The actual question in life isn't "What is the meaning of life?" or "What is the purpose of life?".

The actual question is "Why don't you kill yourself? What is keeping you here to stay alive?"

made me think of camus:
[edit] Existentialism
The French existentialist philosopher Camus saw the goal of existentialism in establishing whether suicide was necessary in a world without God. For Camus, suicide was the rejection of freedom. He thought that fleeing from the absurdity of reality into illusions, religion or death was not the way out. Instead of fleeing the absurd meaninglessness of life, we should embrace life passionately. Fellow existentialist Sartre described the position of Meursault, the protagonist of Camus' L'Etranger, who is condemned to death in the following way: "The absurd man will not commit suicide; he wants to live, without relinquishing any of his certainty, without a future, without hope, without illusions ... and without resignation either. He stares at death with passionate attention and this fascination liberates him. He experiences the 'divine irresponsibility' of the condemned man".[3]
for me: I like life, despite the suffering, etc.

My genes won't let me

I am 'programmed' to survive.
Eh.. what Myles said..

Genes?

Well, the largest reason is fear of death. To say otherwise is silly. Suicide bombers are even scared and they think that their eternal soul depends upon it.
Christians have been known to refuse medical treatment and simply fade. Others have been burned at the stake and sang gleefully to the end.

I think as some people get older they realize that there is nothing to seperate life and death and then choosing to live is more difficult. IMO that is not the most healthy attitude and would instead believe that the same "painless existance" can be acheived in life if you can get your brain to kick out the right chemicals.

Genes?

Well, the largest reason is fear of death. To say otherwise is silly. Suicide bombers are even scared and they think that their eternal soul depends upon it.
Christians have been known to refuse medical treatment and simply fade. Others have been burned at the stake and sang gleefully to the end.

I think as some people get older they realize that there is nothing to seperate life and death and then choosing to live is more difficult. IMO that is not the most healthy attitude and would instead believe that the same "painless existance" can be acheived in life if you can get your brain to kick out the right chemicals.

Where do you think that fear comes from ? :)

Genes?

Genes?

Yep.. ;)

Discussion forums aren't as fun with one word replies

Discussion forums aren't as fun with one word replies

I thought you got it. What do you want to know ?

I have tried to commit suicide on a few occasions. It was very difficult to do. When I tried to hang myself the limb of the tree broke that I was suspended on. I tried to take a bunch of pills, vicodin, but I only went to sleep for about 30 hours. I am a failure at dying so I've given up trying.:(

As others have mentioned, the self preservation instinct is very strong. Animals with no fear of death would be very quickly selected out of the gene pool. As would ones that couldn't be bothered to eat when hungry, or that found sex unappealing, etc.

Man, what you guys can only intellectualize your answers and refer to theories.
Genes.
Self preservation instincts.
Is this how you experience yourselves?
Are you afraid your molecular biology professor is tracking all your communications?
As if genes were something other than you or another way of describing you.


How about desires to experience certain things?
love of certain individuals?
not wanting to hurt certain people?
not wanting to rule out this or that might happen or get better?
curiosity?
lust for knowledge?
Lust in general?


I swear to god the way people think they know themselves is such a joke. We'll all be walking around talking about ourselves in the 3rd person.

The genes would like a sandwich now.
My genes believe in determinism.
My sexual instincts seem to be focusing on you now, shall we go up to my apartment and mingle gametes?

Seriously, this makes me sick.

Self-abstraction is the opiate of the people.

Man, what you guys can only intellectualize your answers and refer to theories.
Genes.
Self preservation instincts.
Is this how you experience yourselves?
Are you afraid your molecular biology professor is tracking all your communications?
As if genes were something other than you or another way of describing you.


How about desires to experience certain things?
love of certain individuals?
not wanting to hurt certain people?
not wanting to rule out this or that might happen or get better?
curiosity?
lust for knowledge?
Lust in general?


I swear to god the way people think they know themselves is such a joke. We'll all be walking around talking about ourselves in the 3rd person.

The genes would like a sandwich now.
My genes believe in determinism.
My sexual instincts seem to be focusing on you now, shall we go up to my apartment and mingle gametes?

Seriously, this makes me sick.

Self-abstraction is the opiate of the people.

No offense but it's what you are.. how come it makes you sick ?

No offense but it's what you are.. how come it makes you sick ?

You still have free will , genes or no genes.

You still have free will , genes or no genes.

I don't think so. Depends on how it's defined I guess. Anyway.. I don't see how that is an answer.

An answer to what?
If genes determine everything , it removes the possibility of free will. Free will is not to say you're free to do as you like but rather that you have the ability to make a choice for yourself.

An answer to what?
If genes determine everything , it removes the possibility of free will. Free will is not to say you're free to do as you like but rather that you have the ability to make a choice for yourself.

Where do you get the idea that genes do not determine everything ?

The actual question is "Why don't you kill yourself? "

Too many ppl would miss me :D

Where do you get the idea that genes do not determine everything ?

My point is that it doesn't matter. I would like you to convince a judge that your genes made you commit a crime and that you had no choice in the matter.
You and your genes would go sit in a cell, padded or otherwise.

My point is that it doesn't matter. I would like you to convince a judge that your genes made you commit a crime and that you had no choice in the matter.
You and your genes would go sit in a cell, padded or otherwise.

I agree that it doesn't matter. If people are a danger to society they have to be taken out of it, no matter what the cause.

I will go a step further and suggest that people are able to change their minds/actions regardless of their genes as well.

I will go a step further and suggest that people are able to change their minds/actions regardless of their genes as well.

Of course. But it kinda depends on how you mean that. Without genes you can't change your mind because you wouldn't be there to change it.

There are varying opinions:

According to Jean-Paul Sartre death is non-threatening as long as we view it in the third person.

Friedrich Nietzsche admitted that with the end of Christianity comes nihilism, which is the "denial of the existence of any basis for knowledge or truth; the general rejection of customary beliefs in morality, religion, etc.; the belief that there is no meaning or purpose in existence."

Bertrand Russel, a famous atheistic philosopher, even admits that life is purposeless.

" That Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man's achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins--all these things, if not quite beyound dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand. Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair, can the soul's habitation henceforth be safely built."

Nietzsche saw death as the ultimate liberation. He even emphasises the desire he has to freely choose when he dies. Kaufmann affirms this when he says, "We should also give up the unseemly Christian teachings about suicide and accept it as a dignified and decent way of ending our lives."[10]

When Sartre, who agreed with Nietzsche, was asked why he didn't commit suicide, he replied by saying that he didn't want to use his freedom to take away his freedom. This is an absurd solution though, because they say that freedom is the problem with its aimlessness, pain, and despair.

Kaufmann argues that if we live life richly and not expect to live long lives then when we die we can combat the hopelessness of death because we won't feel cheated or won't feel as though we need more time.

Link (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/atheism.html)

Death in itself is not threatening, it's the way we die that is threatening. We are afraid of the pain.

Without ______you can't change your mind because you wouldn't be there to change it..

lol, now we are pondering the trivia that is life.

I could replace the word "genes" in your scentence with a thousand other words like.

Food, Water, Time, Space, Air, Gravity, parents, Life,

At some point it ceases to be a discussion at all.

lol, now we are pondering the trivia that is life.

I could replace the word "genes" in your scentence with a thousand other words like.

Food, Water, Time, Space, Air, Gravity, parents, Life,

At some point it ceases to be a discussion at all.

That also goes for your post, but (like I said) it depends on how you mean it.

I will go a step further and suggest that people are able to change their minds/actions regardless of their genes as well.

I don't kill myself because of my belief in reincarnation. If I kill myself it would be illogical for me to exist in the first place because I terminate my own existence, meanwhile in next life I will probably do the same thing that is kill myself, therefore I will go on killing myself in every life I live. So it is logical for me to do my best and get out of life what I can while being alive.

Man, what you guys can only intellectualize your answers and refer to theories.
Genes.
Self preservation instincts.
Is this how you experience yourselves?
Are you afraid your molecular biology professor is tracking all your communications?
As if genes were something other than you or another way of describing you.


How about desires to experience certain things?
love of certain individuals?
not wanting to hurt certain people?
not wanting to rule out this or that might happen or get better?
curiosity?
lust for knowledge?
Lust in general?


I swear to god the way people think they know themselves is such a joke. We'll all be walking around talking about ourselves in the 3rd person.

The genes would like a sandwich now.
My genes believe in determinism.
My sexual instincts seem to be focusing on you now, shall we go up to my apartment and mingle gametes?

Seriously, this makes me sick.

Self-abstraction is the opiate of the people.

As I have come to know you on here, you are never satisfied with a straight answer. You would much sooner sit around with Camus discussing abstract notions, in an attempt to dress the obvious in pseudo-philosophical clothing.

We are survival mechanisms, as are other animals. or we would be unlikely to be here talking about it. If I were to commit suicide today as opposed to yesterday, what has changed ? I would say my mood, outlook or whatever resulting from a change in my brain chemistry, A typical coroner's verdict is " suicide when the balance of his mind was disturbed" This confirms that suicide is not regard as rational behaviour; a failure of the normal genetic drive to survive. Has anyone ever said that each time genes replicate they always produce perfect copies?; rather its the reverse

That's it.

most people are to affraid to kill themselves!!

personaly IMO weak people commit suicide, people who can't face dealing with things in a proper manner!

As I have come to know you on here, you are never satisfied with a straight answer. You would much sooner sit around with Camus discussing abstract notions, in an attempt to dress the obvious in pseudo-philosophical clothing.

We are survival mechanisms, as are other animals. or we would be unlikely to be here talking about it. If I were to commit suicide today as opposed to yesterday, what has changed ? I would say my mood, outlook or whatever resulting from a change in my brain chemistry, A typical coroner's verdict is " suicide when the balance of his mind was disturbed" This confirms that suicide is not regard as rational behaviour.

That's it.

It may even act to get rid of unfit individuals from the population. In times of great stress, especially food shortage, the population will benefit from a few suicides.

The greatest weight.-- What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence - even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!"
Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus?... Or how well disposed would you have to become to yourself and to life to crave nothing more fervently than this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal?

from Nietzsche's The Gay Science, s.341, Walter Kaufmann transl.



An exercise in the affirmation of life. Nietzsche's basic point is - life has no purpose, so WE must make it have purpose. I prefer Albert Schweitzer for this topic:

True philosophy must start from the most immediate and comprehensive fact of consciousness: 'I am life that wants to live, in the midst of life that wants to live

I dont feel like it.

It may even act to get rid of unfit individuals from the population. In times of great stress, especially food shortage, the population will benefit from a few suicides.

especially those who suggest this.

especially those who suggest this.

I've read that somewhere. It makes sense.

An exercise in the affirmation of life. Nietzsche's basic point is - life has no purpose, so WE must make it have purpose. I prefer Albert Schweitzer for this topic:

Schweizer, as I understand it, is not claiming that life, per se, has a purpose.

I've read that somewhere. It makes sense.

oh it makes great sense to catch all the animals on Earth, deep fry them and store the food in a vacuum sealed packages for future generations to come...as well...

especially those who suggest this.

Those who are convinced they will reincarnate should be unselfish and die first. The rest of us have only one life.

Those who are convinced they will reincarnate should be unselfish and die first. The rest of us have only one life.

I just told you why death for me would be illogical.

oh it makes great sense to catch all the animals on Earth, deep fry them and store the food in a vacuum sealed packages for future generations to come...as well...

That doesn't make any sense at all.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

well than it doesn't make any sense for "in times of great shortages to do couple of suicides" either.

well than it doesn't make any sense for "in times of great shortages to do couple of suicides" either.

That does make sense, because then there would be less individuals to divide the food between.

I just told you why death for me would be illogical.

Because reincarntion is logical ? Of course it is.

That does make sense, because then there would be less individuals to divide the food between.

well barbecuing all animals on Earth makes sense as well, do it now, it will be food for future generations.

Schweizer, as I understand it, is not claiming that life, per se, has a purpose.

He is saying the purpose of life - is simply to live and to grow. "More life".

well barbecuing all animals on Earth makes sense as well, do it now, it will be food for future generations.

Especially when those animals reincarnate, bringing us a renewable food source

well barbecuing all animals on Earth makes sense as well, do it now, it will be food for future generations.

No.. once the food is gone everyone will die. It makes sense to keep prey populations intact.

No.. once the food is gone everyone will die. It makes sense to keep prey populations intact.

it will all die anyway.

it will all die anyway.

Nothing really matters.

Look Draqon, it's how nature works. If you don't believe me pick up a textbook.

Nothing really matters.

not true, everything does matter but in different perspective.

If you don't believe me pick up a textbook.

And Textbook is the ultimately God's creation? :rolleyes: It was written by humans like you and me who think their ideas are better than other ideas.

not true, everything does matter but in different perspective.

I disagree.

And Textbook is the ultimately God's creation? :rolleyes: It was written by humans like you and me who think their ideas are better than other ideas.

You believe in science and knowledge right ?

The actual question is "Why don't you kill yourself? What is keeping you here to stay alive?"

I am affraid of blood...

I am affraid of blood...

I find plastic bags over my head very effective. They never let me down

You believe in science and knowledge right ?

science and knowledge never remains the same. Theories collapse to form new ones. I believe in change.

science and knowledge never remains the same. Theories collapse to form new ones. I believe in change.

Sure, but often theories are build on each other. Science is the only sensible way to go.

I find plastic bags over my head very effective. They never let me down

LOL..........thats what I want somebody to do when I find myself drooling and wearing diapers. Or just smother me with a pillow. :p

Sure, but often theories are build on each other. Science is the only sensible way to go.

its its own religion. Science is based on a theory of assumptions as well.

LOL..........thats what I want somebody to do when I find myself drooling and wearing diapers. Or just smother me with a pillow. :p

I actually get free diapers with my free baby food I order online. :D

LOL..........thats what I want somebody to do when I find myself drooling and wearing diapers. Or just smother me with a pillow. :p

Chances are you won't 'find yourself' like that.. you'll be too far gone by then to notice.. lol

I actually get free diapers with my free baby food I order online. :D

Oh yeah and do they leak? :p

Chances are you won't 'find yourself' like that.. you'll be too far gone by then to notice.. lol

That is why I already told Nietzche the "plan" when that happens lol :D

Chances are you won't 'find yourself' like that.. you'll be too far gone by then to notice.. lol

actually at near death experiences I had and near suicidal tendencies of mine I had, I noticed that finding yourself is much more acute of an experience during those times.

As I have come to know you on here, you are never satisfied with a straight answer. You would much sooner sit around with Camus discussing abstract notions, in an attempt to dress the obvious in pseudo-philosophical clothing.
You mean like this here above. So you analyzed me, but could only come up with your genes control you in relation to yourself. In your world, it is enough to say

sowhatifit'sdark your genes made you answer that way. Right. My answer was caused by my genes. Why get in a dander and 'correct' me and my faulty genes and their pseudophilosophical answers, if you really believe your own 'philosophy'? Why bother with all this fluff now? Because you're pissed off? So you get a little irritated at my genes and suddenly you are able to write about human beings. Perhaps if you could find some emotion about life itself, something that makes you come here and spread the word and clean the unwashed masses, you could come up with a more interesting answer than that your genes keep you from killing yourself.

To say your genes made you do it - apart from the ludicrousness of the sentence (I mean who is the you that is not your genes) - is just trite.

His question: genes are everything.
My post: suddenly Myles wants to get down and talk like a person.

We are survival mechanisms, as are other animals. or we would be unlikely to be here talking about it. If I were to commit suicide today as opposed to yesterday, what has changed ? I would say my mood, outlook or whatever resulting from a change in my brain chemistry, A typical coroner's verdict is " suicide when the balance of his mind was disturbed" This confirms that suicide is not regard as rational behaviour; a failure of the normal genetic drive to survive. Has anyone ever said that each time genes replicate they always produce perfect copies?; rather its the reverse

That's it
That's it for you, I guess. If you think some wisdom is gained from answering my genes prevent me from committing suicide, we have different ideas of wisdom.

No offense but it's what you are.. how come it makes you sick ?

Hello. I did not say it makes me sick that I am genes. It makes me sick that you and others think you are saying anything of value to say your genes prevent your suicides. Apart from the fact that nurture has an effect on our attitudes, your answer is meaningless. I could see it in a discussion of suicidal behavior in a biology or psychiatry forum. But here?

But if you get some comfort out of having a detached view of yourself, that's fine. Go ahead.

Oh yeah and do they leak? :p

I dont use them, I was thinking thou of using them to filter water for drinking... joke detection on, unless you are paranoid

Sure, but often theories are build on each other. Science is the only sensible way to go.

Not if the ending thought is "Nothing matters". Science let you down if that's all you've gotten out of it.

Where do you get the idea that genes do not determine everything ?
From his genes, right?
I mean why talk to him about it. He is simply genes reacting, right?
OH, yeah, you can't help yourself. Your genes make you respond even though there is no point.
I hope your genes compel you to do good things.

actually at near death experiences I had and near suicidal tendencies of mine I had, I noticed that finding yourself is much more acute of an experience during those times.

Not if you're demented..

Hello. I did not say it makes me sick that I am genes. It makes me sick that you and others think you are saying anything of value to say your genes prevent your suicides. Apart from the fact that nurture has an effect on our attitudes, your answer is meaningless. I could see it in a discussion of suicidal behavior in a biology or psychiatry forum. But here?

But if you get some comfort out of having a detached view of yourself, that's fine. Go ahead.

The effects of nurture are there because our genetic make up allows for it.

Not if you're demented..

the psychology of a human at near death experiences activates hormones of greater sensor capabilities, faster reactions and such...this allows more blood flow and thus a person who is trying to kill themselves actually gets the body playing to them all the memories of good and how pitiful the life would be if they did do the suicide.

Either you never had suicide tendencies or you dont remember it.

Not if the ending thought is "Nothing matters". Science let you down if that's all you've gotten out of it.

How come ?

Man, what you guys can only intellectualize your answers and refer to theories.
Genes.
Self preservation instincts.
Is this how you experience yourselves?
Are you afraid your molecular biology professor is tracking all your communications?
As if genes were something other than you or another way of describing you.


How about desires to experience certain things?
love of certain individuals?
not wanting to hurt certain people?
not wanting to rule out this or that might happen or get better?
curiosity?
lust for knowledge?
Lust in general?


I swear to god the way people think they know themselves is such a joke. We'll all be walking around talking about ourselves in the 3rd person.

The genes would like a sandwich now.
My genes believe in determinism.
My sexual instincts seem to be focusing on you now, shall we go up to my apartment and mingle gametes?

Seriously, this makes me sick.

Self-abstraction is the opiate of the people.

It's not self abstraction. It's just that people know more nowadays about where their basic instincts and feelings originate. Why does this make you sick?

From his genes, right?
I mean why talk to him about it. He is simply genes reacting, right?
OH, yeah, you can't help yourself. Your genes make you respond even though there is no point.
I hope your genes compel you to do good things.

No, he is the product of his genes reacting.

Why have you become so cynical ?

the psychology of a human at near death experiences activates hormones of greater sensor capabilities, faster reactions and such...this allows more blood flow and thus a person who is trying to kill themselves actually gets the body playing to them all the memories of good and how pitiful the life would be if they did do the suicide.

Either you never had suicide tendencies or you dont remember it.

I never had them :)
Besides, Shorty wasn't talking about suicide. She was talking about that she wanted others to end her if she becomes demented.

I never had them :)

well than...don't say this is demented.

well than...don't say this is demented.

I didn't.. :confused:

I didn't.. :confused:

but you did say "Not if you are demented..."

but this I would assume you meant that one who realizes themselves more during suicide are seen as demented. This is wrong because such person is not demented.

most people are to affraid to kill themselves!!

personaly IMO weak people commit suicide, people who can't face dealing with things in a proper manner!

This pisses me off.

It might not be PC to say so, but we are not all as strong as each other. Sure, some people face things positively, with anger and determination, but others simply don't have it in them. And some people have just been through so much shit, it wears them down. You don't have the right to judge them.

LOL..........thats what I want somebody to do when I find myself drooling and wearing diapers. Or just smother me with a pillow.

Same here..only I'm not sure I want to live that long...

a violent death while I'm young and high on adrenaline seems a much more appealing idea..

The effects of nurture are there because our genetic make up allows for it.
But your answer was incomplete. Put the same genetic make up in radically worse nurtures and some will commit suicide. That's your worldview. So just speaking about genes IN YOUR WORLDVIEW is a half (assed) answer.

It's not self abstraction. It's just that people know more nowadays about where their basic instincts and feelings originate. Why does this make you sick?
Because my genes react that way. I can't help myself. How can you question me and my reactions. It is just my genes reacting?

No, he is the product of his genes reacting.

Why have you become so cynical ?
It's my genes. Just like Myle's genes prevent him from killing himself, my genes react negatively to people who refer to themselves like they were machines and in, bascially, the third person.

It's my genes, Enmos. Cynical? What's that. You know it is only my genes reacting. I am completely determined. I have to do what I do. You know this. Why do you label it with some humanistic word and speak to me like I am free?

the psychology of a human at near death experiences activates hormones of greater sensor capabilities, faster reactions and such...this allows more blood flow and thus a person who is trying to kill themselves actually gets the body playing to them all the memories of good and how pitiful the life would be if they did do the suicide.

Either you never had suicide tendencies or you dont remember it.

I would say this is not entirely biological. Small children of all faiths talk about 360 degree vision and veiwing their bodies from a different part of the room when brought near death in hospitals and the like. This along with many other symtoms reported by adults like the "review" often refered to as "your life flashing before your eyes". Many say it's as if you feel every experience you've had at once along with the feelings of everyone you were incontact with. It's been descibed as feeling like being burned alive,also.

but you did say "Not if you are demented..."

but this I would assume you meant that one who realizes themselves more during suicide are seen as demented. This is wrong because such person is not demented.

That was based on Shorty's post:
LOL..........thats what I want somebody to do when I find myself drooling and wearing diapers. Or just smother me with a pillow.

This along with many other symtoms reported by adults like the "review" often refered to as "your life flashing before your eyes".

I had my life flashing before my eyes, is more like it.

It's my genes. Just like Myle's genes prevent him from killing himself, my genes react negatively to people who refer to themselves like they were machines and in, bascially, the third person.

It's my genes, Enmos. Cynical? What's that. You know it is only my genes reacting. I am completely determined. I have to do what I do. You know this. Why do you label it with some humanistic word and speak to me like I am free?

It is determined that you feel like you do now, but there is nothing stopping you from shutting up.

Sorry.

I had my life flashing before my eyes, is more like it.

So did I last yr, when I almost got zapped with a lightning bolt. (I am being serious now)

It is determined that you feel like you do know, but there is nothing stopping you from shutting up.

Sorry.
What? Do you understand determinism so little? My genes are stopping me from shutting up, just as your genes get irritated when I point this out.

No, I'm sorry. My genes are making me behave badly. And your genes are letting it bother you.

I love how this simplifies all discourse.

I accept that you disagree with me, why can't you accept me disagreeing with you ?

What? Do you understand determinism so little? My genes are stopping me from shutting up, just as your genes get irritated when I point this out.

You are defining determinism as you see fit.

You are defining determinism as you see fit.

Let me see if I get this right then. My genes prevent me from committing suicide. My genes control my actions. But they do not control my urge to continue speaking. Is my urge to continue speaking free of genetic causation? And if it is this seems to open doors to other kinds of freedom.

I accept that you disagree with me, why can't you accept me disagreeing with you ?

My genes. (and by the way, it seems to me you are responding to me as much as I am responding to you. Why do think it is simply I who cannot accept? Can't you accept that I disagree?)

I am 'programmed' to survive.
Eh.. what Myles said..

ditto

Its because Crunchy Cat is here that I want to be alive, Crunchy Cat's presence does not allow me to commit suicide

I had my life flashing before my eyes, is more like it.

I guess I'm refering to an out of body experience in which ,in suicide terms ,you've already pulled the trigger and are going to die without some intervention.

I guess I'm refering to an out of body experience in which ,in suicide terms ,you've already pulled the trigger and are going to die without some intervention.

oh well...even a pulled trigger can still leave you alive.

My genes. (and by the way, it seems to me you are responding to me as much as I am responding to you. Why do think it is simply I who cannot accept? Can't you accept that I disagree?)

You are taking another attitude though, it shows you cannot accept it.

Anyway, I'm done bickering with you..

Let me see if I get this right then. My genes prevent me from committing suicide. My genes control my actions. But they do not control my urge to continue speaking. Is my urge to continue speaking free of genetic causation? And if it is this seems to open doors to other kinds of freedom.

You fail to see the point. I never said genes directly control behavior.

You are taking another attitude though, it shows you cannot accept it.

Anyway, I'm done bickering with you..

I am sure. It saves you having to explain this absurdity:
It is determined that you feel like you do now, but there is nothing stopping you from shutting up.

Suicide is an act that you and Myles say is one that your genes prevent you from performing.

My speaking is also an act, but you consider this free somehow?

Do tell.

I am sure. It saves you having to explain this absurdity:


Suicide is an act that you and Myles say is one that your genes prevent you from performing.

My speaking is also an act, but you consider this free somehow?

Do tell.

I don't know to what level. But I do know that every process in your body is eventually controlled by your genes.

You fail to see the point. I never said genes directly control behavior.
Oddly enough you think my genes control what I know. You think your genes prevent you from committing suicide.

Yet, you, a determinist, think that I am free to stop talking or not.

How odd.

Oddly enough you think my genes control what I know. You think your genes prevent you from committing suicide.

Yet, you, a determinist, think that I am free to stop talking or not.

How odd.

I don't say your genes control what you know.

I don't know if you are free to stop talking or not. But probably the tendency to continue speaking is genetically based.

I don't know to what level. But I do know that every process in your body is eventually controlled by your genes.

OK. Thank you. Well, just so you know

my speaking is a process in my body. It is a physical process.

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to argue with someone who does not understand the implications of their own philosophy? You are defending something you understand less well than me.

Now I am done bickering. I'll take what I quoted above as an admission even if you can't see it.

???? the act of preserving ones self is built into our genes

lol I do understand the implications but I am not all-knowing.
I think what mostly bothers you is that it doesn't bother me.

???? the act of preserving ones self is built into our genes

It is.. Sowhat is trying to compare it with speaking..

Man, what you guys can only intellectualize your answers and refer to theories.
Genes.
Self preservation instincts.
Is this how you experience yourselves?
Are you afraid your molecular biology professor is tracking all your communications?
As if genes were something other than you or another way of describing you.


How about desires to experience certain things?
love of certain individuals?
not wanting to hurt certain people?
not wanting to rule out this or that might happen or get better?
curiosity?
lust for knowledge?
Lust in general?


I swear to god the way people think they know themselves is such a joke. We'll all be walking around talking about ourselves in the 3rd person.

The genes would like a sandwich now.
My genes believe in determinism.
My sexual instincts seem to be focusing on you now, shall we go up to my apartment and mingle gametes?

Seriously, this makes me sick.

Self-abstraction is the opiate of the people.

I didn't say any of those things, because those aren't what is keeping me around. At 42, I can safely say that I wouldn't have missed much if I had offed myself as a teenager. A few people would miss me, but not many.

I don't enjoy life very much, but after contemplating it many times, I long ago realized I wouldn't ever actually do it (commit suicide). And I ultimately ascribe that to the fear that comes from trying to overcome your instinct for self preservation.

Why do you think orgasms are so enjoyable? To me, the pleasure is an obvious reward for doing an activity that usually (eventually at least) leads to reproduction. Successful behavior is rewarded, the unsuccessful leads to the exit sign.

You probably won't see the humor in this. But I do.

Doctors Find New Way To Prolong Meaningless Existence

ITHACA, NY–In a stunning medical breakthrough, a team of Cornell University biogeneticists announced Tuesday that it has developed a revolutionary new synthetic hormone that retards the human aging process, enabling individuals to extend the churning, meaningless void known as life by upwards of 20 years.

"This remarkable new hormone will enable millions of people to live longer, healthier lives," said Dr. Marlene Peretz-Worthington, head of the Cornell team. "Once the substance wins FDA approval and is made available to the general public, the hellish emptiness of our spiritually blank lives should be that much more inescapable."

According to Peretz-Worthington, between 1990 and 1998, 250 test subjects between the ages of 68 and 81 were injected bi-weekly with Noexitoxythalynucleothylinase, an experimental DNA-modifying hormone that "freezes" the genetic codes that regulate aging. In all 250 subjects, the drug slowed down the aging process by at least 30 percent, adding years to their futile, purposeless existences.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28913

LOL..........thats what I want somebody to do when I find myself drooling and wearing diapers. Or just smother me with a pillow. :p

It only works every time if you reincarnate as I do

did anyone notice what they called it:

Noexitoxythalynucleothylinase

So did I last yr, when I almost got zapped with a lightning bolt. (I am being serious now)

That will teach you to annoy Zeus

did anyone notice what they called it:

lol Fitting ;)

Because my genes react that way. I can't help myself. How can you question me and my reactions. It is just my genes reacting?

but you don't believe in that viewpoint...

the psychology of a human at near death experiences activates hormones of greater sensor capabilities, faster reactions and such...this allows more blood flow and thus a person who is trying to kill themselves actually gets the body playing to them all the memories of good and how pitiful the life would be if they did do the suicide.



what hormones are those exactly? are you talking about fight or flight chemicals?

OK. Thank you. Well, just so you know

my speaking is a process in my body. It is a physical process.

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to argue with someone who does not understand the implications of their own philosophy? You are defending something you understand less well than me.

Now I am done bickering. I'll take what I quoted above as an admission even if you can't see it.

And physical process are mediated by what, exactly ?

Oddly enough you think my genes control what I know. You think your genes prevent you from committing suicide.

Yet, you, a determinist, think that I am free to stop talking or not.

How odd.

Your genes determine how you react to your environment. Is that so difficult to understand ?

You mean like this here above. So you analyzed me, but could only come up with your genes control you in relation to yourself. In your world, it is enough to say

sowhatifit'sdark your genes made you answer that way. Right. My answer was caused by my genes. Why get in a dander and 'correct' me and my faulty genes and their pseudophilosophical answers, if you really believe your own 'philosophy'? Why bother with all this fluff now? Because you're pissed off? So you get a little irritated at my genes and suddenly you are able to write about human beings. Perhaps if you could find some emotion about life itself, something that makes you come here and spread the word and clean the unwashed masses, you could come up with a more interesting answer than that your genes keep you from killing yourself.

To say your genes made you do it - apart from the ludicrousness of the sentence (I mean who is the you that is not your genes) - is just trite.

His question: genes are everything.
My post: suddenly Myles wants to get down and talk like a person.


That's it for you, I guess. If you think some wisdom is gained from answering my genes prevent me from committing suicide, we have different ideas of wisdom.

How can one avoid talking like a person if one is a person. You'll be telling me next that cows choose to moo. You just don't het it. No doubt you have a special definition of a person.

Myles, I feel I have to tell you that Sowhat has you on ignore.

How do you know?

sowhatifit'sdark.

If things said on here make you sick , may I suggest a solution ? Put down Camus and pick up Sartre's La Nausee. That should do the trick. You keep making one fatal mistake. You assume because we talk of genes in the way we do, that we are peasants who have not read Sartre, Camus and that we know nothing of Existentialism. The thought that we may have left such vacuous speculation behind us does not occur to you.

Myles, I feel I have to tell you that Sowhat has you on ignore.

Well, that's a surefire way of not losing an argument. I remember a kid who ran home whining with hs ball because we didn't let him score a goal.

How do you know?

He said it in another thread a while back.

Well, that's a surefire way of not losing an argument. I remember a kid who ran home whining with hs ball because we didn't let him score a goal.

lol
Yea, I don't understand why he is so pissed off all of a sudden..

I accept that you disagree with me, why can't you accept me disagreeing with you ?

Because his genes won't let him!!!!11!!!!1! :bugeye:

Because his genes won't let him!!!!11!!!!1! :bugeye:

Maybe.. but there is still something called restraint.

Maybe.. but there is still something called restraint.

No, there is only genes!!!!!!11!11111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!11!11111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what's with the excalamation marks? :bugeye:

He said it in another thread a while back.

Maybe his genes changed his mind

:bugeye:

You guys are deliberately misinterpreting what I say.

http://images.honewatson.com/baby-phat-fashions/images/06-10/vintage-pocket-blast-signiture-baby-phat-jeans.jpg

Maybe his genes changed his mind

Maybe.. lol
I wouldn't be surprised if he has me on ignore now too..

Hey I'm on a persons ignore now....

what's with the excalamation marks?

I am expressing that I am annoyed.

Hey I'm on a persons ignore now....

posting irrelevant pictures, begs a question of why are you trolling

I am expressing that I am annoyed.

I see, but couldn't you do that in a more courteous way?

Hey I'm on a persons ignore now....

Fine by me,. We are all nonentities on here.

posting irrelevant pictures, begs a question of why are you trolling

Nothing irrelevant that I can see. He is making the point that most people talk through their asses.

Nothing irrelevant that I can see. He is making the point that most people talk through their asses.

I see. Thank you for opening my eyes to see this "assy" perspective point of view.

I see, but couldn't you do that in a more courteous way?

My genes wouldn't let me!!!!1!!!!!11!!!!%"%$%(/(/&"$/?*!

Blaming it all on the genes is absurd. Had we been born two hundred or so years earlier, we would have known nothing about genes making us do stuff. While the question "Why don't you kill yourself?" would still be there, just as pertinent.

greenberg a more courteous way would be:

Dear everyone,

please refer to my post no #XXXXXX for understanding on my assumption and its relevance to the issue discussed at hand.

Meanwhile post #XXXXXX will state your hypothesis and your conclusion on why your hypothesis is correct on a subject of genes influencing your decisions.

My genes wouldn't let me!!!!1!!!!!11!!!!%"%$%(/(/&"$/?*!

Blaming it all on the genes is absurd. Had we been born two hundred or so years earlier, we would have known nothing about genes making us do stuff. While the question "Why don't you kill yourself?" would still be there, just as pertinent.

That is a non argument. We understand how genes work to a large extend, not so 200 years ago.

posting irrelevant pictures, begs a question of why are you trolling

Nothing is irrelevant. :D

Nothing is irrelevant. :D

indeed, it was relevant for me to post some sort of statement to express my despleasement on this issue.

The actual question is "Why don't you kill yourself?

Because it's pointless.

My genes wouldn't let me!!!!1!!!!!11!!!!%"%$%(/(/&"$/?*!

Blaming it all on the genes is absurd. Had we been born two hundred or so years earlier, we would have known nothing about genes making us do stuff. While the question "Why don't you kill yourself?" would still be there, just as pertinent.

Yes, but the answers would have been wrong ! Genes and environment, that's it

Had we been born 500 years ago the earth would have been flat. Now we know it is an oblate spheroid.

We need test subjects who do decide to kill themselves and than record the data of their experiences.

We need test subjects who do decide to kill themselves and than record the data of their experiences.

I'll go first!............................................

We need test subjects who do decide to kill themselves and than record the data of their experiences.

How do we record their experiences ?

joke on test, failed.

I'll go first!............................................

You stay in line dude !

I got the plastic bags ready ;)

joke on test, failed.

Suicide is no joke; it's a laughing matter

Suicide is no joke; it's a laughing matter

suicide is not matter, its a spiritual psychological assesment

I got the plastic bags ready ;)

I have the string. Just take a seat and I'll be with you in a minute to remove your ...

if I was a moderator I would close this thread.

if I was a moderator I would close this thread.

Yeah.......before something happens. It's always funny till someone loses an eye....

tight bra. It wouldn't do to restrict your breathing when I'm suffocating you because...

tight bra. It wouldn't do to restrict your breathing when I'm suffocating you because...

you are in the wrong thread and this isn't finish my sentence :p

You said you had plastic bags and I was offering to do the rest. I like helping others

You said you had plastic bags and I was offering to do the rest. I like helping others

help yourself first.

Don't be silly. If I do that how can I help others ?

Don't be silly. If I do that how can I help others ?

that will be help itself.

I'll make you a priority case

STOP fighting I have enough bags for everyone...:D

If you think you can fob me off with Wallmart rubbish, ypu've another think coming.

I have a special consignment from Tiffany's

lol I do understand the implications but I am not all-knowing.
I think what mostly bothers you is that it doesn't bother me.
No. What bothers me is you do not notice the contradictions in what you do and believe and what you believe and believe. Further that even if determinism is correct to answer the way you did is AS IF you were outside yourself. But you are not.

but you don't believe in that viewpoint...
You really couldn't see what I was pointing out?
Their beliefs and their reactions to me contradict each other. If they really believed what they claim to believe they would not bother reacting to me the way they did.

And physical process are mediated by what, exactly ?

I was pointing out the absurdity of Enmos' determinism as revealed in this quote:

It is determined that you feel like you do now, but there is nothing stopping you from shutting up.
After both of you talked about how your genes prevented your suicides AND he is now talking about how 'what I know' is determined' he somehow thought I was free to 'stop talking' as if this act was not guided by genes, and environment and totally determined.

And before you say he was being ironic, when I pointed this out he said

You are defining determinism as you see fit.

Well, gosh. No.

But if anything bothers you about any of this, Myles, my genes made me do it and they are preventing me from being swayed by your arguments.

Maybe.. but there is still something called restraint.

So then I could restrain from eating and not survive, overriding my genes.

Why is my act of speaking restrainable and yet my acts of maintaining my life are not?

Your genes determine how you react to your environment. Is that so difficult to understand ?
Is it so difficult to understand 1) Enmos' weak understanding of determinism - see his ideas about 'restraint'. 2) the silliness on your part of arguing with my genes.

How can one avoid talking like a person if one is a person. You'll be telling me next that cows choose to moo. You just don't het it. No doubt you have a special definition of a person.

No, I don't het it.
Do you take every phrase absolutely literally, Myles?
Do you understand what the phrase 'talking like a person' means?
When you say I don't get it, is it some kind of parcel? is it a paycheck?
Ah, I see, you meant that colloquially.
How amazing that I understood that.

Yes, but the answers would have been wrong

Ah, so if I say that I do not commit suicide because I love life and my family and friends
or because I am so curious about what the day might bring

I would be wrong.
I am beginning to feel pity.

No. What bothers me is you do not notice the contradictions in what you do and believe and what you believe and believe. Further that even if determinism is correct to answer the way you did is AS IF you were outside yourself. But you are not.

I do notice what you seem to think of as contradictions.. and just disagree.

So then I could restrain from eating and not survive, overriding my genes.

Why is my act of speaking restrainable and yet my acts of maintaining my life are not?

I would think the urge to survive is somewhat stronger than the urge to talk, don't you ?

What do you think makes a fox chew it's own leg off when it's trapped in a snare ?
Is it because of survival instinct ?
Or because it I loves life and it's family and friends or because it is so curious about what the day might bring ?

You pick..

I would think the urge to survive is somewhat stronger than the urge to talk, don't you ?

What do you think makes a fox chew it's own leg off when it's trapped in a snare ?
Is it because of survival instinct ?
Or because it I loves life and it's family and friends or because it is so curious about what the day might bring ?

You pick..

Do you think that higher consciousness negates the primal urge to survive? I think that rubbing my dick is one. Youre an asshole by the way. Just thought you might like to know.

I would think the urge to survive is somewhat stronger than the urge to talk, don't you ?

What do you think makes a fox chew it's own leg off when it's trapped in a snare ?
Is it because of survival instinct ?
Or because it I loves life and it's family and friends or because it is so curious about what the day might bring ?

You pick..
So I have free will in relation to some urges?
And the choices I make about what urges to suppress are not governed by my genes? For example, the fox overriding his usual urge not to cause himself pain, that act would be governed by his genes in your worldview yes?
So my urge to talk and my lack of an urge to restrain it are both genetic, yes?


Do you really not see how what you said does not fit with determinism or are you just being stubborn?

I mean let's go back to where this line started. You told me that what I think I know is governed by my genes, but I could restrain myself from talking about it.

Anyone would assume that you are saying I can't control the former, which is genetic, but I can control the latter, which is not. But the fact is my desire to restrain myself would be genetic also, in your worldview. The whole damn thing is genetic, right.

Do you think that higher consciousness negates the primal urge to survive? I think that rubbing my dick is one. Youre an asshole by the way. Just thought you might like to know.

Now I'm the asshole ?
I take it you haven't read this thread ?
All I did was say that our genes provide us with survival instinct. Not much later Sowhat came in here guns blazing, and with his attitude.

Besides I'm not the one calling people names here, you are.

I do notice what you seem to think of as contradictions.. and just disagree.
No, you don't. You do not get how 'restraint' and the choice to use it would also be controlled by genes. For example.

Not much later Sowhat came in here guns blazing, and with his attitude.


An attitude that would be created by my genes. Right?
Just like your attitude, sense that you are right and your reactions to me are caused by your genes.

So I have free will in relation to some urges?
And the choices I make about what urges to suppress are not governed by my genes? For example, the fox overriding his usual urge not to cause himself pain, that act would be governed by his genes in your worldview yes?
Yes I do. What do you think causes it ?
I want to discuss this in a civil way, or not at all.

So my urge to talk and my lack of an urge to restrain it are both genetic, yes?
At some level, yes I think so.

Do you really not see how what you said does not fit with determinism or are you just being stubborn?
You were the one calling my view deterministic. I adopted it.
Is determinism really that black and white ?

I mean let's go back to where this line started. You told me that what I think I know is governed by my genes, but I could restrain myself from talking about it.
I don't remember telling you that what you think you know is governed by your genes. Can you point out to me where I said that ?

Anyone would assume that you are saying I can't control the former, which is genetic, but I can control the latter, which is not. But the fact is my desire to restrain myself would be genetic also, in your worldview. The whole damn thing is genetic, right.
At some level yes.

No, you don't. You do not get how 'restraint' and the choice to use it would also be controlled by genes. For example.

No, I don't know how exactly it works.

An attitude that would be created by my genes. Right?
Just like your attitude, sense that you are right and your reactions to me are caused by your genes.

Genes do not directly make you do this and that.

Yes I do. What do you think causes it ?
Then the distinction you made between my genes making me think I know certain things and my ability to restrain myself was not correct. Both would be controlled by genes.



At some level, yes I think so.
There you go.
Both determined. Both genetic.


You were the one calling my view deterministic. I adopted it.
Is determinism really that black and white ?
If yours isn't feel free to point out where you think you are not determined and how. What I will do is start another thread and invite Myles over to it and you and he can fight it out. Cause he sure as shit isn't going to tolerate ideas of randomness or semi-free will.


I don't remember telling you that what you think you know is governed by your genes. Can you point out to me where I said that ?

you're right. You said it was determining how I feel.
It is determined that you feel like you do now, but there is nothing stopping you from shutting up.
But you have the same problem here in relation to determinism. My genes are controlling how I feel right now but nothing is stopping me from shutting up. Well, 1) that seems to miss the point about how much feelings control what you do. I don't want to stop talking, which, in your view, would be controlled by my genes.

That is where I don't think you understand determinism.


At some level yes.
Right. So saying nothing is stopping you from shutting up is a strange thing to say. You were implying that some of my acts are controlled by genes and others are not.

If you want to put forward a case for semi free will, please do. I would love to see you and Myles have a taste of arguing with each other. Maybe then you would understand my 'attitude.'

Genes do not directly make you do this and that.
Oh, gosh I know this, Enmos.

I think Enmos is working on his post count.Eh?

Fine I'll shut up.

No, no...you're on a roll.

I want to discuss this in a civil way, or not at all.

It is determined that you feel like you do now, but there is nothing stopping you from shutting up.

My emphasis.

I said I wanted to discuss this in a civil, if Sowhat is going to be an asshole all the time he can forget it.

No, no...you're on a roll.
If he wants to restrain his genetic predispositions you should let him.

My emphasis.

lol you've got to be kidding me.

I'm out.

I said I wanted to discuss this in a civil, if Sowhat is going to be an asshole all the time he can forget it.

1) you basically told me to shut up.
2) now you have called me an asshole.
3) and both of us, according to you, are simply living out the dictates of our genes. I don't know why your beliefs have so little effect on how you experience other people.

lol you've got to be kidding me.

I'm out.

So how did you mean that, when you said nothing was preventing me from shutting up. And how did you mean 'asshole'.

17 hours
10 pages
192 posts

90% of it about genes. Greenburg done killed himself hours ago!

194.
I am optimistic about Greenberg.
I also PMed him to apolagize for my part in derailing the thread. He responded in good humor. He was alive then.
But your well aimed and succinct irony - obviously including in its target me - was spot on.

17 hours
10 pages
192 posts

90% of it about genes. Greenburg done killed himself hours ago!

This is one of my fastest threads! Yay!

http://www.unreal.ie/images/yay.jpg



Anyway, it's telling the way it turned, there being such an emphasis to talk about genes.
The OP question is a tough one, it's the sort of thing that wakes you up at 2 AM and doesn't let you go back to sleep.
Humans are prone to escapism.
Blaming the whole survival issue on the "genes" is a swift and relatively clean way to escape thinking about troubling things. The genes are "yours" after all, so it's not like you are obviously in denial.

194.
But your well aimed and succinct irony - obviously including in its target me - was spot on.

It was your g... ....

Well, I didn't have my hopes to high when I posted this thread. It's a delicate subject after all. Escapism, denial, superficiality and conisderations of legal consequences are to be expected.

genes have nothing to do with the fear of death and i have no selfpreservation instinct. genes mostly just determine physical things like appearance.

our environment (friends, family) is one reason why we don't kill ourself, but the biggest reason is that people like to live. most people also seem unsure what happens after death. you know this already.

I was pointing out the absurdity of Enmos' determinism as revealed in this quote:


After both of you talked about how your genes prevented your suicides AND he is now talking about how 'what I know' is determined' he somehow thought I was free to 'stop talking' as if this act was not guided by genes, and environment and totally determined.

And before you say he was being ironic, when I pointed this out he said



Well, gosh. No.

But if anything bothers you about any of this, Myles, my genes made me do it and they are preventing me from being swayed by your arguments.


I agree with your last statement except I would argue that your genes and your environment have made you what you are. You had no control over either.

Why should I be bothered ?

Why should I be bothered ?
Because you have no control of it either since your genes have set you up to react in ways that were probably better suited to the veldt. But it's good to know that this is really the root of it, so I don't take your analysis of my 'pseudo philosophical' interests seriously.

Note: I was the one that pointed out you and Enmos were leaving nurture out of your answers. But thanks for the echo in your correction.

did anyone notice what they called it:

I never noticed that before!

Because you have no control of it either since your genes have set you up to react in ways that were probably better suited to the veldt. But it's good to know that this is really the root of it, so I don't take your analysis of my 'pseudo philosophical' interests seriously.

Note: I was the one that pointed out you and Enmos were leaving nurture out of your answers. But thanks for the echo in your correction.

You still haven't told me why I should be bothered ?I accept things the way I see them and the fact that I claim my response to you is determined show nothing more than that. How else would I would I respond if I were free ?

Of course you don't have to take my analysis seriously; I'd be surprised if you did, Don't you understand yet ? I have nothing to sell, no conversion to offer; it's simply that I enjoy a debate and, in this case. I believe you are wrong. I can live with that.

From my perspective, you need to believe that you are more significant than you are, hence your rejection that you are a parcel of genes programmed to survive and reproduce. You want there to be something deeper.

You mentioned nurture first , you say. You did. I felt it unnecessary to mention it because it should be obvious to anyone discussing what we are that genes do not express themselves in a vacuum. I take that as a given.

The bottom line is that you did not choose your genes or your background . You found yourself in an environment to which you are reacting and resulting from which ,patterns of behaviour emerge. The point is that, as I said to you on a previous occasion, I believe free wil is an illusion and I do not find accepting that is a burden. I have just returned from a trout-fishing trip which I throughly enjoyed. Determined or not, I had a good outing .

From my perspective, you need to believe that you are more significant than you are, hence your rejection that you are a parcel of genes programmed to survive and reproduce. You want there to be something deeper. It seems you believe your genes have given you the ability to mind read or, in any case, the tendency to think that you can.

You mentioned nurture first , you say. You did. I felt it unnecessary to mention it because it should be obvious to anyone discussing what we are that genes do not express themselves in a vacuum. I take that as a given.
But you felt compelled to correct me when I left it out - after my already having mentioned, I add again.

You still haven't told me why I should be bothered ? Obviously I was not taking 'should' in the moral sense. Just as you think you know the psychological roots of my beliefs, I get a sense of when you are bothered and the indirect ways you express your being bothered.

So there we are: a couple of mind readers.

But we have strayed far afield from the OP and I get the feeling the thread is dead. In any case, I am done with it.

May our genes and environments bring us pleasant experiences.

I think I will sign my letters off like that from now on.

Lifes to funny to leave it now! :D :eek::rolleyes:

It seems you believe your genes have given you the ability to mind read or, in any case, the tendency to think that you can.


But you felt compelled to correct me when I left it out - after my already having mentioned, I add again.

Obviously I was not taking 'should' in the moral sense. Just as you think you know the psychological roots of my beliefs, I get a sense of when you are bothered and the indirect ways you express your being bothered.

So there we are: a couple of mind readers.

But we have strayed far afield from the OP and I get the feeling the thread is dead. In any case, I am done with it.

May our genes and environments bring us pleasant experiences.

I think I will sign my letters off like that from now on.

Change your avatar to Alber Camus II !

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not bothered in any sense. You are simply projecting your thoughts onto me rather than reading mine. In the event we ever talk again, I shall spoonfeed you to avoid misunderstandings. For example , in the present instance I should have saids:

Our genes are responsible for our behaviour. But we do not live in a vacuum. No, we live in a society and our actions talk place within this society and it's associated environment. Our interactions with others mediate our behaviour. But we must not simply think of humans. We may interact with dogs, goldfish and so on. We even interact with the weather.

So while we may wish for pleasant esperiences within our environment, it must be pointed out that we cannot have experiences outside of our environment, so environment can be safely omitted and it will suffice to talk of pleasant experiences.

Do you think that higher consciousness negates the primal urge to survive? I think that rubbing my dick is one. Youre an asshole by the way. Just thought you might like to know.

You obviously think with your dick and talk through your arse.