(Islamists = radical Muslims)

Some of Arab Muslims Massacres, Terror & Genocide, before Israel was Re-established


Massacring the Maronite Christians in Lebanon (1860)
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2587/1860.html

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/lebanon/History/ottoman.htm

Early BLOODY Jihadi violence


http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/mike/mahdi1881.htm Mahdi's Jihad war Egypt/Ethiopia/Sudan 1881-1889

http://www.meforum.org/article/713 Islamic Beheadings in early history

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/11chapter3.shtml Algeria

MASSACRES


The 1915 massacre on Christian Armenians: http://armenian-genocide.org

The 1929 massacre of pious Jews in Hebron Israel http://www.hebron.org.il/1929/tarpat.htm

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/recruited.html Bosnian Moslems recruited the Nazi SS by Yasser Arafat's 'Uncle'

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/farhud.html The Farhud, the Mufti inspired Krystallnacht in Iraq, 1941

http://www.judeoscope.ca/article.php3?id_article=0390
65th Anniversary of the Baghdad anti-Jewish Pogrom (Mufti's legacy of Arab racism & Islamic Jihad) The Farhud: The forgotten Holocaust Pogrom

http://stevenplaut.terrorism%20without%20occupation,%20so me%20lessons%20from%20the%20early%20arab%20pogroms _/
Terrorism Without Occupation, Some Lessons From The Early Arab Pogroms

http://www.judeoscope.ca/breve.php3?id_breve=1551
Egyptian-Italian journalist: ’Hamas’ terror is not a reaction to the occupation "Israel’s right to exist is today the international criterion for distinguishing between the terrorist camp and the camp of life," says Magdi Allam, the Egyptian-Italian journalist and writer who is now visiting Israel.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+before+2000/Which+Came+First-+Terrorism+or+Occupation+-+Major.htm Terrorism came before (the so called) "occupation

_________


Miscellaneous...


http://www.fisiusa.org/fisi_News_items/Godhra/godhra034.htmConsider the 'provocation' forsimilar acts of Islamic barbarism in Kerala in 1921: the Moplah Rebellion inMalabar. There was no provocation by Hindus, who were minding their ownbusiness. However, in distant Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Pasha had abolished thecaliphate! This was the reason for the murder, rape and forcible conversion ofthousands of Hindus -- who were purely convenient bystanders -- and looting,arson and destruction of much property.


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5281 Muhammad and Massacre of the Qurayza Jews

A question for FREE ISRAEL...

What does your religious books say about a State of Israel?

Let's just say not "mine" or "yours".

1) The Bible is very Zionist, actually Zionism is based on the Bible (for Christians and Jews).

2) The Talmud is anti-Zionist, through it's interpertations, that's where the non Zionist religious Jews derive their ideology from, nothing to do with haters' anti-Zionism of course that only mask their all out hate for ALL Jews with that hypocritic title.
Still that doesn't stop the Muslim Palestinian terrorists from aiming to murder the non Zionist religious Jews' kids.

3) The Quran? you'd be surprised that it is ZIONIST too:

http://geocities.com/muslimsforisrael - Muslims for Israel

Even the Koran Affirms Jews' Rights to Jerusalem


Muslim critics of Israel often say that Jerusalem's holy sites must be
transferred to Muslim control, because of the central role they play in
Islamic theology. For instance, the Dome of the Rock was built on the site where Mohammed is believed to have ascended to Heaven to receive the revelation of the Koran.

However, these people seldom actually quote the Koran itself. This is
probably because the Koran actually supports Jewish claims. Here are several quotes straight from the Koran:

-Mohammed in Sura 5:21 quotes Moses telling the Jews to "enter into the holy land which Allah has assigned to you". While Mohammed later criticizes the Jews for their sins and their refusal to accept Mohammed's message, he never says that, as punishment, Allah has revoked their title to the land. Hence the title still stands, and Muslim anti-Zionists are apostates.

-A case could even be made that Israel's victory over the Arabs in the 1948 war was a judgement by Allah against the Arabs for their apostasy in opposing the Jews. This would be their just reward for transgressing Sura 2:190, which says, "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities."

-Moreover, Sura 60:9 forbids aiding the enemies of the Muslim people.
Contrast this with the Palestinians' continued support of Saddam Hussein, whose hands are red with the blood of Iranian, Kurdish, and Kuwaiti Muslims.

-The Jews' return from 19 centuries of exile is actually the fulfillment of
Islamic prophecy. Sura 17:104 says that "when the promise of the Hereafter comes to pass, We [Allah] shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations".

-Sura 17:4 says, "And We [Allah] gave (clear) warning to the children of
Israel in the Book, that twice would they do mischief on the earth and be
elated with mighty arrogance (and twice would they be punished)!" The
succeeding verses tell us that the punishment referred to was banishment from the land. But "twice" means twice, not three times; hence the Jews, having been banished from the land once by the Babylonians and a second time by Rome, will never again be banished from the land. According to the Koran, Israel is an eternal nation.
-Sura 83:1 says, "Woe to those that deal in fraud"; yet Yasser Arafat & Co.
reneged on his promise to guard Joseph's Tomb in Nablus after the Israeli troops withdrew.

-The Palestinians deny that there ever was a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. But Sura 17:7 records the destruction of the First Temple by Babylon and the Second Temple by Rome, and Mohammed never contests the Bible's claim that the Temples were in Jerusalem.

"Bear in mind the words of Moses to his people. He said: 'Remember, my people, the favor which Allah has bestowed upon you. He has raised up prophets among you, made you into kings, and given to you that which He has given to no other nation. Enter, my people, the Holy Land which Allah has assigned for you. Do not turn back, or you shall be ruined.'" (Koran 5:20-21); and: "Thereafter We said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land, and when the Promise of the Hereafter is near fulfillment, We shall gather you all together.'" (Koran 17:104)

See also:
http://chayas.com/koran.htm

Let's just say not "mine" or "yours".

1) The Bible is very Zionist, actually Zionism is based on the Bible (for Christians and Jews).

2) The Talmud is anti-Zionist, through it's interpertations, that's where the non Zionist religious Jews derive their ideology from, nothing to do with haters' anti-Zionism of course that only mask their all out hate for ALL Jews with that hypocritic title.
Still that doesn't stop the Muslim Palestinian terrorists from aiming to murder the non Zionist religious Jews' kids.

3) The Quran? you'd be surprised that it is ZIONIST too:

http://geocities.com/muslimsforisrael - Muslims for Israel

Even the Koran Affirms Jews' Rights to Jerusalem


Muslim critics of Israel often say that Jerusalem's holy sites must be
transferred to Muslim control, because of the central role they play in
Islamic theology. For instance, the Dome of the Rock was built on the site where Mohammed is believed to have ascended to Heaven to receive the revelation of the Koran.

However, these people seldom actually quote the Koran itself. This is
probably because the Koran actually supports Jewish claims. Here are several quotes straight from the Koran:

-Mohammed in Sura 5:21 quotes Moses telling the Jews to "enter into the holy land which Allah has assigned to you". While Mohammed later criticizes the Jews for their sins and their refusal to accept Mohammed's message, he never says that, as punishment, Allah has revoked their title to the land. Hence the title still stands, and Muslim anti-Zionists are apostates.

-A case could even be made that Israel's victory over the Arabs in the 1948 war was a judgement by Allah against the Arabs for their apostasy in opposing the Jews. This would be their just reward for transgressing Sura 2:190, which says, "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities."

-Moreover, Sura 60:9 forbids aiding the enemies of the Muslim people.
Contrast this with the Palestinians' continued support of Saddam Hussein, whose hands are red with the blood of Iranian, Kurdish, and Kuwaiti Muslims.

-The Jews' return from 19 centuries of exile is actually the fulfillment of
Islamic prophecy. Sura 17:104 says that "when the promise of the Hereafter comes to pass, We [Allah] shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations".

-Sura 17:4 says, "And We [Allah] gave (clear) warning to the children of
Israel in the Book, that twice would they do mischief on the earth and be
elated with mighty arrogance (and twice would they be punished)!" The
succeeding verses tell us that the punishment referred to was banishment from the land. But "twice" means twice, not three times; hence the Jews, having been banished from the land once by the Babylonians and a second time by Rome, will never again be banished from the land. According to the Koran, Israel is an eternal nation.
-Sura 83:1 says, "Woe to those that deal in fraud"; yet Yasser Arafat & Co.
reneged on his promise to guard Joseph's Tomb in Nablus after the Israeli troops withdrew.

-The Palestinians deny that there ever was a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. But Sura 17:7 records the destruction of the First Temple by Babylon and the Second Temple by Rome, and Mohammed never contests the Bible's claim that the Temples were in Jerusalem.

"Bear in mind the words of Moses to his people. He said: 'Remember, my people, the favor which Allah has bestowed upon you. He has raised up prophets among you, made you into kings, and given to you that which He has given to no other nation. Enter, my people, the Holy Land which Allah has assigned for you. Do not turn back, or you shall be ruined.'" (Koran 5:20-21); and: "Thereafter We said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land, and when the Promise of the Hereafter is near fulfillment, We shall gather you all together.'" (Koran 17:104)

See also:
http://chayas.com/koran.htm

Excellent argument!!

I think the questions you have to ask yourself, Free Israel, are these . . .

Palestine was mandated to British administration by the League of Nations in 1923. I imagine that the fellows who went out there to take charge were pretty decent on the whole, though the more senior a little too full of conceit of their own superiority, I daresay. (I used to know some of the people who had administered Malaya prior to its independence, and they rather impressed me on the whole.)

Now why do you think it was that these fair-minded British civil officials overwhelmingly sympathised with the Palestinian Arab population during the burgeoning conflict between Arab and Jew? Why do you suppose they found the ingress of European and American Jews, with their gun-runners, modern weapons, and terror gangs, a hateful invasion of a land of simple pious and stoical farmers artisans and traders following a centuries old way of life? Why do you suppose that they felt they had deserted an Arab populace for whom they felt an affection when a war-weary Britain abandoned them following the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 and other atrocities by Jewish terrorists?

And if you have any doubts about the sympathies of the those Britons who observed at first hand the birth pains of the State of Israel, I suggest you consult the British press of the period. There were plenty of pro-Israel opinions; many people seemed to be pro-Zionist on the grounds of the Holocaust -- a tenuous thread of logic! Those ordinary fellows who were witness to the Jewish land-grab mostly felt pretty sick.

Free world of israel and palestine. Enough of their war, lets make the whole place back into a desert, dry the lakes...the rivers...dont trade with these countries. Make them leave the place. Heck with holy Jerusalem...its a devil's city and not jesus's.

Excellent argument!!
I'd be a bit wary of using religion to justify a state - what's to stop me from writing the Book of Zephyr according to which I made the world - and now I want it back? :p

IMO, Israel has a right to exist because it exists. But it seems unfair to implement a 'law of return' that allows Jewish people to gain instant citizenship while Palestinians whose parents were born there can look upon the promised land but not enter.

I know the point of that law is to give refuge to Jews should they be persecuted, but surely Israel could let refugees in without giving non-refugees instant citizenship? Others who want to move there could go through the same immigration processes normal countries use...

Those ordinary fellows who were witness to the Jewish land-grab mostly felt pretty sick.
That's ironic, given that the Brits grabbed Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America ... just slightly more land in terms of area, I think :p

That's ironic, given that the Brits grabbed Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America ... just slightly more land in terms of area, I think :pYou may find it ironic, but it is also irrevelant in the context of this thread, and does not remove the need for Free Israel to provide an answer to my questions.

River Ape, why is the 1880's Arab settlers that most of the so called "Palestinians" ancestrors' origin is of, not called "land grab"?
Was there ever in history an Arab "Palestinian" independent sovereign entity in Israel?
Answer is, Arab "Palestinian" propaganda starts with the language of deception.
Such as the "human rights watch" a known mouthpiece for "Palestinian" terrorists groups issuing out, every so often, "statements" denegrating Israel the victim.

BTW
No one would use the term: "American" or "Australian" OCCUPATION.

Sorry to have to tell you RiverApe, Free Israel's previous reply is far greater than any of your "questions".

River Ape, why is the 1880's Arab settlers that most of the so called "Palestinians" ancestrors' origin is of, not called "land grab"?

It did not happen. This Idea that "most" Palestinians are descended from recent Arab immigrants is just wrong.


Was there ever in history an Arab "Palestinian" independent sovereign entity in Israel?

No, "Palestinian" was not a Palestinian word. Other than some perhaps short lived states like crusader states the Hasmonean Jewish state was the last independent state in the area now called Israel. Prior to the Hasmonean state and prior to the rise of the large empires there had been many independent states in what is now Israel.

If Jews can remain Jews while occupied and while scattered arround the world then can't the Palestinian people remain the Palestinian people while occupied by the Turks even if the people had no name for themselves. Then they were called south Syrians, now they are called Palestinians.


Answer is, Arab "Palestinian" propaganda starts with the language of deception.
Such as the "human rights watch" a known mouthpiece for "Palestinian" terrorists groups issuing out, every so often, "statements" denegrating Israel the victim.

Human Rights watch is not anti-American or anti-Israeli. They just are not lying down for the pro Israeli propaganda that you would like to believe is the truth.


BTW
No one would use the term: "American" or "Australian" OCCUPATION.

Sorry to have to tell you RiverApe, Free Israel's previous reply is far greater than any of your "questions".
I would use the term occupation for what happened in America. The Native American ethnic cleansing and Native American genocide/Holocaust happened prior to the modern ethical standards of international behavior. The modern standards in which genocide becomes wrong in all circumstances (except perhaps if the genocide is between African peoples of no strategic or religious significance) is an outgrowth of the worlds feelings about Hitler and the Jewish Holocaust.

My ancestors participated in the ethnic cleansing and genocide of the native inhabitants of New England region of America during "King Philips War". I can admit that. My ancestors did a ugly thing and I benefitted. I would not now be willing to compensate the survivors of the Native New Englanders for the harm caused to their ancestors and them by their forced removal from their lands. I am willing to give up the fictitious history that justified my ancestors unjustifiable behavior. Can you give up your fictitious history?

I am willing to give up the fictitious history that justified my ancestors unjustifiable behavior. Can you give up your fictitious history?
I believe that's the goal of post-Zionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-Zionism). (The second meaning; see also New Historians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Historians))