There are these two hardcore family who strongly believe in reincarnation - literally. If reincarnation have found scientific proof, more lawyers will need to understand not only criminal law, property law, business law, but the law of reincarnation in human society.

Let's called the families the "Soun" and "Thy" family. The Souns and Thy were once neighbor, albiet had a lot of conflicts. The Souns consist of a couple (father/mother) and a young boy (age 9). The Thy's are just recently married couple - no kids. The Soun always thought they were higher-class than their neighbor - the Thy's. The Soun would sometimes talk behind their back. Both would always talk behind each other back - the Thy's even threat to take away the Soun's 9 yr. old misbehaving and rude boy to a child support service.

A few years later, Soun's only son died in an accident by falling down a sharp object which landed near his heart. The Soun's sought psychics who told them their son is not dead spiritually but alive here on this world. Confused, the Soun must've thought he must've been alive in heaven or reincarnated somewhere. During this time, the Thy's family was pregnant.

Years went by and Soun and Thy are still bad neighbor. Now, the Thy had a son. As the Thy's son was playing outside without his shirt, the Souns' notice a SIGNIFICANT birthmark on the Thy's son - birthmark that strikely resemble the area in which the knife that killed the Soun's son. Additionally, the young Thy's boy misbehaving personality seemingly resemble that of the Soun's deceased son. Both the Soun's and Thy's decided to discuss this issue about the possiblity of reincarnation.

Autospy examination has reveal mathematical precision in the area Soun's son was penetrated and the birthmark of Thy's young son on the chest. Yet, the mortician do not see how it has anything to do with reincarnation. Both Thy's and Soun's decided to investigate this further with New-Agers, monks, spiritualists for this matter - all of whom indicate reincarnation as a possiblity.

The Soun's now believe that their deceased son must've reincarnated to the Thy's young son at the moment they became pregnant. At this point, these two families are in legal battle and seeking justice authority to determine who's the true ownership of the young boy. They have try to seek a lawyer who's familar with the law of reincarnation, yet have not found such lawyers who believe such a thing seriously to handle in court cases. The Soun's even attempted to kidnap the Thy's son.

The Soun firmly believe their son is reincarnated to the Thy's and want their beloved son back. The Thy's argue that because the wife gave birth, it should belong to them (Thy's). Some people have even talk about Karma being the reason why they are in this situation.

The questions: Does the young boy belong to the Soun's spiritually? Does the young boy belong to the Thy's genetically? Should they both raise the son? Or, is this a worst care of the interpretation of reincarnation?

I believe in reincarnation, but not of individuals, since from the standpoint of Buddhism, the individual is an illusion. There is no soul or spiritual realm, only endless cycles of proteins and amino acids. If this is the case, then everyone is responsible for everything.

I am so confused about the opening post, heh.

Anyways, I believe in reincarnation. I believe whatever is powering us humans, let's call it a soul, for lack of a better word, since it's commonly believed that.

Once we die, our soul goes floating around in the universe looking for a way to create itself again. No heaven, nope. Perhaps being in that form seems like heaven, who knows.

Anyways, we float around in our souls doing our souly things until we find another soul we like and decide to bump uglies with one another and we bond to form an atom or whatever that next step is to get us closer to being the end form we want to be, whether it's a human, dog, tree, rock, whatever.

Basically everything is an endless loop and our energy is recycled over and over. We're all one and the same. Creation is never-ending. Something's gonna explain how while old things die, new things are created. Why doesn't anything ever run out? Some form of recycled energy is all I can come up with, or in other words, reincarnation.

- N

The questions: Does the young boy belong to the Soun's spiritually? Does the young boy belong to the Thy's genetically? Should they both raise the son? Or, is this a worst care of the interpretation of reincarnation?

The boy is No more spiritually the Souns than he is the Thy's.
If reincarnation is real, the boy before he was the Souns son could have been the Thy's father/mother/grandfather/aunt...you get where this is going? They'd have to prove that the boys FIRST existance on the earthly plane was as the Souns son, impossible.

The boy is Thy's genetically and if you believe in spirit, then this spirit belongs to god not the Souns.

I am so confused about the opening post, heh.

Anyways, I believe in reincarnation. I believe whatever is powering us humans, let's call it a soul, for lack of a better word, since it's commonly believed that.

Once we die, our soul goes floating around in the universe looking for a way to create itself again. No heaven, nope. Perhaps being in that form seems like heaven, who knows.

Anyways, we float around in our souls doing our souly things until we find another soul we like and decide to bump uglies with one another and we bond to form an atom or whatever that next step is to get us closer to being the end form we want to be, whether it's a human, dog, tree, rock, whatever.

Basically everything is an endless loop and our energy is recycled over and over. We're all one and the same. Creation is never-ending. Something's gonna explain how while old things die, new things are created. Why doesn't anything ever run out? Some form of recycled energy is all I can come up with, or in other words, reincarnation.

- N
Thats a cool way of thinking!

There are these two hardcore family who strongly believe in reincarnation - literally. If reincarnation have found scientific proof, more lawyers will need to understand not only criminal law, property law, business law, but the law of reincarnation in human society.

Nice post. I think of death and reincarnation as nature's way of cleaning the slate. Imagine if people were immortal once born. Then some cultures (like the US) might still give life sentences (i.e. never-ending) for some crimes.

Hopefully there is no way to prove reincarnation so the lawyers are kept at bay. It seems that there is lots of evidence that life never really ends, but no hard evidence is possible, and I like to think that that's by design.

yes, it can't be proven. however, if it was, he would still belong to the Thy's since his most previous "existence" is with them. The Soun's had their time with their son and now it is the Thy's turn.
as for you, neildo, that is a very interesting standpoint. ever read Out of the Silent Planet? i feel that our souls are just energy and that our heaven is in fact floating around in the bliss of being unrestricted by our flesh, one with the creator or the source, whichever you prefer. we are everything, which explains the energy conservation theory and when we die we go back into everything. all you christians out there, in the bible heaven is defined as being one or near God and hell the exact opposite, distant from or out of the sight of God. we came from the dust and we return to it. it's all about rising from and falling back into our "environment" or surroundings for lack of a better word.
in the book i sited earlier, the god of the alien planet "shimmered". it seemed to fade in and out of the dimension. when the creatures there died they joined that god in the dimension it would sometimes partially manifest from and become a part of it.
very interesting.

The post reveals an absence of knowledge about karma - the whole point of reincarnation is that it is the very prototype for our mundane sense of justice- for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. There is no need to apply mundane justice to reincarnation because it is the essence of pure justice to begin with.

Even if it could be proved who the child was in a previous life time, it still remains, after all, "the previous life time". It is just like supposing you moved from a mansion to a crumby flat - you can't say "well I used to live in a mansion therefore society is obliged to provide me with a mansion" - who cares what you used to be - its what you are now that matters. What would happen if it was determined that the child had taken birth as a pig in China?

What are the rational claims that a parent could stake to claiming their child in a future incarnation? The child obviously had a previous mother and father before them to begin with. Every living entity has had millions of mothers and fathers in the past, and until it look s likely that they will come to the spiritual platform, they will have million s in the future too.

The post reveals an absence of knowledge about karma - the whole point of reincarnation is that it is the very prototype for our mundane sense of justice- for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. There is no need to apply mundane justice to reincarnation because it is the essence of pure justice to begin with.

Even if it could be proved who the child was in a previous life time, it still remains, after all, "the previous life time". It is just like supposing you moved from a mansion to a crumby flat - you can't say "well I used to live in a mansion therefore society is obliged to provide me with a mansion" - who cares what you used to be - its what you are now that matters. What would happen if it was determined that the child had taken birth as a pig in China?

What are the rational claims that a parent could stake to claiming their child in a future incarnation? The child obviously had a previous mother and father before them to begin with. Every living entity has had millions of mothers and fathers in the past, and until it look s likely that they will come to the spiritual platform, they will have million s in the future too.


yeah...that's what i meant. :D

I believe in reincarnation of souls, but the thy get to keep their son because they own his body. He is part of their blood family. If the soun's son reincarnated that time he must have done it alot more times then that. The soun's can't claim ownership because their claim was the body that had the spirit of their son.

I believe in reincarnation of souls, but the thy get to keep their son because they own his body. He is part of their blood family. If the soun's son reincarnated that time he must have done it alot more times then that. The soun's can't claim ownership because their claim was the body that had the spirit of their son.

bizzare?

What's bizzare? I don't think a human gets reincarnated into an animals body ever! I think there are separate spirits of different species. The cycle remains in the species.

What makes you say humans don't get reincarnated into animals (or vice versa)? What do you actually understand of the word "soul"? On what authority do you base your conclusions?

The soul of anything while in a body learns and experiences. Then when it is done it dies. We humans are too intelligent to be trapped inside an animal. We were each made with a certain amount of intelligence. The intelligence of an animal will never match that of a human. a soul is not meant to be inside any other body then what it was created to be in.

The soul of anything while in a body learns and experiences. Then when it is done it dies. We humans are too intelligent to be trapped inside an animal. We were each made with a certain amount of intelligence. The intelligence of an animal will never match that of a human. a soul is not meant to be inside any other body then what it was created to be in.

Seems like you are confusing the mind with the soul - the soul actually doesn't have to learn anything except that it has no eternal connection with the body it is inhabiting - the problem is that the soul, due to ignorance, identifies with th etemporary body, thus a soul in a dog is thinking "I am a dog" and a soul in a human body is thinking that "I am a human" - actually we have so many false conceptions in relation to the body "I am man/woman, chinese/russian, old/young, beautiful/ugly" etc etc - its the same principle that animates all life that is called the soul, that is what makes us distinct from inanimate matter like tables, chairs and microphone stands

The soul is inelligent and learns. Thats what it means to have a body. When it is a spirit meaning when the body dies it remebers everything that it has done in all its lifetimes. It chooses to reside in a certain type of person just to experience and learn from that person's life. When a soul is a spirit meaning the body is dead, the spirit remebers everything. When in a body there is sort of an amnesia, it forgets everything of where its been in other lifetimes and even as a spirit where its been.

If the soul is intangible and infinite, then how could something infinite and non-physical be restrained to time which is only the idea of cause and effect?
In other words, what would the difference between two different souls be?
As I see it, there can't be any difference between two infinite intangible things, so there is no reason to differentiate between my identical soul being reincarnated as a dog or your identical soul as a cat.

The soul is the consiciousness. If the soul were to leave, the body or mind would not function. The body would be useless and it is not a person anymore.

If the soul is intangible and infinite, then how could something infinite and non-physical be restrained to time which is only the idea of cause and effect?
In other words, what would the difference between two different souls be?
As I see it, there can't be any difference between two infinite intangible things, so there is no reason to differentiate between my identical soul being reincarnated as a dog or your identical soul as a cat.


There is a spiritual distinction between god and the living entity - in otherwords they are eternally seperate catergories, god being the sustainer and the living entity being the sustained (katha upanisad 2.2.13)- you could describe god as infinite, but the living entity is described as unborn, eternal, primeval and ever existing (Bhagavad gita 2.20).

In other words the living entity has the same quality of god (eternal etc) but not the same quantity (infinite, omnipresent etc)

The difference between a cat and a person is that due to one course of action under the laws of karma someone is awarded a cat's body and someone lese is awared a human body.

The soul is inelligent and learns. Thats what it means to have a body. When it is a spirit meaning when the body dies it remebers everything that it has done in all its lifetimes. It chooses to reside in a certain type of person just to experience and learn from that person's life. When a soul is a spirit meaning the body is dead, the spirit remebers everything. When in a body there is sort of an amnesia, it forgets everything of where its been in other lifetimes and even as a spirit where its been.

The soul is distinct from intelligence and mind -Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego—all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.BG 7.4 - the soul is cognizant by nature but due to an atmosphere of illusion that inherent nature is covered just like the sun globe can appear to be covered by clouds

What's bizzare? I don't think a human gets reincarnated into an animals body ever! I think there are separate spirits of different species. The cycle remains in the species.

haven't read much on the subject. but i had a dog, the only dog i have ever liked, and i loved him with everything i had in me. when he looked at me...he wasn't just a dog. couldn't be. he was too smart, too sensitive, too everything to be a mere dog.

aniamls portray characteristics of humans because they are living, thinking, breathing
organisms.

aniamls portray characteristics of humans because they are living, thinking, breathing
organisms.

So the question is there that if an animal displays the same symptoms of life as a human (and also the same symptoms after death) wouldn't it indicatethey are active by the same potency, ie the soul?

The soul might be no more than a bunch of frequencies that just happen to exist all around us. I will not surmise as to where they might come from at this juncture.

As an example, just picture the frequencies/codes being transmitted over the internet and just imagine that there are no computers connected to the web anywhere, except just for this one server connected to a small group of users that's pumping out information. All the other computers in the world are like soulless beings, but as soon as they connect to the server they acquire soul.

Maybe living organisms are like computers that as soon as they're conceived are automatically connected to unique sites on this ethereal universal web and thereby acquire a soul. When the organism dies, its connection (energy) merely transfers to another-similar organism at its moment of conception.

The soul transceives information with the 'server' during the whole of its existence, both receiving and transmitting information that A) guides the organism in all manner of things and B) adds to the knowledge already contained in the server... knowledge that is used for wish fulfilment, mutations and evolution.

But i am saying because humans and animals have the living and breathing things in common, they display characteristics that are similar to each other, the soul cycle is different for each species.

but the differences pertain to the body only - I mean they display the exact same symptoms of life - its only the application of their life force that is different, not the life force itself

yeah

I just don't think that the intelligence of a human being can ever match an animal. I think the human soul remebers everything it learned when residing in a body(always human) and to put the soul inside the body of an animal would feel wrong and the soul would feel trapped. If souls were created first and then bodies they had to have a shape. An animal soul would have their own unique shape and therefore can only be in that shape of a body. A human can only be in a human body. Souls in their own species can change gender if they want to.

I just don't think that the intelligence of a human being can ever match an animal. I think the human soul remebers everything it learned when residing in a body(always human) and to put the soul inside the body of an animal would feel wrong and the soul would feel trapped. If souls were created first and then bodies they had to have a shape. An animal soul would have their own unique shape and therefore can only be in that shape of a body. A human can only be in a human body. Souls in their own species can change gender if they want to.

it was always my assumption that souls were a sort of energy and that energy has no real shape. as far as the intelligence of animals. i don't think that animals are less intelligent. perhaps intelligent in a different way but not less so. parrots can speak and they have been trained (i use that word in case you won't accept "taught" but what is teaching but training?) to identify shapes, colors, textures, size, and all combinations of them. they can tell the difference between a car and a truck and differentiate between their trainers by name. are these parrots any less intelligent? or are they merely working with what they have? :D

Souls can't be mere energy. They are smarter than a human in the sense that they remember everything and they aren't limited to our plane of existence. The reason is because the souls are old they have been around for a long time. when the human race dies out thet will remember what is was like to be human and carry that experience into whatever they will do next.
I didn't mean to insult animals and I did mean they are less intelligent in the sense that they are missing things that we have. like the ability to create and imagine. Things humans are known for and anmals simply can't do. A human soul would never want to be trapped in an animals body because it would be too limited for a human.

Souls can't be mere energy. They are smarter than a human in the sense that they remember everything and they aren't limited to our plane of existence. The reason is because the souls are old they have been around for a long time. when the human race dies out thet will remember what is was like to be human and carry that experience into whatever they will do next.
I didn't mean to insult animals and I did mean they are less intelligent in the sense that they are missing things that we have. like the ability to create and imagine. Things humans are known for and anmals simply can't do. A human soul would never want to be trapped in an animals body because it would be too limited for a human.

Just a question sgal, on what basis do you draw up your picture of the soul?

Do you rely on logic or thinking?
Do you rely on some other body of work, (scripture or otherwise)?
Do you rely on what you have taught or heard?

Just asking because when you say things like "souls are old" and give explanations on what the soul can and cannot do or be it tends to lead to an examination on what basis you say these statements

Its my logic. If the universe is old then so are souls. Everything must have been created at the same time. That I got from the bible. I just think it would be wasteful that a human soul would want to become an animal when it is more intelligent then that.

Its my logic. If the universe is old then so are souls. Everything must have been created at the same time. That I got from the bible. I just think it would be wasteful that a human soul would want to become an animal when it is more intelligent then that.

Even in this life you can see that there are places and situations you don't want to be and ways how to get there - what to speak of the next .....

Its my logic. If the universe is old then so are souls. Everything must have been created at the same time. That I got from the bible. I just think it would be wasteful that a human soul would want to become an animal when it is more intelligent then that.

yes, the bible says that universe is old. hell, science says that. the bible also says that man, as in the species, was created somewhere toward the beginning of all this, but the bible does not say that souls are recycled. it says that when people die they wait for judgement day and then, depending on the quality of their lives, they go to heaven or hell.

There were early christian scholars, like Origen, who had ideas akin to reincarnation - but they got axed by a political manouvere and their teachings didn't get absorbed into the bible -