Where have our values gone? We worship sex and scandal in modern culture. I don't understand why people love these things so much. What about self dignity? What about love? it seems they are no longer existant in our culture. What has happen to us? We live in such a dirty place when you compare the beautiful earth to the humans that live on it. People grow more and more fond of them selves instead of remembering that there are others around them. People are sick and perverted and self centered. What do you think?

Do you know how long that belief has been circulating? I think the earliest recorded person to make a similar statement was Aristotle(maybe someone could correct me). If such were truly the case we would have been gone along time ago we are humans and humans are nostalgic.

We worship sex

isn't this one the forces that has been worshipped since the dawn of mankind?

your little icon proves my point, humans are sick, you are right.

Yep, better not visit my website, or read what I am up too normally.

It is now thursday. There hasn't been a day I haven't been drinking in the bar and fornicating with strange women. Well, trying to fornicate. Had to reject the one woman that wanted to fornicate with me, because she thought she was interesting in a highly arrogant manner. I'm not that desperate.

sorry I wasnt talking about your icon, iwas talking about the guy humping the goat

yeah...but pirates are more morally degraded than goat humpers.



I think society is degrading because of television (here we go again many people are thinking right now).

Human society degrades? Well, I guess that is a matter of perspective. Personally, I do not think that it has changed that much, but tales about the good old days tend to leave out the unmsightly things.

Also, weren´t there gods worshipped for sexual success and such things? There must be a reason for all those phallic symbol god pictures, and godesses with two to some hundred breasts?

Those Gods represented the union between man and women. Today's society is much different some emne could care less about the women that they are sleeping with. Those Gods were also symbols of respect between the balance Man and Woman. It wasnt all about just going around and having sex to make the Gods happy. Plus those Gods dont exist anyway.

Plus those Gods dont exist anyway.

How do you know that?

Thats personal belief, people want to believe in them just say they can have sex. those religions still exist but only in small quantities. They are pretty much dead.

i meant so* not say

I just stick to atheism actually. It also means you can have just sex.

I dont see life that way but you are entitled too i suppose. I wont just belive something so that I can do something else.It doesnt make much sense but we are all entitled to our own opinions

Well, about the issue of degradation, sex is one of our basic instincts, in fact, it is one of the main reasons we exist and keep existing. So I do not see a problem in valuing sex.

What about self dignity? What about love?

What about it? If you ask me, dignity and love are concepts that were created by mankind, just like gods and laws. And those concepts change over time, just like our society does.

I don't understand why people love these things so much.

We love it so much because we like to point at others to laugh, so we do not have to admit our own mistakes and faults. (which are mostly synthetical)

I agree with Spurious to some extend. I believe in myself, which obviously makes me an atheist. But that also means I live by my own standarts and rules, so I can do what I want without being ashamed of hypocrisy, something most people are.

I believe in myself, which obviously makes me an atheist. But that also means I live by my own standarts and rules, so I can do what I want without being ashamed of hypocrisy, something most people are.

It actually took me 33 years to figure this out.

Really? Well, took me about 18, 19 years. Still much too long I think, looking back.

Well, better late than never.

I guess i just see things differently

How can you have self dignity if you don't love yourself?

I am not an atheist. You are totally entitled to you own opinion but i just see it as selfish. Think of the youth now look how twelve year olds dress. They want to be like all those older girls who dress like sluts. This is degrading, people think it is ok. I just dont see it that way

What is wrong with dressing like sluts specifically?

Every humans action is selfish, that is our nature.

But you are right with your example, alas, I think that sex is not really to blame for the behaviour of those girls, I would blame their parents and the TV programm, those girls probably saw the firts one not enough and the second one much longer than it is good for them.

I have morals against it. It degrades women. In my opinion, its just not attractive it takes the beauty away from them. Women who are truly beauiful dont need to flaunt it, you can just tell

I agree with you dreawalker ,my reference is to monkey

I told you already in the beginning that TV is to blame.

We should all go out and drink more.

I agree with that statement.

Along the same vein as spurious, I'd like to introduce a point (you're free to "tag along"). I get the feeling that selfishness is a bit overrated these days. Every morning I see everyone at school and some other places walking around like an ant colony where everyone's in auto pilot just trying to move towards simple and plain survival when really much of our needs are already taken care for.

As an example, pretty much anywhere I have the habit of opening the door for others and, at school everyone just passes by and takes it for granted (without even muttering "oh", much less "thanks") as if they were entitled to having someone open the door for them. I am not offended, rather puzzled by this. From my general experience, it seems that everyone is losing their sense of "otherhood", and while it is true that if we are meant to take care of ourselves because noone else will, we are also forgetting the next step: taking care of each other.

Also, think of social Darwinism, more and more people tend to prefer dominant type people, while the meek are taken for granted. I was having this conversation last weekend with friends as how many people we know that are by far kinder than most other people we can think of, and are often regarded as the ones in the group that everyone else can boss around and often mistreat. Come to think of it, the submissive types (in some of the cases, not all) perhaps possess a greater inner strenght than the "top dog" types in order to bypass their own will and act in the service of others.

I know we are selfish to the core, selfishness is part of us but it'd be best to stop putting such a high price on it.

Coffee is also overrated. $50 USD in Paypal cash for someone who can torch a Starbucks.

If only we really did worship sex, but I don't think we do. Scandal can also be interesting. The problem is that the tools of marketing have transformed the natural and real into surface and image. Marketing is a race to the bottom (and not in a good way), to the lowest common denominator. The best thing you can do is not participate in the culture. I don't think we really are self-centered, all our energy is directed at impressing others.

I will just continue with a rant on the evilness of TV and other matters in the hope I might touch the subject at hand a bit:


People are apparently really busy nowadays.

They have to go home immediately after work. I ask them why. They are busy. The next day I ask them what they did. Basically nothing. Cooked dinner, ate, watched TV. Then they ask what I did. I was out all evening having fun with my friends, often with very weird stories to tell. They ask can I join you. I say sure. The next day they are busy again.

repeat repeat repeat indefinitely.

I need to make an appointment apparently 2 weeks in advance. No people. It doesn't work like that. It is a state of mind. You either open yourself up to experiencing things or you don't.


people lost sense of what is important. And that is living. And living can only be done if you care about yourself. To live you have to say: shit about that crap like being home at 5 or 6. I will go out in the world and see if something interesting is going to happen. Something might happen, something might not, but it is fair to say that the chances of anything happening at home alone (or with partner) in front of the tv is very very very slim.

They are all trapped by the TV and by the morals that are subsequently tought by the TV. Buy this, buy that, look like this, look like that, be as on tv if you want to be happy, don't miss the next show, bla bla.

going back to a previous point, society has been degrading since its birth. before socety no values changed because all of the values were created by society.

when society started (albeit, it was a gradual thing) people started noting how it seemed it was degrading.
not so, i think they were just comparing society to some perfect ideal, or image, and anything that does not conform to this view, is more justifacation for the degredation claim.

in reality, society is not/never was a perfect place and so this claim of constant degredation is defunct. why? because society changes, leaving a different code of conduct with every generation.

people might not compare society to a perfect ideal, but they definitly compare it to previous incarnations of thier/others society.

this means that in the constant state of flux, society seems to degrade, but in reality it is merely changing faster than you preconceptions/concpetions of what society should be.

it may be true that society is degrading, but it is incredibly slow, and probably not noticable in one lifetime, desreagarding revolutions and once a century incidents like that.

therefore, be cool... since this is a torrent noone will ever stop, nor is it something that needs to be stopped.
"peace"

yeah...but pirates are more morally degraded than goat humpers.

I beg your pardon Mr pirate monkey but I maintain that GOAT HUMPING is MORE MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE THAN YOUR SILLY PRIVATEERING. Remember I was a pirate once meself but it wasn't decadent enough so I took to humping barnyard animals and now am much more satisfied......but alas even the best looking goat is beginning to lose it's appeal to me :( maybe it's time to move on to greener (read filthier) pastures.


Relativeuniverse are you seriously making a snap judgement of my morals simply from viewing an avatar which I find amusing? Now ask yourself where the real problem lies ;)

Dear Spurious,

Ur site rox! I just checked it out. Very cool. Is everything I see made by you?

I beg your pardon Mr pirate monkey but I maintain that GOAT HUMPING is MORE MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE THAN YOUR SILLY PRIVATEERING. Remember I was a pirate once meself but it wasn't decadent enough so I took to humping barnyard animals and now am much more satisfied......but alas even the best looking goat is beginning to lose it's appeal to me :( maybe it's time to move on to greener (read filthier) pastures.


Relativeuniverse are you seriously making a snap judgement of my morals simply from viewing an avatar which I find amusing? Now ask yourself where the real problem lies ;)


i beg your pardon YOU GOAT HUMPING FREAK but reprehensible is not the same as degraded. pirates are more morally degraded than goat humping, but GOAT HUMPING IS MORE MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE THAN HIS SILLY PRIVATEERING....

like that colour i added there. isnt it clever.

i beg your pardon YOU GOAT HUMPING FREAK but reprehensible is not the same as degraded. pirates are more morally degraded than goat humping, but GOAT HUMPING IS MORE MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE THAN HIS SILLY PRIVATEERING....

like that colour i added there. isnt it clever.

Yes very clever use of color thought you was sneaky no?
We better stop relativeuniverse is going to have a heart attack.

as clever as the double posting :p

and...ha! I saw you did it before you deleted one of your posts :D

it isnt sneaky, i was being sarcastic (not the comment, thats obviosl sarcastic, the method was the sarcasm) that white thing is so old man...

and the double post was cause my browser decided to fuck it self up, and tooka ges, resulting in me clicking post many times.

it isnt sneaky, i was being sarcastic (not the comment, thats obviosl sarcastic, the method was the sarcasm) that white thing is so old man...

and the double post was cause my browser decided to fuck it self up, and tooka ges, resulting in me clicking post many times.

I was playing along ;)

good.
most people dont, it really sucks :( ;)

in response to spidergoat + spurious

well, my coping thought against that is that people simply decide where and when should they spend their attention and personal resources (for lack of a better term). I'm not really saying that people are spending their resources wrongfully, rather in ways that direct their efforts back to themselves in a way or help them spend only as much attention as they need to or none at all. In reference to what spider said, we're too busy trying to impress others. Might I add, the others don't want to be impressed, they want attention...well, ideally...nowadays everyone wants everyone to impress them...or something like that...and some others just want to be plain left alone... :confused:

can you say that again... you confusoided me :D :confused:

sorry, my previous response was addressing a point that spider and spurious had made earlier (one about the TV and one about impressing others)

the point being that some people as of late are displaying the tendency to gain attention from their peers by exhibiting a more dominant attitude that ranges from boasting to showing off or commanding the group of people involved, rather than legitimately taking care of others, as if it did not matter anymore to do so.

I'll finish this after class, back in 80 minutes :eek:

right ho, i got 'ya'.
hey, so your lessons are *) minutes in length?? thats rather long isnt it?

hmmk, no need to finish it then..well, classes are only twice a week so I'm happy about that, there's a lot of shit to learn in 80 minutes :)

confusoids own! :confused: :confused:

yeah...but pirates are more morally degraded than goat humpers.

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! :D

in response to spidergoat + spurious

well, my coping thought against that is that people simply decide where and when should they spend their attention and personal resources (for lack of a better term). I'm not really saying that people are spending their resources wrongfully, rather in ways that direct their efforts back to themselves in a way or help them spend only as much attention as they need to or none at all. In reference to what spider said, we're too busy trying to impress others. Might I add, the others don't want to be impressed, they want attention...well, ideally...nowadays everyone wants everyone to impress them...or something like that...and some others just want to be plain left alone... :confused:

Actually, my life improved when I decided to stop impressing people and just be myself (see dreamwalkers post).

But being yourself means that you will do things that other people find immoral.

Actually, my life improved when I decided to stop impressing people and just be myself (see dreamwalkers post).

But being yourself means that you will do things that other people find immoral.

... =P i second spuriousmonkey... accually i odn't think that society has degraded... It's just always been this currupt =P

One must always try and do the correct thing morally in any society. People want to do many things to others but because they don't want to go to jail or be hurt by another person they decide to keep to themselves what they would like to do. That is the way MOST people live. There are some that don't keep their morals in check and those are the ones that cause themselves as well as society many problems. That is anopther reason the jails have criminals in them.

jeez I wasn't trying to steer that way, although it might have seemed like so...I don't dream of a perfect society because society isn't perfect and it shouldn't be.

There is one thing to look at though: the functionality of social groups and society itself depends largely on the extent at which its members are able and willing to cooperate with one another. I'm sure we're still cooperating with one another in many ways but somewhere along the line the ratio between cooperation with others and one's own needs / survival began to get thinner...you guys don't have to take my word for this, but from my own experience I'm getting scared that too many people are growing into this limited form of interaction. Maybe I should go live in New York for a couple years so this doesn't bother me anymore. :confused:

in our country the breakdown of the family unit has made a huge contribution to the degredation you mention. marketing and advertising in the 50s saw that despite a booming economy the housing industry was dead. why? they researched and saw 3-4 generations living in single households. then came the marketing of the concept that the cream of the crop parents could turn out an 18 or so year old into the world ready to create his or her OWN kingdom.. a sign of a real go-getter, a feat that brought common blue collars shoulder to shoulder with the weathly elite.. even more so if those same parents managed to work and save for an early retirement about the time they turned out their extraordinary young adult(s) to enjoy the peace and contentment they earned in their spansive kingdom all their own. so now one household become one for grams and gramp, one for mr and mrs, one for jr and one for sis. just what the house builders and industry needed.
unfortunately now we have kids being raised in two career families by daycares, babysitters cable tv and the internet, far from ready to advance into the world on their own at the age of 18-20, but encouraged or insisted out the door, because we all know how it looks when a 25 year old is still living at home. unless you look at say.. chinese families.. or ok, most families on the rest of the planet. one home, multiple incomes and no one ever needs or lacks or worries // but most of us... well lets just say this is like many other examples of america selliing its vital organs for the profits of a few heartless fortune seekers and getters.