never hit my father, either.

We provoke our parents for physical punishment very often, it is true. Children try the patience of adults very often. I am not at all against physical punishment of children.

The problem of the writer of the article, and the cultural problem in U.S. is that we separate into two opposing camps: men and women. It starts around 3rd grade and then people never grow up.

Grow up. There are no opposing camps. Recognition of this fact should make it easy to apply fairness to acts of both men and women.

I've punched, kicked and thrown women, but never with violence in my mind.
Martial arts trainings are fun, especially when you both have fallen on the ground. :D

Kill the violent ones?

Yes! Smash their heads against the ground! Beat them with aluminum bats! Violence is horrible!

The problem of the writer of the article, and the cultural problem in U.S. is that we separate into two opposing camps: men and women. It starts around 3rd grade and then people never grow up.

Specifically, the writer's problem is that he's a wuss. His mum should have beat the stupid out of him.
I mean jesus, mommy hit him with a open hand? He's crying because he was slapped? At that point you just have to surrender the concept of ever being a useful human being.
Now, when I was seven-ish, my mother punched my head against a wall hard enough to make my ears ring for a day. That hurt.

As for reviewer's seething misogyny, does anyone care at this point? It's basically a rote essay topic at this point, "why I am cool because I adhere to defunct and harmful principles."

What can you do when a woman hits you? Can't hit her back. Her blows might cut and bruise the face a little, depending on her strength, but when you hit her back you're gonna break bones. How is that going to look in a court of law? If a woman hits you, run. What else can you do?

What can you do when a woman hits you? Can't hit her back. Her blows might cut and bruise the face a little, depending on her strength, but when you hit her back you're gonna break bones. How is that going to look in a court of law? If a woman hits you, run. What else can you do?

awwwwwwww don't want your face messed up? lol Break her bones?
how fragile are the women you date?:shrug:
Run? what if she chases you? then what?

Xev:

I mean jesus, mommy hit him with a open hand? He's crying because he was slapped?


Where was he 'crying'?

He's merely pointing out a trend amongst abusive women, and those that support them. And that is, abusive women often blame the other party and feel little shame for their behaviour. 'You made me hit you! You were being a jerk/not sensitive to my needs.'

This in itself wouldn't be such a problem. Abusive men tend to think like that too (although more along the lines of 'You shouldn't be fucking nagging me'), although I've noticed the abusing men seem to feel a little more guilty about being an asshole. The difference is that abuse against women is stigmatized to the point where men will beat up anyone they suspect as woman abusers, whereas abuse against men is not.

What do most people think when a man hits a woman: "That bastard!"

What do most people think when a woman hits a man (or slices off his cock): "I wonder what he done to deserve it?"

Now, when I was seven-ish, my mother punched my head against a wall hard enough to make my ears ring for a day. That hurt.


I'm sorry that you suffered abuse when you were younger, Xev. Punching a seven year old child's head against the wall is a cowardly action, for a man or woman.


As for reviewer's seething misogyny,


He's merely pointing out a trend (or even more accurately, a social attitude) that he has experienced first hand. His experiences may not be representative of all women, but they are for the one's he's sampled.


does anyone care at this point? It's basically a rote essay topic at this point, "why I am cool because I adhere to defunct and harmful principles."


I agree that the principles are harmful and defunct. But read the experiences of the many men who have responded to abuse by their girlfriends/wives. Even when they do something as simple as restrain her, they are the ones who are arrested, charged and convicted of domestic abuse. Even worse, such accusations are used against them to get custody of the children.

It's not as simple as just breaking a 'defunct' social code. It's the entire legal process being slanted against you. It's the thought of being placed in a cell with Bubba the bank robber, who when he finds out you 'beat your wife'... well, we won't go there. Added to which, you won't be seeing your kids for a while.

Orleander:

If I ever caught my man cheating on me, the last thing he'd be worry about is if I would hit him.
He'd better worry if I have a knife on me.


I sympathize. If I ever came home to find my woman cheating on me, I'd blast her brains out with a 12 gauge. Then I'd plead temporary insanity in a court of law. They ought to buy it.

women should have equal rights in all respects of the word, im an equal oppertunist.

peace.

Orleander:


I sympathize. If I ever came home to find my woman cheating on me, I'd blast her brains out with a 12 gauge. Then I'd plead temporary insanity in a court of law. They ought to buy it.

Yeah, but they would say you had time to load and aim your gun. :shrug: Gonna have to bash her head in with a lamp or an alarm clock.

I sympathize. If I ever came home to find my woman cheating on me, I'd blast her brains out with a 12 gauge. Then I'd plead temporary insanity in a court of law. They ought to buy it.


Would you shoot her partner too?

Would you shoot her partner too?

He can't shoot his dad!!!:eek:
;)

or his best friend

I read the OP as mountainhare once again trying to play the victim, despite being a white male.

I see it as a continuation of his racist attitudes into misogyny.

It's basic fear of the other.

...It's basic fear of the other.

hmm, he's afraid of us women? I like that in a man!:bravo:

LMAO yeah if they have no fear we will get walked all over and taken
advantage of.

Orleander:


I sympathize. If I ever came home to find my woman cheating on me, I'd blast her brains out with a 12 gauge. Then I'd plead temporary insanity in a court of law. They ought to buy it.

How foolish. If I came home and found my man cheating on me, I'd only stop long enough to pick up my passport and bank papers, walk out go to my lawyer, file for separation or whatever the economic equivalent is in a living arrangement, move on with my life and never look back.

IMO, the best revenge is to live well and laugh much.

Xev:

Where was he 'crying'?

He's merely pointing out a trend amongst abusive women, and those that support them. And that is, abusive women often blame the other party and feel little shame for their behaviour. 'You made me hit you! You were being a jerk/not sensitive to my needs.'

He's using a single incident with his mom, which wasn't even that traumatic, to justify his disgusting social views. "Fairness is a concept that women can't understand?" Right.

This in itself wouldn't be such a problem. Abusive men tend to think like that too (although more along the lines of 'You shouldn't be fucking nagging me'), although I've noticed the abusing men seem to feel a little more guilty about being an asshole.

Hang out with a lot of wife-beaters, do you?

What do most people think when a man hits a woman: "That bastard!"

I can't make judgements about "most people." Apparently you're part of the Borg collective and I'm 7of9.

He's merely pointing out a trend (or even more accurately, a social attitude) that he has experienced first hand. His experiences may not be representative of all women, but they are for the one's he's sampled.

Three people? What grasp of sampling does this dude have? One of them wasn't even violent, and one was a girlfriend who slapped him.
Sorry, but your partner slaps you? That's foreplay, not assault.

How foolish. If I came home and found my man cheating on me, I'd only stop long enough to pick up my passport and bank papers, walk out go to my lawyer, file for separation or whatever the economic equivalent is in a living arrangement and move on with my life.

IMO, the best revenge is to live well and laugh much.

You're forgetting to empty the joint bank accounts. And calling the garbage/power/phone companies to get everything shut off. And calling the landlord and giving notice.

I don't think many ppl would be thinking that clearly if they just caught
their partner cheating on them.

If a girl hits me, I have every right to rip her heart out and eat it. Seriously now, she's a woman, not an idiot - she can tell right from wrong.

yeah i agree, if someone hits you, you have the right to defend yourself!

Self-defence must be proportional and reasonable to have a chance of standing up in a court of law.

If somebody hits you with their fist, and you then stab them with a knife, you may find yourself on thin ice when you're charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Similarly, if somebody punches you and then you beat them to an unconscious pulp, your self-defence argument may be on very shakey ground indeed.

And if you're a man and you've badly beaten a woman, I think you'll find most juries won't be sympathetic to your cries of self-defence.

If somebody hits you with their fist, and you then stab them with a knife, you may find yourself on thin ice when you're charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Similarly, if somebody punches you and then you beat them to an unconscious pulp, your self-defence argument may be on very shakey ground indeed.


Well there goes my Saturday night, thanks a lot James r. :rolleyes:

having "dont ever hit women" drilled into my head since birth nearly cost me. i hate having to strike down a woman, even in self defence. damn our old fashioned manly teaching.

peace.

You're forgetting to empty the joint bank accounts. And calling the garbage/power/phone companies to get everything shut off. And calling the landlord and giving notice.

The bulk of my money is tied up in land or investments; I wouldn't care about the paltry sums in accounts. As to the rest, well I have a passport, I'm out!

... As to the rest, well I have a passport, I'm out!

Oooo, good idea! Note to self: Get a passport BEFORE you kill him!

Killing him is too easy on him, he needs to suffer slowly...for a long time!

Oooo, good idea! Note to self: Get a passport BEFORE you kill him!

Bah, why bother? A guy like that is not worth throwing away your life for.

see now this is the true nature of women, the cold insides of steel. the only reason you gals get away with it is because you look so damn good. if women were not attractive to men, we would treat you like shit.


peace.

see now this is the true nature of women, the cold insides of steel. the only reason you gals get away with it is because you look so damn good. if women were not attractive to men, we would treat you like shit.


peace.

I'm willing to give 100% to a relationship, but I'm certainly not going to take crap in return. I have too much self respect for that.

Geez you guys lack perspective. Chances are, whoever your with has slept with people before you, and will do so when you break up. You'd really take another person's life over something as trivial as sex?

Geez you guys lack perspective. Chances are, whoever your with has slept with people before you, and will do so when you break up. You'd really take another person's life over something as trivial as sex?

It's not merely sex, but more so a commitment in a relationship. Either way, if a girl cheated on me, I'd impale her. 12 gauge is too messy.

It's not merely sex, but more so a commitment in a relationship. Either way, if a girl cheated on me, I'd impale her. 12 gauge is too messy.

Sure you would, internet tough guy.
If some macho asshole killed a friend of mine over something that stupid, I'd torture them to death.
I've got a few semesters of European History in the MIddle Ages under my belt, a decent working knowledge of anatomy, and my roomate majored in Medieval Studies. I'm sure I'd figure out something horrific.
Isn't it fun to be tough on the internet?

Sure you would, internet tough guy.
If some macho asshole killed a friend of mine over something that stupid, I'd torture them to death.

Isn't it fun to be tough on the internet?

Then if anyone sent the cops after me, I'd turn into a space moth and fly away.

I mean, Kadark, all of this presupposes that there are females who would touch you without payment. We're already in fantasy-land there.

Then if anyone sent the cops after me, I'd turn into a space moth and fly away.

I mean, Kadark, all of this presupposes that there are females who would touch you without payment. We're already in fantasy-land there.

You're right. No woman is permitted access to the likes of me without paying up. I'm a nice guy, so cash or cheque will do.

You're right. No woman is permitted access to the likes of me without paying up. I'm a nice guy, so cash or cheque will do.

Ah, I meant women who were sexually interested. Female scientists studying horrible genetic aberrations don't really count. :)

Ah, I meant women who were sexually interested. Female scientists studying horrible genetic aberrations don't really count. :)

I didn't notice the difference. :shrug:

I didn't notice the difference. :shrug:

They're usually wearing labcoats.

I would throw myself around abit after I killed him. Since i Bruise easily and terribly, I would tell the police he was beating me and I was just trying to defend myself.
"I didn't mean to kill him.....I really didn't" :bawl: ;)

shorty:

Would you shoot her partner too?


I think it's clear that I was joking. I was making fun of Orleander's comment about knifing her husband, and showing the hypocrisy. Society's reponse to hitting a cheating man: "You go girl!"

Society's reponse to hitting a cheating woman: "*gasp* Woman abuser!"

Xev:

He's using a single incident with his mom,


Well no. He's elaborated on three of his personal experiences. That doesn't mean that these three incidents are the only experiences he has used to form an opinion on the issue.


which wasn't even that traumatic,


Whether something is 'traumatic' depends on the victim, not you. Getting beaten by a parent at the age of 7 is traumatic, IMHO. Getting bullied by an abusive wife is also traumatic. But then again, my opinion on what constitutes 'traumatic' is worth squat. All that matters is whether the victim is actually traumatized. And clearly it left some damage.


to justify his disgusting social views. "Fairness is a concept that women can't understand?" Right.


I'm sorry, but you must have read a different article:


My father explained that fairness is a male value which most women do not understand or appreciate.

It's unclear as to whether the author actually believes such a thing. It's never explicitly stated. You could argue that it's implicit. I guess it depends how far you read between the lines.


I can't make judgements about "most people."


Why? Are you that separate from society? You aren't aware of cultural and behavioural norms? For example, you can't say that child molesterors are looked down upon as scum in our system of values?


Apparently you're part of the Borg collective and I'm 7of9.


Sadly I'm not a part of the Borg collective (or the Many-of-one, for the Planescape fans here), but I am capable of making a pretty good generalization of society's attitude to particular issue. For example, I don't need to be Borg to know that if a child molesteror proudly announces his previous crimes, he will hardly be given a friendly 'Hi' on the street.

For a man to hit a woman carries the same sort of stigma as child molestation.


Sorry, but your partner slaps you? That's foreplay, not assault.


It depends on the context.

James:
I read the OP as mountainhare once again trying to play the victim, despite being a white male.

I see it as a continuation of his racist attitudes into misogyny.

It's basic fear of the other.


WTF are you on about?

heh, I just remembered, while re-reading this thread, a poignant moment in my life. My sisters are 10 and 9 years older than me and I remember VERY well the day we watched what I WANTED TO WATCH on T.V that night.

I think it's clear that I was joking. I was making fun of Orleander's comment about knifing her husband, and showing the hypocrisy. Society's reponse to hitting a cheating man: "You go girl!"

Society's reponse to hitting a cheating woman: "*gasp* Woman abuser!"

I agree to a point. The "Ow! My balls!" part in Idiocracy is a fair indicator of the trend.
But there's a (IMO) horrific acceptance of violence against people we think of as "deserving" - whether it's a mobster being gunned down by a vigilante or a cheating spouse being physically harmed.
Besides, you could argue that while violence against men is treated as humorous, violence against women is used to sexify all manner of things. Any mainstream porn movie is as degrading to women than a mainstream comedy is to men.

Real social progress would come about from examining why we find degradation, unkindness and disrespect to be so utterly entertaining. PLUR, as they say in the rave scene.

Whether something is 'traumatic' depends on the victim, not you. Getting beaten by a parent at the age of 7 is traumatic, IMHO. Getting bullied by an abusive wife is also traumatic. But then again, my opinion on what constitutes 'traumatic' is worth squat. All that matters is whether the victim is actually traumatized. And clearly it left some damage.

My point was that the guy was a misogynistic wuss. Now, I might be traumatized by the fact that my vending machine ran out of V8, and that may be actually distressing, but I'm still a wuss regardless.

I'm sorry, but you must have read a different article:

"I remember saying that I did not think that was fair. My father explained that fairness is a male value which most women do not understand or appreciate."

Direct quote. I admit to skimming, as the writing style is mediocre and unworthy of any real effort, but he does go on to imply that all women are as "irrational" as the three that he portrays. If you disagree, I'll dig up more quotes.

Which is in itself stupid. You people stigmatize the naked display of emotion and you wonder why you're so vicious.
This is why I don't allow myself to get emotionally involved with men - the expression of emotion, except the most bland and positive, is treated as a weakness, a plunge into the irrational. And yet most of those strictures are in place to more readily allow violence.


Why? Are you that separate from society? You aren't aware of cultural and behavioural norms? For example, you can't say that child molesterors are looked down upon as scum in our system of values?

No, I'm just seeing both sides - I can also say that little girls are sexualized.

For a man to hit a woman carries the same sort of stigma as child molestation.

Not in my experience, but my background is fairly urban. We're a lot less hypocritical than the norm.

Whether you would hit someone or not should have nothing to do with their gender.

Regarding self-defence, it's the proportion of force - use less for weak people, more for strong. If they're much stronger: run away!

If you're angry with someone, it's wrong to lash out regardless of gender. It's temping to say 'more wrong' in the case of hitting someone who has little chance of successful retaliation / defence, but in reality the crime is in the intent - the mind - and not the action. Hence why true accidents will not be punished for.

If you want to cause harm to someone, it doesn't matter if they're 40 or 4, man or woman.

The only opposing argument, which isn't really opposing, is that an attack on someone physically inferior will likely cause more damage than an attack on an equal. Since this would be known by a sane attacker, attacking an inferior shows an acceptance that more damage will be inflicted and I would say that it is 'more wrong' to desire to inflict 'more damage'.

E.g. attacking a man who is anaesthetised is worse than attacking a weak but able-bodied woman.

Xev,

Sorry I didn't reply. This thread slipped out of my memory's existence, and Blue_UK just brought it back from the dead.


I agree to a point. The "Ow! My balls!" part in Idiocracy is a fair indicator of the trend.


I've never seen Idiocracy. :(

But there's a (IMO) horrific acceptance of violence against people we think of as "deserving" - whether it's a mobster being gunned down by a vigilante or a cheating spouse being physically harmed.


It's true that there are certain groups of people who society (in general) feel that had violence 'coming to them.'

The spouse harming scenario is an interesting case. In my experience, for a woman to physically abuse a man after discovering that he is cheating on her is viewed as 'acceptable', with cries of 'You go girl!' from females, and even males.

There was a post on another forum a while back about a woman cutting off her husband's penis, and several people responded with "I wonder what he did?" Automatically, people seem to search for justification. However, if the genders were reversed, we would see a knee-jerk outcry.

On the other hand, for a man to physically strike a woman after discovering that he is cheating on her is frowned upon in my part of society. I'm not sure how it works up there, but here, such behaviour is a good way to get your ass kicked, either by vigilante males or the cops.


Besides, you could argue that while violence against men is treated as humorous, violence against women is used to sexify all manner of things. Any mainstream porn movie is as degrading to women than a mainstream comedy is to men.


'You could argue', but you'd be oversimplifying the matter. It depends on context, and consent. IMHO, a husband breaking his wife's arm or slapping her in the face after discovering that she's been sleeping around isn't very sexually stimulating. A man spanking a woman on the ass during sexual intercourse is. Then again, a dominatrix with a whip is quite stimulating...


Real social progress would come about from examining why we find degradation, unkindness and disrespect to be so utterly entertaining.


But we don't find all degradation, unkindness and disrespect entertaining. And even what you call 'entertaining' violence inflicted on others isn't usually viewed as 'entertaining', but as 'justified'. That's my main gripe with this double standard. Violence against men perpetuated by women tends to be seen as justified (not humourous), whereas violence against women perpetuated by men is a big no no.

My point was that the guy was a misogynistic wuss.


I'd argue that living in an abusive relationship with your spouse, and then coming out bitter, doesn't make you a wuss. I think that's the event which triggered him to write the article, he just brought up the other two instances (which aren't at all traumatic) to try and explain the 'blameless' mentality of his ex-wife.

He is a misogynistic though, although, to be frank, it really doesn't bother me. I hear the word 'misogynistic' thrown about so much, that like 'racist, anti-semite, sexist', I no longer really care.


Which is in itself stupid. You people stigmatize the naked display of emotion and you wonder why you're so vicious.


'You people'?

Huh? Are you saying that all men stigmatize any display of emotion? That's not true.


This is why I don't allow myself to get emotionally involved with men - the expression of emotion, except the most bland and positive, is treated as a weakness, a plunge into the irrational.


That's complete nonsense. Although when you act purely on emotion, and forgo critical thinking when it is necessary for the situation at hand, that is a weakness.


And yet most of those strictures are in place to more readily allow violence.


I guess if you rationalise *really* hard, you could justify an act of violence. Although from what my own observations, most acts of violence occur during moments of raw emotion, where the individual does not think of the consequences.


No, I'm just seeing both sides - I can also say that little girls are sexualized.


Little girls may be sexualized. That doesn't change the fact that society views child molesterors as scum. To be frank, I'm not getting drawn into such an argument. I merely put forward this example to demonstrate that one can summarize an entire society's general attitude towards a particular topic.


Not in my experience, but my background is fairly urban. We're a lot less hypocritical than the norm.


Heh.

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.australiasaysno.gov.au/images/hdr/hdr_logo.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.australiasaysno.gov.au/booklet/viewBooklet/index.htm&h=103&w=241&sz=4&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=CZDFJ0iYQ3zEUM:&tbnh=47&tbnw=110&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dviolence%2Bagainst%2Bwomen%2Baustrali a%2Bsays%2Bno%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26s afe%3Doff

The 'Violence against women: Australia says no' Advertising Campaign has been spammed on our televisions and radios for months now. When I first saw the ads, I wondered "Why doesn't Australia say no to violence against ALL people, irregardless of gender?"

I've never gone and punched a woman.
I remember one time, a woman did go for me; started swing this hard-wood broom... very sore. I took the thing off her and snapped it. She looked like she was going to cry.

Hitting/beating freshman by their senior is a tradition, yes tradition, in almost
any collegue in my country, I could never understand that. It is now forbidden
in my university, but still happened terribly like here (http://ipdnwatch.wordpress.com/berita-dunia/more-parents-complain-about-violence-at-stpdn/), or here (http://zenc.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/law-enforcers-urged-to-protect-witness-of-violence-at-ipdn/), where every year
there are always injured student, and sometimes they died.

I did not study in that college, but when I entered my university, I also could
not escape from that tradition. I still remember that day, where all of us the
new students must standing under hot sun light while listening to this same
song each time: "one last cry... one last cry.. before I leave it all behind..."
and our senior start beating us with a bundle of newspaper. :(

They gave us irrational tasks and tried to find our mistakes, any mistakes
which could make them beat us. I was standing on second row because I am
short. Then suddenly, a senior beat my classmate who is shorter than me (so
he must stand in front of me). I could hear something break when the paper
hit him. Apparently, inside the bundle is a wood stick (I didnt know it before).
Then that friend felt down and his ears started to bleed, then I faint. I was
lucky that I faint so I could miss the rest of the events. :(

Ahh, ragging. Thank god we don't have that in Australia.

My brother will enter University this year, and I will ask a doctor friend who live in
my country to give my brother a sick leave during the tradition period. I dont know
though what will happen to other students. Although the violence tradition is now
forbidden in some collegues, in practice it does not really disappear.

...and Blue_UK just brought it back from the dead...

Ah should really have checked the date. That's what you get for absenteeism!

Self-defence must be proportional and reasonable to have a chance of standing up in a court of law.

If somebody hits you with their fist, and you then stab them with a knife, you may find yourself on thin ice when you're charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Similarly, if somebody punches you and then you beat them to an unconscious pulp, your self-defence argument may be on very shakey ground indeed.

And if you're a man and you've badly beaten a woman, I think you'll find most juries won't be sympathetic to your cries of self-defence.

Don't agree with that. If someone attacks you, it's their fault if they get their head kicked in. I mean, when you're fighting, you're not going to be worried about hurting them, you're going to incapacitate them however you can, that's just human instinct.

It's not merely sex, but more so a commitment in a relationship. Either way, if a girl cheated on me, I'd impale her. 12 gauge is too messy.

Impalement is cool. Very Death Metal. :D

I like violence.

I like violence.


I like turbulence

I like turbulence

I like seizures

I like seizures

seizures turn me on

all that clenching and tightening up huh?
perv

all that clenching and tightening up huh?
perv

:xctd:= :shake:

epileptic hookers, can it get any better than that?

Just don't try to get head from someone having a seizure...Mr. Happy doesn't like that.

epileptic hookers, can it get any better than that?

No, no it cant

epileptic hookers, can it get any better than that?

If they're 13 year old Thai hookers.

male Thai hookers Roman??
lol

I thought we were talking about hitting women?

maybe you were, I think we have moved on. :)

do 13 year olds count as women?

Men should never hit a woman.

Men should never hit a woman.

But it's fun.

Men should never hit a woman.

unless they really deserve it, or just wont shut up. :)

Ginger:

Men should never hit a woman.


Women should never leave the kitchen, except when going to the bedroom.

visceral_instinct:

Don't agree with that. If someone attacks you, it's their fault if they get their head kicked in. I mean, when you're fighting, you're not going to be worried about hurting them, you're going to incapacitate them however you can, that's just human instinct.

The test a court will apply is whether a reasonable person in the same position would have been expected to act the same way. If so, you're off the hook. If not, you've committed a crime.

visceral_instinct:



The test a court will apply is whether a reasonable person in the same position would have been expected to act the same way. If so, you're off the hook. If not, you've committed a crime.

I don't know much about how that works, but it sounds like guess work. When convicting something of anything in the US, and I think other places, there has to be certainty beyond reasonable doubt. I don't know how you could have that degree of certainty beyond where it is really obvious.

James R:

The test a court will apply is whether a reasonable person in the same position would have been expected to act the same way.


Yeah, but when you're being attacked, you're hardly 'reasonable'. One thinks of survival, not of 'Jee, how can I minimize harm to my attacker?'

Exhumed:

I don't know much about how that works, but it sounds like guess work. When convicting something of anything in the US, and I think other places, there has to be certainty beyond reasonable doubt. I don't know how you could have that degree of certainty beyond where it is really obvious.

Remember that self-defence is a defence to a criminal charge. What would happen is this: A guy threatens to punch you unless you give him your wallet. You pull out a gun and shoot him dead. You're charged with murder (or manslaughter). All the facts of the case establish that you intended to kill at the time, that you actually pulled the trigger etc. At this point, you're convicted beyond reasonable doubt. But, having established prima facie guilt, you plead self-defence as an excuse.

There's no requirement for the defence to prove things "beyond reasonable doubt". Rather, it is up to the prosecution. So, what the prosecution needs to show, beyond reasonable doubt, is that your claim of self-defence is either false or disproportionate or unreasonable considering all the circumstances. If they can't show that beyond reasonable doubt, you go free. If they can, you go down for murder.

mountainhare:

Yeah, but when you're being attacked, you're hardly 'reasonable'. One thinks of survival, not of 'Jee, how can I minimize harm to my attacker?'

That is taken into account. A court looks at all the circumstances, including how frightened a reasonable person would be in the same situation, what level of responsive violence would be reasonable in the circumstances, etc. etc.

'How frightened a reasonable person would be'? So it's a crime to be frightened?

Ginger:


Women should never leave the kitchen, except when going to the bedroom.

*stabs you to death. Waits for rigor mortis to set in, and rapes the corpse.*

This thread needs a:
~Homme contre La Femme Spatlese~


It is thousands of years of gender wars captured in a blue and pink bottle. Peculiar buzz, like you were witness to a (he vs. her) spitball fight. The walls of your inner-being spackled with useless wet facts on masticated paper. Contains no alcohol. Often used in place of birth control pills.

Whine List (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=75046)

I never hit a woman. and Nietzch...is whiny today...must be drinking wine.

if a woman hits a man then the man should hit back, its the way i'm affraid, i havent read the article, i will eventually,

but if you hit someone then you should expect it back, espiecially if you hit me,and i make my daughter live by that aswell.

'How frightened a reasonable person would be'? So it's a crime to be frightened?

Please read the entire post.

In case anyone is interested, the King of the womenbeaters has died.



Rock musician Ike Turner dies at 76
9 hours ago

Ike Turner, whose role as one of rock's critical architects was overshadowed by his ogre-like image as the man who brutally abused ex-wife Tina, died at his home in suburban San Diego.

Turner, 76, died at his San Marcos, California, home, Scott Hanover of Thrill Entertainment Group, which managed Turner's career, said.

Tina Turner refused to comment on her ex-husband's death.



http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jjZrGCdDOA6apRwtFtBY9Ovp84tg